Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder

[tontoz]

Having had some time to think about it i think it is a good trade even though i am not a fan of Westbrook. The team had to commit to winning as much as possible now after Beal resigned. It doesn't make sense to resign Beal then do a full rebuild, especially with Wall's contract.

In the weeks before the covid lockdown Westbrook had cut down his 3 pt attempts (54 attempts in 23 games) and his FG% was actually over 50% during that stretch. It should also be noted that is foul shooting last year was 76.3%, over 10% better than the previous season.

He only played 4 bubble games prior to the playoffs.

[Kanyewest]

That conflicts with the reports that Wall demanded a trade after hearing about the talks with Houston. It also conflicts with the recent "no comment" remark by Wall when asked if he had demanded a trade.

I wish somebody could give us the definitive story on WTF happened.

I tend to believe Shams that Wall did demand for a trade on draft night upon hearing about the trade demands.

[DCZards]

...the Zards aren’t interested in starting over and rebuilding. ...they’re intent on keeping BB happy and building around the 27 year old SG…and that means winning sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure that, given the choice, most of us would prefer "winning sooner rather than later."

I don't mean to be ironic -- its' just that the question is... winning what? I can't see how the Wizards are trying to "win" anything in particular. Get more regular season wins? Sure. Be respectable? Absolutely. Fill the seats? You bet. Keep Brad happy (& in a Wizards uni)? Of course.

But, win a title? No. Contending for a title is in conflict with "winning sooner rather than later."

In fact, not only aren't we trying to win a title "sooner rather than later," we're not trying to do that at all.

PIF, how many teams actually "rebuild" from scratch and win a title or even make it to the playoffs...very few. Maybe, GS with Curry & Thompson leading the way. Most so-called rebuilding teams with high draft picks--like Charlotte or Orlando--have been rebuilding FOREVER.

If you become "respectable" and make the playoffs on the strength of two all-NBA players like Beal and Westbrook, the shooting of Bertans, and the development of 2-3 of your youngins, then you stand a good chance of trading for or signing that last piece or two in free agency. Then you get a lot closer to competing for what we all want--a championship.

I disagree that "winning sooner rather than later" conflicts with winning a title.

[Rafael122]

Its hard to believe the local beat writers because they never seem to break any news about this team. Either they know too much and won't say b/c it blows their sources up or they're completely left in the dark. So this thing about John not wanting to leave is a bit suspect.

One guy who seems to be in the know is that Troy Halibur guy, not sure if you guys follow him. Basically Shams is signed to an agency that has some sort of partnership with Klutch. The theory is Shams is plugged in with Klutch so the tweet about Wall wanting out on draft night probably came from Rich Paul's camp.

[AFM]

ECF next year and I’m not even capping
Westbrook Lopez is a powerful duo

[Litano]

After sleeping on this trade and viewing it with a fresh set of eyes, I've come around on it a bit. This is a good basketball move, but it hurts like hell as a long-time fan of the team. Wall has done so much for us over the last decade, even if he's never led the franchise to the promised land. He's made Wizards basketball watcheable, given back to the community, and balled out in some incredible performances that I'll never forget. That said, he's also never provided us the foundation of a consistently contending team, totally backed away from the gang affiliation, or provided reliable effort in the little games between those big ones.

I think John was drafted onto the Wizards during an era where we had a **** locker room culture. He learned what it meant to be an NBA player during that time, and unfortunately never outgrew that mold. None of that would have prevented him from retiring as a Wizard if this injury never happened, but that's not how things played out. Now we have to make moves that make sense for the team's future, and trading Wall and a heavily protected pick for Westbrook is unfortunately one of those moves that makes too much sense to pass up.

There's always been this sense with Wall that he's just one game away from taking a leap to the next level: that his deep shot will settle, that he'll learn to make better moves offball, that he'll find another gear to his engine for the day-in, day-out grind of a season, etc. If you still believe that, then this trade is a mistake. But if you think Wall comes back to the League worse than he was before, or even only as good as he was prior to the injury, then I think this makes a lot of sense.

[doclinkin]

Gotta be honest. Independent of the merits of the trade, I woke up feeling like I lost a family member.

John isn't flawless... but, given where he came from, his growth as a person and his commitment to DC make him one of my all time favorite local players.

As per the trade, we'll see. Westbrook has a lot of mileage on him and his shot isn't getting better. The rumors are that the time off both helped JW revive himself physically, but also to work on his shot.

It wouldn't shock me if JW ends up being the better player, this year. AND we gave up a first round pick.

All in all, I still think the better move would have been to hold firm for now and see what happens.

This is where I am. I think John felt betrayed by Ted talking nice to him on one hand, talking about family etc, and then shopping him after he was seen being indiscreet on video. I think John has been focused on paying back the organization and most importantly the Fans for standing by him through rehab, and while he was grieving, and wanted to show he was worth it. Worth the contract etc. Worth the loyalty and care. I feel like he would have paid back the organization for sticking by him, and been a positive going forward into the future.

