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Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder

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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#141 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:18 pm

gambitx777 wrote:Well I think it's possible westbrook's numbers dipped more due to harden than they did due to him being in open decline, maybe .

More or less what I pointed out last night....

Only 2 of Westbrook's numbers went down last season -- assists & defensive rebounds. Meanwhile, his scoring actually improved -- more points & a higher ts% on higher usage.

Seems obvious that, at least in part, his assists dropped b/c of how much Harden handles the ball (averaged almost 8.5 assists/40 minutes on his own).

There's no question that we exchanged Wall for a better player. The question is, what use is he to us? What's the benefit, given that it cost us a R1 pick?

The most obvious benefit is to turn off the buzzing distractions around John. We'll have to see whether Russ brings his own set of those!

But the biggest benefit -- at least possibly -- is that this may signal Bradley Beal staying around long-term. I'm sure Tommy & Ted discussed this trade with Brad, & the question will have come up: "we trade John, & you leave in 16 months... that's not good for the franchise, so...?"

My guess is they wouldn't have made the trade without at least some kind of positive signal from Beal....
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#142 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:25 pm

How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#143 » by tontoz » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:29 pm

Wow. I don't know how to respond to this. Similar contracts, both flawed players but Westbrook is clearly better. He can be hard to watch though.

I have to assume that the bad blood was real between Wall/Beal/front office.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#144 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:40 pm

WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:I hated this trade when I heard about it. I still hate that we are giving up a R1 pick. We are a bad team trying to rebuild. Giving up a R1 pick ain't the way to do it.


If we flip Westbrook, we get the R1 pick back, maybe more. If, before the trade deadline, we are nowhere close to a playoff spot, I can see us flipping Westbrook, among others. ...

I too dont like to see Wall go. But if we have to trade wall, this is a good return.

Absolutely! If we trade Westbrook & get back a R1 pick, that changes the entire equation -- now it becomes a part of rebuilding!

WallToWall wrote:A little surprised at your reaction, PIF. Just on the numbers alone, Westbrook > Wall. That alone should make the trade acceptable. Now, Westbrook will be around good shooters. Think about his assist numbers, in addition to the fact that those shooters will take the pressure off of him.

Fair enough -- & see my comments from this morning.

The one potential problem I see is FGAs -- will there be enough available for Russ? Or, better, will he be ok w/ reducing his FGAs? That would be a real plus.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#145 » by prime1time » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:49 pm

I love the glossy recollections of Wall. How about Wall led teams showed up for big games but constantly failed to show up for small ones. How about when he showed up out of shape to start the season?

Wall’s tenure here wa permeated with a level of arrogance that was constantly perplexing. The obsession with other people’s salaries and not getting his “due.”

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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#146 » by prime1time » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:54 pm

payitforward wrote:How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.

Yes and no. Here’s the problem, either you make the trade or you trade Beal. We decided to keep Beal so here we are. You can say we are a franchise with no plan, but the plan is to win in the near future. We aren’t nearly as far away as people think. In addition, we traded away a heavily protected first round pick, ameliorates the worst potential effects. If we decide to tear it down, Beal will bring in a plethora of picks and we will rebuild. More so, the example that Russ will set in the locker room will be great for our young players. Gone are the days of only showing up against good teams imo.

As for the shot attempts, it’s impossible to say but we want the version of Russ that will makes everyone better. In addition, Russ wants to be here. The fit is impossible to say but I’m willing to watch it play out.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#147 » by FAH1223 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:18 pm

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This one is simple.

The Wizards, over the last two years, came to believe in Bradley Beal more than John Wall.

And they knew if they brought Wall back as if the last two years hadn’t happened, and it was 2017 again, and he once again had the rock, that Beal would push his way out of town. Maybe not this season; maybe, even, not next season, but inevitably, he’d be gone. And if they had to pick one or the other, it was going to be Beal — who toiled last season on a bad team and had a great season, playing well enough on a 25-win team to warrant serious all-NBA consideration. He’s 27. He’s in his prime. He’s become a leader. He’s worth trying to build a franchise around.

