Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[nate33]

I'll wait and see if Bol Bol does anything in the real NBA before I get too excited. There are virtually no examples of guys with that body type succeeding in the NBA.

[doclinkin]

Admiral played pretty well for Tennessee & in a very competitive conference. Not great, but some things to like -- he was a very good 3-point shooter, especially as a Senior. & he is a big, strong kid.

As far as passing on Bol Bol, when I wrote:

I don't know how you don't take a chance on that kid if you have a shot at him with the #42 pick....

I didn't mean to point a specific criticism at Tommy or his staff. A bunch of teams passed on Bol to take guys who haven't worked out (at least so far). The draft is always like that. Guys are never ever picked in order of how good they actually turn out to be. The ability to predict is limited, & chance is a big factor as well.

Apparently where Admiral failed with the Wizards, to hear how Adkins hints at it, was effort on defense.

[gambitx777]

Look I don't think you can bash anyone on missing on a pick in a thin second round and not picking a guy almost every other gm skipped on once if not twice.

Also the PG contract won't age well.

Also, also, if I'm the 76ers right now I'm playing hard to get but I'm giving up ben simmons for James harden in A nanosecond. Embid and harden in the east will be an issue and if the nets implode and with kyrie that's likely. I think they have a real shot of coming out of the east. Ben simmons can't and won't shoot. But he is looked at as the second coming of lebron and you might get away with harden for simmons and maybe not give up much else. Maybe a first and some pick swaps and some seconds, which who cares at that point. No other team on that list of hardens has the assets.

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[pcbothwel]

Agreed. The Embiid fit is obvious, but Tobias would have a clear role as a 3rd scorer and fits him well.
My focus if im Philly:
Keep Maxey and Thybulle. Thybulle and Green will be PERFECT compliments to Harden as 3 and D wings.
Maxey has a Harden type offensive game. Not explosive, but savvy, quick, draws fouls and finishes through contact. If you want to see how good Maxey can be, let him be the lead guard off the bench for the next two year learning from Harden. He is also a dog on defense.

Isaiah Joe, Ferguson, Milton, Bradley etc.... who cares

[gambitx777]

Ben simmons is 24 and most of the league considers him the second lebron. So that deal is close as is now the money has to work. Mike scott and simmons for harden works money wise. 2021 second from the Knicks , 2022 first and two 2023 seconds and pick swaps in 21, 23.that way you give them a good bit of draft capital they get the covited 2022 draft pick. And the get Ben simmons.

Agreed. The Embiid fit is obvious, but Tobias would have a clear role as a 3rd scorer and fits him well.
My focus if im Philly:
Keep Maxey and Thybulle. Thybulle and Green will be PERFECT compliments to Harden as 3 and D wings.
Maxey has a Harden type offensive game. Not explosive, but savvy, quick, draws fouls and finishes through contact. If you want to see how good Maxey can be, let him be the lead guard off the bench for the next two year learning from Harden. He is also a dog on defense.

Isaiah Joe, Ferguson, Milton, Bradley etc.... who cares

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[nate33]

If I'm Philly, I'm holding out until the deal is just Simmons + Scott for Harden. No picks.

Simmons is 24 and under contract for the next 5 years. Harden is 31, disgruntled, and under contract for just 2. Yeah, Harden is better than Simmons, but this isn't exactly a no-brainer for Philly. Besides, who is going to give a better offer? Simmons alone is still a better package than the poo-poo platter from Brooklyn featuring Allen (about to be expensive), Lavert (overpaid), Dimwiddie (expiring), and a handful of very late future 1sts.

[pcbothwel]

Ben simmons is 24 and most of the league considers him the second lebron. So that deal is close as is now the money has to work. Mike scott and simmons for harden works money wise. 2021 second from the Knicks , 2022 first and two 2023 seconds and pick swaps in 21, 23.that way you give them a good bit of draft capital they get the covited 2022 draft pick. And the get Ben simmons.