As for the pick, this organization out of all cannot afford to burn assets, especially based on some fluffed up outrage that the organization somehow owns players' personal lives off the court. Not all of your fans are angels either. That was in part what makes Wall compelling, as a player and a person. He he often speaks the truth even when he shouldn't. He of all players tries to 'keep it real' even when a mic is stuck in front of his face and he gives a nuanced answer to a question, that then gets taken out of context and turned into "WALL AND BEAL DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER-- News at 11". If being tru tot himself means he still has some friends that might make Ted uncomfortable, man, oh well. Get over it fatboy. Pretty sure there are Wizards fans who make Ted uncomfortable. He walks around talking with fans at hockey games. Does he do so at WIzards games? I haven't seen it...

I think it becomes more and more clear Ted does the opposite. He can say whatever he wants upfront, but all of it is carefully considered to the PR effect it will have, and therefor much of it is verbal fertilizer. If you asked me which I'd rather have as friend and ally between the two -- or "Family" even-- I'd pick Wall. Even if he didn't like you he would tell you straight. Ted. His double bottom line hubris hasn't proven to be a successful strategy when it comes to either building a winning team, or generating fan loyalty.

[doclinkin]

... I thought it was pretty clear this trade was going to happen when Cousins signed with Houston. Wall and him have been talking about playing together forever so wherever he ended up, I assumed Wall would join (or stay)....

Hey! Clever!!!

Did anyone else pick up on that? I sure didn't.

???

It was the first thing I said when they did it. They were trolling and trying to induce John to push for the trade.

[WizarDynasty]

Westbrook is the main reason wall was selected number one overall.

Wizard's need to work on Westbrook hitch and lower back arch before rising into his shot. Should dramatically improve his shooting percentage. Westbrook's handle is also really loose. He doesn't have power in his bounces and it really limits his natural abilities. He doesn't have stamina in his left hand and since he has never had to focus on keeping a power bounce below his knee, he just hasn't improved.
He might be too old to improve. I definitely don't see him being able to do 20 power bounces without his arm getting fatigued and him turning it over. Especially with his off hand. But to close things out, he is a massive upgrade over Wall.

What we lost is a cerebral potential that Wall has. Westbrook loves to put on a show and rarely do we see him dissecting a defense and thinking 3 or 4 seconds ahead against a highly complex playoff defense.
Wall we can see studying film on opponents and instructing his team what they should be doing where as westbrook is going to getting excited about a dunk when his team is 20 points down.
if Leonsis can transform Westbrook into a more cerebral player thinking playoff strategy during the regular season and we see a huge mental transformation in Westbrook, then this is a huge win.
It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
It's possible though that Deni and Beal are enough cerebral for this team though. time will tell.
Westbrook is like a Running Quarterback..Lamar Jackson. sure he is the fastest qb in the league, but a guy who can use his skill and make his team mates more effective usually has a much more productive career.
It's much easier and reliable for your qb to throw for 400 yards 4 touch downs and no interceptions than to run for 100 and pass for 200.
Westbrook turns the ball over and doesn't shoot a high 3 point percentage, and doesn't shoot close to .50 as a number one option.
Those points are what will drown any deep playoff during crunch time. Fortunately we have beal who is a cerebral player and just needs another alpha to help him minimize wear and tear.
I think if Rui and Deni can maintain a .50 or better field goal percentage with Volume, then we have a pretty good future ahead.

[dckingsfan]

But, damn, I LOVE how hard Westbrook plays!

Might be helpful on D?

[TGW]

I still don't understand why they gave up a pick to do this. Wall might be coming off an injury, but he's still younger than Westbrook. The age difference should have been the value difference IMO. A 32 year old Westbrook shouldn't be commanding picks + an established player.

Without the pick, this is a good trade. With the pick involved, it's stupid.

This reeks of Grunfailed.

[dobrojim]

The negativity here is kind of laughable. Westbrook plays harder than anyone in the NBA, and Beal wants him in DC with him. This team will make the playoffs.

Yes he plays very hard. That’s a good thing. He also, at times, plays very
selfishly jacking shots like crazy on a off night. That’s not a good thing.

[MDStar]

I still don't understand why they gave up a pick to do this. Wall might be coming off an injury, but he's still younger than Westbrook. The age difference should have been the value difference IMO. A 32 year old Westbrook shouldn't be commanding picks + an established player.

Without the pick, this is a good trade. With the pick involved, it's stupid.

This reeks of Grunfailed.

