Divas, Accountability, Chemistry and the Coaching Challenge

[KL2]

What isn’t discussed enough is how a “rat” isn’t a good example of leadership either. Those guys might want to take a look in the mirror before throwing stones.

[og15]

The problem with the article is the title and the fact all of the "positive" fluff isnt until the end of the article

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets. Of course the problem happens in that many people don't take the time to read the full article, I won't blame the writer for that aspect.

Whatever the reasons and whatever the behind the scenes stuff, we know there were chemistry problems, we know there was friction, we know that there were issues with Doc's coaching style and philosophy in relation to the roster. If this team can't handle an article like this coming out about them, it is actually just another sign that they aren't at the level they need to be. Articles like this should actually strengthen them to prove people wrong, etc, if it makes you crumble, you don't have it.

In terms of leadership, it's going to be something needed. I think we should all be quite clear that Kawhi is not a leader. Leading by example in terms of your play on the court is important, it is good, but teams also need vocal leaders, and by vocal, I don't mean loud. Kawhi based on what we know, and likely what will continue simply isn't a vocal leader, and isn't a get guys to rally around me type person, that's okay, not every player is. Does it help if your best player is that guy? Yes, but you can survive without it, but it means you need to get more of that from other guys and from coaching.

Paul George is not that guy even if he tries to be, he doesn't have the type of respect needed to be that guy, so no one is going to be expecting that from him. This means it's going to have to be one of the role players and the coaching will have to enter into that role more than might be needed in a different situation. Let's hope they can pull it together and figure it out.

[MarxyLebronist]

It must pain the Doc fans a lot.

It's hard to imagine there could be any of those after all he's gotten wrong.
It was so painful to watch him do nothing in the playoffs- no one could be surprised by a player saying what we all were already saying very loudly anyway lol.

[MarxyLebronist]

The problem with the article is the title and the fact all of the "positive" fluff isnt until the end of the article

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets.

All the more reason to give stock answers, if any, and focus on the on-court work, not the PR wars.
Folks asking questions and employing those who do desperately need clicks and intrigue, period.
It's a mess, and gambling narratives/speculation aren't helping at all. But as they say, it's a business.
Go about yours, skip the fluff sideshows. Legacies of excellence can stand the test of time and rise above year-to-year popularity contests, contract squabbles, and the like. Players demonized by a generation of media folks are looked at much differently years later.

[esqtvd]

The problem with the article is the title and the fact all of the "positive" fluff isnt until the end of the article

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets. Of course the problem happens in that many people don't take the time to read the full article, I won't blame the writer for that aspect.

Whatever the reasons and whatever the behind the scenes stuff, we know there were chemistry problems, we know there was friction, we know that there were issues with Doc's coaching style and philosophy in relation to the roster. If this team can't handle an article like this coming out about them, it is actually just another sign that they aren't at the level they need to be. Articles like this should actually strengthen them to prove people wrong, etc, if it makes you crumble, you don't have it.

In terms of leadership, it's going to be something needed. I think we should all be quite clear that Kawhi is not a leader. Leading by example in terms of your play on the court is important, it is good, but teams also need vocal leaders, and by vocal, I don't mean loud. Kawhi based on what we know, and likely what will continue simply isn't a vocal leader, and isn't a get guys to rally around me type person, that's okay, not every player is. Does it help if your best player is that guy? Yes, but you can survive without it, but it means you need to get more of that from other guys and from coaching.

Paul George is not that guy even if he tries to be, he doesn't have the type of respect needed to be that guy, so no one is going to be expecting that from him. This means it's going to have to be one of the role players and the coaching will have to enter into that role more than might be needed in a different situation. Let's hope they can pull it together and figure it out.

Let's be honest though--Kawhi wasn't just a zero in the leadership department--by taking special privileges, he was a net negative on team chemistry. And we see what a copout artist PG is--still complaining he didn't get his pick'n'rolls when the stats say he got the most PNRs in his career.

