Giannis Thread - 2 Time MVP - The Contract discussions

[greekbuck34]

The man was a career 74-75% FT shooter until a little over a year ago. It's by far the most baffling development/regression in his game. That's it, that's the easiest and most important fix. If he somehow doesn't correct it, it's going to severely limit this team's ceiling given how reliant the offense is on him living in the paint and at the foul line. It doesn't matter what shooters/play-makers you surround him with, and it doesn't matter what "scheme" you run if he's gonna continue to be a 58-62% guy from the line.

10-15% in one mans FTs is a detail. Important detail and more easily fixed but a detail.
10% in a whole team's 3p% is a championship. Not just the extra points from all the extra 3s, but the better spacing for Giannis and the rest, better rythme and the better transition defense(way less bricked 3s).

Giannis improving his FTs and his shooting is based in HOPE. He is working on it and hopefully he will get there.
You can't expect to win championships by hoping and believing a problem will fix itself.

We couldn't hope anymore that Bledsoe will have a good playoff series anymore.
We fixed it.

We can't hope that DDV, Pat C, other good players but mediocre career shooters and also b level players and unknown rookies will shoot over 38% from 3 in a playoff series.
We still hope that they will do.

It's a huge mistake imo but there is nothing we can do about it since we gave up everything just to fix Bledsoe.
Let's hope we are lucky this season and Giannis, DDV and whoever else has some playoff minutes to hit their open 3s.

[BucksRule18]

look... i hear you but he was also the biggest name to move teams the entire offseason. im sure thats come up in the discussions with giannis. we got the best available guy is a pretty good start to a convo trying to get him to sign.

and to me.... jrue/ddv vs bledsoe/bogdanovich i know which route im taking.

what sucks is bledsoes performance anxiety combined with giannis version of the same disease. hell maybe middleton even has it. jrue you get the sense isnt going to be that type. we needed the old guy with the good defense just steady..... maybe the lockerroom leadership instead of whatever the **** is going on in that lockerroom preplayoff game the last two years. its like they were taking dope to get the shakes or something. i think jrue just won an award or something for that stuff.

sure we want the allnba guy but for what was attainable with a bunch of 20 something picks over the next 5 years i think we did ok

also im not worried about his health or age. lowry, paul, dragic, rondo..... all these mfers seem like they are just the same playoffs killers and christ maybe even better on that stage the older they get. i pray we got a guy like that. if he bonks year one then we can have this discussion

You're probably right about Lowry, Paul, Dragic, etc, assuming Jrue is healthy for several seasons. And I love Jrue. You know I always value two-way players with great intangibles more than the guys with impressive stats. It's all-your-eggs-in-one-basket that makes me nervous. Jrue helps with a lot of issues, but this is not like Derozan for Kawhi, which almost single-handedly solved all of that team's issues.

And I guess I'm just kind of in shock at how much they gave up. Like if I was a fan of some random third team and had no horse in the race, I would say "Bledsoe, Hill, and #24 seems pretty reasonable for Jrue considering he's 30 and probably on the last year of his deal, but I'm guessing the Bucks will have to throw in a protected pick or something." But I think Bucks fans are devaluing Bledsoe and Hill because of the emotional baggage of how they played in the bubble. Bledsoe is about the same age as Jrue and will soon be making about half as much. He's being devalued because playing with Giannis magnified his biggest weakness.

Bledsoe and Giannis have a history of getting the yips in the playoffs. I never believe the yips are a permanent part of a player's constitution, but some guys are more likely to get them on occasion. I think Bledsoe has a great chance to redeem himself in the right situation. I think Giannis's form on his shot and free throws are going to make it hard for him to have more confidence in that department. I don't think Khris has performance anxiety at all. He just doesn't have the physical tools to take the bull by the horns, so he lives and dies by that wet jumper and can look kind of foolish when he tries to take over games any other way.

Giannis and Jrue just need to extend as soon as possible so I can sleep at night.

Horst probably got spooked because Ainge let it slip that he's willing to give up everything including the kitchen sink to get Holiday. The problem is that other GM's always pull these stunts to get other teams to overpay, especially Ainge. I'm sure someone let it slip that they're going hard after Snell a few years back, and had a big laugh after the Bucks game him that massive contract on the first day of free agency.

