Bears 2019/20; George McCaskey is on the clock

[Dresden]

Greatest draft in Bears history though has to be the year they got both Butkus and Sayers....

Maybe 1965 Draft has more star power, but 1983 is close also with 2 HOF and 7 Super Bowl starters.

Round Pick Player Position College Notes
1 6 Jim Covert * † Offensive tackle Pittsburgh
1 18 Willie Gault Wide receiver Tennessee
2 33 Mike Richardson Cornerback Arizona State
3 64 Dave Duerson * Safety Notre Dame
4 91 Tom Thayer Center Notre Dame
4 107 Pat Dunsmore Tight end Drake
8 203 Richard Dent † Defensive end Tennessee State
8 219 Mark Bortz * Guard Iowa
9 230 Rob Fada Guard Pittsburgh
9 235 Mark Zavagnin Linebacker Notre Dame
10 256 Anthony Hutchison Running back Texas Tech
11 286 Gary Worthy Running back Wilmington (OH)
12 313 Oliver Williams Wide receiver Illinois

I wouldn't argue with that. To get 7 starters in one draft, including several who were pro bowl caliber, is something pretty rare.

OTH, to get arguably the greatest linebacker of all time, AND someone who could have been a top 5 or 10 RB of all time if he hadn't been injured is also a pretty good feat.

[Dresden]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

It might rival Blazers taking Sam Bowie over MJ.

[Jeffster81]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

I will only haunt the Bears if the can't find and developed their own QB.

[Jeffster81]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

It might rival Blazers taking Sam Bowie over MJ.

I don't blame the Blazers for taking Bowie because: A. They already had an AS caliber (future HOF) 2guard already on the team in Drexler and B: They needed a Center and Bowie was considered one of the top players in the draft.

I think Jordan/Bowie mistake gets WAY overblown, imo. I understood why Portland made their decision, it was not the correct decision but I understood why they made it at the time.

I think Trubisky/Mahomes mistake is closer to the Durant/Oden mistake by Portland.

[Pax for Prez]

Greatest draft in Bears history though has to be the year they got both Butkus and Sayers....

Maybe 1965 Draft has more star power, but 1983 is close also with 2 HOF and 7 Super Bowl starters.

Round Pick Player Position College Notes
1 6 Jim Covert * † Offensive tackle Pittsburgh
1 18 Willie Gault Wide receiver Tennessee
2 33 Mike Richardson Cornerback Arizona State
3 64 Dave Duerson * Safety Notre Dame
4 91 Tom Thayer Center Notre Dame
4 107 Pat Dunsmore Tight end Drake
8 203 Richard Dent † Defensive end Tennessee State
8 219 Mark Bortz * Guard Iowa
9 230 Rob Fada Guard Pittsburgh
9 235 Mark Zavagnin Linebacker Notre Dame
10 256 Anthony Hutchison Running back Texas Tech
11 286 Gary Worthy Running back Wilmington (OH)
12 313 Oliver Williams Wide receiver Illinois

I wouldn't argue with that. To get 7 starters in one draft, including several who were pro bowl caliber, is something pretty rare.

OTH, to get arguably the greatest linebacker of all time, AND someone who could have been a top 5 or 10 RB of all time if he hadn't been injured is also a pretty good feat.

Agreed, but as the saying goes "Don't mean a thing without a ring"

[jnrjr79]

Read on Twitter

You can't fire me. I quit!

[ATRAIN53]

I hope Ted Phillips departure is not our only FO move this off season!


That Bill OC Brain Dabol last night reminded me of Nagy. Hot prospect with a gadgety offense.
The difference is that Josh Allen is actually good. I could see this guy being a Bears interview.

Interesting how that guy took one year off to work at Alabama with Nick Saban but then went right back to NFL.


These Tuesday Night Football games are great until the NBA gets some pre-season rolling

[nitetrain8603]

I think Pace absolutely needs to fire Nagy to have any hope of keeping his job. I place more blame on Pace than Nagy in some respects, but I can understand why he did what he did. Pace went all in on Trubisky being a great QB, if it worked, the Bears may have had a shot at the superbowl.

