Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

[Nyce_1]

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[fendilim]

I guess more opportunities for Cole

[basketballRob]

Watch Melvin Frazier become a 10 yr pro in OKC.

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Frazier was cut from OKC either last night or this morning.

I've only seen where he was getting 1.6m this year in OKC.

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[Nyce_1]

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[JBSouthpaw]

Watch Melvin Frazier become a 10 yr pro in OKC.

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Frazier was cut from OKC either last night or this morning.

I've only seen where he was getting 1.6m this year in OKC.

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[basketballRob]

Frazier was cut from OKC either last night or this morning.

I've only seen where he was getting 1.6m this year in OKC.

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Read on Twitter

Wow, that didn't take long.

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[pepe1991]

I've only seen where he was getting 1.6m this year in OKC.

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Wow, that didn't take long.

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Looks like yet another good Clifford evaluation of "talent".
He was just cut off worst nba roster.

#ChinaBound

[Gomagic44]

In a 10 year time span? Yes.

The point is to win it all or try.

Is this really the only point? I feel this assumption is why there is so much agitation around the Magic and most of sports. I don't believe this belief is universally shared. I know I don't subscribe to it.

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[thelead]

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Wow, that didn't take long.

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Looks like yet another good Clifford evaluation of "talent".
He was just cut off worst nba roster.

#ChinaBound

It took them 2 days to figure out what most here learned after a few games. He is not an NBA level talent and his attitude isn't great either. Good luck with that combo.

Why did we keep him here for as long as we did?

[Furinkazan]

I guess more opportunities for Cole

We all know Bacon would get Ross minutes

[pepe1991]

Is there any reason why we don't even try for guys like Korver ? i don't care if he is 46, guy has to have amazing work ethic to stay in shape so late in this career and be one of best pure shooters for almost 2 decades.

[Nyce_1]

I've only seen where he was getting 1.6m this year in OKC.

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Wow, that didn't take long.

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and we held on to his bum ass for 2 years.

it took them 2 days to realize he was trash.

[Bensational]

lol

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This **** is hilarious. Clifford is on PR campaign to justify his exclusion of Bamba from the rotation and lionizing Birch is just a part of that.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*birch

You have to scroll down to Birch/Bamba to find a lineup with a positive net rating. Bamba was the only player in the rotation with whom Birch had a positive net rating. Isn't that a wonderful example of irony?

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*bamba

Bamba is Clifford's whipping boy. There will never be peace in the Middle East for as long as Bamba is slow on his rotations and lacking effort.

If I were running this organization, I'd call Clifford into my office for a clarification session. If he doesn't like it, he can start working on his resume. Of course, this will never happen as ours is the clearest example of a rudderless ship as you will find in the NBA.

And shame on the people in this thread that are invoking the names of Malone, Popovich, and Spoestra to defend Clifford. Clifford has won nothing, the young guys never touch the ball, and nobody under his tutelage ever improves. How on earth can you compare him to a group of coaches that will end up in the Hall of Fame?

You're right in that Cliff won't develop talent by expanding their games. He just gets them to a safe bare minimum. Unless a player already has skill, Cliff won't be getting it out of them.

That said, I think it's fair to question Mo's attitude and work ethic. There's a huge disconnect between him and coaching/management it seems, and he appears to have been doing some things of his own accord (like bulking up). For a guy with his GPA I'd have hoped to see him become smarter on the court and adjust to rotations faster. It really shouldn't be hard for Mo to watch Birch, see what best doing that Cliff loves and to go replicate it. But Mo still sets terrible screens, and chooses to chase highlight reel recovery blocks instead of fundamental box outs, etc. Personally, he seems like the kind of young talent I'd hate to work with in my field - tantalising potential but his own ego and self entitlement gets in the way. For someone being paid as well as he is, his performance hasn't been professional enough for my liking.

That said, I hope this is all just the uncomfortable part of breaking through that and motivating him.

[j-ragg]

Is there any reason why we don't even try for guys like Korver ? i don't care if he is 46, guy has to have amazing work ethic to stay in shape so late in this career and be one of best pure shooters for almost 2 decades.

I don’t care if it’s Korver but I’m surprised we don’t really ever go after an older minimum ish “vet” that is known for being a good locker room guy. Doesn’t need to play in games to make an impact type of player. I’ve always heard that about guys like Korver, Tolliver, Dudley, Haslem (not that he’s ever available).

[Ducklett]

lol

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This **** is hilarious. Clifford is on PR campaign to justify his exclusion of Bamba from the rotation and lionizing Birch is just a part of that.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*birch

You have to scroll down to Birch/Bamba to find a lineup with a positive net rating. Bamba was the only player in the rotation with whom Birch had a positive net rating. Isn't that a wonderful example of irony?

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*bamba

Bamba is Clifford's whipping boy. There will never be peace in the Middle East for as long as Bamba is slow on his rotations and lacking effort.

If I were running this organization, I'd call Clifford into my office for a clarification session. If he doesn't like it, he can start working on his resume. Of course, this will never happen as ours is the clearest example of a rudderless ship as you will find in the NBA.

