Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason

[spikeslovechild]

Having Harden and Embiid form one of the best halfcourt duos in the league while also having one of the best fastbreak players in the league in Simmons would basically make us near unstoppable. No question you do that trade if the Rockets are foolish enough to consider it.

It won't work. Harden will be walking the ball up the court not Simmons.

People need to stop pretending a square peg fits in a round hole. Simmons could theoretically work with Harden but that is only if he develops a reliable J and 3PT shot which is a longshot in the span of a single season. You don't pay him 30M to catch lobs and roll to the basket without the ball. Also it would be such a waste because Thybulle is great defensively and already has a developing 3PT shot. You pair him next to Harden and you get much of the defensive impact at a fraction of the cost and the offensive fit may actually be better.

What hurts is Simmons is a overpay since Harden is 31 and they've already traded Roco so the secondary piece to that trade just isn't there. There may need to be a 3rd team involved if they want Simmons.

[Negrodamus]

Having Harden and Embiid form one of the best halfcourt duos in the league while also having one of the best fastbreak players in the league in Simmons would basically make us near unstoppable. No question you do that trade if the Rockets are foolish enough to consider it.

It won't work. Harden will be walking the ball up the court not Simmons.

People need to stop pretending a square peg fits in a round hole. Simmons could theoretically work with Harden but that is only if he develops a reliable J and 3PT shot which is a longshot in the span of a single season. You don't pay him 30M to catch lobs and roll to the basket without the ball. Also it would be such a waste because Thybulle is great defensively and already has a developing 3PT shot. You pair him next to Harden and you get much of the defensive impact at a fraction of the cost and the offensive fit may actually be better.

What hurts is Simmons is a overpay since Harden is 31 and they've already traded Roco so the secondary piece to that trade just isn't there. There may need to be a 3rd team involved if they want Simmons.

Fast breaks aren't a choice, they are opportunities. If Ben rebounds the ball and has a head full of steam, he's not pulling it back to let Harden dribble down the court.

LeBron and Dwyane Wade were a terrible fit but they figured it out. You figure out what great players are capable of doing and you lean towards their strengths. Ben would be bad in the half court, but he'll be bad regardless.

It's not like last season where we're trying to make Ben, Joel, and a bunch of mediocre pieces fit together. We'd have two young superstars and one of the best offensive players of all time together. Doesn't seem that complicated.

[Jkam31]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

[cool93]

My latest take on Harden trade

Kings:
Shake Milton
14M expiring (mike scott,tony bradley, Walton&Poirier)
8M trade exemption
2023 1st round pick
- cheaper and a player who would be a very happy camper in Shake who can get you around Hield’s number with better %s

Rockets:
Tobias Harris (20ppg scorer)
Buddy Hield (20ppg scorer)
2021 Sixers 1st round pick

STARTING 5:
Wall (20ppg PG)
Buddy Hield (20ppg SG)
Danuel House (3&D)
Tobias Harris (20ppg PF)
Christian Wood (next wilt chamberlain)

Reason:
Hield and Tobi are good fit with Wall. A couple of 20ppg scorers who can shoot on 3 levels to compliment Wall. Then they also have a formidable big rotation with Tucker, Woods and DMC.

Honestly, this is a trade that makes more sense in terms of fit. I dont know how you can run a team with John Wall and Ben Simmons.

After adding Sixers’ 1st round pick, they’d have 3 first round picks for a deep 2021 draft.

Sixers:
James Harden
Eric Gordon

Reason:
Traded for Harden without giving up Ben or Biid.
Still have Ben, Thybulle and Green for wing defense.

Eric Gordon and Seth Curry off the bench for 6th man scoring.

Dwight and Biid a couple of good impact defensive Cs.

Why this deal trumps Nets offer?
- Rox has to live with Wall for the next 3 seasons. Does Dinwiddie and Lavert better fit for Wall than Hield and Tobi? It’s not like Dinwiddie and Lavert are better or are up and coming stars. Those two wont breach the echelon of Hield and Tobi, borderline stars only.
- Lavert is made of glass. GMs around the league would be scared to acquire him. Have you seen how durable Tobi is during G4 of the Celts series?

Age:
Caris Lavert:26
Dinwiddie: 27
Tobias: 28
Hield: 27
^ they are all in the same age group. So it’s not like Nets is giving up young talent. Hell, Lavert’s durability probably is worse than CP3 right now.

Any thoughts on this?