With the opportunity to make the best possible case to Beal to stay past the end of his current deal — by no means a guarantee, by the way; if you ask me the odds he’s still here in 2023, I’d still put them at 30-70 against — the Wizards pulled the trigger Wednesday, dealing Wall and a 2023 first-round pick to Houston for Russell Westbrook — essentially, what our Shams Charania reported a couple of weeks ago was being discussed, except Washington refused to add the multiple firsts the Rockets were initially asking for along with the point guard. (The 2023 first they’re sending Houston has a whole bunch of protections for Washington that render it, essentially, meaningless to the Wizards; they’ll still have their first next year, in what will be a loaded draft. That’s the pick they had to keep.)

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, the Wizards had to stop being insane. They had to move on from Wall. The only real option was Houston, which needed to get rid of Westbrook — who also wanted to be traded.

Two talented, flawed, but real talents, passing in the night.

Glad the owner listened.

In an era that craves efficient basketball, Westbrook often isn’t efficient. And he can be a handful for a team to deal with. But he wouldn’t have been available if he was perfect. What Russell Westbrook does do, night in and out, is compete his ass off. He sets a tone, a relentless one, in trying to win games. Ask yourself, if you’re a Wizards fan, if you could say that about the Wall-Beal Wizards the last few years. There are teams, like the Heat and Jazz and Nets, that have almost trademarked multiple-effort, hardnosed play, no matter the opponent. Washington was, too often, 180 degrees from that.

Were Wall and Beal talented? Yes. Did they want to win? Yes. But everyone in the NBA wants to win. To win regularly, you have to, pardon my French, give a ****, every game, no matter if you’re playing LeBron and the Lakers in a sold-out building, or the Hornets, in a half-empty one. Too often, Wall and Beal didn’t, looking at the opponent and saying “easy night.” Of course, it often became just the opposite.

Even at 32, Russell Westbrook still sweats out a few dozen gallons of ****, 82 (or, this season, 72) times a season. He averaged 27 points, 7.9 boards and 7 assists last season in Houston. He’s a nine-time All-Star and the 2016-17 NBA MVP, equaling one of sports’ most indelible, seemingly unmatchable, records: averaging a triple-double for a season in the NBA, something that hadn’t been done since Oscar Robertson, in 1962. And: Westbrook averaged a triple-double the next two seasons afterward, for good measure.

That’s a big part of “culture” — that amorphous, cliched concept that everyone in sports talks about — just, simply, competing at the highest level when the lights come on. The Wizards say they want to re-set their culture. Westbrook will help the Wizards, significantly, with that.

And a healthy Wall, even if just 80-85 percent of what he was before tearing his Achilles, could help the Rockets. He can play off of James Harden; if he was serious, as he insisted he was, that he could become more of a secondary ballhandler and catch-and-shooter with Beal, owing to Beal’s improved playmaking, he certainly can do it with Harden. Wall can get open 3s for Eric Gordon and P.J. Tucker and Harden (I have my doubts that Harden, now, will be placated and drop his own trade demand to Brooklyn or Philly, but we’ll see). And Wall can and will throw electric oops to newly-signed center Christian Wood. Houston could be a fun team to watch and a likely playoff team in the West.

I don’t know if the Wizards can get back to the playoffs led by a Westbrook-Beal backcourt. Off the top of my head: Miami, Milwaukee, Boston, Toronto, Brooklyn, Philly and Indiana look to be postseason locks, with a reconfigured Atlanta, Charlotte and Orlando all in the mix with Washington for the last spot. But the Wizards aren’t going to be boring, for sure. And Westbrook, who’s only made the Finals once in his career, with Oklahoma City in 2012, is still trying to get back there.

It’s nonetheless jarring to mark the end of Wall’s decade-long tenure here in D.C., and especially the Wall-Beal divorce.

Most everyone in D.C. bought into the young guard tandem, which had so much promise and played at a level together we hadn’t seen from a backcourt in this town — no joke — since Kevin Porter and Phil Chenier. Wall was a No. 1 overall pick, often electric. The Wizards got further behind Wall and Beal, winning three first-round series and making the playoffs four times in five years, than they had in four decades. The dream was that there was another gear. But there wasn’t, not after Wall started getting slammed by injuries.

But, this wasn’t personal.