It didn't work, and when it was clear to most people it wouldn't work, he doubled down on it a few years rather than pivoting to a new plan. That's not necessarily awful, it was kind of like betting on post ACL Rose, you were pretty sure it would fail, but you didn't really have a better option other than starting a rebuild earlier.

Pace has the opposite team building approach I would have. My approach would be to always be trading down, always acquiring more assets. Pace has been aggressive about trading out of the draft to get better current players. I haven't really studied the NFL enough to know how well my approach would work historically though. I generally believe that the draft is closer to a "random walk" and that people overvalue their hunches too much.

The team cannot afford to let Pace sacrifice picks to trade up for random dudes anymore, let alone Trubisky. There are too many needs. Not that they ever could afford it. That has to stop.

Did NOT need to trade up to get Trubisky. To me that is more unforgivable than passing Mahomes and Watson.

I think this is the right attitude. You missed on two QBs when you were QB hungry. But the fact that you traded up one spot when that team had no intention of taking Trubisky (no one did) and giving up all of the draft capital that they did? That's defenseless unless Trubisky turns into a Watson or Mahomes type (HoF). Even then, that's still unnecessary.

In addition to that, the GM is responsible for asset management - draft capital, cap space, player talent - he's failed on all three. Pagano sucks as a DC. Nagy may or may not be good. He's looked bad this year, but I can see an argument for him not having the necessary talent on offense. With that stated, if the Bears need to burn down the forest to get rid of one guy, then they do it. Pace is the guy who needs to be gone.

This is also going to be a few years to rebuild as Pace has done awful at cap management.

[nitetrain8603]

Foles was Nagy's call, Glennon was a low risk signing that they were able to cut with zero cap ramifications the following season. There's zero defending Trubisky.

They are all Pace's call. The coach doesn't trade for players. The coach may have asked for Foles, but Pace agreed and made it happen. He's ultimately culpable for all roster decisions, if he picked guys to fit his head coach and his head coach is a failure, then that's a double failure on him for doubling down on a bad coach and his decisions rather than firing the bad coach and making his own. Pace owns the results here no matter how you slice it.

Granted, I don't care so much about Foles, the only thing I said at the time and will say now is that Foles wasn't necessarily better than Trubisky to me (not a clear upgrade) and we paid a fourth rounder to get a non clear upgrade when we could have gotten similar caliber guys without giving up picks. In the end, Foles and all those other guys whom were options have been bad, and I don't think the others would necessarily have been better, but we wouldn't have been worse off with Dalton or Newton and would have an extra pick.

Pace's willingness to give up draft capital is probably my biggest problem with him.

If you think that trading for Nick Foles disqualifies Pace from ever selecting a QB again, go right ahead. It gave Nagy what he wanted (a guy who knew his system) and cost us a 4th rounder + backup QB money. Turns out, Nagy's system is a fraud and we've got a pretty decent backup QB on a decent salary for the next two years.

Dalton has elite playmakers and sucks but he signed his contract after the draft, in hindsight it would have been nice to have him for a cheap contract for sure but clearly Nagy had influence on the decision and Pace went out and got Nagy's guy.

Either way, Dalton would have sucked here because Nagy sucks and the argument would have been the same - you can't let Pace select the next QB because he whiffed on Dalton even though it would have been a pretty minor/negligible move.

The Foles move didn't set back the franchise. A good GM works in concert with his head coach and turns out the head coach is a fraud.

I thought Foles' cap number was a lot bigger which is why the argument was made to sign anyone else.

[nitetrain8603]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

It might rival Blazers taking Sam Bowie over MJ.

I don't blame the Blazers for taking Bowie because: A. They already had an AS caliber (future HOF) 2guard already on the team in Drexler and B: They needed a Center and Bowie was considered one of the top players in the draft.

I think Jordan/Bowie mistake gets WAY overblown, imo. I understood why Portland made their decision, it was not the correct decision but I understood why they made it at the time.