Agreed. The Embiid fit is obvious, but Tobias would have a clear role as a 3rd scorer and fits him well.
My focus if im Philly:
Keep Maxey and Thybulle. Thybulle and Green will be PERFECT compliments to Harden as 3 and D wings.
Maxey has a Harden type offensive game. Not explosive, but savvy, quick, draws fouls and finishes through contact. If you want to see how good Maxey can be, let him be the lead guard off the bench for the next two year learning from Harden. He is also a dog on defense.

Isaiah Joe, Ferguson, Milton, Bradley etc.... who cares

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Please dont diminish Lebron by comparing him to Ben Simmons.
Ben Simmons is certainly a better defender...and thats it
At 24, Lebron was a career 47/33/74 shooter with a BPM of 8.6 on a usage of 32%. He won the MVP and had 5 All-NBA awards (3 1st and 2 2nds)
At 24, Simmons is a career 46/8/59 shooter with a BPM of 3.9 on a usage of 22%. He has 1 All-NBA award (3rd team)

Simmons needs to be the best player on his own team before he worries about competing with the best player to lace em up.

[payitforward]

Ben simmons is 24 and most of the league considers him the second lebron....

Please dont diminish Lebron by comparing him to Ben Simmons.
Ben Simmons is certainly a better defender...and thats it
At 24, Lebron was a career 47/33/74 shooter with a BPM of 8.6 on a usage of 32%. He won the MVP and had 5 All-NBA awards (3 1st and 2 2nds)
At 24, Simmons is a career 46/8/59 shooter with a BPM of 3.9 on a usage of 22%. He has 1 All-NBA award (3rd team)

Simmons needs to be the best player on his own team before he worries about competing with the best player to lace em up.

Why are you getting on Ben Simmons? Did he compare himself with LeBron?

Ben Simmons is the best player on his team -- by far.

You really think you can ding him by simply quoting his scoring percentages? (Not that you would be able to praise him that way!)

Ben Simmons is not LeBron -- you are right. No one is. But, he's one of the top half dozen players in the game. & he's only played 3 years.

[pcbothwel]

Ben simmons is 24 and most of the league considers him the second lebron....

Please dont diminish Lebron by comparing him to Ben Simmons.
Ben Simmons is certainly a better defender...and thats it
At 24, Lebron was a career 47/33/74 shooter with a BPM of 8.6 on a usage of 32%. He won the MVP and had 5 All-NBA awards (3 1st and 2 2nds)
At 24, Simmons is a career 46/8/59 shooter with a BPM of 3.9 on a usage of 22%. He has 1 All-NBA award (3rd team)

Simmons needs to be the best player on his own team before he worries about competing with the best player to lace em up.

Why are you getting on Ben Simmons? Did he compare himself with LeBron?

Ben Simmons is the best player on his team -- by far.

You really think you can ding him by simply quoting his scoring percentages? (Not that you would be able to praise him that way!)

Ben Simmons is not LeBron -- you are right. No one is. But, he's one of the top half dozen players in the game. & he's only played 3 years.

PIF... Ben Simmons is a top 6 player in the league?!?... thats your assertion?
Giannis, Harden, Kawhi, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Lillard, Butler, Anthony Davis, Paul George, Middleton, Tatum, KAT, Beal.

Please list the 10 players out of that list he is better than. I'll wait.

[tontoz]

Simmons does a lot of things well but he can't shoot and that is kind of important in this game.

This past season he shot 6-37 outside 10 feet. He shot 36.5% from 3-10 feet.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01/shooting/2020

That is probably why his +/- was so weak for someone considered a good player. He was actually a net negative on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1920/19PHI3.HTM#onoff

[nate33]

Simmons is not a top 6 player. But he is a deserved All-Star and he made All-NBA last year, which suggests he's a top 15-20 player (several better players were hurt)

I rank the following players as definitely better:

Lebron
Kawhi
Giannis
Doncic
Durant
Harden
Davis
Lillard
Curry
Butler
Jokic
Tatum

That's 12, assuming Curry and Durant are 90% of their former selves.

I think Ben is in the next tier of guys including:

Paul George
Beal
Anthony-Towns
Embiid
Gobert
Adebayo
Chris Paul
Booker
Paul G

So that puts him somewhere between 13 and 22.

