Woj: Russ to Wizards, Wall to Rockets

[BlazersBroncos]

I actually like this more for Houston. I think Westbrook is toxic at nearly every level and would rather gamble on Wall coming back while getting a FRP than have that cancer on my team.

[HardenToSixers]

Did I say elsewise?

When Houston played its small lineup, Westbrook played some of the best ball of his career. Washington should provide him with similar spacing, if not more so given how deep Bertans can stretch the floor. Is there a reason I cant like this for them?

Yeah his 1.5 BPM in Houston was fantastic

Remind me of Walls BPM last year

And, after the commitment to small ball, Russ averaged 32-8-7 on 57% TS. He was incredible.

what? when did I say anything about John Wall?

[K_chile22]

Protections make this pretty terrible for Houston. Maybe it works out but it's bad process.

What's terrible is that they traded Chris Paul and picks for RW last year and now they're trading the guy and getting another over priced player who's had a lot of injuries and only getting one pick years down the road.

Hopefully for the Rocks Wall comes back to 80% of his former best yrs. Then maybe they don't look like idiots trying to run a basketball team. If Wall gets back near his form this could be ok. But what stinks is those picks they gave to the Thunder for RW.

That's sunk cost, not entirely relevant to this deal. You can't undo that trade with another trade, Russ is already on the team and those picks are gone

[brobitoppin]

I kind of like this deal for the Wiz. Beal is much better of a fit and will at least propel Washington into playoff conversations. I think it's the best surrounding cast, fit-wise, Russ has had as a number 1 guy.

I still think they are at least a few pieces away from actually contending, but this should be a fun season for them.

[K_chile22]

I kind of like this deal for the Wiz. Beal is much better of a fit and will at least propel Washington into playoff conversations. I think it's the best surrounding cast, fit-wise, Russ has had as a number 1 guy.

I still think they are at least a few pieces away from actually contending, but this should be a fun season for them.

If Russ really plays like the number one guy there (which I think he will be because that's cited as part of why he wanted to be moved in the first place) that's bad news for the wizards. He'll be taking possessions away from a much better offensive player. Same issue rockets had when Russ had his good stretch. Offense didn't get any better because he was eating possessions from harden at lower efficiency.
Turning beal into a spot up guy so Russ can dominate the ball is moving backwards

[Wolveswin]

These polls are always silly.

GMs do the trade thinking they are winning their side of the trade.

We vote as if we know more or our opinions are more valid than what reality just showed us.

Time will tell us who won. That is all.

Not really silly.

You are assuming 1) that some organizations aren’t complete dysfunctional and run by buffoons and 2) that cheap owners don’t make bad basketball decisions for luxury tax saving purposes.

Which in my opinion is the sillier stance to take.

Again silly. If a professional GM who is trained, hired, paid and tasked as his full time job to make trades in favor of his club, that is what he does. And doesn’t say yes until he finds a trade he thinks at the time he is winning.

If luxury tax savings are what he is tasked to do by owner and he finds that trade, he is winning that trade when he finds it.

Time will only tell who really wins. Us RGMers have a take and banter, but we don’t know anything for sure.

[brobitoppin]

I kind of like this deal for the Wiz. Beal is much better of a fit and will at least propel Washington into playoff conversations. I think it's the best surrounding cast, fit-wise, Russ has had as a number 1 guy.

I still think they are at least a few pieces away from actually contending, but this should be a fun season for them.

If Russ really plays like the number one guy there (which I think he will be because that's cited as part of why he wanted to be moved in the first place) that's bad news for the wizards. He'll be taking possessions away from a much better offensive player. Same issue rockets had when Russ had his good stretch. Offense didn't get any better because he was eating possessions from harden at lower efficiency.
Turning beal into a spot up guy so Russ can dominate the ball is moving backwards

Over the last two seasons Washington is 57-97, finishing 4th in the division both times. Do you think adding Russ will increase their winning percentage or decrease it?

[K_chile22]

I kind of like this deal for the Wiz. Beal is much better of a fit and will at least propel Washington into playoff conversations. I think it's the best surrounding cast, fit-wise, Russ has had as a number 1 guy.

I still think they are at least a few pieces away from actually contending, but this should be a fun season for them.

If Russ really plays like the number one guy there (which I think he will be because that's cited as part of why he wanted to be moved in the first place) that's bad news for the wizards. He'll be taking possessions away from a much better offensive player. Same issue rockets had when Russ had his good stretch. Offense didn't get any better because he was eating possessions from harden at lower efficiency.
Turning beal into a spot up guy so Russ can dominate the ball is moving backwards

Over the last two seasons Washington is 57-97, finishing 4th in the division both times. Do you think adding Russ will increase their winning percentage or decrease it?