This beats the Nets offer without giving up Ben!

Stop it. Harris is one of the worst contracts in the league. That offer is complete garbage for Hou.

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[ankle420breaker]

Tobias/Thybulle/Maxey/Curry/two 1st rounders with rights to swap.

About the best we can do without including Ben.

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[spikeslovechild]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

[Jkam31]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

I just don’t get it you guys wouldn’t even trade Simmons for Harris/Thybull/Maxey but somehow a top 5 player would go for that. Like come one man

[youngcrev]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

I don't get how you could watch Embiid and Simmons together and not come away thinking that the missing piece in what they provide is elite perimeter shot creation. Something that James Harden happens to be one of the all time greats at. Ben can't space the floor, but something tells Harden and Embiid would manage offensively. Ben's defense and ability to push in transition would still be every bit as valuable. His question marks in the halfcourt are less of an issue when you've got Harden and Embiid carrying you in those aspects.

Now.... I don't see them realistically being able to pull off a deal without Ben... But for the life of me I can't figure out why you'd prefer to have guys like Tobias, Shake and Thybulle over Ben Simmons to go with that pairing. It literally couldn't be easier to put a supporting cast around those 3. Give me 2 3 and D guys (that could play almost any position due to the positional versatility you'd have) and coast to the finals.

[Kobblehead]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

You're very adamant about the concept of fit, huh. Does NBA history back your hard stance?

[stormi]

Harden - Simmons is nothing like Harden - Russ due to Ben's symbiotic value as a cutter and a lob threat. He'd boss the transition game, while Harden controlled the half court tempo. And Ben is marking every top wing/forward threat on the other side of the floor. Elite duo imo.

[Kobblehead]

The Warriors messed up everyone's perception. Not every duo is a perfect fit with each other.

LeBron James won a championship with three different duos. Only one of those running mates was elite on/off and that's Kyrie. Wade can't shoot and Davis is a bigman with no three point range.

Spacing and fit is icing, not cake batter.

[youngcrev]

I just don’t get it you guys wouldn’t even trade Simmons for Harris/Thybull/Maxey but somehow a top 5 player would go for that. Like come one man

The top-5 (ish) player is 31 and demanding a trade. That takes a pretty huge toll on his value. I think they'll be able to get more than what the Sixers can offer sans Simmons, but I think you're gonna be pretty disappointed with the return regardless. This isn't a AD (age) or Paul George (leverage due to Kawhi signing hinging on the deal) situation.

[the_process]

Tobias/Thybulle/Maxey/Curry/two 1st rounders with rights to swap.

About the best we can do without including Ben.

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Swap out Curry with Milton and I think you've got it.

[76ciology]

Harden - Simmons is nothing like Harden - Russ due to Ben's symbiotic value as a cutter and a lob threat. He'd boss the transition game, while Harden controlled the half court tempo. And Ben is marking every top wing/forward threat on the other side of the floor. Elite duo imo.

What happens if Harden faces an elite defender and got locked down?

IMO like you have to focus on halfcourt offense. Possibly multiple elite ways to score. Like you can run DHO or Post with Jojo while Harden can run PnR and ISO.

Transition is easy. Take care of the hard part and the easy part will take care of itself.

But sure, if you can have Biid, Ben and Harden all together then you go for that.

[76ciology]

My latest take on Harden trade

Kings:
Shake Milton
14M expiring (mike scott,tony bradley, Walton&Poirier)
8M trade exemption
2023 1st round pick
- cheaper and a player who would be a very happy camper in Shake who can get you around Hield’s number with better %s

Rockets:
Tobias Harris (20ppg scorer)
Buddy Hield (20ppg scorer)
2021 Sixers 1st round pick

STARTING 5:
Wall (20ppg PG)
Buddy Hield (20ppg SG)
Danuel House (3&D)
Tobias Harris (20ppg PF)
Christian Wood (next wilt chamberlain)

Reason:
Hield and Tobi are good fit with Wall. A couple of 20ppg scorers who can shoot on 3 levels to compliment Wall. Then they also have a formidable big rotation with Tucker, Woods and DMC.

Honestly, this is a trade that makes more sense in terms of fit. I dont know how you can run a team with John Wall and Ben Simmons.

After adding Sixers’ 1st round pick, they’d have 3 first round picks for a deep 2021 draft.

Sixers:
James Harden
Eric Gordon

Reason:
Traded for Harden without giving up Ben or Biid.
Still have Ben, Thybulle and Green for wing defense.

