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Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!!

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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#61 » by danfantastk32 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:31 am

zuju wrote:A question regarding salary cap space
Now that we have only 1 Vet Min Salary cap space left.
If we sign someone on a vet min deal in the mid season, Will the cap space count as half of amount of a vet min deal or a full vet min deal?
That is, if we keep this roster unchanged until after all star break, do we have the cap space to sign 2 players on vet min deals respectively?


I used to be much more into this world...I'm a little out-of-date with with the salary stuff...but I don't think you can sign 2 guys.

Take the logic you had with the players: since it's only half a season left....you only get half the vet-min.
Now apply that to the team: Only half a season left...you have half the vet's min available.

I might be wrong....but I think it works that way. Both teams and players start "moving the line" once games get underway. I'd def get a second voice on that, but I feel like this came up before.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#62 » by zimpy27 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:05 am

danfantastk32 wrote:
zuju wrote:A question regarding salary cap space
Now that we have only 1 Vet Min Salary cap space left.
If we sign someone on a vet min deal in the mid season, Will the cap space count as half of amount of a vet min deal or a full vet min deal?
That is, if we keep this roster unchanged until after all star break, do we have the cap space to sign 2 players on vet min deals respectively?


I used to be much more into this world...I'm a little out-of-date with with the salary stuff...but I don't think you can sign 2 guys.

Take the logic you had with the players: since it's only half a season left....you only get half the vet-min.
Now apply that to the team: Only half a season left...you have half the vet's min available.

I might be wrong....but I think it works that way. Both teams and players start "moving the line" once games get underway. I'd def get a second voice on that, but I feel like this came up before.


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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#63 » by DNP-Old » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:43 pm

With GR3 now off the table, how about Shaquille Harrison or Rondae Hollis-Jefferson? It is getting pretty thin out there in free agent land.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#64 » by zuju » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:45 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:
zuju wrote:A question regarding salary cap space
Now that we have only 1 Vet Min Salary cap space left.
If we sign someone on a vet min deal in the mid season, Will the cap space count as half of amount of a vet min deal or a full vet min deal?
That is, if we keep this roster unchanged until after all star break, do we have the cap space to sign 2 players on vet min deals respectively?


I used to be much more into this world...I'm a little out-of-date with with the salary stuff...but I don't think you can sign 2 guys.

Take the logic you had with the players: since it's only half a season left....you only get half the vet-min.
Now apply that to the team: Only half a season left...you have half the vet's min available.

I might be wrong....but I think it works that way. Both teams and players start "moving the line" once games get underway. I'd def get a second voice on that, but I feel like this came up before.

Thanks a lot for answering

With a limited FA pool left, I guess we will make a move later in the season after we figure out where to improve.

If harrell doesn't fit, he'd be a valuable piece to trade with eg for Covington and harry gile or tucker etc
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#65 » by DanishLakerFan » Tue Dec 1, 2020 5:23 am

With Dudley and McKinnie (and KCP, Lebron, Wes and Kuz) we dont really need another back-up wing. We do need a backup 5 that can put AD to the 4 more or less full-time. Dewayne Dedmon would be ideal. Other than that, perhaps a point guard to round out the bench.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#66 » by asero » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:20 am

Rumors are circulating that Lance will be back.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#67 » by Kilroy » Tue Dec 1, 2020 5:45 pm

So we're done now right? We got 15, and I thought since we're hard-capped that's all the space we have.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#68 » by Beethoven » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:08 pm

We have 16:

BRON
Ad
Kuz
Caruso
Kcp
Morris
Dudley
THT
Kostas
Trez
Gasol
Schroder
Wes
McGinnis
2 college scrub pickups
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#69 » by MarxyLebronist » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:21 pm

Would love one last cash-in with a move of Kuzma, THT & McKinnie for Rose, whenever the salaries can be moved together. Perhaps I'm dreaming lol.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#70 » by Beethoven » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:27 pm

I think right now we are overly romanticizing offense on this team. We have enough. Kuzma and tht for rose will just hurt this team defensively.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#71 » by MarxyLebronist » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:35 pm

Don't forget other romanticizations here, ha! I also want to see Rose get his ring and be part of a winner like he deserves after all the work he's done. :-) Glad folks respect him again, even though he's not the athletic marvel he used to be. Prime moment for his best play this year, and no one will mistake him for a 3-ball spammer lol.