Do Wall and Beal still like each other? Yes. They’d been through too much together over eight years together, had done too much together to make the Wizards semi-relevant in the East again, and had become fathers within a couple of years of one another, not to still respect each other, as men and teammates. They saw each other Tuesday in D.C., as the Wizards reported to town for the start of individual workouts and training camp.

But did Beal want to wait any more for Wall to get back to where he was before the injuries? Did he believe Wall was as diligent about his rehab as he could have been? Did he want to go back to a supporting, catch-and-shoot role, which seemed inevitable even as Wall professed he’d play differently with Beal going forward, seeing how Beal’s game had grown the last two years?

No.

Leonsis had also come to believe that Wall was, often if not always, “too cool for school,” in his thinking. And, the shirtless video of Wall at a party this summer, flashing gang signs, was the last straw. (Again, as I wrote two weeks ago: Leonsis was a thousand percent right in being furious with his 30-year-old face of the franchise for doing such a dumb thing.) This was not a decision that could be made by GM Tommy Sheppard, or his equivalent in Houston, Rafael Stone.

“At the end of the day, this is a Ted call,” one source said.

That doesn’t mean Sheppard didn’t agree, given that Wall refused to back off his demand to be traded the last two weeks. But it’s a team’s owner that decides to trade a team’s five-time All-Star, face of the franchise and lodestar for so many people in this town. He doesn’t sign off on that. He decides to do it.

But you can read elsewhere if you’re looking for someone to take shots at John Wall on his way out of town.

A lot of people — a lot — who’ve been in D.C. more than 10 minutes, and who have roots here, came to love Wall, what he did for poor people and families in the parts of town many don’t care about. How he was clearly flawed but owned it, how he wore his heart on his sleeve and cried openly — when he signed his max extension, when his mother was sick, when a little girl he’d befriended died. And how he played in the playoffs with a broken hand, and how he led Washington to within a game of the Eastern Conference finals, and jumped on the scorer’s table after winning that Game 6 in 2017 over Boston, and how the crowd roared that night, having a legit contender in town for the first time in God knows how long, and the point guard and the crowd both hoping the night, and the feeling that washed over the building, would never end.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#148 » by nate33 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:28 pm

Lots of thoughts on this:

- At first, I was really upset, but the more I think about it, the more I think Westbrook will be an improvement over Wall, at least for winning games in the short term, albeit perhaps not for player development. We saw in Houston as recently as last season that Westbrook is a major offensive force as long as he has spacing. Following the Covington trade, when Houston started playing 5-out ball, Westbrook averaged 30 points 8 rebounds and 6 assists on a TS% of .570. His team went 9-6 in that stretch (in the West, against teams vying for playoff position). That late-season Houston stretch was really the first time in his career that he got to play 5-out, and he really had a revival. He took a lot of criticism for most of the season, but suddenly, he was a star again. The Wizards have a stretch 5 in Bryant that should unlock Westbrook in a similar manner.

- Westbrook is more durable than Wall. This will likely tilt the trade more in our favor.

- Westbrook has won (regular season games at least) everywhere he has gone. Hopefully that attitude will rub off on the youngsters. You play hard and try and win every game.

- There are definitely downsides to the trade. Primarily, it doesn't seem very likely that the younger players on our team will develop very well with Westbrook and Beal having such a high usage rate. It won't be a problem for Bonga or Bertans who don't need the ball, and Bryant will probably be okay too because Russ can run a pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop, but I think it's going to be hard on Hachimura, Brown and Avdija, particularly Brown.

- A possible silver lining is that if Hachimura's usage drops considerably, maybe he will focus all of his attention on defense, rebounding and 3-point shooting, which are precisely the things he needs to improve upon before he worries about adding shot creation to his repertoire. He may not like it, but it's the best thing for him.

- If it's true that Wall wanted out and/or Beal wanted Wall out, then Sheppard was really in a difficult situation. He could either trade Wall with picks for cap relief, or he could trade Wall with picks for another overpaid but good player like Blake Griffin or Westbrook. But with Beal's contract ending in 2022, it really wasn't feasible to just trade away Wall for cap relief. Westbrook was really his only option. That said, maybe Sheppard was partially responsible for the Wall tension in the first place, I dunno.