Eric Gordon and Seth Curry off the bench for 6th man scoring.

Dwight and Biid a couple of good impact defensive Cs.

Why this deal trumps Nets offer?
- Rox has to live with Wall for the next 3 seasons. Does Dinwiddie and Lavert better fit for Wall than Hield and Tobi? It’s not like Dinwiddie and Lavert are better or are up and coming stars. Those two wont breach the echelon of Hield and Tobi, borderline stars only.
- Lavert is made of glass. GMs around the league would be scared to acquire him. Have you seen how durable Tobi is during G4 of the Celts series?

Age:
Caris Lavert:26
Dinwiddie: 27
Tobias: 28
Hield: 27
^ they are all in the same age group. So it’s not like Nets is giving up young talent. Hell, Lavert’s durability probably is worse than CP3 right now.

Any thoughts on this?

This beats the Nets offer without giving up Ben!

Stop it. Harris is one of the worst contracts in the league. That offer is complete garbage for Hou.

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Honestly im just showing people we can beat the Nets offer with Tobi and Hield having more value than Dinwiddie and Lavert. Due to upside, skillset and fit.

Dinwiddie and Lavert wont be able to play with Wall. Both guys aren’t that “promising” compared to Hield and Tobias.

Contract wise we can negate it by absorbing Gordon’s contract.

Nobody will also value Lavert due to his injury history.

And this also goes to my other point, the goal is not to give equal value for Harden. You never can. Even Ben is not good enough to tell you frankly.

The goal is to be the highest bidder, but not by a lot compared to the second highest bidder.

Thats how it works.

[stormi]

Harden - Simmons is nothing like Harden - Russ due to Ben's symbiotic value as a cutter and a lob threat. He'd boss the transition game, while Harden controlled the half court tempo. And Ben is marking every top wing/forward threat on the other side of the floor. Elite duo imo.

What happens if Harden faces an elite defender and got locked down?

Different discussion. It's about how the fit of Russ/Harden is dissimilar to Simmons/Harden. Simmons provides offball value that Russ physically cannot. Russ's presence on the court was a detriment to James Harden at all times.

But in this case, like you've said in the past, Ben would play that facilitator/defender role like an even more skilled Bam or Draymond, while Harden shoulders the offensive creator load like Steph or Jimmy. They'd just need shooters and defenders around them.

[spikeslovechild]

What’s even the offer without Simmons how does this even go more than one page man

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

I don't get how you could watch Embiid and Simmons together and not come away thinking that the missing piece in what they provide is elite perimeter shot creation. Something that James Harden happens to be one of the all time greats at. Ben can't space the floor, but something tells Harden and Embiid would manage offensively. Ben's defense and ability to push in transition would still be every bit as valuable. His question marks in the halfcourt are less of an issue when you've got Harden and Embiid carrying you in those aspects.

Now.... I don't see them realistically being able to pull off a deal without Ben... But for the life of me I can't figure out why you'd prefer to have guys like Tobias, Shake and Thybulle over Ben Simmons to go with that pairing. It literally couldn't be easier to put a supporting cast around those 3. Give me 2 3 and D guys (that could play almost any position due to the positional versatility you'd have) and coast to the finals.

I'd rather have those players and the picks yes because the pairing wouldn't work and if we are going to trade Ben I'd rather it be at a time when his value is at his highest rather then when he is unhappy and not playing well because the fit is poor.

As far as the other guys go I think Thybulle can be an elite 3D guy. He makes peanuts. Harris can stretch the floor at the 4 and can roll to the basket and beat most 4 to the rim. That really leaves SF as the last spot and you would already have Green which is pretty much a full lineup.

You act like these elite 3D guys and stretch 4's just fall from the sky. Green got paid 15 million. Covington just got traded for multiple first rounders. Gallinari just signed for 3/61. Sure Harris is overpaid but what he does is still valuable probably in the 20M range. Show me how we are going to fill out the rest of the roster with no picks. Are you really comfortable Green and Harden as your only floor spacers as part of the starting 5? I am not

[youngcrev]

Pretty much not only is not non-serious trade offer I honestly have zero interest in pairing the two. It would be a worse disaster then the Westbrook Harden pairing it just doesn't work.

If people want to pretend otherwise they can but Simmons doesn't fit at all what would make the situation even worse is who we'd have to give up instead. Probably Harris. Probably Thybulle. Probably Milton. Probably all our picks. How are you supposed to fix the obvious floor spacing issues with no cap and no picks after the trade?