People can call Trezz a rat but he was very public in January about the two-tiered star system that was IMPOSED on a team that had already developed a winning culture and even beat GSW a couple games in the playoffs with NO STARS.

Together, Kawhi and PG did LESS than nothing for team chemistry. And to this day, neither one has copped to the stench of Game 7 that maybe it was THEIR fault a little...?

BTW, this part of Jovan's article hasn't got ANY play. The poor chemistry went from top to bottom.

Marcus Morris Sr., whom the Clippers acquired at the February 2020 trade deadline, entered the locker room with the intent of asserting himself as a leader after pacing the New York Knicks in scoring. He quickly became one of the team’s louder voices.

While league sources say Morris had good intentions with teammates, and was trying to step into the clear leadership void that he had observed when he joined the team, Morris’ advice for his new teammates didn’t always go over well.

“You don’t want to be the guy that just shows up and starts telling people what to do,” one league source said.

Center Ivica Zubac and Morris had several heated arguments early in Morris’ tenure, according to league sources, with Zubac essentially saying, “Why are you telling me to change what I’m doing after I’ve been doing it successfully all season?”

The ongoing adjustment and power dynamic between the stars and the role players prevented other Clippers from stepping up, creating a vacuum that was never filled — one that played a part in the team’s eventual collapse.

[MarxyLebronist]

It's weird seeing the players run down like this in their own team forum. I'm not a Clippers fan first, but I'm not here bashing on them either. Seems like a bad sign that the new media nerd narrative games have gone far enough.

[esqtvd]

It's weird seeing the players run down like this in their own team forum. I'm not a Clippers fan first, but I'm not here bashing on them either. Seems like a bad sign that the new media nerd narrative games have gone far enough.

I've been a Clipper diehard since they arrived in LA in 1984. This is different.

The imposition of Kawhi and PG upon a rebuilding but competitive team--that we all really liked--is almost without equal in sports history. Kawhi and PG have done nothing to win my loyalty and affection--in fact to the contrary, as Jovan reports. And they quit like dogs in Game 7 in the worst 2-man performance in NBA playoff history.

Neither am I going to invest any trust or admiration in them until they sign on the dotted line to stay longer than just dipping their toes in the water here. And they can start by leading this team instead of treating it as a hobby. I'm so disgusted by them that I'm going to say something nice about the Lakers for the first time in my life.

THIS is what we thought we were getting.

“Yes, I thought that it was very good for me to see that, you know for one, I’ve been in that situation multiple times, going to a team that has another star,” Howard said. “ … Playing alongside other stars, sometimes it can be difficult because you want to be that guy, and watching AD and LeBron was like everything they did was together.

...

“Once you are willing to give yourself up, great things can happen,” he said. ‘I watched that with LeBron. Even though there were games LeBron was having triple-doubles, he made sure he fed AD and AD got off.”

The championship mentality of both players left an impression on Howard.

“When you have two guys like that who are willing to do whatever it takes to win, it kind of brings up the morale of the team,” Howard said. “I can see that in Ben and Jo, those two guys coming together and putting aside any ego, pride, anything and saying, ‘Hey, we are both here for one mission and that’s to win a championship and it starts and finishes with us, too.’ And I saw that with LeBron and AD, — they put everything on their shoulders.”

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-center-dwight-howard-has-great-belief-that-joel-embiid-and-ben-simmons-can-lead-the-team-to-championships-20201203.html

[og15]

The problem with the article is the title and the fact all of the "positive" fluff isnt until the end of the article

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets.

All the more reason to give stock answers, if any, and focus on the on-court work, not the PR wars.
Folks asking questions and employing those who do desperately need clicks and intrigue, period.
It's a mess, and gambling narratives/speculation aren't helping at all. But as they say, it's a business.
Go about yours, skip the fluff sideshows. Legacies of excellence can stand the test of time and rise above year-to-year popularity contests, contract squabbles, and the like. Players demonized by a generation of media folks are looked at much differently years later.

