Let us please talk about someone who [imo] is one of the most underrated players of his era. Outside of RealGM, I don't know of a single source that has ranked him inside the top 30 [and many lock him out of even the top 35]. And yet some of these same sources will rank Hakeem in the top 10. How do we justify such a divide?
Mostly, Hakeem's got the narrative ("led a bunch of scrubs/role players/[insert your description] to a title").
I think it's often forgotten how close that was to being EWING'S NARRATIVE.
That '94 Finals went 7 games, and the Knicks actually outscored the Rockets by 6 pts in it. Not a single one of the Knick losses were by more than 7 pts (while their wins were by 8, 9, and 7, respectively).
The Knicks were leading that series 3-2, and had a chance to win game 6 (this was Hakeem's famous block of John Starks).
In game 7, it basically took John Starks having the single-worst shooting night of his entire life [in game 7 of the finals, can you imagine? Must be a basketball player's worst nightmare] for the Rockets to win. Starks was
0 for 11 from downtown, and only 2 of 18 total from the field. He finished with 8 pts on 20.2% TS.......this is their 2nd option. The Knicks lost the game by 6. This was a Paul George in game 7 against the Nuggets level collapse.
It's not hard to imagine a scenario where Starks shoots merely "kinda bad" (like 5 of 18 from the field [either 2 or 3 of 11 from trey].....which is still only 40.5-43.0% TS), and the Knicks winning. But he didn't just shoot "kinda bad"; he didn't just shoot "REALLY bad"; he shot "omg so horrid I just want to crawl into a hole and die bad".....and the Knicks lost a close one.
btw, I don't want to sound like I'm dumping all over Starks here; he'd played a fantastic series up that point, and is a big factor in why they made it that far. jsia.....if he could have managed just one more merely "not horrid" performance, the Knicks have a title [and Ewing has a FMVP].
There's not a list in the world that doesn't have Ewing in the top 30 [and probably one or two that have him in the top 20] if Starks shoots better that night. It was that close to re-writing the narrative on TWO all-timers.
To some degree Ewing's playoff record haunts him [perhaps justifiably so]. Though I'll point out in this instance where they came about as close as you can come to a title without getting it, Ewing led the team in playoff PER, WS/48, and BPM [while also leading the team in mpg].
In a more general sense, I read sentiment that it's hard to build a seriously GOOD team around Patrick Ewing [subtext: because he's just not good enough to do it easily].
To those who share that sentiment it should be pointed out that the Knicks went to the playoffs
13 consecutive years while built primarily around Patrick Ewing, losing in the 1st round
only twice. They went as far as the conference finals FOUR times, making it to the finals TWICE (and again: coming so so bloody close in '94).
I just want to point out how many franchises [regardless of who they're built around] can claim a stretch of 13 [or more] years in which they went as far as the 2nd round [or division finals around the 50s and 60s, of the ~8-team league] at least 11 times:
Knicks '88-'00Celtics '57-'69
Celtics '80-'92
Lakers '48-'61 or Lakers '61-'73 (barely any overlap)
Lakers '77-'89 (or '78-'90 or '78-'91)
Bulls '86-'98
Spurs '95-'07 (or '96-'08 or '98-'10)
.....and I think that's it.
The Ewing Knicks are also the *only team that took Jordan's Bulls to 7 games during their championship years (*although I've been vocal in noting the '98 Finals
should have gone 7 games if the refs hadn't missed two major calls), fwiw.
He's overshadowed in terms of DPOY and/or All-Defensive accolades because his career almost exactly overlaps with those of Hakeem, DRob, Dikembe, and Mourning......although there was a dearth of quality depth at the center position in this time, the talent at top for that position [that is:
the competition for media-awarded accolades] has arguably NEVER been better.
I'm willing to bet Dwight Howard does no better [or even as good] on this front if his career overlapped with these guys.
