Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Ruzious]

As a followup with Houston, Rui Hachimura and Jerome Robinson (or if you value him less, Moe Wagner) for PJ Tucker and our protected pick back. Gives us a (35 year old) forward who can play some defense and hit a wide open 3 for a young offense only guy who competes for minutes with Deni whose scouting report impresses me more (and we won't find out if he can play unless he gets some time). We try to build a winning culture with Westbrook and Tucker.

Houston trades age for youth; the pick will likely not be top 10 so the current young player should be worth a lot more to them unless they still think they are in win now mode.

I like it

I'm not high on Hachimura but just no. JRob & Moe sure but thats sacrificing alot for a 35 year old 6-6 PF who can go multiple games without making a shot.

Yeah, Tucker's a tough guy, but at 35 - his production is so low that I can't imagine giving up any value for him.

[nate33]

As a followup with Houston, Rui Hachimura and Jerome Robinson (or if you value him less, Moe Wagner) for PJ Tucker and our protected pick back. Gives us a (35 year old) forward who can play some defense and hit a wide open 3 for a young offense only guy who competes for minutes with Deni whose scouting report impresses me more (and we won't find out if he can play unless he gets some time). We try to build a winning culture with Westbrook and Tucker.

Houston trades age for youth; the pick will likely not be top 10 so the current young player should be worth a lot more to them unless they still think they are in win now mode.

Ernie Grunfeld, is that you?

A big fat "no" to this one. The critical mistake the Wizards have made for the past 40 years is going "all in" on "competing for the playoffs" way before they're ready. We end up trading young for old and capping our upside potential because we're too impatient. This is another one of those trades.

Tucker may be better than Hachimura this year, but we are not winning a championship this year. Our window is further down the road, and further down the road, Hachimura will be a much better asset than the corpse of PJ Tucker.

[payitforward]

nate is right -- no point putting bandaids on a corpse.... Don't take something that isn't very good yet & work on giving it better "balance."

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

nate is right -- no point putting bandaids on a corpse.... Don't take something that isn't very good yet & work on giving it better "balance."

Let’s not completely jump all over Penbeast here.

I agree that Tucker is mostly useless to us. What I like is getting back a #1 pick AND getting rid of Jerome Robinson.

I’m just not sold on Rui’s upside.

[Dark Faze]

Wizards 2021 1st round pick, Robin Lopez, Jerome Robinson, and salary filler for Myles Turner at the deadline.

We can get a guy who will turn 25 in March that can rim protect and shoot threes that's locked up on a reasonable contract for another 3 years *without* losing Thomas Bryant.

I don't know that we could expect to get a player with our first round pick that's likely to be better than Myles. I think it turns our center rotation from relatively putrid to suddenly one of the better center rotations in the league.

The only reason I could see hesitation from the Pacers is if they fear the significant impact it would have on their season, but taking a step back this season for a larger reward as early as next year would be smart.

[Ruzious]

Wizards 2021 1st round pick, Robin Lopez, Jerome Robinson, and salary filler for Myles Turner at the deadline.

We can get a guy who will turn 25 in March that can rim protect and shoot threes that's locked up on a reasonable contract for another 3 years *without* losing Thomas Bryant.

I don't know that we could expect to get a player with our first round pick that's likely to be better than Myles. I think it turns our center rotation from relatively putrid to suddenly one of the better center rotations in the league.

The only reason I could see hesitation from the Pacers is if they fear the significant impact it would have on their season, but taking a step back this season for a larger reward as early as next year would be smart.

That's not much of a return for Indiana. And Indy might not want to trade with Washington - as we might be fighting them for a playoffs spot.

[nate33]

nate is right -- no point putting bandaids on a corpse.... Don't take something that isn't very good yet & work on giving it better "balance."

Let’s not completely jump all over Penbeast here.

I agree that Tucker is mostly useless to us. What I like is getting back a #1 pick AND getting rid of Jerome Robinson.

I’m just not sold on Rui’s upside.

Why worry about getting rid of Jerome Robinson? His contract expires this year, and for now, he's useful end-of-bench depth.

So it's really trading Hachimura for a 2023 lotto protected 1st. I just don't understand the Hachimura hate on this board. I think he's going to develop into a good player - not a superstar or anything, but a reliable starter. I wouldn't trade that for a lotto protected 1st 3 years in the future.