Stock answers are definitely the way to go, but sometimes players have agendas, which can change things. Some guys are better than others at tuning out the noise, but articles don't define a team, all that matters is what you do on the court.

[MarxyLebronist]

It's weird seeing the players run down like this in their own team forum. I'm not a Clippers fan first, but I'm not here bashing on them either. Seems like a bad sign that the new media nerd narrative games have gone far enough.

I've been a Clipper diehard since they arrived in LA in 1984. This is different.

The imposition of Kawhi and PG upon a rebuilding but competitive team--that we all really liked--is almost without equal in sports history.

I loved the Chris Paul team and had really high hopes. Admittedly, I didn't see why George was the player to add for a Kawhi team- they play the same position after all. But George had been excellent, too, in less visible settings. Agree that they need to bring the play now. But come on- Rivers was clearly out of ideas and did nothing. Now, if the team is prepping up a George move here and getting the narrative set in place, that's another story entirely. To that end...

Leonard is excellent and I adore his strong approach to player prerogative.
The recent decades of ownership collusion against player movement and voice has been such a travesty after the league was a powerful space for Blackness to thrive and express itself and be related to, and that's not to discount its incredible international appeal and player history at all. Admittedly, this dates me in line with the wardrobe and headphones rules Stern marshaled for an even more conservative ownership base that was just starting to flex its spreadsheet and contract muscle against those dumb players (green font, as they say- the players are so bright and creative and getting stronger and stronger about the legalities they're confined to for the almost all white billionaires club calling the shots).

Now, if only the salary cap idiocy and arena development politics could be taken out of the team construction and player commitment dynamics. I'm interested in a new approach to player team management/collective leadership (not the Jordan team ownership model lol) and have high hopes for, precisely, the two LA teams to lead the way in some transitional years before that's a reality.

[MarxyLebronist]

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets.

All the more reason to give stock answers, if any, and focus on the on-court work, not the PR wars.
Folks asking questions and employing those who do desperately need clicks and intrigue, period.
It's a mess, and gambling narratives/speculation aren't helping at all. But as they say, it's a business.
Go about yours, skip the fluff sideshows. Legacies of excellence can stand the test of time and rise above year-to-year popularity contests, contract squabbles, and the like. Players demonized by a generation of media folks are looked at much differently years later.

Stock answers are definitely the way to go, but sometimes players have agendas, which can change things. Some guys are better than others at tuning out the noise, but articles don't define a team, all that matters is what you do on the court.

The Agenda Era can't end soon enough. Agree completely with you and my prior interlocutor and all: get it done on the court and everything else is moot.

[esqtvd]

It's weird seeing the players run down like this in their own team forum. I'm not a Clippers fan first, but I'm not here bashing on them either. Seems like a bad sign that the new media nerd narrative games have gone far enough.

I've been a Clipper diehard since they arrived in LA in 1984. This is different.

The imposition of Kawhi and PG upon a rebuilding but competitive team--that we all really liked--is almost without equal in sports history.

I loved the Chris Paul team and had really high hopes. Admittedly, I didn't see why George was the player to add for a Kawhi team- they play the same position after all. But George had been excellent, too, in less visible settings. Agree that they need to bring the play now. But come on- Rivers was clearly out of ideas and did nothing. Now, if the team is prepping up a George move here and getting the narrative set in place, that's another story entirely. To that end...

Leonard is excellent and I adore his strong approach to player prerogative.
The recent decades of ownership collusion against player movement and voice has been such a travesty after the league was a powerful space for Blackness to thrive and express itself and be related to, and that's not to discount its incredible international appeal and player history at all. Admittedly, this dates me in line with the wardrobe and headphones rules Stern marshaled for an even more conservative ownership base that was just starting to flex its spreadsheet and contract muscle against those dumb players (green font, as they say- the players are so bright and creative and getting stronger and stronger about the legalities they're confined to for the almost all white billionaires club calling the shots).