- My biggest concern is, what is the long range plan? We've got Westbrook for 3 more years, but in 2 years, Beal's player option kicks in. I can't imagine that having a 34-year-old Westbrook on the roster in 2022-23 is going to be what convinces Beal to stay. But if, prior to that, we end up trading Westbrook for cap relief and (optimistically) a future pick or two, is that going to be all that exciting for Beal? I don't think so. It seems to me that the best way to convince Beal to stay is to develop Avdija, Hachimura, Bonga, Brown and Bryant into legit, starting-quality NBA players. Does Westbrook help with this? I suppose if Westbrook helps us win more games in the meantime, it'll help some.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#149 » by NatP4 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:28 pm

Great article. Wall dug his own grave, Beal emerged as a superstar, this was inevitable.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#150 » by Jay81 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:32 pm

lets look at Houstons side. They took an enormous risk in getting a guy who hasnt played in 2 years...and when he did play..he was pretty bad. He also is a huge injury risk that has a huge amount left on his contract. Westbrook can still play at a high level and can be traded to the knicks or something. Wiz won the trade
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#151 » by Ruzious » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:42 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Man, that picture really does say a thousand words.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#152 » by queridiculo » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:47 pm

I am disappointed as hell, and not really for basketball reasons.

You can make a solid argument that the Wizards got the better of the Rockets in this deal, no argument from me.

Strictly on a human level though, this feels like betrayal.

Aldridge's proselytizing wouldn't be as hard to stomach if he didn't let Leonsis off the hook for the role he's played in this saga as the owner of this franchise.

Wall came here as a puppy, eager to embrace a community he felt connected to because of the pain of his own upbringing and the roots of his father.

He wasn't always as professional as you would expect from somebody you hand the keys, but neither was this organization and that's really the crux of it.

Leonsis, armed with the opportunity to build a winning culture around Wall, let a boil that was visible to everybody fester until it was too late to salvage.

Ted leading the charge on purging Wall from the organization has a Dr. Frankenstein vibe to it. Seeing Wall shunned in this fashion makes me sick.

Double bottom line? Talking out of both sides of your mouth is more like it.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#153 » by JAR69 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:49 pm

Any discussion of the trade needs to look back to those threads that evaluated players who came back from Achilles injuries. If I recall, nearly all of them were significantly worse, with only Dominique being better for even a season or two. Maybe Wall is the exception, but from a risk perspective, this is a big win.

And if a player really wants out, it is better to ship them. A tense locker room/team waiting for a trade is terrible for everyone, especially the youngsters.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#154 » by pcbothwel » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:49 pm

payitforward wrote:How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.


I didnt post when I heard about it last night so I could sleep on it.

First thought: Wall seems healthy and might have a better skill set to compliment Beal. Westbrook looked bad last year and terrible in the playoffs with a TON of mileage on him. We lost the trade.

But then I dug a little deeper and am listening to what insiders are saying and am a little more optimistic for a couple reasons:

1) Russell Stats: At first glance it appears he fell off and then was AWFUL in the playoffs. But then I looked at the splits/logs. He started off the first 20 games mediocre as he was adjusting to the MDA/Harden offense.
But in the next 35 games, he put 31 / 8 / 7 with a TS of 57% and ORtg/DRtg of 111/110 on a 35.8% usage. That's damn good... He then caught Covid and in his 3rd game in the bubble hurt his quad. From there he missed 8 games, including the 1st 4 playoff games against OKC. Once back, he looked awful both physically and decision making... I'm willing to bit his decline is a bit exaggerated and may be closer to the guy we saw for 35 games in the middle of the season.

2) Draft Pick: I HATE giving up the pick, but lets actually walk through it and see why its a savvy pick/protection. The first year is 2023, which gives us 3 years to make a run and figure out the Beal situation. If every thing breaks right with Beal and our young guys, that pick will be around 20 in the 2023 draft. However, if we make a 1-2 year run with Russ and Beal and the young guys are only rotation worthy, then we will trade Beal and rebuild in which case we probably dont trade the pick until the 2025 draft and still dont think it will be top 12.