Not sure how you came up with that value but in no way could I ever see the Rockets making any type of Westbrook-Wall trade without a pick attached. That two year age difference in no way evens out the downgrade from a flawed but uber -successful, talented, all-nba calibar player to a talented, yet also flawed, nba-allstar caliber player who is coming off a two year hiatus due to two separate Achilles injuries/surgeries. Hell I'm surprised we got it pushed out two seasons with the lottery protections.

Disappointed yes, but I for the life of me can't see why most don't see that this is an major upgrade that most of us would've jumped at 2 seasons ago and that was before Wall's injuries.

[NatP4]

Are people not aware of the history of Achilles injuries???

[TGW]

I still don't understand why they gave up a pick to do this. Wall might be coming off an injury, but he's still younger than Westbrook. The age difference should have been the value difference IMO. A 32 year old Westbrook shouldn't be commanding picks + an established player.

Without the pick, this is a good trade. With the pick involved, it's stupid.

This reeks of Grunfailed.

Not sure how you came up with that value but in no way could I ever see the Rockets making any type of Westbrook-Wall trade without a pick attached. That two year age difference in no way evens out the downgrade from a flawed but uber -successful, talented, all-nba calibar player to a talented, yet also flawed, nba-allstar caliber player who is coming off a two year hiatus due to two separate Achilles injuries/surgeries. Hell I'm surprised we got it pushed out two seasons with the lottery protections.

Disappointed yes, but I for the life of me can't see why most don't see that this is an major upgrade that most of us would've jumped at 2 seasons ago and that was before Wall's injuries.

Yea, two seasons ago. Fine. But this isn't 2018. Westbrook has logged over 4000 minutes in those two years, with career averages trending downward. It's stupid to give up picks for 30+ year olds trending downward in their career.

and just for some more context:

Read on Twitter

[pcbothwel]

I still don't understand why they gave up a pick to do this. Wall might be coming off an injury, but he's still younger than Westbrook. The age difference should have been the value difference IMO. A 32 year old Westbrook shouldn't be commanding picks + an established player.

Without the pick, this is a good trade. With the pick involved, it's stupid.

This reeks of Grunfailed.

Adding in a 2021 pick with top 8 protection would of been Grunfailed... but we are going to play 3 more seasons before a pick in the late teens MIGHT be traded. The protections allow us to NEVER trade a high end asset. We will either compete with Beal in 22-24, in which case we'll be giving up a pick in the late teens in 3 years. Or, it doesnt work out and we trade Beal and rebuild, in which we MIGHT realize the WORST case scenario of the 10th pick of the 2025 draft. Sorry, Im just not going to wrapped around the axel about this.

Westbrook is a better player than Wall. Always has been. Wall is coming off a SERIOUS injury and has had multiple foot and knee injuries over the years. To top it off, Westbrook wants to be here and Beal wants him here.

I've said before, our catch-22 was that we couldnt trade Wall and get better without giving up multiple assets... and we couldnt dump Wall without alienating Beal because we would be downgrading.
We threaded the needle where we moved Wall, improve, and didnt give up any major assets.

Three straight years we heard the Wiz will be trading their 1st, but TS proceeded to draft Brown, Rui, and Deni. It now appears our 21 & 22 1st are safe too. That would be 5 straight 1st that we kept along with Bonga, Winston, Wagner, and Bryant...

Everyone here was appalled when Wall + 9 for Westbrook was floated around... but this is MUCH better.

Again. They had to lock doors on off days in OKC to keep him out of the gym. He is known to be an adult. Ironing his own clothes in college, having a clean/organized locker, and its well known that while some players complained about the bubble like petulant children... Russ was an absolute pro:

Read on Twitter

Only @russwest44 would be able to truly confirm this, and I doubt he will, but I'm told that he left a $8,000 tip for the Grand Floridian housekeepers when the @HoustonRockets left the NBA bubble.

Moreover, I'm told, he left the room virtually spotless.

We Need Adults
Beal is a leader and doesnt play that childish crap, and we have someone who will relate to this.

[nate33]

As for the pick, this organization out of all cannot afford to burn assets, especially based on some fluffed up outrage that the organization somehow owns players' personal lives off the court. Not all of your fans are angels either. That was in part what makes Wall compelling, as a player and a person. He he often speaks the truth even when he shouldn't. He of all players tries to 'keep it real' even when a mic is stuck in front of his face and he gives a nuanced answer to a question, that then gets taken out of context and turned into "WALL AND BEAL DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER-- News at 11". If being tru tot himself means he still has some friends that might make Ted uncomfortable, man, oh well. Get over it fatboy. Pretty sure there are Wizards fans who make Ted uncomfortable. He walks around talking with fans at hockey games. Does he do so at WIzards games? I haven't seen it...

I think it becomes more and more clear Ted does the opposite. He can say whatever he wants upfront, but all of it is carefully considered to the PR effect it will have, and therefor much of it is verbal fertilizer. If you asked me which I'd rather have as friend and ally between the two -- or "Family" even-- I'd pick Wall. Even if he didn't like you he would tell you straight. Ted. His double bottom line hubris hasn't proven to be a successful strategy when it comes to either building a winning team, or generating fan loyalty.