[tontoz]

If Simmons was here instead of westbrook I think his positives would be more apparent and his weak shooting would be less of a problem.

He is just an awful fit with embiid. Those two need to be broken up.

[payitforward]

Please dont diminish Lebron by comparing him to Ben Simmons.
Ben Simmons is certainly a better defender...and thats it
At 24, Lebron was a career 47/33/74 shooter with a BPM of 8.6 on a usage of 32%. He won the MVP and had 5 All-NBA awards (3 1st and 2 2nds)
At 24, Simmons is a career 46/8/59 shooter with a BPM of 3.9 on a usage of 22%. He has 1 All-NBA award (3rd team)

Simmons needs to be the best player on his own team before he worries about competing with the best player to lace em up.

Why are you getting on Ben Simmons? Did he compare himself with LeBron?

Ben Simmons is the best player on his team -- by far.

You really think you can ding him by simply quoting his scoring percentages? (Not that you would be able to praise him that way!)

Ben Simmons is not LeBron -- you are right. No one is. But, he's one of the top half dozen players in the game. & he's only played 3 years.

PIF... Ben Simmons is a top 6 player in the league?!?... thats your assertion?
Giannis, Harden, Kawhi, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Lillard, Butler, Anthony Davis, Paul George, Middleton, Tatum, KAT, Beal.

Please list the 10 players out of that list he is better than. I'll wait.

Fine. He's in the top dozen players in the league -- does that make you happier?

Plus, because bigs always put up better raw numbers than smalls, I don't judge them by raw numbers.

As to your list, he's certainly better than Beal, Middleton, PG (at this point in his career), KAT, Tatum, & a few others.

Moreover, since your list skews extraordinarily towards high scorers (thus KAT but no Gobert, who is by far the better player), it's kind of obvious why Simmons doesn't rank high with you.

But, I only list names like this, so that you don't conclude that I was unwilling to respond to your challenge ("Please list..."). I'm not interested in an argument with you -- about this point or any other.

If you don't like Ben Simmons, I'm not going to change your mind. & if you think Bradley Beal (terrific player though he is) ranks among the top dozen players in the NBA, I'm not going to change your mind about that either (see above, under "skews... towards high scoers").

Rather than a pointless (b/c unresolvable) dispute, I'm a lot more interested in the positive stuff that we all seem to feel about this upcoming season for the Washington Wizards.

[gambitx777]

I'm don't like simmons but that's the perception of him around the league. He's good really good and you give that kid a jumper he is a lebron. If I was philly I'd jump on it.

Ben simmons is 24 and most of the league considers him the second lebron. So that deal is close as is now the money has to work. Mike scott and simmons for harden works money wise. 2021 second from the Knicks , 2022 first and two 2023 seconds and pick swaps in 21, 23.that way you give them a good bit of draft capital they get the covited 2022 draft pick. And the get Ben simmons.

Agreed. The Embiid fit is obvious, but Tobias would have a clear role as a 3rd scorer and fits him well.
My focus if im Philly:
Keep Maxey and Thybulle. Thybulle and Green will be PERFECT compliments to Harden as 3 and D wings.
Maxey has a Harden type offensive game. Not explosive, but savvy, quick, draws fouls and finishes through contact. If you want to see how good Maxey can be, let him be the lead guard off the bench for the next two year learning from Harden. He is also a dog on defense.

Isaiah Joe, Ferguson, Milton, Bradley etc.... who cares

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Please dont diminish Lebron by comparing him to Ben Simmons.
Ben Simmons is certainly a better defender...and thats it
At 24, Lebron was a career 47/33/74 shooter with a BPM of 8.6 on a usage of 32%. He won the MVP and had 5 All-NBA awards (3 1st and 2 2nds)
At 24, Simmons is a career 46/8/59 shooter with a BPM of 3.9 on a usage of 22%. He has 1 All-NBA award (3rd team)

Simmons needs to be the best player on his own team before he worries about competing with the best player to lace em up.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

It's not just shooting. Ben doesn't attack the rim enough to be "LeBron without a jumper."

