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[MrFortune3]

I lien on the players side for most of these issues but in the next CBA they need to put in a reverse trade kicker for anyone who demands a trade. This stuff is getting ridiculous. They're top paid professionals.

A great player tips the scales so much that it gives them so much power to move around.

I agree with you 100%. But I think a reverse trade kicker would be a universal smack by owners as a whole and would cut down these demands with more than a year left. Putting that in the CBA would send a message.

It wouldn't matter. Players would just add more opt out years so once traded they could opt out early and recoup the money.
Most don't even give a **** about losing the SuperMax.

[TheStig]

I could not have been more against drafting Porter than I was. And I don’t give it a single thought to this day. Passing on him made by far the most sense at the time and hindsight second guessing the logical call has never been worth my time.

But he seems like a good dude, so I’m happy for him and Denver. Hope he stays healthy.

I always thought we should have traded down from 21 to get him if we could work a deal. 7 was too rich.

[fleet]

I could not have been more against drafting Porter than I was. And I don’t give it a single thought to this day. Passing on him made by far the most sense at the time and hindsight second guessing the logical call has never been worth my time.

But he seems like a good dude, so I’m happy for him and Denver. Hope he stays healthy.

The logic is not as clear as all that. In a deeper better quality draft, that would be the case. In this example, after the first 6 players the draft was exceedingly weak, and as such, the penalty for taking a errant flyer on MPJ wasn't bad at all. Risk factor subject to interpretation and personal tolerance.

[RedBulls23]

I could not have been more against drafting Porter than I was. And I don’t give it a single thought to this day. Passing on him made by far the most sense at the time and hindsight second guessing the logical call has never been worth my time.

But he seems like a good dude, so I’m happy for him and Denver. Hope he stays healthy.

The logic is not as clear as all that. In a deeper better quality draft, that would be the case. In this example, after the first 6 players the draft was exceedingly weak, and as such, the penalty for taking a errant flyer on MPJ wasn't bad at all. Risk factor subject to interpretation and personal tolerance.

Well we don't really know that yet. I still think Wendell has more potential in his game, and we're still not certain MPJs back will hold on.

[ZOMG]

It's ridiciulous to claim MPJ is somehow out of the woods. We've never seen him get through the rigors of a full NBA season, with no minutes restrictions. He MIGHT be fine, who knows. But I don't think any team who passed on him is kicking themselves right now. You take risks, sometimes they're worth it and sometimes they backfire.

[RSP83]

I'm not losing any sleep over passing Porter. Sure we could've taken the risk, but his high risk was more than justified.

[dougthonus]

I lien on the players side for most of these issues but in the next CBA they need to put in a reverse trade kicker for anyone who demands a trade. This stuff is getting ridiculous. They're top paid professionals.

I don't know if there is any way to solve the problem of superstars demanding a trade.
1: Non Guaranteed contracts - So what, you aren't going to waive the guy as you'll get more in trade.
2: Reverse Trade Kicker - No way to validate it legally. Guys would just demand trades in more passive aggressive ways.

From a conduct perspective, I think there is no way to legislate good conduct inside the CBA. There's no way to force effort, because once you define it, people can do the minimum and then just be jerks in other ways.

Best scenario for teams is likely if they put a franchise tag in there so that you can make your superstar a restricted free agent twice in his career with you (maybe they give up automatic FA on 1st round picks to pass this), then your team, at a minimum, always has leverage to get something in return even if it doesn't stop the trade demands and resolves the Milwaukee situation where they need to win now, trade Giannis now, or potentially lose him for nothing next year.

The tag system might be better for both sides:
1: It accomplishes what RFA is really supposed to which is to try and keep superstars and isn't used to strong arm average players because the QO is so low for a lot of these guys to want to play on that one year deal.

2: You have to actually pay someone you franchise massive money instead of the 1 year QOs which are so cheap players don't want to take them whereas NBA players would probably reasonably play under a franchise tag if they wanted out. Would make the Franchise Tag salary the max for whatever years of service the player has. This makes playing under the tag a lot less painful than playing under the QO, so the player isn't screwed financially, but the team still has some control.

3: Teams are in better position to actually get a valuable return for a player if things don't work out with a superstar and it takes away some of that leverage that star player has in terms of forcing a trade or "walking for nothing" in a year. Teams would always have to come to the table for trades.

[dougthonus]

It wouldn't matter. Players would just add more opt out years so once traded they could opt out early and recoup the money.
Most don't even give a **** about losing the SuperMax.

You can only have one player option year in the current CBA if I'm not mistaken.