Kuzma's performance in pressure situations last year was no good, and his defense is not impressive. He does know the system better though, give him that for sure. Can't see him being re-signed at numbers he'd hope for, as a Laker. And he won't be a centerpiece in, for example, a move for Giannis if that's a thought anyone's entertaining. No idea if he cares about being home again- every player's different on that front- but it was a part of the thinking here as far as being good to him for his work for the team. He's a league-average type player (far more talented on iso-O than other elements like shooting or defense, which sometimes makes folks think a player is above average in some way) who will play minutes for a whole career, on the better side of the middle divide, which is fine.

Rose is smarter, tougher, and better, and more of a piece for a contender that needs to give 15-20 high quality, reliable minutes to someone.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#72 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:42 pm

asero wrote:Rumors are circulating that Lance will be back.


oh god...
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#73 » by DNP-Old » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:59 pm

Beethoven wrote:We have 16:

BRON
Ad
Kuz
Caruso
Kcp
Morris
Dudley
THT
Kostas
Trez
Gasol
Schroder
Wes
McGinnis
2 college scrub pickups



We have 13 roster spots filled:
James
Davis
Kuzma
Caruso
KCP
Morris
Dudley
THT
Harrell
Gasol
Schroder
Mathews
McGinnis


Two 2-way players:
Antetokounmpo
Cacok

3 exhibit 10 contracts:
Simpson
Harris
Tinkle
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#74 » by lazybatman » Wed Dec 2, 2020 6:29 am

Beethoven wrote:I think right now we are overly romanticizing offense on this team. We have enough. Kuzma and tht for rose will just hurt this team defensively.

Ikr.. Vogel's already gonna have a headache trying to find minutes for Caruso, Kuz, THT & Morris with this squad. It's easy to say that it's a good problem to have, but can't sit Kuz too much in his contract year; Fans and Caruso / THT gonna get anxious pretty soon if they don't see the floor more than last year after the progress they made; Morris has come back on the minimum purely for the joy of being around his boys, but he's not a reserve player by any means.

Are we doing away with Caruso entirely - I don't think so. If Schroeder wants to start, I'd want Caruso to get more time on the ball in the substitute minutes learning to run point. He took some massive strides in the bubble. I can see him becoming our Marcus Smart kinda mean mug. Wouldn't that be special?

Our offense is already set to make a pretty big jump considering -
- Better shooters added
- Floor spacing stretch bigs / 19 ppg Trez
- Average Basketball IQ going way up with the addition of Gasol, Wes, Trez & Schroeder
- Championship experience and confidence in the youngsters
- Addition of 2 6MOTY candidates who both averaged 19 ppg last year

I think this roster is done with now. Let's sign Pau and and maybe Andre Roberson as a wing insurance for Wes and get cracking on the chemistry with the new guys on the squad.

Possible rotation right now with 12 vets + THT
Lebron 34
AD 34
Schroeder 30
Trez 35
Caruso 25
KCP 25
Wes 25(might need 35 on nights when we play elite wings / guards, unless THT takes a massive leap on offense)
M Gasol 15
Kuz 7
THT 5
Morris 5
Mckinnie 0
Dud 0
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#75 » by politm » Wed Dec 2, 2020 9:29 am

Has training camp started yet?
I guess no media day this year with the Coronavirus situation...
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#76 » by MarxyLebronist » Wed Dec 2, 2020 3:47 pm

lazybatman wrote:Possible rotation right now with 12 vets + THT
Lebron 34
AD 34
Schroeder 30
Trez 35
Caruso 25
KCP 25
Wes 25(might need 35 on nights when we play elite wings / guards, unless THT takes a massive leap on offense)
M Gasol 15
Kuz 7
THT 5
Morris 5
Mckinnie 0
Dud 0


I see where you're coming from on all the other ideas you mentioned before this minutes breakdown, too, and Caruso's value is clear- he's one of my favorites. I gather there's a wait and see idea about THT, and I liked what he flashed too for sure. The main reason I and others are thinking of a higher quality, higher impact player who can impact a game and steady a team's offense, indeed, when others rest, is the Kuzma problem. He fell below Caruso's minutes come playoff time, deservedly, and now you have him at well under a third of his 19-20 MPG. That's not good for him, even if it's good for the team (it is!). So I thought maybe he'd like to go home (DET) and maybe Rose was the kind of savvy vet player with lots of plus play to offer in the right rotation role. But you're all right that the defensive side is the wing value and need and Wes Matthews just filled a major role.