Well that's ignoring that they sent out Wall. If he doesn't play much/is bad then alright, but if he works out it'll look pretty rough for the wizards. But I think making Brad Beal unhappy by turning him into buddy heild is more important than grabbing the 8th seed in the east

[brobitoppin]

If Russ really plays like the number one guy there (which I think he will be because that's cited as part of why he wanted to be moved in the first place) that's bad news for the wizards. He'll be taking possessions away from a much better offensive player. Same issue rockets had when Russ had his good stretch. Offense didn't get any better because he was eating possessions from harden at lower efficiency.
Turning beal into a spot up guy so Russ can dominate the ball is moving backwards

Over the last two seasons Washington is 57-97, finishing 4th in the division both times. Do you think adding Russ will increase their winning percentage or decrease it?

Well that's ignoring that they sent out Wall. If he doesn't play much/is bad then alright, but if he works out it'll look pretty rough for the wizards. But I think making Brad Beal unhappy by turning him into buddy heild is more important than grabbing the 8th seed in the east

Wasn't Beal lobbying for them to bring in Westbrook though?

[K_chile22]

Over the last two seasons Washington is 57-97, finishing 4th in the division both times. Do you think adding Russ will increase their winning percentage or decrease it?

Well that's ignoring that they sent out Wall. If he doesn't play much/is bad then alright, but if he works out it'll look pretty rough for the wizards. But I think making Brad Beal unhappy by turning him into buddy heild is more important than grabbing the 8th seed in the east

Wasn't Beal lobbying for them to bring in Westbrook though?

As was harden

[Xman]

East: Mil, Bos, Miami, Philly and BRK are probably in the playoffs. TOR and Indy were in last year and have not changed much. This deal probably makes WAS the favorite out of the rest.

West will be wild also:
In: LAC, LAL, DEN
Probably Out: OKC, Minny, SAC, SAS
On the bubble, 3-8: Everyone else, Hou, Utah, Dallas, POR, MEM PHX, NO, GS (eight teams competing for five spots)

[gom]

I like the deal for both teams. Westbrook and Beal will be a pretty solid combination. If Bertans gets a lot of open shots (he should), Wizards going to play pretty well. They had to make a move so that Beal would get back into the postseason. He didn't even play in the bubble, right? As for Houston, they needed to do something, and now they can rebuild around Harden or trade him and reset. It's hard to fall so far, so fast, but I was pretty shocked they got a pick back for Westbrook. That Washington was willing to give one up to do the deal is not a great prognosis on the chance for Wall's success. Let's hope for Houston's sake Washington was wrong.

[HardenToSixers]

These polls are always silly.

GMs do the trade thinking they are winning their side of the trade.

We vote as if we know more or our opinions are more valid than what reality just showed us.

Time will tell us who won. That is all.

Not really silly.

You are assuming 1) that some organizations aren’t complete dysfunctional and run by buffoons and 2) that cheap owners don’t make bad basketball decisions for luxury tax saving purposes.

Which in my opinion is the sillier stance to take.

Again silly. If a professional GM who is trained, hired, paid and tasked as his full time job to make trades in favor of his club, that is what he does. And doesn’t say yes until he finds a trade he thinks at the time he is winning.

Time will only tell who really wins. Us RGMers have a take and banter, but we don’t know anything for sure.

Lmao. Will just leave this here.


Not even people who believe in perfectly efficient markets are this naive.

Yes, if your only metric you feel like gauging is “did the GM accomplish what he was trying to accomplish when he made the trade” then sure, the polls are pretty silly. Not really sure why that would be your stance though.

Obviously we don’t know for sure, people are debating what they think. Kinda the purpose of this board. Not sure why you’re so bothered over it.

[SD2042]

For the Rockets, they take the biggest risk in Wall. He hasn't played in two seasons due to his history of injuries. When healthy, Wall is effective offensively and in the passing game. Will he and Harden will workout is another question. Will The Rockets get in the playoffs again will be another question in the wild, wild, west.

As for the Wizards, WB will draw the attention on offense, thus leaving Beal, Bertans, Rui open to take their shots. So offensively this deal would work for the Wizards. As for WB himself, his game is based on high motor athleticism and he's on the wrong side of 30 now. He will have to be smart and perhap find smarter ways to play the game while keeping everyone else involve. Will the Wizards moving to WB puts the Wizards on collison course to the playoffs? Only time will tell once the season commences.

[Wolveswin]

Not really silly.

You are assuming 1) that some organizations aren’t complete dysfunctional and run by buffoons and 2) that cheap owners don’t make bad basketball decisions for luxury tax saving purposes.

Which in my opinion is the sillier stance to take.