3) Pace: While Wall was always a blur in the open court, he was too often content with slowing it down to the half court because of his poor conditioning and his ability to rest on his great vision/ PnR play. Westbrook is ALWAYS running and was actually out of place in Houston when too often they slowed it down.
Russ is an elite rebounder that will allow Rui, Bertans, Deni, and Bryant to get ahead of the defense.
Listen to everything Tommy and Brooks said this offseason. It was about using Pace/speed on offense to help with defense.

4) Attitude: Wall is easily the better PG (Vision, change of pace, and even 3 point shooting), but his work ethic was shaky and you never knew what Wall you were getting on a given night. I cant count how many times over the last 6-8 years we get up for good teams, but lose to dogs. We could of been 3-5 wins better routinely if we were more consistent.
Russ WILL NOT allow that... which leads to my last point.

5) Culture: We have some very impressive young player in both skill set and IQ/work ethic. I think Russ's intensity will be infectious for guys like Bryant, Rui, Brown, Deni, etc.
Also, it appears from what we're hearing that Beal REALLY wanted Russ and Russ wanted to come to DC for Beal/Brooks. So thats always a plus.

Again, I still think Wall bounces back... but we really needed a overhaul at the top to allow the culture we've been building through the draft to permeate the entire roster.

I'll say this. Every team is on notice when you play the Wiz. Beal, Russ, Bryant, Lopez, etc.... it may be game 48 on a Tuesday night, but that group is going to come to bust your ass.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#155 » by Ruzious » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:51 pm

Jay81 wrote:lets look at Houstons side. They took an enormous risk in getting a guy who hasnt played in 2 years...and when he did play..he was pretty bad. He also is a huge injury risk that has a huge amount left on his contract. Westbrook can still play at a high level and can be traded to the knicks or something. Wiz won the trade

True - it's not just that he hasn't played in 2 years; it's been at least 3 years that he hasn't been healthy enough to play at the level he was used to. It must have been a case where Houston felt there was no way Westbrook was going to play for them - and his trade value was just going to decrease the longer they held on to him. That combined with Wall being good friends with Harden - giving them a last ditch effort to convince Harden to stay - even if Wall's style will likely not blend well with Harden's.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#156 » by No-Man » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:53 pm

You guys are missing the point, the Rockets are better off even if Wall doesn't suit up, just by not having Westbrook they are a better team, easily
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#157 » by nate33 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 2:59 pm

pcbothwel wrote:4) Attitude: Wall is easily the better PG (Vision, change of pace, and even 3 point shooting), but his work ethic was shaky and you never knew what Wall you were getting on a given night. I cant count how many times over the last 6-8 years we get up for good teams, but lose to dogs. We could of been 3-5 wins better routinely if we were more consistent.
Russ WILL NOT allow that... which leads to my last point.

This is a very good point. The team has always been too cocky, and too lackadaisical, and too inattentive to detail, and my sense was that Wall was a big part of it. You loved Wall when he was playing hard and had the fiery competitive edge, but you definitely didn't see that guy every night (or every offseason).
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#158 » by nate33 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 3:01 pm

Fischella wrote:You guys are missing the point, the Rockets are better off even if Wall doesn't suit up, just by not having Westbrook they are a better team, easily

Perhaps (though I think you are overstating it). But the Wizards aren't the Rockets. The Rockets are a unique team built around a unique player. Westbrook is perhaps the worst player in the league to pair with Harden. The fact that Westbrook didn't help the Rockets all that much doesn't mean he can't help the Wizards.
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#159 » by Ruzious » Thu Dec 3, 2020 3:05 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.


I didnt post when I heard about it last night so I could sleep on it.

First thought: Wall seems healthy and might have a better skill set to compliment Beal. Westbrook looked bad last year and terrible in the playoffs with a TON of mileage on him. We lost the trade.

But then I dug a little deeper and am listening to what insiders are saying and am a little more optimistic for a couple reasons:

1) Russell Stats: At first glance it appears he fell off and then was AWFUL in the playoffs. But then I looked at the splits/logs. He started off the first 20 games mediocre as he was adjusting to the MDA/Harden offense.
But in the next 35 games, he put 31 / 8 / 7 with a TS of 57% and ORtg/DRtg of 111/110 on a 35.8% usage. That's damn good... He then caught Covid and in his 3rd game in the bubble hurt his quad. From there he missed 8 games, including the 1st 4 playoff games against OKC. Once back, he looked awful both physically and decision making... I'm willing to bit his decline is a bit exaggerated and may be closer to the guy we saw for 35 games in the middle of the season.