[nate33]

Wizards 2021 1st round pick, Robin Lopez, Jerome Robinson, and salary filler for Myles Turner at the deadline.

We can get a guy who will turn 25 in March that can rim protect and shoot threes that's locked up on a reasonable contract for another 3 years *without* losing Thomas Bryant.

I don't know that we could expect to get a player with our first round pick that's likely to be better than Myles. I think it turns our center rotation from relatively putrid to suddenly one of the better center rotations in the league.

The only reason I could see hesitation from the Pacers is if they fear the significant impact it would have on their season, but taking a step back this season for a larger reward as early as next year would be smart.

It's looking like the league has soured on Turner. Maybe it's the poor rebounding. Maybe it's his inability to bang against the bigger centers in the league. But Indiana has been trying to trade him for a starting PF all summer and they can't seem to get any takers. I think that $18M a year deal, while once looking like a pretty good value, suddenly looks a bit pricey since Turner hasn't really improved much in the past 2 years. I think we might be paying an above-market value here.

It's not that I think Turner is a bad player. I happen to think there's a high likelihood that his production has suffered because he is playing out of position and that he'll be much better as a full time center. But I don't want to offer full value for him as if he is producing like he did 2 years ago, if nobody else is.

[prime1time]

nate is right -- no point putting bandaids on a corpse.... Don't take something that isn't very good yet & work on giving it better "balance."

Let’s not completely jump all over Penbeast here.

I agree that Tucker is mostly useless to us. What I like is getting back a #1 pick AND getting rid of Jerome Robinson.

I’m just not sold on Rui’s upside.

So we should trade Rui, a second team all Rookoe player, for a first round pick 3 years from now that more likely than not will end up being a player that’s not on the all rookie team? What do you see as Rui’s upside?

[Ruzious]

nate is right -- no point putting bandaids on a corpse.... Don't take something that isn't very good yet & work on giving it better "balance."

Let’s not completely jump all over Penbeast here.

I agree that Tucker is mostly useless to us. What I like is getting back a #1 pick AND getting rid of Jerome Robinson.

I’m just not sold on Rui’s upside.

Why worry about getting rid of Jerome Robinson? His contract expires this year, and for now, he's useful end-of-bench depth.

So it's really trading Hachimura for a 2023 lotto protected 1st. I just don't understand the Hachimura hate on this board. I think he's going to develop into a good player - not a superstar or anything, but a reliable starter. I wouldn't trade that for a lotto protected 1st 3 years in the future.

Also, obviously Rui has more trade value than that, so even for people like me who aren't real high on Rui - that's a bad trade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Rui isn’t as good as was Larry Stewart, another all-rookie selection who played for the Bullets.

[nate33]

Rui isn’t as good as was Larry Stewart, another all-rookie selection who played for the Bullets.

Stewart was 2 years older as a rookie.

[pcbothwel]

Wizards 2021 1st round pick, Robin Lopez, Jerome Robinson, and salary filler for Myles Turner at the deadline.

We can get a guy who will turn 25 in March that can rim protect and shoot threes that's locked up on a reasonable contract for another 3 years *without* losing Thomas Bryant.

I don't know that we could expect to get a player with our first round pick that's likely to be better than Myles. I think it turns our center rotation from relatively putrid to suddenly one of the better center rotations in the league.

The only reason I could see hesitation from the Pacers is if they fear the significant impact it would have on their season, but taking a step back this season for a larger reward as early as next year would be smart.

It's looking like the league has soured on Turner. Maybe it's the poor rebounding. Maybe it's his inability to bang against the bigger centers in the league. But Indiana has been trying to trade him for a starting PF all summer and they can't seem to get any takers. I think that $18M a year deal, while once looking like a pretty good value, suddenly looks a bit pricey since Turner hasn't really improved much in the past 2 years. I think we might be paying an above-market value here.

It's not that I think Turner is a bad player. I happen to think there's a high likelihood that his production has suffered because he is playing out of position and that he'll be much better as a full time center. But I don't want to offer full value for him as if he is producing like he did 2 years ago, if nobody else is.

I wouldnt touch this trade. Pull out the pick and offer expirings... that's it.
Hell, adding 18M in salary puts us in the tax next year... do we really think Myles Turner is worth that?