[ABucksFan]

We are not that far away from a championship. A couple of different bounces in that TOR series and we're in the finals, we were that close. Last year, bubble was a mess. Now is that an excuse? Of course not, but we are quite close even with all the "deficiencies". Giannis needs plenty of things from a shooting standpoint, but in all honestly he just needs to work on his FT's and we'd be fine. I don't think he needs a jumpshot for us to win.

Now what I do want to see is....some god damn adjustments from the coaching staff. Yeah we get it Bud, your system is a Reg season juggernaut...but you need to evolve. More PNR with Giannis FFS, I can't remember last time he got a lob or was used as a rim runner, no one is stopping that. Be more creative with your god damn offensive schemes, USE the REGUALR season to experiment. I'm willing to lose 5-6 more games if that means we have more diversity in our schemes for the playoffs.

I've called for some similar adjustments before as well and I agree with most of your post, but to be fair there's not much a coach can do if players don't have the composure and mental toughness to handle the playoffs. In the bubble, they didn't even have much motivation for some reason, so it was predictably a disaster, but I think the ECF is a better indication of where the team stood relative to other contenders in the league - not as good in the playoffs as the regular season, but still roughly on the same level as the other contenders. And they would be the odds-on favorite if you could count on Bledsoe and Giannis to be poised in the playoffs.

Yeah, I most definitely agree that our players just didn't have the mental to win. In all honesty when I look at this roster lol, the only guy who really has the mental is Giannis. You really do need 2-3 guys, 1 being the superstar and the others wouldn't have to be, that have the mental to get out there and make it happen. Unpopular, but this is why I would've been okay with CP3, true alpha who can lift guys or shield them in big moments. You can argue CP3 hasn't done that, but he was one of the guys who could make it possible. Right now we have Giannis and maybe Jrue, it might be enough...

[coolhandluke121]

Yeah, I most definitely agree that our players just didn't have the mental to win. In all honesty when I look at this roster lol, the only guy who really has the mental is Giannis. You really do need 2-3 guys, 1 being the superstar and the others wouldn't have to be, that have the mental to get out there and make it happen. Unpopular, but this is why I would've been okay with CP3, true alpha who can lift guys or shield them in big moments. You can argue CP3 hasn't done that, but he was one of the guys who could make it possible. Right now we have Giannis and maybe Jrue, it might be enough...

I was against CP3 but I certainly would have preferred to pay his cost in trade value than Jrue's. I agree that Giannis has the competitiveness, but his issues at the line that started against Toronto have me concerned about his poise in those situations. Brook has quietly been quite good both seasons in the playoffs, although his success against Miami was largely predicated on unsustainable hot shooting. At least he's the same player in the playoffs as he is in the regular season though, as was Wes. Giannis was a little worse and Bledsoe was significantly worse. I'm optimistic about Jrue helping and taking over some of the play-making responsibility from Giannis, but I just hate the cost and I agree with the person who said that Ainge probably played the Bucks like a fiddle.

It was weird how the Bucks were a completely different team in the bubble. I don't think even the most biased Bucks fans actually thought they were a historically dominant team, even though they played like it most of the year, but I don't think even the biggest haters could foresee how badly they would collapse either. I have criticized Giannis for playing selfishly and over-aggressively, but I do understand that there were a few guys on the team playing so poorly that it was hard to trust them. Hill was going through the motions and Bledsoe had severe performance anxiety and/or lingering issues from covid. Remember how shocking it was seeing him be so skinny when he first returned to the court?

[Brewhoopfan]

The man was a career 74-75% FT shooter until a little over a year ago. It's by far the most baffling development/regression in his game. That's it, that's the easiest and most important fix. If he somehow doesn't correct it, it's going to severely limit this team's ceiling given how reliant the offense is on him living in the paint and at the foul line. It doesn't matter what shooters/play-makers you surround him with, and it doesn't matter what "scheme" you run if he's gonna continue to be a 58-62% guy from the line.

10-15% in one mans FTs is a detail. Important detail and more easily fixed but a detail.
10% in a whole team's 3p% is a championship. Not just the extra points from all the extra 3s, but the better spacing for Giannis and the rest, better rythme and the better transition defense(way less bricked 3s).

Giannis improving his FTs and his shooting is based in HOPE. He is working on it and hopefully he will get there.
You can't expect to win championships by hoping and believing a problem will fix itself.