2) Draft Pick: I HATE giving up the pick, but lets actually walk through it and see why its a savvy pick/protection. The first year is 2023, which gives us 3 years to make a run and figure out the Beal situation. If every thing breaks right with Beal and our young guys, that pick will be around 20 in the 2023 draft. However, if we make a 1-2 year run with Russ and Beal and the young guys are only rotation worthy, then we will trade Beal and rebuild in which case we probably dont trade the pick until the 2025 draft and still dont think it will be top 12.

3) Pace: While Wall was always a blur in the open court, he was too often content with slowing it down to the half court because of his poor conditioning and his ability to rest on his great vision/ PnR play. Westbrook is ALWAYS running and was actually out of place in Houston when too often they slowed it down.
Russ is an elite rebounder that will allow Rui, Bertans, Deni, and Bryant to get ahead of the defense.
Listen to everything Tommy and Brooks said this offseason. It was about using Pace/speed on offense to help with defense.

4) Attitude: Wall is easily the better PG (Vision, change of pace, and even 3 point shooting), but his work ethic was shaky and you never knew what Wall you were getting on a given night. I cant count how many times over the last 6-8 years we get up for good teams, but lose to dogs. We could of been 3-5 wins better routinely if we were more consistent.
Russ WILL NOT allow that... which leads to my last point.

5) Culture: We have some very impressive young player in both skill set and IQ/work ethic. I think Russ's intensity will be infectious for guys like Bryant, Rui, Brown, Deni, etc.


Again, I still think Wall bounces back... but we really needed a overhaul at the top to allow the culture we've been building through the draft to permeate the entire roster.

I'll say this. Every team is on notice when you play the Wiz. Beal, Russ, Bryant, Lopez, etc.... it may be game 48 on a Tuesday night, but that group is going to come to bust your ass.

Good post. I especially concur with part 1.

Regarding 4 and 5, I wonder if the Wiz were thinking of Jimmy Butler's effects on Miami. But the big difference there is Butler showed a lot of unselfishness last season in Leading Philly. Westbrook has never shown that quality, imo.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
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Re: Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder 

Post#160 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 3, 2020 3:12 pm

FAH1223 wrote:...A lot of people — a lot — who’ve been in D.C. more than 10 minutes, and who have roots here, came to love Wall, what he did for poor people and families in the parts of town many don’t care about. How he was clearly flawed but owned it, how he wore his heart on his sleeve and cried openly — when he signed his max extension, when his mother was sick, when a little girl he’d befriended died. And how he played in the playoffs with a broken hand, and how he led Washington to within a game of the Eastern Conference finals, and jumped on the scorer’s table after winning that Game 6 in 2017 over Boston, and how the crowd roared that night, having a legit contender in town for the first time in God knows how long, and the point guard and the crowd both hoping the night, and the feeling that washed over the building, would never end.

I hope that we can keep this perspective on the Board....

John Wall is a flawed human being. Aren't we all. But not all of us live our lives with a light constantly shined on everything we do.

John Wall is also a complex human being & one who to a large degree exhibits those complexities, a guy who hasn't developed the neutral, self-protective shell of so many public personalities. It's one of the things about him that I find most appealing. Of course, for a sports franchise, this kind of person can present problems. & so John has.

I don't care about that. I don't care about it at all.

I never thought John Wall was as great a player as some people here did (but don't get me wrong: he is definitely a terrific player!), but for a long time it has seemed to me that he is a really great person -- or, I should better say, he is a man with a big soul.

What will the rest of his NBA career be like? Who knows? What interests me is a bigger question: what will the rest of his life be like?

John Wall has the heart and the brain to do big things in this world, positive things. To leave his mark but also & more importantly to make a difference for people, to make a difference in their lives. He's done that already, & no doubt he's done a lot of dumb things too. With every power of my soul that I can muster I hope he keeps traveling that first path. May he prosper in the ways that matter -- to him & to all those he can reach with his wealth & his evident concern for others.

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