I think Trubisky/Mahomes mistake is closer to the Durant/Oden mistake by Portland.

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst.

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

[Brothaman33]

It might rival Blazers taking Sam Bowie over MJ.

I don't blame the Blazers for taking Bowie because: A. They already had an AS caliber (future HOF) 2guard already on the team in Drexler and B: They needed a Center and Bowie was considered one of the top players in the draft.

I think Jordan/Bowie mistake gets WAY overblown, imo. I understood why Portland made their decision, it was not the correct decision but I understood why they made it at the time.

I think Trubisky/Mahomes mistake is closer to the Durant/Oden mistake by Portland.

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst.

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

The problem with some of those comparisons is that there were 8 other players selected. Before Mahomes went.

Do the Browns get flack for not taking Mahomes #1? If they knew he was THIS good, how come they are not in this never ending bashing of the pick? I mean, Myles Garret is good, but is he better the a QB with a HoF trajectory? 49ers? Jags? Titans? Jets? Chargers? Panthers? Bengals?

The Bengals took John effing Ross right before Mahomes, does their fan base kick themselves in the scrotum every week?

My point is, NO ONE knew Mahomes was THIS good. And all the 20/20 vision people throw, like they knew, is all rediculous. Even the "Well, if you really look at it, the tape all matched up, I knew it for sure" even all those fools are stupid. Mahomes had questions coming into the draft. Thats why 10th.

The Bears are for sure gonna pay for their mistake, but if the comparison is that we passed on "Michael Jordan" then so did 9 other teams. They'll all be fired. But its nauseating to to act like Mahomes was this sure thing coming out. If he was he would of went #1. And Ryan Pace will be long gone.

[nitetrain8603]

I don't blame the Blazers for taking Bowie because: A. They already had an AS caliber (future HOF) 2guard already on the team in Drexler and B: They needed a Center and Bowie was considered one of the top players in the draft.

I think Jordan/Bowie mistake gets WAY overblown, imo. I understood why Portland made their decision, it was not the correct decision but I understood why they made it at the time.

I think Trubisky/Mahomes mistake is closer to the Durant/Oden mistake by Portland.

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst.

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

The problem with some of those comparisons is that there were 8 other players selected. Before Mahomes went.

Do the Browns get flack for not taking Mahomes #1? If they knew he was THIS good, how come they are not in this never ending bashing of the pick? I mean, Myles Garret is good, but is he better the a QB with a HoF trajectory? 49ers? Jags? Titans? Jets? Chargers? Panthers? Bengals?

The Bengals took John effing Ross right before Mahomes, does their fan base kick themselves in the scrotum every week?

My point is, NO ONE knew Mahomes was THIS good. And all the 20/20 vision people throw, like they knew, is all rediculous. Even the "Well, if you really look at it, the tape all matched up, I knew it for sure" even all those fools are stupid. Mahomes had questions coming into the draft. Thats why 10th.

The Bears are for sure gonna pay for their mistake, but if the comparison is that we passed on "Michael Jordan" then so did 9 other teams. They'll all be fired. But its nauseating to to act like Mahomes was this sure thing coming out. If he was he would of went #1. And Ryan Pace will be long gone.

The Bears missing out on Mahomes is not fireable in itself. What's fireable is the fact that Pace fell in love with Trubisky who had not demonstrated anything at NC. Hell, he only started something crazy like 12 games. You never take a QB who's only played that much, especially if they didn't play the highest competition. And it's not like NC is some QB factory either. Not only did he fall in love with him, he misevaluated him big time. Not only did he do that, he ignored his HC and his scouts who all liked Watson. Not only did he fall in love, not listen to his scouts/HC and miss out on two HoF QBs, he negotiated against himself to draft the player he misevaluated by using so much draft capital to move up one spot for a player that no one was going to take.

If you haven't read up on Pace negotiating against himself, err, with Lynch who laughed at Pace, I strongly suggest you do. That story alone, regardless of the names of the players, is fireable to me.