And shame on the people in this thread that are invoking the names of Malone, Popovich, and Spoestra to defend Clifford. Clifford has won nothing, the young guys never touch the ball, and nobody under his tutelage ever improves. How on earth can you compare him to a group of coaches that will end up in the Hall of Fame?

You're right in that Cliff won't develop talent by expanding their games. He just gets them to a safe bare minimum. Unless a player already has skill, Cliff won't be getting it out of them.

That said, I think it's fair to question Mo's attitude and work ethic. There's a huge disconnect between him and coaching/management it seems, and he appears to have been doing some things of his own accord (like bulking up). For a guy with his GPA I'd have hoped to see him become smarter on the court and adjust to rotations faster. It really shouldn't be hard for Mo to watch Birch, see what best doing that Cliff loves and to go replicate it. But Mo still sets terrible screens, and chooses to chase highlight reel recovery blocks instead of fundamental box outs, etc. Personally, he seems like the kind of young talent I'd hate to work with in my field - tantalising potential but his own ego and self entitlement gets in the way. For someone being paid as well as he is, his performance hasn't been professional enough for my liking.

That said, I hope this is all just the uncomfortable part of breaking through that and motivating him.

Before he bulked up, everyone on here and our city's sport writers complained that he needed to bulk up. You don't think that the ORG was like "Hey bro, stay really skinny and frail so you get pushed around in the paint" and he was like "Nah man I am going to get Big Baby Fat and dominate the paint"? This is getting pretty ridiculous.

[yoyojw17]

This **** is hilarious. Clifford is on PR campaign to justify his exclusion of Bamba from the rotation and lionizing Birch is just a part of that.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*birch

You have to scroll down to Birch/Bamba to find a lineup with a positive net rating. Bamba was the only player in the rotation with whom Birch had a positive net rating. Isn't that a wonderful example of irony?

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*bamba

Bamba is Clifford's whipping boy. There will never be peace in the Middle East for as long as Bamba is slow on his rotations and lacking effort.

If I were running this organization, I'd call Clifford into my office for a clarification session. If he doesn't like it, he can start working on his resume. Of course, this will never happen as ours is the clearest example of a rudderless ship as you will find in the NBA.

And shame on the people in this thread that are invoking the names of Malone, Popovich, and Spoestra to defend Clifford. Clifford has won nothing, the young guys never touch the ball, and nobody under his tutelage ever improves. How on earth can you compare him to a group of coaches that will end up in the Hall of Fame?

You're right in that Cliff won't develop talent by expanding their games. He just gets them to a safe bare minimum. Unless a player already has skill, Cliff won't be getting it out of them.

That said, I think it's fair to question Mo's attitude and work ethic. There's a huge disconnect between him and coaching/management it seems, and he appears to have been doing some things of his own accord (like bulking up). For a guy with his GPA I'd have hoped to see him become smarter on the court and adjust to rotations faster. It really shouldn't be hard for Mo to watch Birch, see what best doing that Cliff loves and to go replicate it. But Mo still sets terrible screens, and chooses to chase highlight reel recovery blocks instead of fundamental box outs, etc. Personally, he seems like the kind of young talent I'd hate to work with in my field - tantalising potential but his own ego and self entitlement gets in the way. For someone being paid as well as he is, his performance hasn't been professional enough for my liking.

That said, I hope this is all just the uncomfortable part of breaking through that and motivating him.

Before he bulked up, everyone on here and our city's sport writers complained that he needed to bulk up. You don't think that the ORG was like "Hey bro, stay really skinny and frail so you get pushed around in the paint" and he was like "Nah man I am going to get Big Baby Fat and dominate the paint"? This is getting pretty ridiculous.

I've seen short guards box him out in the paint with their low center of gravity and similar weight. they can't do that no more. People really try to make narratives that just take the obvious. We all knew he was too skinny coming into the league and he was a couple years away from being a true contributor.... what more would you expect up till now... all while factoring in the injury stuff and covid. lol. I would be cautious too if kyle lowry was taking me in the paint. hahaha

[basketballRob]

Is there any reason why we don't even try for guys like Korver ? i don't care if he is 46, guy has to have amazing work ethic to stay in shape so late in this career and be one of best pure shooters for almost 2 decades.

I don’t care if it’s Korver but I’m surprised we don’t really ever go after an older minimum ish “vet” that is known for being a good locker room guy. Doesn’t need to play in games to make an impact type of player. I’ve always heard that about guys like Korver, Tolliver, Dudley, Haslem (not that he’s ever available).

They've got Vuc and Ennis.

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[Bensational]

You're right in that Cliff won't develop talent by expanding their games. He just gets them to a safe bare minimum. Unless a player already has skill, Cliff won't be getting it out of them.

That said, I think it's fair to question Mo's attitude and work ethic. There's a huge disconnect between him and coaching/management it seems, and he appears to have been doing some things of his own accord (like bulking up). For a guy with his GPA I'd have hoped to see him become smarter on the court and adjust to rotations faster. It really shouldn't be hard for Mo to watch Birch, see what best doing that Cliff loves and to go replicate it. But Mo still sets terrible screens, and chooses to chase highlight reel recovery blocks instead of fundamental box outs, etc. Personally, he seems like the kind of young talent I'd hate to work with in my field - tantalising potential but his own ego and self entitlement gets in the way. For someone being paid as well as he is, his performance hasn't been professional enough for my liking.