Now, if only the salary cap idiocy and arena development politics could be taken out of the team construction and player commitment dynamics. I'm interested in a new approach to player team management/collective leadership (not the Jordan team ownership model lol) and have high hopes for, precisely, the two LA teams to lead the way in some transitional years before that's a reality.

Thanks for the lesson in 20th century Marxism but I think you need to update your software. I see white billionaires and black millionaires all doing whatever the prevailing media culture demands and whatever turns a buck, and splitting it more or less 50-50. There has never been such social and economic unity anytime in professional sports!

As for the Clippers, as a Lakers fan you wouldn't understand. But Kawhi and PG's cowardice under fire and LeBron and AD's achievement despite it all has robbed me of my 2nd favorite thing--putting on the Laker game and cheering for whoever they're playing.

The b*stards.

[MarxyLebronist]

Would love to see the Clippers be as good as they should be, definitely.

I never claimed to be a Lakers fan of the sort you think here, but that's ok and there were some moments I was wondering what they thought they were doing with Kuzma in pressure situations, for example. The bubble Lakers had some dramatic shut downs at times that really made one worry about their attention to detail and planning. They made some excellent fixes to their specific deficiencies with Schröder, Matthews, and Harrell, whatever a "true" Clippers fan might say about Harrell. Was very disappointed not to see the Clippers hold it together and I despise Denver lol. And I absolutely was never a Cleveland fan outside wanting to see Lebron get one for that poor city (some of my best friends are from Cleveland, lol). Happy to see that lame owner lose his shirt if at all possible, after his subprime parasitism and Comic Sans silliness.

Splitting profits is the least that should happen when the players are the draw and the labor of real consequence for a visibility/hype-based entertainment product, but that's also admitting that in fact the entire non-athletics infrastructure depends upon parasitical entertainment industry machinery to justify its existence (to say nothing of gambling economies). There are very few nonprofit pro sports leagues out there, ha. Especially interested in new configurations in such a strange time of arena infrastructure being moot relative to the standard, organized property development design blueprint followed time after time as the league seeks out ownerships who will work local legislatures for new arenas and major refurbishments to avoid the team relocation plague it's always trying to recover from (see: Minnesota, idiotic restriction on selling to an ownership group that might move them). But a talented athletic training staff, all the ticket sales and arena staff, and pretty much everyone laid off already by the teams' big money ownerships in so many cities are the folks I'm with completely. They're often huge fans, themselves, and love their teams just like you do.

[esqtvd]

Would love to see the Clippers be as good as they should be, definitely.

I never claimed to be a Lakers fan of the sort you think here, but that's ok and there were some moments I was wondering what they thought they were doing with Kuzma in pressure situations, for example. The bubble Lakers had some dramatic shut downs at times that really made one worry about their attention to detail and planning. They made some excellent fixes to their specific deficiencies with Schröder, Matthews, and Harrell, whatever a "true" Clippers fan might say about Harrell. Was very disappointed not to see the Clippers hold it together and I despise Denver lol. And I absolutely was never a Cleveland fan outside wanting to see Lebron get one for that poor city (some of my best friends are from Cleveland, lol). Happy to see that lame owner lose his shirt if at all possible, after his subprime parasitism and Comic Sans silliness.

Splitting profits is the least that should happen when the players are the draw and the labor of real consequence for a visibility/hype-based entertainment product, but that's also admitting that in fact the entire non-athletics infrastructure depends upon parasitical entertainment industry machinery to justify its existence (to say nothing of gambling economies). There are very few nonprofit pro sports leagues out there, ha. Especially interested in new configurations in such a strange time of arena infrastructure being moot relative to the standard, organized property development design blueprint followed time after time as the league seeks out ownerships who will work local legislatures for new arenas and major refurbishments to avoid the team relocation plague it's always trying to recover from (see: Minnesota, idiotic restriction on selling to an ownership group that might move them). But a talented athletic training staff, all the ticket sales and arena staff, and pretty much everyone laid off already by the teams' big money ownerships in so many cities are the folks I'm with completely. They're often huge fans, themselves, and love their teams just like you do.

