Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

[Dez]

I think the comment relates to Lauri not having meaningful trade value (i.e. a late lotto pick or better). If Lauri were released, would someone pick him up? Sure. Lauri has demonstrated that he's a prime Thad Young level player.

Yes it was referring to trade value, I'm kind of shocked someone had to point that out but you are correct.

Ah, the goal post has been moved. Now "no value" equals "no meaningful trade value"? Dez has several times in several treads repeatedly claimed "Lauri has no value", and that any MLE big player could fill his position; that is not even in the same ballpark as claiming "Lauri has no meaningful trade value", and I am kind of shocked somebody would attempt to claim that.

There is an old saying: "If you can't get up from the hole anymore, it might be time to stop digging."

Oh please there's been no goal post moving, it was clear I was talking about trade value.

[dougthonus]

Yes it was referring to trade value, I'm kind of shocked someone had to point that out but you are correct.

Ah, the goal post has been moved. Now "no value" equals "no meaningful trade value"? Dez has several times in several treads repeatedly claimed "Lauri has no value", and that any MLE big player could fill his position; that is not even in the same ballpark as claiming "Lauri has no meaningful trade value", and I am kind of shocked somebody would attempt to claim that.

There is an old saying: "If you can't get up from the hole anymore, it might be time to stop digging."

Oh please there's been no goal post moving, it was clear I was talking about trade value.

If I'm not mistaken, Swuul is from the Finnish fan base.

I don't know if the same thing is true in Finland, but I worked for a Dutch company, and I once had a guide of Dutch English to British/American English translation.

In Dutch English, "no value" would be taken extremely literally to mean exactly that. No value. In American English it would be taken contextually, and people would infer you meant trade value. This had all kinds of examples to it that caused business problems, and it was very difficult to get past, because what you meant was so clear to you and so clearly something else to the other person.

I don't know that Finland has the same type of thing going on, but I suspect it probably does, and that Swuul isn't trying to be difficult, but took what you said as the literal meaning without context, because that is how the language would be used in his area.

At any rate, yes, to me what you said would very clearly mean trade value, but having seen so many of these misinterpreted conversations take place, don't be surprised if this is a genuine misunderstanding rather than someone passive aggressively purposefully misinterpreting you.

Scroll to the very bottom of this page:
https://www.expatica.com/uk/working/employment-basics/dutch-british-business-102530/

It looks like this is a joke, but this is literally what it was like with my views almost exclusively being on the "British" side and my Dutch colleagues literally all taking things like in the Dutch side. If you put that type of context into this conversation, it all makes sense with no ill intentions.

Probably more than needed to be said on a message forum on this topic, just like bright people to get along.

[The Force.]

Again, I don't understand what position Lauri is supposed to play. He would've made a good stretch 4 ten years ago but he's way too slow to guard most 4s today. Likewise, you can't really play him at C considering his mediocre rim protection and shot blocking.

So honestly I see him as either a volume scorer on a bad team that isn't worried about defense. Or a 2nd unit center that provides a scoring punch for a good team.

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[ZOMG]

Again, I don't understand what position Lauri is supposed to play. He would've made a good stretch 4 ten years ago but he's way too slow to guard most 4s today. Likewise, you can't really play him at C considering his mediocre rim protection and shot blocking.

So honestly I see him as either a volume scorer on a bad team that isn't worried about defense. Or a 2nd unit center that provides a scoring punch for a good team.

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"Way too slow to guard most 4s today"???

What?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. First Lauri was "too slow" to guard 3's (so he can't be a SF), now he's "too slow" to guard 4's either so he can't be a PF... what's next?

Markkanen is probably our quickest big. He's had absolutely no trouble taking care of any of his assignments on the perimeter. He's held down point guards on occasion, FFS. He has more room to improve at team defense.

Once again, I have no problem if people want to discuss Lauri's true flaws. But rebounding and 1-on-1 D are not his flaws - unless you put him in an impossible position and tell him to guard the Andre Drummonds of the League under the basket. That's not his job.

[DorO]

Again, I don't understand what position Lauri is supposed to play. He would've made a good stretch 4 ten years ago but he's way too slow to guard most 4s today. Likewise, you can't really play him at C considering his mediocre rim protection and shot blocking.