You guys complained about a protected pick being traded 4-5 years from now, but are ready to throw a MUCH more valuable pick away for a backup Center?!?

Lets be clear about any trade moving forward:
1) We should NOT trade any 1st now that we traded our 2023/2024 pick.
2) We should be weary of adding any salary for next year as it will most likley take us into the tax and/or keep us from using the Full MLE

I think the Full MLE could bring in a player as good as Turner, and that has to be part of the equation with any trade moving forward. Opportunity Cost.

[Ruzious]

Wizards 2021 1st round pick, Robin Lopez, Jerome Robinson, and salary filler for Myles Turner at the deadline.

We can get a guy who will turn 25 in March that can rim protect and shoot threes that's locked up on a reasonable contract for another 3 years *without* losing Thomas Bryant.

I don't know that we could expect to get a player with our first round pick that's likely to be better than Myles. I think it turns our center rotation from relatively putrid to suddenly one of the better center rotations in the league.

The only reason I could see hesitation from the Pacers is if they fear the significant impact it would have on their season, but taking a step back this season for a larger reward as early as next year would be smart.

It's looking like the league has soured on Turner. Maybe it's the poor rebounding. Maybe it's his inability to bang against the bigger centers in the league. But Indiana has been trying to trade him for a starting PF all summer and they can't seem to get any takers. I think that $18M a year deal, while once looking like a pretty good value, suddenly looks a bit pricey since Turner hasn't really improved much in the past 2 years. I think we might be paying an above-market value here.

It's not that I think Turner is a bad player. I happen to think there's a high likelihood that his production has suffered because he is playing out of position and that he'll be much better as a full time center. But I don't want to offer full value for him as if he is producing like he did 2 years ago, if nobody else is.

I wouldnt touch this trade. Pull out the pick and offer expirings... that's it.
Hell, adding 18M in salary puts us in the tax next year... do we really think Myles Turner is worth that?

You guys complained about a protected pick being traded 4-5 years from now, but are ready to throw a MUCH more valuable pick away for a backup Center?!?

Lets be clear about any trade moving forward:
1) We should NOT trade any 1st now that we traded our 2023/2024 pick.
2) We should be weary of adding any salary for next year as it will most likley take us into the tax and/or keep us from using the Full MLE

I think the Full MLE could bring in a player as good as Turner, and that has to be part of the equation with any trade moving forward. Opportunity Cost.

Good points. And frankly, I don't think either team makes that trade.

[nate33]

Lets be clear about any trade moving forward:
1) We should NOT trade any 1st now that we traded our 2023/2024 pick.
2) We should be weary of adding any salary for next year as it will most likley take us into the tax and/or keep us from using the Full MLE

I think the Full MLE could bring in a player as good as Turner, and that has to be part of the equation with any trade moving forward. Opportunity Cost.

I agree with point #1.

I'm not sure I agree with point #2. The MLE usually only gets you backup-caliber players, and it might be even less useful next summer when so many teams have cap flexibility.

I'm less concerned about the Luxury Tax. The killer is the Repeater Tax and you only pay that if you are in the Luxtax for 3 out of 4 years. We missed the Luxtax last year and this year, so we can pay it during the final two seasons of Westbrook's contract without having to pay the Repeater. Of course, it's easy for me to say this. It's not my money.

[pcbothwel]

Lets be clear about any trade moving forward:
1) We should NOT trade any 1st now that we traded our 2023/2024 pick.
2) We should be weary of adding any salary for next year as it will most likley take us into the tax and/or keep us from using the Full MLE

I think the Full MLE could bring in a player as good as Turner, and that has to be part of the equation with any trade moving forward. Opportunity Cost.

I agree with point #1.

I'm not sure I agree with point #2. The MLE usually only gets you backup-caliber players, and it might be even less useful next summer when so many teams have cap flexibility.

I'm less concerned about the Luxury Tax. The killer is the Repeater Tax and you only pay that if you are in the Luxtax for 3 out of 4 years. We missed the Luxtax last year and this year, so we can pay it during the final two seasons of Westbrook's contract without having to pay the Repeater. Of course, it's easy for me to say this. It's not my money.

Let me clarify.... we are looking at being about 10-11M under the tax with no FA's and no Bonga.
Adding 18M in salary would mean we are 8M ABOVE the tax with no MLE and Bonga a RFA... Pass.