I agree in general though, if you are a superstar player, we have seen the supermax isn't really meaningful. The NBA would be better without it. We've seen that it doesn't entice legit super duper stars to stay and only causes small market teams to overpay even more for non super duper stars.

The good news for everyone is the NBA is making serious bank. That means the players are paid a ton more, but the owners are also making a ton more too. You no longer need to be a superstar or even a star to be generationally wealthy. A 10 year MLE guy is making 100M dollars now.

[ZOMG]

I lien on the players side for most of these issues but in the next CBA they need to put in a reverse trade kicker for anyone who demands a trade. This stuff is getting ridiculous. They're top paid professionals.

I don't know if there is any way to solve the problem of superstars demanding a trade.
1: Non Guaranteed contracts - So what, you aren't going to waive the guy as you'll get more in trade.
2: Reverse Trade Kicker - No way to validate it legally. Guys would just demand trades in more passive aggressive ways.

From a conduct perspective, I think there is no way to legislate good conduct inside the CBA. There's no way to force effort, because once you define it, people can do the minimum and then just be jerks in other ways.

Owners need to grow a collective backbone. Stop handing out long mega deals to guys you fully expect to get "disgruntled" in two years and demand a trade. Yeah, it's easy to say that if you don't do it, the next guy will... and for a while, that's what will happen. But it won't last long once these dudes have ruined their reputations and seen that their actions have consequences.

One thing is sure: it can't go on like this. It's so bad for the League and its business interests that something will be done.

[cjbulls]

I could not have been more against drafting Porter than I was. And I don’t give it a single thought to this day. Passing on him made by far the most sense at the time and hindsight second guessing the logical call has never been worth my time.

But he seems like a good dude, so I’m happy for him and Denver. Hope he stays healthy.

The logic is not as clear as all that. In a deeper better quality draft, that would be the case. In this example, after the first 6 players the draft was exceedingly weak, and as such, the penalty for taking a errant flyer on MPJ wasn't bad at all. Risk factor subject to interpretation and personal tolerance.

The scary part of the MPJ pick hasn’t come through yet. You’re going to have to sign him to an extension and then hope he works out while he ties up a big chunk of your cap.

Back injuries are always a threat and a real hindrance for a team like the Nuggets that can’t really afford to make a mistake with their cap.

[sco]

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Happy for Shaq, but I would have preferred to keep him than Val.

[Hangtime84]

I could not have been more against drafting Porter than I was. And I don’t give it a single thought to this day. Passing on him made by far the most sense at the time and hindsight second guessing the logical call has never been worth my time.

But he seems like a good dude, so I’m happy for him and Denver. Hope he stays healthy.

The logic is not as clear as all that. In a deeper better quality draft, that would be the case. In this example, after the first 6 players the draft was exceedingly weak, and as such, the penalty for taking a errant flyer on MPJ wasn't bad at all. Risk factor subject to interpretation and personal tolerance.

The scary part of the MPJ pick hasn’t come through yet. You’re going to have to sign him to an extension and then hope he works out while he ties up a big chunk of your cap.

Back injuries are always a threat and a real hindrance for a team like the Nuggets that can’t really afford to make a mistake with their cap.

If I'm Denver I'm selling high on porter

[sco]

Harden adding Heat and Bucks to list. Both teams are motivated. I wonder if they would include either Holiday or Middleton in deal? Would Herro, Robinson and Nunn be enough?

Denver is the team who might have enough pieces to be interesting, if Harden adds them.

[DuckIII]

I admire James Harden’s willingness to be flexible with his trade demands. He’s lowered himself to including the EC champions and arguably the best team in the NBA. What a competitor.

[troza]

Harden adding Heat and Bucks to list. Both teams are motivated. I wonder if they would include either Holiday or Middleton in deal? Would Herro, Robinson and Nunn be enough?

Denver is the team who might have enough pieces to be interesting, if Harden adds them.

I don't know if the Bucks will do it (didn't Harden and Giannis have a beef?) but the Heat... I don't see Pat Riley not going for him if he can.

And, of course, no Bulls on the list as expected.


About the players and them staying in their original teams: make them being able to receive more money without it going all for the cap space. What I mean is... a guy that is on the team that drafted him and never left can receive more money than max but for the CAP it would count the max. While on other teams he must only receive the max with that contract and everything would be on the CAP.

I don't know if this makes any sense as I never tried to fully understand the financial system of the NBA besides the point that if a player gets less money on the contract then the team will have more cap space for a big signing.

One risk is obviously that the max is still high enough that players wouldn't care and still move on to try to win. Perfectly legit. Or, if they could receive that much, then the players could just focus on the money and it would make the free agency a lot more boring, the clubs with less ways to actually make an exciting move... and it can mean that some people that are in the NBA business would lose big money.

