[Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green

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Green for Horford and picks: your take?

Green means Go: Sixers win. They trade a redundant, expensive luxury for a need and don't have to add that much.
35
41%
Green around the gills: Thunder win. They're cycling through productive vets and still adding picks along the way.
16
19%
Wait in the Green room: both sides win. Philly improves on the court and OKC improves their stash.
30
35%
The Grass is always Green-er: both sides lose. Green is more rep than production, and OKC didn't get paid enough for taking on Horford.
4
5%
 
Total votes: 85

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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#161 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Dec 7, 2020 8:32 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
I saw somewhere that Poirier was being added, but it might have just been a poster on here


Andre Roberstan was posting it on twitter today--his source was in French so I can't speak to exactly what it said, but the gist was Poirier was going to Philly.


It was a couple of places but it doesn’t make the matching work still, unless I’m missing something.


It does make the matching work being pretty close to exactly as much as needed , so I expect Poirier is a Sixer tomorrow. Might start a thread for offers for him :lol:
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#162 » by BullyKing » Mon Dec 7, 2020 11:32 pm

So I guess the Sixers are taking Poirier into the Richardson TPE to preserve the larger one from OKC. Just really not great stuff.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#163 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Dec 8, 2020 12:12 am

BullyKing wrote:So I guess the Sixers are taking Poirier into the Richardson TPE to preserve the larger one from OKC. Just really not great stuff.


Seems smart matching, a ~3m tpe can always be carved from the bigger one. But it means the Sixers need to move more salary to drop below the tax; or have Poirier and Bradley as both 3rd string c's with fully gtd deals.

I feel like a follow on deal will have to come, as paying to dump Poirier makes more sense than paying to eat Poirier after the tax.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#164 » by BullyKing » Tue Dec 8, 2020 12:19 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:
BullyKing wrote:So I guess the Sixers are taking Poirier into the Richardson TPE to preserve the larger one from OKC. Just really not great stuff.


Seems smart matching, a ~3m tpe can always be carved from the bigger one. But it means the Sixers need to move more salary to drop below the tax; or have Poirier and Bradley as both 3rd string c's with fully gtd deals.

I feel like a follow on deal will have to come, as paying to dump Poirier makes more sense than paying to eat Poirier after the tax.


That part is fine and you have to do it. My "really not great stuff" comment was about how the cost of this trade now increases by either the Richardson TPE or more likely the pick needed to get off Poirier.

I don't know, this whole offseason sucks. They paid a lot of assets to raise their floor but lower their ceiling. At least with the misfit toys there was a chance a new coach could figure out how to make it work. Now they are locked in with Tobias as their third best player and no clear path for changing that. And a team with Tobias Harris as its third best player isn't winning anything unless your best player is Lebron.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#165 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:45 pm

Deal is officially official. Poirier got aggregated in to match salaries so that OKC could keep the full Steven Adams TPE.

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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#166 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:48 pm

An anticlimactic end to this lingering saga.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#167 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:53 pm

Notable that this is technically a case of “stepping up the basis” in using Poirier to exactly fit into mayne the deal work legally and preserve the TPE.

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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#168 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:18 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Notable that this is technically a case of “stepping up the basis” in using Poirier to exactly fit into mayne the deal work legally and preserve the TPE.


I wouldn't classify it as that, although it is similar, and I'm not saying the overall takeaway changes.

But from my (purist?) perspective, stepping up the basis is when you want to go from A to C and need a B middle trade. It is done in succession and basically done when aggregation is not possible (or desirable). I.e. 10m player for a 12m player. 12m player for a 14m player. 10 effectively matches 14m (which isn't legal for a taxpaying team).

Here, the loophole being stretched isn't so much the matching, but the intention of the delay on aggregation:

if a team used an exception to acquire a player (which means it acquired the player by any means other than using cap room), it cannot include that player in an aggregated trade for two months.


2 months would normally be long enough that no one would seriously agree to a deal and then do a set up trade and wait. But this sped up season has had what a 4(?) week period? So, OKC and Philly could agree to a deal and wait less time than was waited for the Wiggins/Love deal where it required 30 days after Wiggins signed for matching.