I disagree about the FA Class... there is an incremental increase in demand due to some additional space, but the supply of FA's far outpaces that.
Outside of Drummond & Gobert, Dieng, Zeller, Olynyk, Noel, WCS, Birch, Holmes, Theis, etc. are all FA's, will make the MLE or less, and most are as good or better than Turner

[nate33]

Let me clarify.... we are looking at being about 10-11M under the tax with no FA's and no Bonga.
Adding 18M in salary would mean we are 8M ABOVE the tax with no MLE and Bonga a RFA... Pass.

Good point. I didn't realize the flexibility was that small. And that $10-11M in space assumes that Wagner is waived too.

Going off on a tangent here, if Wagner is cut next summer, we would be in need of a backup center. It would be nice to have a cheap guy on a rookie deal. I wonder if it would be feasible to trade Wagner right now for Xavier Tillman? With Valanciunas and Dieng already on the roster, would Memphis be interested in a stretch big like Wagner as a change of pace guy? Maybe we would need to throw in our late 2nd we obtained in the Cassius Winston trade.

[NatP4]

I’ll throw a wild one out there.

To Washington:
Bazley
Ariza


To OKC:
Hachimura
Smith
Wagner
Robinson

Why? Swapping 2019 1st round picks. Bazley projects as a good 3pt shooter and quality defender, already rebounds better than Hachimura. Ariza is still one of the better 3&D wings in the NBA and makes us better right now. Wagner and Robinson offer potential but I’m selling personally. OKC gets a quality backup PG in Ish Smith, we let the better player have the backup PG spot (Neto) and give more opportunity to Winston. We get ALOT better defensively on the perimeter. Moving Wagner and Robinson could free up some opportunities for Childs and Mathews.

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Brown jr Mathews
Bazley Avdija
Ariza Bertans Gill
Bryant Lopez

Brown Jr Ariza

[Ruzious]

I’ll throw a wild one out there.

To Washington:
Bazley
Ariza


To OKC:
Hachimura
Smith
Wagner
Robinson

Why? Swapping 2019 1st round picks. Bazley projects as a good 3pt shooter and quality defender, already rebounds better than Hachimura. Ariza is still one of the better 3&D wings in the NBA and makes us better right now. Wagner and Robinson offer potential but I’m selling personally. OKC gets a quality backup PG in Ish Smith, we let the better player have the backup PG spot (Neto) and give more opportunity to Winston. We get ALOT better defensively on the perimeter. Moving Wagner and Robinson could free up some opportunities for Childs and Mathews.

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Brown jr Mathews
Bazley Avdija
Ariza Bertans Gill
Bryant Lopez

Brown Jr Ariza

It's not a bad trade - I like Bazley - he really came on at the end of the season and in the playoffs. But there's one reason the Wiz won't consider it: Tommy's first pick ever was Rui at 9. Bazley was picked 23rd. Making that trade would be admitting he screwed up in the 2019 draft.

[nate33]

I’ll throw a wild one out there.

To Washington:
Bazley
Ariza


To OKC:
Hachimura
Smith
Wagner
Robinson

Why? Swapping 2019 1st round picks. Bazley projects as a good 3pt shooter and quality defender, already rebounds better than Hachimura. Ariza is still one of the better 3&D wings in the NBA and makes us better right now. Wagner and Robinson offer potential but I’m selling personally. OKC gets a quality backup PG in Ish Smith, we let the better player have the backup PG spot (Neto) and give more opportunity to Winston. We get ALOT better defensively on the perimeter. Moving Wagner and Robinson could free up some opportunities for Childs and Mathews.

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Brown jr Mathews
Bazley Avdija
Ariza Bertans Gill
Bryant Lopez

Brown Jr Ariza

I haven't seen Bazley play first hand, but statistically, Rui looks quite a bit better. Rui is better in nearly every statistical category except rebounds and posts a much higher PER and WS/48. And he did so while playing against starters, whereas Bazley is a backup.

I still don't get this rapid rush to judgement on Rui. So many on this board seem hell bent on offloading him.

Anyhoo, I like the rest of the deal. I'd love to see us trade Smith, Wagner and Robinson for Ariza. It gives us one good veteran wing defender while freeing up some more minutes for Brown, Winston and Mathews. Though I suppose it would create a big log jam at forward.