So, it is probably just a very stupid idea.

Other idea is the hard cap with hard rules about the contracts so that a player with certain accolades would have a range on possible salaries so that it would never be that low (at negotiation, then it would stay so that sudden improvements or drops would mean the same today) or that high but a team with multiple stars would mean less depth and less quality from the bench. That would make the super team concept a little bit more fair. And the hard cap so that these teams would never be together for that long. Imagine the Warriors situation... they would form but at the time of extension's negotiation they had to make trades or let go some stars so that they were never above the cap.

But that's probably another stupid idea.

So... two stupid ideas... and are probably my best ones... I must stop here because if I come up with another would make even less sense.

[Southpaw]

Does the Heat even have big enough contracts to do a Harden trade? Harden under Riley would be interesting but I'm not sure he's the type of player Riley wants. The Bucks could do Middleton + filler, don't think that's enough for HOU and the Bucks can't trade anymore picks.

[TheStig]

I lien on the players side for most of these issues but in the next CBA they need to put in a reverse trade kicker for anyone who demands a trade. This stuff is getting ridiculous. They're top paid professionals.

I don't know if there is any way to solve the problem of superstars demanding a trade.
1: Non Guaranteed contracts - So what, you aren't going to waive the guy as you'll get more in trade.
2: Reverse Trade Kicker - No way to validate it legally. Guys would just demand trades in more passive aggressive ways.

From a conduct perspective, I think there is no way to legislate good conduct inside the CBA. There's no way to force effort, because once you define it, people can do the minimum and then just be jerks in other ways.

Best scenario for teams is likely if they put a franchise tag in there so that you can make your superstar a restricted free agent twice in his career with you (maybe they give up automatic FA on 1st round picks to pass this), then your team, at a minimum, always has leverage to get something in return even if it doesn't stop the trade demands and resolves the Milwaukee situation where they need to win now, trade Giannis now, or potentially lose him for nothing next year.

The tag system might be better for both sides:
1: It accomplishes what RFA is really supposed to which is to try and keep superstars and isn't used to strong arm average players because the QO is so low for a lot of these guys to want to play on that one year deal.

2: You have to actually pay someone you franchise massive money instead of the 1 year QOs which are so cheap players don't want to take them whereas NBA players would probably reasonably play under a franchise tag if they wanted out. Would make the Franchise Tag salary the max for whatever years of service the player has. This makes playing under the tag a lot less painful than playing under the QO, so the player isn't screwed financially, but the team still has some control.

3: Teams are in better position to actually get a valuable return for a player if things don't work out with a superstar and it takes away some of that leverage that star player has in terms of forcing a trade or "walking for nothing" in a year. Teams would always have to come to the table for trades.

Don't you only get a couple of tags though? And they can still hold out like they do in the NFL.

The reverse trade kicker will not eliminate a trade request. But it will eliminate the drama and foolishness and public spectacle of it. Removing the drama and aggressive nature will make it that the franchise doesn't have it's hand forced well in advance and held hostage. The players will have to remain professional and honor their deal or it will cost them 15%. It will give the franchise some time to see if things can be fixed during the year or do a deal like the PG13 deal.

[TheStig]

Does the Heat even have big enough contracts to do a Harden trade? Harden under Riley would be interesting but I'm not sure he's the type of player Riley wants. The Bucks could do Middleton + filler, don't think that's enough for HOU and the Bucks can't trade anymore picks.

Absolutely, Dragic, Iggy, Leonard works to match salaries. Just got to add Herro, Nunn, precious and every 1st and swap they'll ever have. Then you got Harden, Butler, Bradley and Bam.

[TheStig]

Harden adding Heat and Bucks to list. Both teams are motivated. I wonder if they would include either Holiday or Middleton in deal? Would Herro, Robinson and Nunn be enough?

Denver is the team who might have enough pieces to be interesting, if Harden adds them.

Houston wants tons of picks. Bucks gave away every pick and swap they'll ever have.

And they never had the assets to get Harden. They have no young players or good picks.

[Southpaw]

Does the Heat even have big enough contracts to do a Harden trade? Harden under Riley would be interesting but I'm not sure he's the type of player Riley wants. The Bucks could do Middleton + filler, don't think that's enough for HOU and the Bucks can't trade anymore picks.

Absolutely, Dragic, Iggy, Leonard works to match salaries. Just got to add Herro, Nunn, precious and every 1st and swap they'll ever have. Then you got Harden, Butler, Bradley and Bam.

Didn't they just resign Dragic? Do we know when he can be traded?