Again silly. If a professional GM who is trained, hired, paid and tasked as his full time job to make trades in favor of his club, that is what he does. And doesn’t say yes until he finds a trade he thinks at the time he is winning.

Time will only tell who really wins. Us RGMers have a take and banter, but we don’t know anything for sure.

Lmao. Will just leave this here.


Not even people who believe in perfectly efficient markets are this naive.

Yes, if your only metric you feel like gauging is “did the GM accomplish what he was trying to accomplish when he made the trade” then sure, the polls are pretty silly. Not really sure why that would be your stance though.

Obviously we don’t know for sure, people are debating what they think. Kinda the purpose of this board. Not sure why you’re so bothered over it.

Hmmmm bothered? Use of the word silly leads you to bothered? Ok.

Using hindsight is my point. Some trades age well, some don’t. Many trades at point and time of completion look like team A won, but really in time team B proves winner. And we don’t even know all of the reasons why each team said yes to trade at that moment.

Yes good banter. As I said. Also just silly polls.

[Prospect Dong]

Brodie is going to have driving lanes for days playing with Bertans and Beal. Like this deal a lot for Washington.

I mean, Houston had a certain amount of outside shooting on their roster too...

Did I say elsewise?

When Houston played its small lineup, Westbrook played some of the best ball of his career. Washington should provide him with similar spacing, if not more so given how deep Bertans can stretch the floor. Is there a reason I cant like this for them?

If your takeaway is "Washington can provide similar outside shooting to when he was flourishing in Houston" that's perfectly accurate - though you'll see some Houston fans with a slightly different summary of his contributions - even after they rebuilt their roster to maximise his opportunities.

If its "finally, Westbrook gets to play alongside great shooting and now we're really going to see what he can do", which, honestly, was more how your initial post read to me, then I think that's understating the amount and quality of shooters he had in Houston.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I mean, Houston had a certain amount of outside shooting on their roster too...

Did I say elsewise?

When Houston played its small lineup, Westbrook played some of the best ball of his career. Washington should provide him with similar spacing, if not more so given how deep Bertans can stretch the floor. Is there a reason I cant like this for them?

If your takeaway is "Washington can provide similar outside shooting to when he was flourishing in Houston" that's perfectly accurate - though you'll see some Houston fans with a slightly different summary of his contributions - even after they rebuilt their roster to maximise his opportunities.

If its "finally, Westbrook gets to play alongside great shooting and now we're really going to see what he can do", which, honestly, was more how your initial post read to me, then I think that's understating the amount and quality of shooters he had in Houston.

I guess were gonna do the whole ‘put words in my mouth’ game. Not surprised coming from you.

Here’s my quote:

Brodie is going to have driving lanes for days playing with Bertans and Beal. Like this deal a lot for Washington.

At no point did I invoke Houston nor reference any past situation. I merely stated my liking the trade for Washington a lot as I think its a good fit for Russ. You do you, though— I’m not going to engage any further in your attempt to draw me in a protracted argument over a ridiculous strawman.

[Prospect Dong]

Did I say elsewise?

When Houston played its small lineup, Westbrook played some of the best ball of his career. Washington should provide him with similar spacing, if not more so given how deep Bertans can stretch the floor. Is there a reason I cant like this for them?

If your takeaway is "Washington can provide similar outside shooting to when he was flourishing in Houston" that's perfectly accurate - though you'll see some Houston fans with a slightly different summary of his contributions - even after they rebuilt their roster to maximise his opportunities.

If its "finally, Westbrook gets to play alongside great shooting and now we're really going to see what he can do", which, honestly, was more how your initial post read to me, then I think that's understating the amount and quality of shooters he had in Houston.

I guess were gonna do the whole ‘put words in my mouth’ game. Not surprised coming from you.

Here’s my quote:

Brodie is going to have driving lanes for days playing with Bertans and Beal. Like this deal a lot for Washington.

At no point did I invoke Houston nor reference any past situation. I merely stated my liking the trade for Washington a lot as I think its a good fit for Russ. You do you, though— I’m not going to engage any further in your attempt to draw me in a protracted argument over a ridiculous strawman.

I think you're maybe overreacting a bit here, bud. I say above that our original statement was - to me - ambiguous, and I read it one way - as a comparative claim - while it seems like you meant it another - as an absolute one. The thing you wanted to say was, I've already said, true.

But I also think it's fair to point out that Houston was, during and prior to the Westbrook era, a higher volume outside shooting team than last year's Wiz. So, while they're clearly a good fit for Westbrook, it's not obvious that they're a better fit than the team that just traded him. It sounds like that wasn't what you were interested in, in analysing the deal from Washington's perspective - fine.

But it's still a useful part of the overall context of the deal and how we'd expect Westbrook's performance to change next year. There's no need for you to read it as an attack.