Not much difference between inheriting money or inheriting athletic talent. In the end you grow it or blow it. There are lame owners and many many more lame athletes, all of who walked away with undeserved millions. Such is life.

I was never angry at CP3 or Blake or any of the rest for failing. I think some could have tried harder to make themselves better players but they never quit on me or on each other.


If CP3, Blake, DJ, JJ and Jamal and the rest of Lob City were 29 again and had the chance to get back together tomorrow, they all would. And that's the difference about how I felt then and how I feel today. I don't know if any of these current guys will be here at the All-Star break--even Kawhi.

[MarxyLebronist]

Doesn't compute: He's not leaving the area, Clippers aren't moving back to SD, Lakers have no room, and he's not retiring. Article's entire effort to shame the players isn't what will lead to their commitment or to team success, and hopefully it's all done with by next week so more substantive things can be the focus.

[esqtvd]

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets.

All the more reason to give stock answers, if any, and focus on the on-court work, not the PR wars.
Folks asking questions and employing those who do desperately need clicks and intrigue, period.
It's a mess, and gambling narratives/speculation aren't helping at all. But as they say, it's a business.
Go about yours, skip the fluff sideshows. Legacies of excellence can stand the test of time and rise above year-to-year popularity contests, contract squabbles, and the like. Players demonized by a generation of media folks are looked at much differently years later.

Stock answers are definitely the way to go, but sometimes players have agendas, which can change things. Some guys are better than others at tuning out the noise, but articles don't define a team, all that matters is what you do on the court.

All that matters is money. And I say this unsarcastically. What I mean is all that matters is how many people give a sh*t.

Boxing was big but Ali made it the most important sport on the planet. Same with Jordan. Stock answers don't put asses in the seats--and neither does mere athletic excellence. Hardcore fans will go out of their way to see Kawhi Leonard play but nobody else will.

When you have an actual personality, it's good for business. Magic and Bird saved the NBA. Jordan took it to heights never seen before or since. Yes, it would have meant nothing without their athletic excellence, but steak without sizzle is just roast beef.

Larry Holmes. You're old enough to know what I'm sayin'...

[esqtvd]

Doesn't compute: He's not leaving the area, Clippers aren't moving back to SD, Lakers have no room, and he's not retiring. Article's entire effort to shame the players isn't what will lead to their commitment or to team success, and hopefully it's all done with by next week so more substantive things can be the focus.

COMPUTE: Talking Stick Arena, by private plane or even Southwest Airlines. Door-to-door, almost the same as Staples from SD [Kawhi] or Lancaster [PG]. I did the flight/drive times in a previous post...




Betcha. Come 2021, one or the other will be there, not here. And don't be surprised if it's Kawhi. And thanks for asking. But I do not believe.

[Captain Ballmer]

The problem with the article is the title and the fact all of the "positive" fluff isnt until the end of the article

Titles are meant to get clicks, views, reads, watches, etc. Depending on the media organization, many writers don't even get to choose the title of their articles, it is done by an editor for example. I don't know how the athletic organization works, but that is a common set up in media outlets. Of course the problem happens in that many people don't take the time to read the full article, I won't blame the writer for that aspect.

Whatever the reasons and whatever the behind the scenes stuff, we know there were chemistry problems, we know there was friction, we know that there were issues with Doc's coaching style and philosophy in relation to the roster. If this team can't handle an article like this coming out about them, it is actually just another sign that they aren't at the level they need to be. Articles like this should actually strengthen them to prove people wrong, etc, if it makes you crumble, you don't have it.

In terms of leadership, it's going to be something needed. I think we should all be quite clear that Kawhi is not a leader. Leading by example in terms of your play on the court is important, it is good, but teams also need vocal leaders, and by vocal, I don't mean loud. Kawhi based on what we know, and likely what will continue simply isn't a vocal leader, and isn't a get guys to rally around me type person, that's okay, not every player is. Does it help if your best player is that guy? Yes, but you can survive without it, but it means you need to get more of that from other guys and from coaching.