It's a mistake of huge proportions. Most definitely fireable.

[patryk7754]

Here’s another version of an off-season plan

Fire everyone
Hire Daniel Jeremiah as GM
Hire Jim Caldwell as HC
If fired, bring back Fangio as DC. If not let Caldwell bring in his own guy

Cuts
Jimmy Graham- Saves 7mil in cap and he’s production isn’t worth his cost especially since we have so little cap and need to make major improvements on the oline. Also, we have to let Kmet be the guy,

Charles Leno Jr- He sucks and it would save us about 6.2mil. If someone wants to gives us a pick for him, great, but I don’t think that will happen

Danny Trevathan- This one is a little complicated because as of right now his contract is guaranteed but I think Pace put language in the contract that can get the Bears out of it saving roughly 5mil.

Trades
Foles to the Colts for conditional 6th-Brissett is most likely going to leave the Colts, so they’ll need a backup. With the relationship between Foles and the Colts HC and a ton of cap space, they may be willing to trade for him. Saves the Bears 1.33 in cap.

Buster Skrine to Chargers for 6th round pick- They traded they’re star CB to the Titans so they could be in the market for a CB. If not then another team or cut him. Either way, the Bears save 2.8mil

Bobbie Massies, Anthony Miller, and a 3rd to the Ravens for Orlando Brown Jr (RT)- The Ravens have already given Stanley the largest oline deal (until the Packers out did them) so I don’t think they’ll do another record deal with Brown and he’s definitely getting one. With this trade the Ravens get a serviceable RT especially with Jacksons Mobility, and above average WR and a decent pick. Saves the Bears 6.9 mil

With Cuts and trades we’d have about 26mil in cap, 31 if we can get out of Trevathan’s contract. I think its safe to say we could get about 10 mil in restructures. So lets say an even 40mil in total cap.

Resigning
Allen Robinson: 4 yr 80 mil WR: 15mil 2021 cap hit
Roy Robertson-Harris DE: 1 yr 3mil
Pat O’Donnel P: 3 yr 5.25mil: 1.75 2021 cap hit
Demetrius Harris TE: 1 year 1.1 mil
Sherrick McMannis CB: 1 yr 1.175mil
Tashuan Gibson S: 1 yr 1.05mil
Brent Urban: 1 yr 1mil

Cap after Resignings: 16.35

Free Agents
Andy Dalton QB: 1 yr 3mil
Keleche Osemele G: 1 yr 1.35
Ty Sambrailo LT: 1 yr 3mil
Jarred Davis ILB: 1 y 3ml
Nicole Roby-Colman CB: 1 yr 2mil
DeDe Westbrook WR; 1 yr 2 mil

About 2 mil left in cap

Draft: Pipe dream edition
RD 1: JaMarr Chase, WR
RD 2: Kyle Trask, QB
RD 3: pick traded to Baltimore
RD 4: Zaven Collins, OLB
RD 5: Javonte Williams, RB
RD 6: Zach Davidson, TE
RD 7:Lamel Coleman, OT

[Almost Retired]

They need an OLine. They have no one there.

Back in the ancient 1970s we had Jim Finks as the GM from 1977-1983. He was a "build from the lines" first kind of GM. Drafted guys like Ted Albrecht in 1977, Dan Hampton in 1979, Keith Van Horne in 1981. He loaded up on some linebackers too. Singletary in 81, Otis Wilson in 80, Al Harris in 79. Then came the greatest Draft in Bears history in 1983. Finks's last Year as GM. Jimbo Covert, Willie Gault, Mike Richardson, Dave Duerson, Tom Thayer, Richard Dent and Mark Bortz. I was not always enamored taking linemen every year but he set up the Foundation that eventually created the best Bears team any of us now living will ever see. Having playmakers makes you a great team IF you have the foundation properly laid. But great wide outs do you no good if your QB doesn't have 3 seconds to drop back and throw. And if the O Line can't open a keyhole to develop any consistent running game. Whoever takes over for Pace needs to fix the O-Line and draft some D-Line back-up help. Our defense becomes second rate when we lose Goldman and Hicks to injury, which seems to happen every year now. We probably shouldn't even waste a pick on a QB this year. Just upgrade both lines for the next 2 drafts and live with mediocrity at QB until we have the groundwork laid to be able to put a QB in a position to succeed.