Can't disagree with any of this. Ted is a snake. Always has been. I never believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Though that's probably not all that different from half the owners in this league.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

I know some have already made these points...
I am disappointed to see John leave. He's a Wizard through and through! I was really looking forward to seeing him play with this team, after being out for so long.

However, objectively speaking, this was a good trade for us. Westbrook is better and healthier and apparently, wants to be here. This in turn means that we have a better chance at keeping Beal happy.
Don't get me wrong, I do not like Westbrook's game - his inefficiency and tunnel vision - and was dreading having to trade multiple unprotected picks, when the rumors first surfaced.

The fact that the Wiz pulled off this trade, with a heavily protected 2023 first rd pick, makes this an easy W.
Let's go Wiz! Hope it's a fun season ahead!

[badinage]

...the Zards aren’t interested in starting over and rebuilding. ...they’re intent on keeping BB happy and building around the 27 year old SG…and that means winning sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure that, given the choice, most of us would prefer "winning sooner rather than later."

I don't mean to be ironic -- its' just that the question is... winning what? I can't see how the Wizards are trying to "win" anything in particular. Get more regular season wins? Sure. Be respectable? Absolutely. Fill the seats? You bet. Keep Brad happy (& in a Wizards uni)? Of course.

But, win a title? No. Contending for a title is in conflict with "winning sooner rather than later."

In fact, not only aren't we trying to win a title "sooner rather than later," we're not trying to do that at all.

PIF, how many teams actually "rebuild" from scratch and win a title or even make it to the playoffs...very few. Maybe, GS with Curry & Thompson leading the way. Most so-called rebuilding teams with high draft picks--like Charlotte or Orlando--have been rebuilding FOREVER.

My opinion is if you become "respectable" and make the playoffs on the strength of two all-NBA players like Beal and Westbrook, the shooting of Bertans, and the development of 2-3 of your youngins, then you stand a good chance of trading for and signing that last piece or two in free agency. Then you get a lot closer to competing for what we all desire--a championship.

I disagree that "winning sooner rather than later" conflicts with winning a title.

Ah, but see — this is the platonic ideal of the contemporary BB fan. Not just to be good, or even to be great, but to build a team almost entirely through the draft, hitting on second round picks (which are fetishized), never making a trade for a journeyman, never even taking a stab at a Sheed-to-the-Pistons trade, a put-us-over-the-top trade. No: the build must be clean.

It’s a yearning for purity, and like all yearnings for purity, a romanticization, a fiction. And possibly dangerous.

[nate33]

Adding in a 2021 pick with top 8 protection would of been Grunfailed... but we are going to play 3 more seasons before a pick in the late teens MIGHT be traded. The protections allow us to NEVER trade a high end asset. We will either compete with Beal in 22-24, in which case we'll be giving up a pick in the late teens in 3 years. Or, it doesnt work out and we trade Beal and rebuild, in which we MIGHT realize the WORST case scenario of the 10th pick of the 2025 draft. Sorry, Im just not going to wrapped around the axel about this.

Westbrook is a better player than Wall. Always has been. Wall is coming off a SERIOUS injury and has had multiple foot and knee injuries over the years. To top it off, Westbrook wants to be here and Beal wants him here.

I've said before, our catch-22 was that we couldnt trade Wall and get better without giving up multiple assets... and we couldnt dump Wall without alienating Beal because we would be downgrading.
We threaded the needle where we moved Wall, improve, and didnt give up any major assets.

Three straight years we heard the Wiz will be trading their 1st, but TS proceeded to draft Brown, Rui, and Deni. It now appears our 21 & 22 1st are safe too. That would be 5 straight 1st that we kept along with Bonga, Winston, Wagner, and Bryant...

Everyone here was appalled when Wall + 9 for Westbrook was floated around... but this is MUCH better.

This is the right take. I was apoplectic when they were talking about trading Wall plus the 2021 1st for Westbrook, but this is completely different. It either works out and we end up trading a late 1st, or it doesn't work out and we never trade a first.

As to the age difference, I'm not worried about it. Given their injury history, I'm pretty confident that Westbrook at age 32, 33 and 34 will be at least as effective physically as Wall at age 30, 31 and 32. I'm not a big fan of Westbrook, but I never was a particularly big fan of Wall's game either. Wall always had potential to be a perennial All-NBA player, but never seemed to develop the shooting, the consistency on D, or the ability to play off ball that was necessary. Our enthusiasm for Wall continues to be a belief in the player he theoretically could be, not a belief in the player he actually was. And although he's saying the right things now about working on the weaknesses in his game, I was never all that inclined to believe it.