Sure Simmons is the better player then those guys but he isn't the better player next to Harden. Simmons needs a certain roster built around him to be successful I don't understand how after watching him since entering the league certain fans still don't understand this and the idea that Harden is going to defer and allow Simmons to carry the ball up the court is laughable or that Simmons is somehow going to be a one man fastbreak without Harris and with Embiid and Harden is once again not serious. I want Harden I would agree that if we move Simmons we probably need more to justify the move since Simmons would beat any other contenders offer by a large margin. That doesn't mean I think the two can co-exist infact I've watched enough basketball and enough of their games to know they can't.

I don't get how you could watch Embiid and Simmons together and not come away thinking that the missing piece in what they provide is elite perimeter shot creation. Something that James Harden happens to be one of the all time greats at. Ben can't space the floor, but something tells Harden and Embiid would manage offensively. Ben's defense and ability to push in transition would still be every bit as valuable. His question marks in the halfcourt are less of an issue when you've got Harden and Embiid carrying you in those aspects.

Now.... I don't see them realistically being able to pull off a deal without Ben... But for the life of me I can't figure out why you'd prefer to have guys like Tobias, Shake and Thybulle over Ben Simmons to go with that pairing. It literally couldn't be easier to put a supporting cast around those 3. Give me 2 3 and D guys (that could play almost any position due to the positional versatility you'd have) and coast to the finals.

I'd rather have those players and the picks yes because the pairing wouldn't work and if we are going to trade Ben I'd rather it be at a time when his value is at his highest rather then when he is unhappy and not playing well because the fit is poor.

As far as the other guys go I think Thybulle can be an elite 3D guy. He makes peanuts. Harris can stretch the floor at the 4 and can roll to the basket and beat most 4 to the rim. That really leaves SF as the last spot and you would already have Green which is pretty much a full lineup.

You act like these elite 3D guys and stretch 4's just fall from the sky. Green got paid 15 million. Covington just got traded for multiple first rounders. Gallinari just signed for 3/61. Sure Harris is overpaid but what he does is still valuable probably in the 20M range. Show me how we are going to fill out the rest of the roster with no picks. Are you really comfortable Green and Harden as your only floor spacers as part of the starting 5? I am not

Compared to All-NBA talents, they do. And let's not act like Thybulle is already an elite 3 and D guy. He's currently an offensive liability with an inconsistent jumper. Harris is also more of a scorer than a shooter, and wouldn't get many halfcourt possessions with Harden/Embiid... Leaving you with a minus defender that's an above average shooter for his position.

As for how you fill out the rest of the roster, Darryl Morey has been as good as anyone at mining talent out of seemingly nowhere. Plus we're coming off a year where Lebron/Davis just won a title with a bunch of scrap heap guys. I don't think its particularly hard to find fill in guys that range somewhere on the competency scale of 3+D, which is really all you'd need since you'd have at least one of those 3 guys on the floor at all times.

Ben fills the biggest hole between Jo/Harden, a guy that can push in transition, distribute and defend elite, big forwards.

[spikeslovechild]

I don't get how you could watch Embiid and Simmons together and not come away thinking that the missing piece in what they provide is elite perimeter shot creation. Something that James Harden happens to be one of the all time greats at. Ben can't space the floor, but something tells Harden and Embiid would manage offensively. Ben's defense and ability to push in transition would still be every bit as valuable. His question marks in the halfcourt are less of an issue when you've got Harden and Embiid carrying you in those aspects.

Now.... I don't see them realistically being able to pull off a deal without Ben... But for the life of me I can't figure out why you'd prefer to have guys like Tobias, Shake and Thybulle over Ben Simmons to go with that pairing. It literally couldn't be easier to put a supporting cast around those 3. Give me 2 3 and D guys (that could play almost any position due to the positional versatility you'd have) and coast to the finals.

I'd rather have those players and the picks yes because the pairing wouldn't work and if we are going to trade Ben I'd rather it be at a time when his value is at his highest rather then when he is unhappy and not playing well because the fit is poor.

As far as the other guys go I think Thybulle can be an elite 3D guy. He makes peanuts. Harris can stretch the floor at the 4 and can roll to the basket and beat most 4 to the rim. That really leaves SF as the last spot and you would already have Green which is pretty much a full lineup.