And he's not a bad fit with Embiid at all. Embiid sat on the perimeter for Ben. There's nothing you can really do to force Ben to be aggressive offensively.

As a secondary ball handling PF that's *absolutely* fine. But when you demand to close games with the ball in your hand then it's a problem, and them putting the ball into Butlers hands instead of his nearly got them past the Kawhi Raptors. Butler didn't want to be in a situation where the obvious move to win had to be forced instead of embraced and so he bailed, with good reason.

[dckingsfan]

If I'm Philly, I'm holding out until the deal is just Simmons + Scott for Harden. No picks.

Simmons is 24 and under contract for the next 5 years. Harden is 31, disgruntled, and under contract for just 2. Yeah, Harden is better than Simmons, but this isn't exactly a no-brainer for Philly. Besides, who is going to give a better offer? Simmons alone is still a better package than the poo-poo platter from Brooklyn featuring Allen (about to be expensive), Lavert (overpaid), Dimwiddie (expiring), and a handful of very late future 1sts.

Is there a trade that makes both teams even better but without picks?

[gambitx777]

Nope, I think Ben simmons is the best player they can get, now if wall and boggie are playing well at the break maybe you can move them for something, then you rebuild around simmons and wood but you can trade wood too maybe move gordon and rebuild around simmons.

If I'm Philly, I'm holding out until the deal is just Simmons + Scott for Harden. No picks.

Simmons is 24 and under contract for the next 5 years. Harden is 31, disgruntled, and under contract for just 2. Yeah, Harden is better than Simmons, but this isn't exactly a no-brainer for Philly. Besides, who is going to give a better offer? Simmons alone is still a better package than the poo-poo platter from Brooklyn featuring Allen (about to be expensive), Lavert (overpaid), Dimwiddie (expiring), and a handful of very late future 1sts.

Is there a trade that makes both teams even better but without picks?

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[dckingsfan]

Nope, I think Ben simmons is the best player they can get, now if wall and boggie are playing well at the break maybe you can move them for something, then you rebuild around simmons and wood but you can trade wood too maybe move gordon and rebuild around simmons.

If I'm Philly, I'm holding out until the deal is just Simmons + Scott for Harden. No picks.

Simmons is 24 and under contract for the next 5 years. Harden is 31, disgruntled, and under contract for just 2. Yeah, Harden is better than Simmons, but this isn't exactly a no-brainer for Philly. Besides, who is going to give a better offer? Simmons alone is still a better package than the poo-poo platter from Brooklyn featuring Allen (about to be expensive), Lavert (overpaid), Dimwiddie (expiring), and a handful of very late future 1sts.

Is there a trade that makes both teams even better but without picks?

My bad, is there a trade that includes Simmons and Harden between Philly and Houston that optimizes the trade for both teams (that doesn't include picks)?

[nate33]

My bad, is there a trade that includes Simmons and Harden between Philly and Houston that optimizes the trade for both teams (that doesn't include picks)?

I don't understand the question.

There is no Harden trade that will be "optimized" for Houston because Harden is demanding a trade and forcing Houston's hand. Houston is merely going to get the best offer on the table, which is unlikely to be a "fair" offer commensurate with Harden's worth.

I think a Harden for Simmons is a pretty good deal under the circumstances. It brings Houston a young building block and it brings Philly the best perimeter offensive player in the game. Incorporating a Danny Green for PJ Tucker swap would balance the salaries and roster of each team.

[pcbothwel]

Nope, I think Ben simmons is the best player they can get, now if wall and boggie are playing well at the break maybe you can move them for something, then you rebuild around simmons and wood but you can trade wood too maybe move gordon and rebuild around simmons.

Is there a trade that makes both teams even better but without picks?

My bad, is there a trade that includes Simmons and Harden between Philly and Houston that optimizes the trade for both teams (that doesn't include picks)?

I'd say Simmons, Maxey, Fergusons, Scott, Bradley for Harden + Tucker.
Philly:
Harden / Curry
Green / Curry
Thybulle / Tucker
Harris / Tucker
Embiid / Howard

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