They definitely need to rework the offensive line. Saying your defensive line can't withstand injuries to half its starters and probably its 2nd and 3rd best players and thus needs backups that can plug in and play at the same level seems like an unreasonable ask though.

You'd be a lot worse off if you had two above average caliber lineman on your bench not playing most downs vs having two above average starting caliber players that are playing somewhere else every down. Granted, you may need to build the defensive line if you have guys you can't keep or move for picks, but you shouldn't ever expect to lose starters and have bench depth that has no drop off.

I know there will always be a drop off from losing starters to playing their back-ups. But there are drop offs to competency and drop offs to worse than mediocrity. The difference between the Bears defense with Goldman and Hicks and without them is glaring. And it has cost us several games already. And returning to the O-Line for a second. The incompetence of the O-Line results in so many 3 and outs that even if we have a good defensive effort in the first half by the time the second half rolls around the Defense is gassed and/or beaten up. Offense is more than scoring. Ball control has lots of positive effects. Even Mahomes can't beat you from the bench. But when we see such time of possession disparities due to the Bears Offensive incompetence it is no wonder our defense is giving up points. When you feel like you have to call a pass play on a 3rd and four in the shadow of your own goalposts when all you need is a single first down to eek out a win.....that is a recognition that your offense can't give you even 4 yards with the game on the line. Nagy has proven that he is no genius on offense. He's in way over his head. But his toolbox is fairly empty. And that falls on Pace. Pace has a place in the league...as a scout. Not as a GM.

[dougthonus]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst.

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

Oden still got a lot of credit for being a traditional big man. Talent evaluators hadn't quite made the leap to the modern NBA yet. If you look at his college stats and look at Durant's college stats, in today's draft, no one would have even considered Oden at #1 over Durant IMO.

[thedarkstark]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst..

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

[nitetrain8603]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst..

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

Agreed. I remember all of those concerns. I used to be huge into AAU and high school basketball then. KD was as thin as rails. To Doug's point, the NBA had not pivoted to the modern NBA yet. With that stated, I still think if Oden were in this year's draft, he would've gone number 1 overall. I certainly would have.

Oden had the rare ability all superstars do which is impose his will on the game. It's sad that injuries did him in.

[dougthonus]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst..

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

To be fair to KD, it was 175, not 135.

While I agree Oden was the pick most people had at the draft, there were people that wanted Durant #1. Danny Ainge, whom had pick #5 but had hoped to do better in the lottery, desperately wanted Durant and not Oden.

[Ben Wilson25]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst..

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

To be fair to KD, it was 175, not 135.

While I agree Oden was the pick most people had at the draft, there were people that wanted Durant #1. Danny Ainge, whom had pick #5 but had hoped to do better in the lottery, desperately wanted Durant and not Oden.

From a media perspective Bill Simmons was also pretty vocal about saying Durant should be the #1 pick in the run-up to the draft.

[thedarkstark]

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

To be fair to KD, it was 175, not 135.

While I agree Oden was the pick most people had at the draft, there were people that wanted Durant #1. Danny Ainge, whom had pick #5 but had hoped to do better in the lottery, desperately wanted Durant and not Oden.

From a media perspective Bill Simmons was also pretty vocal about saying Durant should be the #1 pick in the run-up to the draft.

Obviously there are going to be differing opinions, they were both really highly regarded most felt that even though Oden was a superior prospect that Durant would be one hell of a consolation prize.

If I remember correctly though Simmons was a little wishy washy on it, he liked Durant A LOT but he was still on the fence. I maybe misremembering but I used to listen to the BS report a lot back in those days.

I may have to go see if I can dig up some audio from back then, would be a fun listen given what we know now.