But Ewing anchored [or at worst "co-anchored"] TWO of the greatest defensive squads in NBA history (two of the top 3-4 defenses of the last 30 years), while simultaneously being the 1st option on offense [even if he wasn't terrifically suited to that role]. There are not a lot of guys who can anchor an elite defense AND score 23-27 ppg [even if it is on average(ish) efficiency].
And Ewing had more than respectable longevity as well.
I know there isn’t a mainstream list that has Ewing in the top 30, though I think that’s because they’re all too often based heavily on media accolades [which he just misses out on by having career overlap with Hakeem, Robinson, and Mutombo] and rings.
I'll also quote this post of mine from prior thread:
trex_8063 wrote:Below are the 23 all-time greatest team defenses in all of NBA/ABA history (for simplicity, based just on rs rDRTG)....
'64 Celtics: -10.8
'65 Celtics: -9.4
'04 Spurs: -8.8
'08 Celtics: -8.6
'62 Celtics: -8.5
'63 Celtics: -8.5
'93 Knicks: -8.3
'94 Knicks: -8.1
'20 Bucks: -7.7
'52 Lakers: -7.6
'61 Celtics: -7.6
'04 Pistons: -7.5 (*even better late-season after acquiring Sheed)
'16 Spurs: -7.4
'14 Pacers: -7.4
'05 Spurs: -7.3
'99 Spurs: -7.2
'11 Celtics: -7.0
'11 Bulls: -7.0
'07 Bulls: -6.9
'66 Celtics: -6.6
'06 Spurs: -6.6
'07 Spurs: -6.6
'70 Knicks: -6.6
Just pointing out that TWO of the top 8 EVER were Ewing Knicks teams. Yes, these teams had an excellent defensive-minded coach, a roster packed with guys who were "more defense than offense". But still, you don't achieve those kinds of results without an all-time tier defensive big in the middle.
We're talking about TWO defenses that only ONE of Duncan's teams, ONE Garnett team, and only 4 (of 13) of Bill Russell's teams ever bested......NO ONE else managed better.
And note that there is not a single team of Hakeem's, or Dikembe's, or Wilt's, or any Utah team (Eaton/Gobert), or any ABA Gilmore team, etc on this list.
Because his shot block numbers don't quite stack up, Ewing is often held in substantially lower esteem defensively than some of his same-era peers......but he really wasn't far behind [at all] guys like Hakeem, DRob, Deke in their respective primes.
And he did so while being relied upon for anywhere from 22-29 ppg [on anywhere from -1% to +7% rTS].
Considering all of the above, I'm set.....
1st vote: Patrick Ewing2nd vote: Scottie PippenSomewhat set on this pick for my #2.
Was he a great scorer? No, he wasn't......but he was a good one.
Was he a great rebounding SF? No, he wasn't......but he was a [really] good one.
Was he a great playmaking SF? Here I'd hedge toward yes. Not Lebron-level, or Bird-level either; but REALLY damn good in this regard. A stronger feature than his scoring or rebounding, imo.
Was he a great defensive SF? Duh.
Add all those things up, and this becomes somewhat the ultimate utility knife, and someone who is pretty portable on excellent teams, too. He's got the rep of the GOAT #2 for how he meshed with Jordan to form a dynasty.
He didn't mesh half-bad [at least in terms of play-style] with a contender/near-contender Rockets team, despite being arguably past his prime.
Then he meshed well as a MAJOR contributor with a contender-level Blazer team [despite being more definitively past his prime].
The end result has left him 13th all-time in playoff WS (NBA and ABA) and 8th in playoff VORP [since 1973]; he's 45th and 24th, respectively, in the rs in those metrics.
In his late prime and early post-prime, his league rank in RAPM was 6th in '97, 21st in '98, tied for 30th in '99, still solid [+2.5] in '00.
His rs pseudo-APM rank in '94-'96 were 18th, 5th, and 4th in the league.
And overall 15 seasons of actual "value added" for his career.
3rd vote: ???idk. I'll come back to this. Strongly considering Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek, Jason Kidd, and James Harden.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