You act like these elite 3D guys and stretch 4's just fall from the sky. Green got paid 15 million. Covington just got traded for multiple first rounders. Gallinari just signed for 3/61. Sure Harris is overpaid but what he does is still valuable probably in the 20M range. Show me how we are going to fill out the rest of the roster with no picks. Are you really comfortable Green and Harden as your only floor spacers as part of the starting 5? I am not

Compared to All-NBA talents, they do. And let's not act like Thybulle is already an elite 3 and D guy. He's currently an offensive liability with an inconsistent jumper. Harris is also more of a scorer than a shooter, and wouldn't get many halfcourt possessions with Harden/Embiid... Leaving you with a minus defender that's an above average shooter for his position.

As for how you fill out the rest of the roster, Darryl Morey has been as good as anyone at mining talent out of seemingly nowhere. Plus we're coming off a year where Lebron/Davis just won a title with a bunch of scrap heap guys. I don't think its particularly hard to find fill in guys that range somewhere on the competency scale of 3+D, which is really all you'd need since you'd have at least one of those 3 guys on the floor at all times.

Ben fills the biggest hole between Jo/Harden, a guy that can push in transition, distribute and defend elite, big forwards.

Look if you still have ability to go out and get floor spacing afterwards by all means but I am not convinced we will. I am not arguing there isn't merit in having Simmons as a secondary ballhandler and rim roller. I just arguing what we would have to give up which is basically all our picks (at the least) and the rest of our young talent (Thybulle, Milton, Maxley) would make it almost impossible to fill out the roster. I also don't think he'd be happy in the role how many pts do you think he'd score next to Harden. I think you'd be surprised at what his production would be. I'll just lay it out there I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be a triple single. Butler when he was here didn't take the ball out of Simmons hands as often as you would think we have always tried to make it work with Simmons as the primary guy. All that changes with Harden he's a 40 usg type player and he is going to have a two man inside outside game going with Embiid whose a high usage player as well. Where is that going to leave Simmons? He may catch a lob a game and couple of rolls to the basket but many of his baskets are a result at him driving at defenses and backing down smaller defenders. With Embiid and Simmons getting their touches early in the shotclock I just don't see it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't think I will.

Also as far a team construction goes it would literally be Harden, Green and Curry as our floor spacers. As far as Thybulle goes he was an average 3PT shooter his rookie year I think he can be a knockdown one. His jumper isn't great but he doesn't need to be next to Harden. If he can hit open threes and provide elite level defense that is almost the perfect fit next to Harden even moreso then a secondary ballhandler while still making nothing on his rookie deal and while of course you'd like some semblance of all three so if I had any confidence that Simmons was going to develop a 3PT shot I'd be right with you and would tell Morey to move heaven and earth NOT to include him in any deal but Simmons seems hopeless in that regard so where Simmons game is at I am fine with him being in the deal. I'd like more as a return considering the packages other teams would be offering but I think an offer along those lines is best for both teams.

The Rockets get someone they could hopefully build around and try to develop some semblance of a midrange and 3PT shot. We get to keep our secondary pieces and our assets so if we need to go out and make a trade for a secondary ball-handler to play next to Harden we could.

Anyways I have spent enough time on this hypothetical and said everything I can. If you still disagree then we will just have to agree to disagree. The only thing I would add people have to stop coming after Tobias money yes he is overpaid but what he does is still valuable in todays NBA. He's still a 20-25M player easy hell Grant (easy to find 3D guys eh?) got 20M. We are going to be operating as an over the cap team regardless so if Philly ownership overpaid on his contract oh well. As far as I'm concerned he fits easy at PF. What doesn't get discussed is he is also a guy who can handle the ball and create his own looks, run a fast break, catch lobs and roll to the basket maybe not at the elite level of a simmons but still it's not like we would be left wanting in that regard.

I'll also say this I have much higher hopes of Harris reclaiming his form and getting back to the .400+ 3PT knock down shooter he was prior to the trade playing next to Harden then I ever have of Simmons developing a legit 3PT shot.

[76ciology]

I was wondering if adding these shooters do help us or prevent us from trading for Harden.

Harden has to play with not only shooters but guys who can also defend, because he is not as good of a defender than Ben. So trading Harden straight up for Ben, may have some “complimentary pieces” problem. Although, you can really live with it because we’ll still have Green and Thybulle. While Harden and Embiid is just too good

But then i realize.. if you are going to build around Ben Simmons and John Wall, you have to surround them with elite shooters like Seth Curry, korkmaz or Milton.