That said, I hope this is all just the uncomfortable part of breaking through that and motivating him.

Before he bulked up, everyone on here and our city's sport writers complained that he needed to bulk up. You don't think that the ORG was like "Hey bro, stay really skinny and frail so you get pushed around in the paint" and he was like "Nah man I am going to get Big Baby Fat and dominate the paint"? This is getting pretty ridiculous.

I've seen short guards box him out in the paint with their low center of gravity and similar weight. they can't do that no more. People really try to make narratives that just take the obvious. We all knew he was too skinny coming into the league and he was a couple years away from being a true contributor.... what more would you expect up till now... all while factoring in the injury stuff and covid. lol. I would be cautious too if kyle lowry was taking me in the paint. hahaha

What narrative? He bulked up but his cardio, which was already lacking, went into the red. He boasts of running a few miles every day now. Why wasn't he doing that for the past two seasons? Even before he bulked up his cardio was in question.

You can say lingering covid effects prevented his cardio but if he had the strength and energy to add mass I'm not sure why he didn't have the energy to continue pushing his cardio. (though, in my own admission, I don't know how covid effects in that regard).

We're talking about a dude who slept through a tape session. If you don't think professionalism is in question then I don't know what else to say.

[Skin]

Is there any reason why we don't even try for guys like Korver ? i don't care if he is 46, guy has to have amazing work ethic to stay in shape so late in this career and be one of best pure shooters for almost 2 decades.

Because we have Gary Clark. You must have missed his YouTube video where he drains shots in an open gym. Lol.

Get hype

[Xatticus]

Before he bulked up, everyone on here and our city's sport writers complained that he needed to bulk up. You don't think that the ORG was like "Hey bro, stay really skinny and frail so you get pushed around in the paint" and he was like "Nah man I am going to get Big Baby Fat and dominate the paint"? This is getting pretty ridiculous.

I've seen short guards box him out in the paint with their low center of gravity and similar weight. they can't do that no more. People really try to make narratives that just take the obvious. We all knew he was too skinny coming into the league and he was a couple years away from being a true contributor.... what more would you expect up till now... all while factoring in the injury stuff and covid. lol. I would be cautious too if kyle lowry was taking me in the paint. hahaha

What narrative? He bulked up but his cardio, which was already lacking, went into the red. He boasts of running a few miles every day now. Why wasn't he doing that for the past two seasons? Even before he bulked up his cardio was in question.

You can say lingering covid effects prevented his cardio but if he had the strength and energy to add mass I'm not sure why he didn't have the energy to continue pushing his cardio. (though, in my own admission, I don't know how covid effects in that regard).

We're talking about a dude who slept through a tape session. If you don't think professionalism is in question then I don't know what else to say.

Firstly, he didn't bulk up from laziness. It takes a concerted effort to gain that weight when you are a rail-thin, professional athlete. He didn't gain that weight when he was in a cast recovering from a broken leg. I don't know what happened. I don't know what sort of input he got from the organization. It's just really weird to see people on this board criticizing him after he has been lambasted for being too thin.

Secondly, he probably wasn't allowed to run that much last year due to the stress fracture in his leg that he had recently recovered from. Much like the medical staff of the Orlando Magic, I'm no expert, but I did get a stress fracture in my leg from running too much. I'd expect that it took some time before he was cleared to resume.

Thirdly, this rabbit hole of criticism regarding a comment Bamba made about running is nothing more than a litmus test for the prejudices of people on this board. The guy said he is running 3.5 miles a day and that has been construed as more evidence of how lazy he is? WTF is going on here?

This is all forest from the trees stuff. I give zero **** about whether or not Clifford thinks he is hustling enough. It is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not he should be ahead of Birch in the rotation. The difference in upside between these two players is immense. Bamba has comparable measurables to Gobert, but with superior mobility and the potential to stretch the floor. We knew he was raw when he was drafted. We knew his development would be a process. He wasn't who I wanted. I wanted Mikal Bridges. But since we drafted Bamba, we committed to that development. The funny **** thing in all of this is that I did not want to draft Cole Anthony, but I can almost guarantee you I'm going to end up defending him on this board.

Birch, on his best day, is replacement level. He is an undersized big that possesses no skills of value. He has no talent. He will never have value. He will never be anything better than a bench big that you hope doesn't kill you when he is on the floor. But we did get killed when he was on the floor last year:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&TeamID=1610612753

There is nothing to gain by indulging Clifford's crusade to use discipline to drag a **** roster into a play-in game. We have bigger fish to fry. We should be concerned with the future of this franchise. People are comparing Clifford to HOF caliber coaches to defend his desire to play Birch over Bamba. Clifford is a nun with a yardstick trying to teach the naughty boy how good boys behave. This board has gone **** nuts.