So honestly I see him as either a volume scorer on a bad team that isn't worried about defense. Or a 2nd unit center that provides a scoring punch for a good team.

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This. It’s quite a catch up when many smaller players can score against your PF in almost every game. And there are 29 Cs to do the same which makes it difficult to hide him anywhere. How BD use Lauri will be very interesting and how much PT he’ll get under new regime, hopefully bit less than Jimbo time.

[sco]

Again, I don't understand what position Lauri is supposed to play. He would've made a good stretch 4 ten years ago but he's way too slow to guard most 4s today. Likewise, you can't really play him at C considering his mediocre rim protection and shot blocking.

So honestly I see him as either a volume scorer on a bad team that isn't worried about defense. Or a 2nd unit center that provides a scoring punch for a good team.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

"Way too slow to guard most 4s today"???

What?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. First Lauri was "too slow" to guard 3's (so he can't be a SF), now he's "too slow" to guard 4's either so he can't be a PF... what's next?

Markkanen is probably our quickest big. He's had absolutely no trouble taking care of any of his assignments on the perimeter. He's held down point guards on occasion, FFS. He has more room to improve at team defense.

Once again, I have no problem if people want to discuss Lauri's true flaws. But rebounding and 1-on-1 D are not his flaws - unless you put him in an impossible position and tell him to guard the Andre Drummonds of the League under the basket. That's not his job.

I think the way to give Lauri the best chance to succeed is for the Bulls to get away from hockey line substitutions and mix in starters with bench guys. I'd see Lauri and Coby with Val, PWill/Hutch, and DG working better for Lauri. Then you could go Sato, Zach, Otto, Thad/PWill, WC for other stretches.

[Dieselbound&Down]

If a player can only be average in certain line ups catered to his game, but below average the rest of the time, that player has minimal value. You don't let that player dictate rotations. You simple find a better player.

[sco]

If a player can only be average in certain line ups catered to his game, but below average the rest of the time, that player has minimal value. You don't let that player dictate rotations. You simple find a better player.

Sure, unless you are already committed to your roster for the season and can't trade that guy for anything useful. Then you use line-ups to maximize the good and minimize the limitations of your "key" guys.

[The Force.]

Again, I don't understand what position Lauri is supposed to play. He would've made a good stretch 4 ten years ago but he's way too slow to guard most 4s today. Likewise, you can't really play him at C considering his mediocre rim protection and shot blocking.

So honestly I see him as either a volume scorer on a bad team that isn't worried about defense. Or a 2nd unit center that provides a scoring punch for a good team.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

"Way too slow to guard most 4s today"???

What?

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. First Lauri was "too slow" to guard 3's (so he can't be a SF), now he's "too slow" to guard 4's either so he can't be a PF... what's next?

Markkanen is probably our quickest big. He's had absolutely no trouble taking care of any of his assignments on the perimeter. He's held down point guards on occasion, FFS. He has more room to improve at team defense.

Once again, I have no problem if people want to discuss Lauri's true flaws. But rebounding and 1-on-1 D are not his flaws - unless you put him in an impossible position and tell him to guard the Andre Drummonds of the League under the basket. That's not his job.

I mean, Lauri is decent at guarding traditional 4's like John Collins and Serge Ibaka but when teams go small I worry about his chances against guys like Luka, Siakam, Tatum, Aaron Gordon, etc. Teams tend to go small in 4th quarters and the league's top players just so happen to play the 3/4 position. I don't see him being a good long term fit at 4 if we expect to stop anyone defensively.

Likewise, he also struggles offensively against smaller 4's. IMO Lauri's ideal position is center where he can feast on mismatches all night. But again, if Lauri is your starting center, good luck keeping anyone out of the paint.

[TallDude]

Aaron Gordon is 6 year veteran He is 3-4 years under his belt. I like him. But no match for Lauri. Even statwise.

[sco]

It will be interesting to see how Otto's return impacts Lauri. A healthy Otto could be a more important part of the Bulls offense. That would likely result in fewer shots, but less defensive attention for Lauri. Add to that, Coby starting will both draw defensive attention, but reduce shots for Lauri.

That said, in looking at his shot attempts per game, I was surprised that he was only taking 12/game, down from 15 the prior year. Interestingly, Coby went from 11 shots per game to 19 post ASG.