Don't get me wrong, it stretches intentions; just in a neighborly way than an exact way of the stepped up basis. Again, using my strict definition there, and based off it is a different rule being used (aggregation).
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#169 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:27 pm

I just want to say technical violation or not, I have no issues with it and I don't believe any teams really do either. It's just smart business and its how any competent FO would have structured it--assuming the other team is willing to go along with the delay.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#170 » by LloydFree » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:42 pm

I don't get OKC:

PG: Gilgeous-Alexander
PG: Theo Maledon
PG: Vasilije Micic
PG: Vit Krejci

Why trade for 3 different 6'5 PG stashes in the same draft when you already have Gilgeous-Alexander?
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#171 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:45 pm

LloydFree wrote:I don't get OKC:

PG: Gilgeous-Alexander
PG: Theo Maledon
PG: Vasilije Micic
PG: Vit Krejci

Why trade for 3 different 6'5 PG stashes in the same draft when you already have Gilgeous-Alexander?


They are stashes. OKC is looking for guys who will help in 3 years. If one of them breaks out and looks like a solid NBA player than they will bring them over. Until then, they don't have to compete with each other for minutes. Looks like a perfect rebuilding strategy to me.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#172 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:47 pm

LloydFree wrote:I don't get OKC:

PG: Gilgeous-Alexander
PG: Theo Maledon
PG: Vasilije Micic
PG: Vit Krejci

Why trade for 3 different 6'5 PG stashes in the same draft when you already have Gilgeous-Alexander?


Theo is going to come over and play I believe. SGA is likely to get more burn at SG (he has playmaking skills but is also a good enough defender for either guard spot, but they will probably try him out at point a good amount and see how that goes). VK is a point forward once he even gets healthy and he's a longshot overall. Not sure where Micic fits in all this.

If you look at what OKC is doing with acquiring the rights to G League players, it's pretty clear they are just testing out a ton of guys to see who can stick on an NBA roster.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#173 » by LloydFree » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:55 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:I don't get OKC:

PG: Gilgeous-Alexander
PG: Theo Maledon
PG: Vasilije Micic
PG: Vit Krejci

Why trade for 3 different 6'5 PG stashes in the same draft when you already have Gilgeous-Alexander?


Theo is going to come over and play I believe. SGA is likely to get more burn at SG (he has playmaking skills but is also a good enough defender for either guard spot, but they will probably try him out at point a good amount and see how that goes). VK is a point forward once he even gets healthy and he's a longshot overall. Not sure where Micic fits in all this.

If you look at what OKC is doing with acquiring the rights to G League players, it's pretty clear they are just testing out a ton of guys to see who can stick on an NBA roster.

Vit Krejci is the real head scratcher for me. Longshot to make the NBA is putting it mildly.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#174 » by HotelVitale » Tue Dec 8, 2020 6:11 pm

BullyKing wrote: I don't know, this whole offseason sucks. They paid a lot of assets to raise their floor but lower their ceiling. At least with the misfit toys there was a chance a new coach could figure out how to make it work. Now they are locked in with Tobias as their third best player and no clear path for changing that. And a team with Tobias Harris as its third best player isn't winning anything unless your best player is Lebron.

I'm not that hype on the Sixers' offseason either but I'm not sure what you think could've happened. Even if dumping Harris in place of Horford was on the table, that move still doesn't free up cap space to bring in a better 3rd best player, and it also leaves the Sixers with a worse fit in Horford as their 3rd best player. Unless you're thinking that a package of Horford, Thybulle, Maxey, and picks could bring back someone else--but I'm not sure there are any trades for meaningful players that would work with Horford and not Harris coming back. You just saying you're upset that the Sixers made bad moves over the last two years and haven't yet them fixed yet?
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#175 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 8:41 pm

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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#176 » by the_process » Wed Dec 9, 2020 3:04 am

Next thing I'm going to hear is that Harris extended a no interest loan off the books from his capital firm to Fertitta :lol:
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#177 » by kriss73 » Wed Dec 9, 2020 8:32 am

Well, if the next deal we hear is Harden to Philly for Tobias and a couple of picks, maybe Harris has directly bought the whole Fertitta's firm. :-D
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#178 » by BullyKing » Wed Dec 9, 2020 12:31 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
BullyKing wrote: I don't know, this whole offseason sucks. They paid a lot of assets to raise their floor but lower their ceiling. At least with the misfit toys there was a chance a new coach could figure out how to make it work. Now they are locked in with Tobias as their third best player and no clear path for changing that. And a team with Tobias Harris as its third best player isn't winning anything unless your best player is Lebron.