I also like the team's dedication to a really low turnover percentage. KCP and Wes are elite for their careers in fact, among other strong Lakers players in this regard, Bradley was also a leader in this, and even JR Smith was better than Danny Green. Rose is decent for this, but at very high usage rates historically. He's not much better than others like Curry, and he's right ahead of James, but basically the idea is that he's a responsible ball management player. It's also encouraging to see his new commitment to passing lane defense- another Laker emphasis. For the quick, shallow stat sheet check, his steal numbers alone in the last two years show a marked improvement over his career (higher SPG rate but at 10 MPG fewer than his prior high very early in his career when his constant activity did the trick).

Anyway, the point is that 12-15 minutes of fully matured and motivated Derrick Rose is way better than any developmental minutes from Kuzma/THT/McKinnie. There's not even an argument- Rose would simply be the best 8/9 man in the league, and the veteran defensive geniuses on the team and coaching for defensive systems would make him as elite as the team. Kuzma was still missing assignments all the time and lazing about, even come playoffs. The motor just isn't there. Much more optimistic about THT for sure, but perhaps only because he's been so rarely featured and hasn't been relied upon, whereas Kuzma, like Green, has disappointed in high leverage moments many times now.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#77 » by DNP-Old » Wed Dec 2, 2020 4:18 pm

MarxyLebronist wrote:
lazybatman wrote:Possible rotation right now with 12 vets + THT
Lebron 34
AD 34
Schroeder 30
Trez 35
Caruso 25
KCP 25
Wes 25(might need 35 on nights when we play elite wings / guards, unless THT takes a massive leap on offense)
M Gasol 15
Kuz 7
THT 5
Morris 5
Mckinnie 0
Dud 0


I see where you're coming from on all the other ideas you mentioned before this minutes breakdown, too, and Caruso's value is clear- he's one of my favorites. I gather there's a wait and see idea about THT, and I liked what he flashed too for sure. The main reason I and others are thinking of a higher quality, higher impact player who can impact a game and steady a team's offense, indeed, when others rest, is the Kuzma problem. He fell below Caruso's minutes come playoff time, deservedly, and now you have him at well under a third of his 19-20 MPG. That's not good for him, even if it's good for the team (it is!). So I thought maybe he'd like to go home (DET) and maybe Rose was the kind of savvy vet player with lots of plus play to offer in the right rotation role. But you're all right that the defensive side is the wing value and need and Wes Matthews just filled a major role.

I also like the team's dedication to a really low turnover percentage. KCP and Wes are elite for their careers in fact, among other strong Lakers players in this regard, Bradley was also a leader in this, and even JR Smith was better than Danny Green. Rose is decent for this, but at very high usage rates historically. He's not much better than others like Curry, and he's right ahead of James, but basically the idea is that he's a responsible ball management player. It's also encouraging to see his new commitment to passing lane defense- another Laker emphasis. For the quick, shallow stat sheet check, his steal numbers alone in the last two years show a marked improvement over his career (higher SPG rate but at 10 MPG fewer than his prior high very early in his career when his constant activity did the trick).

Anyway, the point is that 12-15 minutes of fully matured and motivated Derrick Rose is way better than any developmental minutes from Kuzma/THT/McKinnie. There's not even an argument- Rose would simply be the best 8/9 man in the league, and the veteran defensive geniuses on the team and coaching for defensive systems would make him as elite as the team. Kuzma was still missing assignments all the time and lazing about, even come playoffs. The motor just isn't there. Much more optimistic about THT for sure, but perhaps only because he's been so rarely featured and hasn't been relied upon, whereas Kuzma, like Green, has disappointed in high leverage moments many times now.



The problem is it would take Kuzma, THT and McKinnie to acquire Rose. You can swap Caruso for either Kuzma or THT & McKinnie but either way it is a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade and LAL being up against the hard cap there is no room to replace the other bodies on the roster.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#78 » by MarxyLebronist » Wed Dec 2, 2020 4:46 pm

No qualms at all about replacing all of Kuzma last year with only Rose this year. Any THT hype is not my bag, and they kept McKinnie largely because his deal would count for more if waived, right? Whereas Bell was a way cheaper cut. Not because of his playing ability- he's practice squad, ultra garbage time, and potential trade salary match. Correct me if I'm wrong on the cut logic- without full access to all the true numbers and minutiae of the league's other big competition (spreadsheet and data skills) I can only know so much. But to your good point about financial considerations, it's true that the Rose idea still takes on about $800K more salary than would leave even if all 3 of Kuzma, THT, and McK went.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#79 » by DNP-Old » Wed Dec 2, 2020 7:50 pm