We couldn't hope anymore that Bledsoe will have a good playoff series anymore.
We fixed it.

We can't hope that DDV, Pat C, other good players but mediocre career shooters and also b level players and unknown rookies will shoot over 38% from 3 in a playoff series.
We still hope that they will do.

It's a huge mistake imo but there is nothing we can do about it since we gave up everything just to fix Bledsoe.
Let's hope we are lucky this season and Giannis, DDV and whoever else has some playoff minutes to hit their open 3s.

My $.02: Giannis's physical transformation has hurt his shooting. When you're changing your shooting tools (muscles), you really have to work hard at shooting just to maintain. Being a workout warrior has turned him into an MVP, but I hope he stops packing on the pounds. He's plenty big right now. It's time to maintain the weight and focus on skills.

[BucksRule18]

We are not that far away from a championship. A couple of different bounces in that TOR series and we're in the finals, we were that close. Last year, bubble was a mess. Now is that an excuse? Of course not, but we are quite close even with all the "deficiencies". Giannis needs plenty of things from a shooting standpoint, but in all honestly he just needs to work on his FT's and we'd be fine. I don't think he needs a jumpshot for us to win.

Now what I do want to see is....some god damn adjustments from the coaching staff. Yeah we get it Bud, your system is a Reg season juggernaut...but you need to evolve. More PNR with Giannis FFS, I can't remember last time he got a lob or was used as a rim runner, no one is stopping that. Be more creative with your god damn offensive schemes, USE the REGUALR season to experiment. I'm willing to lose 5-6 more games if that means we have more diversity in our schemes for the playoffs.

I've called for some similar adjustments before as well and I agree with most of your post, but to be fair there's not much a coach can do if players don't have the composure and mental toughness to handle the playoffs. In the bubble, they didn't even have much motivation for some reason, so it was predictably a disaster, but I think the ECF is a better indication of where the team stood relative to other contenders in the league - not as good in the playoffs as the regular season, but still roughly on the same level as the other contenders. And they would be the odds-on favorite if you could count on Bledsoe and Giannis to be poised in the playoffs.

I think it's also a case where the Bucks (especially Giannis) always struggle against the Heat. This is where coaching comes in and Bud needs to completely change the team's tactics against this one particular opponent. I personally don't want to see Miami in the playoffs again, even if we have 20 more wins than them in the regular season. For instance, I'm a huge fan of the Brazilian soccer team, but after 3 straight losses to France in the World Cup, I just gave up on ever beating that team.

[BigO]

The insanity in these recent threads is amazing. One poster compared Giannis to Bledsoe, saying Giannis had the yips in the playoffs-OMG. Others have chimed in that Giannis was horrible in the playoffs. Did any of you watch the playoffs?

I will make it simple. What works in the regular season doesn't always work in the playoffs. And especially with the Bucks. The problem is coaching and here it is one more time:

1) On offense, the Bucks run the same offense 90% of the time. Put Giannis at the top and have him create. That's it. During the regular season teams don't have the time to concentrate on developing a plan to stop one guy. During the playoffs, that's all they have to worry about. Bud does not change. That's why he spends the least amount of time in his time-out huddles than any coach I've ever seen.
Most coaches (especially the best ones like Spoelstra or Nurse) will have three or four options if you stop their first one. Bud doesn't have any options. How about posting Giannis or Brook or Middleton? How about set plays freeing up their shooters?
To blame Giannis for following his coach's orders is ridiculous. And for some brave anonymous poster stating Giannis has the yips is really out there.

2) On defense, once again there is only one option. It takes Bud 3/4 of a game to try a switching man defense. Again, other teams only have to prepare for one option with the Bucks. Not so with other teams.

This is 90% a coaching problem. And while having more shooters will help the Bucks, it doesn't solve the overall problem on offense. And defensively they now are probably worse than before. Again, if Bud doesn't develop more options on offense and defense, there is no reason to believe things will be different.

[Ron Swanson]

Not worried at all. He's signing an extension. But he probably needs to sign it within the next 24 hours so that some of you guys can get taken off suicide watch.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The insanity in these recent threads is amazing. One poster compared Giannis to Bledsoe, saying Giannis had the yips in the playoffs-OMG. Others have chimed in that Giannis was horrible in the playoffs. Did any of you watch the playoffs?