I'm not that hype on the Sixers' offseason either but I'm not sure what you think could've happened. Even if dumping Harris in place of Horford was on the table, that move still doesn't free up cap space to bring in a better 3rd best player, and it also leaves the Sixers with a worse fit in Horford as their 3rd best player. Unless you're thinking that a package of Horford, Thybulle, Maxey, and picks could bring back someone else--but I'm not sure there are any trades for meaningful players that would work with Horford and not Harris coming back. You just saying you're upset that the Sixers made bad moves over the last two years and haven't yet them fixed yet?


Yeah pretty much. I'm mostly pushing back against the narrative that I've seen here and in the media that the Sixers had some home run offseason as I just don't see it. Now that's really the consequence of what Brand did so I do understand what Morey has done on that level but I'm just not seeing why so many people are giving Philly great reviews on the offseason.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#179 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Dec 9, 2020 1:02 pm

BullyKing wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
BullyKing wrote: I don't know, this whole offseason sucks. They paid a lot of assets to raise their floor but lower their ceiling. At least with the misfit toys there was a chance a new coach could figure out how to make it work. Now they are locked in with Tobias as their third best player and no clear path for changing that. And a team with Tobias Harris as its third best player isn't winning anything unless your best player is Lebron.

I'm not that hype on the Sixers' offseason either but I'm not sure what you think could've happened. Even if dumping Harris in place of Horford was on the table, that move still doesn't free up cap space to bring in a better 3rd best player, and it also leaves the Sixers with a worse fit in Horford as their 3rd best player. Unless you're thinking that a package of Horford, Thybulle, Maxey, and picks could bring back someone else--but I'm not sure there are any trades for meaningful players that would work with Horford and not Harris coming back. You just saying you're upset that the Sixers made bad moves over the last two years and haven't yet them fixed yet?


Yeah pretty much. I'm mostly pushing back against the narrative that I've seen here and in the media that the Sixers had some home run offseason as I just don't see it. Now that's really the consequence of what Brand did so I do understand what Morey has done on that level but I'm just not seeing why so many people are giving Philly great reviews on the offseason.



-- Curry for RIchardson
A roster balance move that was overpaid imo, but you have a case it makes both teams much better.

-- Horford and a 1st for Green and some small bad salary?
It might make the team a smidge better this year, but absolutely not a lightly protected 1st better. I don't see Green having that in his tank at all at this point. So, it is all about erasing Horford off the books, which does 3 things:
a) Give a large expiring that can be used in a trade this season.
b) Give possibly the full MLE next offseason
c) Save money for the owner

If it isn't a) and Green simply expires after this season, what would be better next year? Horford with 41m left, a lightly protected 1st, {cash, the 2nd}, and the tax MLE all ... or the full MLE?

I see this move as bad for the team long term unless there is a follow up trade of Green for a long term piece this season.
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Re: [Woj] Horford, Ferg, 1st, 2nd for Danny Green 

Post#180 » by BullyKing » Wed Dec 9, 2020 1:13 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:I'm not that hype on the Sixers' offseason either but I'm not sure what you think could've happened. Even if dumping Harris in place of Horford was on the table, that move still doesn't free up cap space to bring in a better 3rd best player, and it also leaves the Sixers with a worse fit in Horford as their 3rd best player. Unless you're thinking that a package of Horford, Thybulle, Maxey, and picks could bring back someone else--but I'm not sure there are any trades for meaningful players that would work with Horford and not Harris coming back. You just saying you're upset that the Sixers made bad moves over the last two years and haven't yet them fixed yet?


Yeah pretty much. I'm mostly pushing back against the narrative that I've seen here and in the media that the Sixers had some home run offseason as I just don't see it. Now that's really the consequence of what Brand did so I do understand what Morey has done on that level but I'm just not seeing why so many people are giving Philly great reviews on the offseason.



-- Curry for RIchardson
A roster balance move that was overpaid imo, but you have a case it makes both teams much better.

-- Horford and a 1st for Green and some small bad salary?
It might make the team a smidge better this year, but absolutely not a lightly protected 1st better. I don't see Green having that in his tank at all at this point. So, it is all about erasing Horford off the books, which does 3 things:
a) Give a large expiring that can be used in a trade this season.
b) Give possibly the full MLE next offseason
c) Save money for the owner

If it isn't a) and Green simply expires after this season, what would be better next year? Horford with 41m left, a lightly protected 1st, {cash, the 2nd}, and the tax MLE all ... or the full MLE?

I see this move as bad for the team long term unless there is a follow up trade of Green for a long term piece this season.


This has been my mantra from the start. We are in serious trouble if we allow Green to expire without using his salary to acquire a long term starter (with what assets, who knows).
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