Paul George is not that guy even if he tries to be, he doesn't have the type of respect needed to be that guy, so no one is going to be expecting that from him. This means it's going to have to be one of the role players and the coaching will have to enter into that role more than might be needed in a different situation. Let's hope they can pull it together and figure it out.

That was Patrick Beverley's job to do. Longest tenured Clipper...
He is right there with PG among most dissappointing Clippers.

[Quake Griffin]

When you sign with the Yankees, you go and you become a part of Yankee culture. You shave your beard and are clean cut when performing. If you are a little pudgy, you get your ass in shape etc. etc. They are the New York Yankees, not the New York Jason Giambis or the New York A-Rods.

The Clippers problem is they gave Kawhi the keys to their franchise while he was still in Canada and told him it was his to do whatever he wanted with it. That was the perfect time to set standards, demonstrate that there is a "Clipper Way," and invite him to be a part of building more of that and expanding it.

Instead, $50k tampering fines. Media leaks etc. etc.
What TF did you think was gonna happen? You thought he was gonna give away privileges?


This starts at the top of the organization for our foolish ways in pursuing these two. Then it gets to Doc, who couldn't run a lemonade stand.

Maybe this little dose of humility will make everybody re-evaluate what they're doing but, mostly, have the people up top NEVER EVER EVER show as much weakness and desperation as we did while the braided one was in Toronto. IDC if we have no rings, 2nd to worst regular season win percentage of all time, and haven't been to the CF. We are the Clippers. We have a good owner, good people in our org, and tons of assets. If the rest of the world won't view us as first class citizens, we can at least do it ourselves.

This goes for the lame fans here as well who never held this team or this FO accountable. You get exactly what you demand. Happy all the "Shutup and just enjoy this championship" panned out for ya. Or the "shutup and enjoy the best season in Clipper history" flow. How did that pan out?

[NickP]

When you sign with the Yankees, you go and you become a part of Yankee culture. You shave your beard and are clean cut when performing. If you are a little pudgy, you get your ass in shape etc. etc. They are the New York Yankees, not the New York Jason Giambis or the New York A-Rods.

The Clippers problem is they gave Kawhi the keys to their franchise while he was still in Canada and told him it was his to do whatever he wanted with it. That was the perfect time to set standards, demonstrate that there is a "Clipper Way," and invite him to be a part of building more of that and expanding it.

Instead, $50k tampering fines. Media leaks etc. etc.
What TF did you think was gonna happen? You thought he was gonna give away privileges?


This starts at the top of the organization for our foolish ways in pursuing these two. Then it gets to Doc, who couldn't run a lemonade stand.

Maybe this little dose of humility will make everybody re-evaluate what they're doing but, mostly, have the people up top NEVER EVER EVER show as much weakness and desperation as we did while the braided one was in Toronto. IDC if we have no rings, 2nd to worst regular season win percentage of all time, and haven't been to the CF. We are the Clippers. We have a good owner, good people in our org, and tons of assets. If the rest of the world won't view us as first class citizens, we can at least do it ourselves.

This goes for the lame fans here as well who never held this team or this FO accountable. You get exactly what you demand. Happy all the "Shutup and just enjoy this championship" panned out for ya. Or the "shutup and enjoy the best season in Clipper history" flow. How did that pan out?

I agree with your overall sentiment bro but I don't think there's ever a right time to give the keys to a guy like Kawhi. When we signed him he was considered the best player in the league. We also knew he was not your typical leader. But if Kawhi canceled practices or didn't show up then it's on him.
But every team has their own Diva and every team handles their internal strifes differently.
All this should be meaningless when Kawhi and PG are hoisting that trophy next year.
Until then we have to deal with this noise.

[TheNewEra]

I’m fine with stars having perks and everyone on the team should have personal trainers