I will make it simple. What works in the regular season doesn't always work in the playoffs. And especially with the Bucks. The problem is coaching and here it is one more time:

1) On offense, the Bucks run the same offense 90% of the time. Put Giannis at the top and have him create. That's it. During the regular season teams don't have the time to concentrate on developing a plan to stop one guy. During the playoffs, that's all they have to worry about. Bud does not change. That's why he spends the least amount of time in his time-out huddles than any coach I've ever seen.
Most coaches (especially the best ones like Spoelstra or Nurse) will have three or four options if you stop their first one. Bud doesn't have any options. How about posting Giannis or Brook or Middleton? How about set plays freeing up their shooters?
To blame Giannis for following his coach's orders is ridiculous. And for some brave anonymous poster stating Giannis has the yips is really out there.

2) On defense, once again there is only one option. It takes Bud 3/4 of a game to try a switching man defense. Again, other teams only have to prepare for one option with the Bucks. Not so with other teams.

This is 90% a coaching problem. And while having more shooters will help the Bucks, it doesn't solve the overall problem on offense. And defensively they now are probably worse than before. Again, if Bud doesn't develop more options on offense and defense, there is no reason to believe things will be different.

its a coaching problem because the players cant fix a players problem. you do realize this right?

i do agree bud can be hardheaded but when your successful all year and then in playoff settings and especially crunchtime of playoff settings your team starts acting like they dont belong there its hard to correct. im glad we mixed up some different looks all season and we tried to incorporate but in a team sport you judge the TEAM. far to often we look an individual numbers of those small sample sizes but you can tell the whole team is out of sync... the flow disappears.... the movement disappears..... you dont think that affects wide open shot percentages? of course it does!!! its huge. ive played in front of crowds of thousands and for real **** on the line and when your confidence drops the basket gets SMALL.

if the system is breaking down in these settings the fix isnt finding mr big shot to bail you out. even mr big shot needs to play in a setting that doesnt feel like a jailbreak to hit shots...... you find guys who can control tempo... create confidence with the ball in their hands.... its why lebron, paul, dragic, rondo, lowry, butler, leonard, lillard and the list goes on and on...they all look so collected in the playoffs. sure they hit shots but they also miss alot too. its the tempo and the pace and the cool they play with that matters so much to the TEAM around them. they control the game sometimes fast and sometimes in slow motion. they keep defenses guessing and they deliver passes to teammates who are in flow instead of the hot potato **** ive been watching. thats how you set up your 40% regular season shooters to make those percentages when it matters. im so hopeful jrue can bring this to this team. imo its the greatest thing were lacking

[Cythaps]

Because we had 2 overwhelming regular seasons and 2 underwhelming early playoff exits, we tend to bundle these together and try to draw oversimplified conclusions of the "Bucks are a regular season team" type, and try to fix things that aren't necessarily the causes.

In the 2019 season, our playoffs were a natural continuation of the regular season. We had a dominating 10-1 record with almost all wins being blowouts, and afterwards an overtime game that would have put us 3-0 up against the Raptors, which would almost guarantee a place the Finals. Unfortunately, we all know how it went down.

In the 2020 season, our playoffs had nothing to do with the pre-bubble season. We didn't show any dominance at all, we didn't resemble the team we knew. The thing though is that it didn't start at the playoffs. We were also completely out of sync in the 8 seeding games before them, where opponents are not especially feisty and where coaches don't gameplan against you. I think that trying to find the cause of the latter is much more important than trying to find why Miami dominated us.

So, in 2019 before falling off a cliff in our 13th game of the playoffs, we were really, really good in them.

In 2020 we were bad in the playoffs, as bad as we were in the last 8 games of the regular season.

It's not a regular season - playoffs thing. I cannot pinpoint it exactly, but it's not that simple.

[BigO]

Because we had 2 overwhelming regular seasons and 2 underwhelming early playoff exits, we tend to bundle these together and try to draw oversimplified conclusions of the "Bucks are a regular season team" type, and try to fix things that aren't necessarily the causes.

In the 2019 season, our playoffs were a natural continuation of the regular season. We had a dominating 10-1 record with almost all wins being blowouts, and afterwards an overtime game that would have put us 3-0 up against the Raptors, which would almost guarantee a place the Finals. Unfortunately, we all know how it went down.