[dougthonus]

ESPN doesn't have Lauri as a top 100 player this year. That means (in ESPN's opinion), if he were player #101 which is a generous assumption, he would be an average 4th best player on a team if talent were evenly distributed across the league perfectly (not even the best 4th best player, but a middle of the pack 4th best player) and not 4th best on an above average team, but 4th best on an average team.

[Swuul]

ESPN doesn't have Lauri as a top 100 player this year. That means (in ESPN's opinion), if he were player #101 which is a generous assumption, he would be an average 4th best player on a team if talent were evenly distributed across the league perfectly (not even the best 4th best player, but a middle of the pack 4th best player) and not 4th best on an above average team, but 4th best on an average team.

Which three (3) Bulls players made it to the ESPN list?

[dougthonus]

ESPN doesn't have Lauri as a top 100 player this year. That means (in ESPN's opinion), if he were player #101 which is a generous assumption, he would be an average 4th best player on a team if talent were evenly distributed across the league perfectly (not even the best 4th best player, but a middle of the pack 4th best player) and not 4th best on an above average team, but 4th best on an average team.

Which three (3) Bulls players made it to the ESPN list?

Only 2 did, Zach and Otto.

[FranchisePlayer]

ESPN doesn't have Lauri as a top 100 player this year. That means (in ESPN's opinion), if he were player #101 which is a generous assumption, he would be an average 4th best player on a team if talent were evenly distributed across the league perfectly (not even the best 4th best player, but a middle of the pack 4th best player) and not 4th best on an above average team, but 4th best on an average team.

Which three (3) Bulls players made it to the ESPN list?

Only 2 did, Zach and Otto.

That doesn't sound like a very educated list then...

[dougthonus]

That doesn't sound like a very educated list then...

I'm also surprised Otto made it, they are definitely giving him credit for "healthy Otto" to some degree.

[FranchisePlayer]

That doesn't sound like a very educated list then...

I'm also surprised Otto made it, they are definitely giving him credit for "healthy Otto" to some degree.

My presumption probably every time I see these type of lists is "oh, now they've ranked players who are hot now" and every time I'm left disappointed.

In what time span do they evaluate players? Otto has probably looked like a TOP100 player in 20 games in two seasons with us.

[dougthonus]

That doesn't sound like a very educated list then...

I'm also surprised Otto made it, they are definitely giving him credit for "healthy Otto" to some degree.

My presumption probably every time I see these type of lists is "oh, now they've ranked players who are hot now" and every time I'm left disappointed.

In what time span do they evaluate players? Otto has probably looked like a TOP100 player in 20 games in two seasons with us.

I think the view is top 100 players going into this season. I also think Otto was ranked high on this list, and no list like this is ever going to have widespread acceptance anyway. However, it is a more or less a neutral source list, which is probably more reasonable than one with an inherent bias built into it by a specific fan base.

[ZOMG]

That doesn't sound like a very educated list then...

I'm also surprised Otto made it, they are definitely giving him credit for "healthy Otto" to some degree.

My presumption probably every time I see these type of lists is "oh, now they've ranked players who are hot now" and every time I'm left disappointed.

In what time span do they evaluate players? Otto has probably looked like a TOP100 player in 20 games in two seasons with us.

When Otto is healthy and looks like he cares about basketball, hes a Top 100 player. That hasn't happened very often lately.

When Lauri turns into FebruLauri, he's easily a Top 100 player. That hasn't happened very often lately either.

It's a joke Otto is on this list.

[FranchisePlayer]

I'm also surprised Otto made it, they are definitely giving him credit for "healthy Otto" to some degree.

My presumption probably every time I see these type of lists is "oh, now they've ranked players who are hot now" and every time I'm left disappointed.

In what time span do they evaluate players? Otto has probably looked like a TOP100 player in 20 games in two seasons with us.

When Otto is healthy and looks like he cares about basketball, hes a Top 100 player. That hasn't happened very often lately.

When Lauri turns into FebruLauri, he's easily a Top 100 player. That hasn't happened very often lately either.

It's a joke Otto is on this list.

Yeah, that list doesn't seem to follow it's own logic if and when they rank the players according to their best performances ages ago. Woulda shoulda coulda.