MarxyLebronist wrote:No qualms at all about replacing all of Kuzma last year with only Rose this year. Any THT hype is not my bag, and they kept McKinnie largely because his deal would count for more if waived, right? Whereas Bell was a way cheaper cut. Not because of his playing ability- he's practice squad, ultra garbage time, and potential trade salary match. Correct me if I'm wrong on the cut logic- without full access to all the true numbers and minutiae of the league's other big competition (spreadsheet and data skills) I can only know so much. But to your good point about financial considerations, it's true that the Rose idea still takes on about $800K more salary than would leave even if all 3 of Kuzma, THT, and McK went.


It is not that simple as the two players have very different skill sets. LAL is already thin at wing defenders and you would be trading three players that can defend them for Rose who is not effective defending them.
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Re: Round off the roster now.. Let's take it home!! 

Post#80 » by lazybatman » Wed Dec 2, 2020 8:08 pm

DNP-Old wrote:
MarxyLebronist wrote:I see where you're coming from on all the other ideas you mentioned before this minutes breakdown, too, and Caruso's value is clear- he's one of my favorites. I gather there's a wait and see idea about THT, and I liked what he flashed too for sure. The main reason I and others are thinking of a higher quality, higher impact player who can impact a game and steady a team's offense, indeed, when others rest, is the Kuzma problem. He fell below Caruso's minutes come playoff time, deservedly, and now you have him at well under a third of his 19-20 MPG. That's not good for him, even if it's good for the team (it is!). So I thought maybe he'd like to go home (DET) and maybe Rose was the kind of savvy vet player with lots of plus play to offer in the right rotation role. But you're all right that the defensive side is the wing value and need and Wes Matthews just filled a major role.

I also like the team's dedication to a really low turnover percentage. KCP and Wes are elite for their careers in fact, among other strong Lakers players in this regard, Bradley was also a leader in this, and even JR Smith was better than Danny Green. Rose is decent for this, but at very high usage rates historically. He's not much better than others like Curry, and he's right ahead of James, but basically the idea is that he's a responsible ball management player. It's also encouraging to see his new commitment to passing lane defense- another Laker emphasis. For the quick, shallow stat sheet check, his steal numbers alone in the last two years show a marked improvement over his career (higher SPG rate but at 10 MPG fewer than his prior high very early in his career when his constant activity did the trick).

Anyway, the point is that 12-15 minutes of fully matured and motivated Derrick Rose is way better than any developmental minutes from Kuzma/THT/McKinnie. There's not even an argument- Rose would simply be the best 8/9 man in the league, and the veteran defensive geniuses on the team and coaching for defensive systems would make him as elite as the team. Kuzma was still missing assignments all the time and lazing about, even come playoffs. The motor just isn't there. Much more optimistic about THT for sure, but perhaps only because he's been so rarely featured and hasn't been relied upon, whereas Kuzma, like Green, has disappointed in high leverage moments many times now.



The problem is it would take Kuzma, THT and McKinnie to acquire Rose. You can swap Caruso for either Kuzma or THT & McKinnie but either way it is a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade and LAL being up against the hard cap there is no room to replace the other bodies on the roster.


Fellows,

We have Lebron James here = offense is never gonna be a problem, specially now that Dwight and McGee are gone. We finished last season with ORTG - 112.83 which is elite in itself. 2015-17 GSW and Rockets recorded 115-116 ORTG; Mavs broke that record this year with 117.41. You guys don't think we'll easily add another 3-5 points with these changes? (copy + paste from my last post)

- Better shooters added
- Floor spacing stretch bigs
- Average Basketball IQ going way up with the addition of Gasol, Wes, Trez & Schroeder
- Championship experience and confidence in the youngsters
- Addition of 2 6MOTY candidates who both averaged 19 ppg last year
- Enough playmaking from Bron, Schroeder, Gasol, Caruso, AD

We are short on minutes and possibly thin on big wing defensive depth outside of Lebron and Wes, specially in Covid open season, until the vaccines truly kick in. Kuz / THT and McKinnie are their really low level backups, we absolutely can't afford to sacrifice for a smaller guard whose defensive commitment and fit is questionable at best. Giving up that kinda size and potential could leave us very very exposed against teams with multiple big wings -
Clips - Kawhi, PG & Marcus Morris
Nets - KD, Lavert, Harris, Dinwiddie

We can pickup a waived PG around the deadline if we see the need.

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