In the 2020 season, our playoffs had nothing to do with the pre-bubble season. We didn't show any dominance at all, we didn't resemble the team we knew. The thing though is that it didn't start at the playoffs. We were also completely out of sync in the 8 seeding games before them, where opponents are not especially feisty and where coaches don't gameplan against you. I think that trying to find the cause of the latter is much more important than trying to find why Miami dominated us.

So, in 2019 before falling off a cliff in our 13th game of the playoffs, we were really, really good in them.

In 2020 we were bad in the playoffs, as bad as we were in the last 8 games of the regular season.

It's not a regular season - playoffs thing. I cannot pinpoint it exactly, but it's not that simple.

So you don't know what the problem is, but you do know that it has nothing to do with the difference between the regular season and the playoffs. And you can't figure out why the Bucks looked so good against Boston and Detroit and lost four straight to Toronto (hint: the further you go in the playoffs the better teams you face).

Let's hope Bud finally figures out what he's doing doesn't work. If this happens three times in a row, maybe then someone will look at the coach. Or maybe we can blame Bledsoe (yes, he had to go, but he wasn't the reason we got steamrolled).

[crkone]

With media day tomorrow, today kinda feels like a milestone for him resigning.

[Cythaps]

So you don't know what the problem is, but you do know that it has nothing to do with the difference between the regular season and the playoffs. And you can't figure out why the Bucks looked so good against Boston and Detroit and lost four straight to Toronto (hint: the further you go in the playoffs the better teams you face).

Let's hope Bud finally figures out what he's doing doesn't work. If this happens three times in a row, maybe then someone will look at the coach. Or maybe we can blame Bledsoe (yes, he had to go, but he wasn't the reason we got steamrolled).

Your "hint" is a bit condescending. Orlando this year was pretty bad - we still played bad ourselves. As we did in the seeding games which were certainly not playoffs. I'm just saying it's oversimplified to say we are good in the season and bad in the playoffs.

[StickeeFingaz]

With media day tomorrow, today kinda feels like a milestone for him resigning.

Yea, I agree. I'm really surprised that if he was going to sign the supermax, that he hasn't done it yet.

Giannis has been silent on social media since he's been back in town. I have three theories:

1. He tested positive for COVID and laying low.
2. Deal isn't signed because he's not signing the supermax but instead wants a short term extension and they're working out the details.
3. He's not signing an extension.

[James1980]

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll get constant questions about his upcoming free agency. I don't think he wants all that.

[theFireBlanket]

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll get constant questions about his upcoming free agency. I don't think he wants all that.

Unless he already checked out.

[BucksRule18]

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll get constant questions about his upcoming free agency. I don't think he wants all that.

He can probably deflect like Kyrie did and say I'm not thinking about it until July.

[James1980]

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll get constant questions about his upcoming free agency. I don't think he wants all that.

He can probably deflect like Kyrie did and say I'm not thinking about it until July.

Every team we play's beat writers and local media will ask though.

[fansinceforever]

So you don't know what the problem is, but you do know that it has nothing to do with the difference between the regular season and the playoffs. And you can't figure out why the Bucks looked so good against Boston and Detroit and lost four straight to Toronto (hint: the further you go in the playoffs the better teams you face).

Let's hope Bud finally figures out what he's doing doesn't work. If this happens three times in a row, maybe then someone will look at the coach. Or maybe we can blame Bledsoe (yes, he had to go, but he wasn't the reason we got steamrolled).

Your "hint" is a bit condescending. Orlando this year was pretty bad - we still played bad ourselves. As we did in the seeding games which were certainly not playoffs. I'm just saying it's oversimplified to say we are good in the season and bad in the playoffs.

Our lack of ability to create quality shots consistently in the half court is and has been our biggest issue. In the Regular season it was an issue but not so much that we won't blow out the Chicago's, Detroit's and Charlotte's of the world.

Giannis's FTs are a big deal but, to me, that will continue to be what keeps us from winning a championship if we haven't improved in that area... Like by a lot.

[ABucksFan]

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll get constant questions about his upcoming free agency. I don't think he wants all that.

Unless he already checked out.

I'm already in a fragile state of mind. These comments don't helpp.