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Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons

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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#21 » by Crymson » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:22 pm

He was a terrible coach who made awful personnel decisions in addition to his incompetent drafting, but he's either unaware fo the first two or doesn't care to admit to those failures as well. Speaking of personnel decisions, I wonder if he'll ever admit that he knew the Griffin trade was a awful idea but did it anyway because he knew he was going to be fired if he didn't do something drastic to turn around the course of the season. Or maybe he was actually incompetent enough to believe that it was a positive-value move.

Whatever. He was awful in Detroit in both of his capacities.

I think overall very few guys can really play the coach and GM role well as you can't give all your effort to both you've got to split and its hard to be great at either of those if you aren't giving it 100%


Bower handled the GM duties during the season so that SVG could focus entirely on coaching. SVG was clear about that. It wasn't a matter of split attentions; he just sucked at both of his roles, plain and simple.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#22 » by bstein14 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:36 pm

I've been a Pistons fan since the 90s so I've seen a boatload of bad coaches. I think SVG is a better XO's coach than Casey, but SVG does start to wear thin on the players after a few seasons where Casey is more of a players coach that can succeed by getting the best out of his players effort wise.

Looking at the Pistons coaches since we haven't had a playoff win (08/09 season) I'd say SVG was our best coach of the group with Casey 2nd.

Michael Curry
John Kuester
Lawrence Frank
Maurice Cheeks
John Loyer
Stan Van Gundy
Dwane Casey
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#23 » by Canadafan » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:42 pm

Rip32 wrote:F SVG! That trade for broken down Blake killed this franchise


Hilarious. I was just coming on here to say eff svg. I tried to defend him to friends and now am just pissed he wasted my time and life lol
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#24 » by Canadafan » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:44 pm

Also, who in their right mind hires a guy who was so horrible?? Absolutely ridiculous people get paid millions of dollars for being so useless
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#25 » by Invictus88 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:59 pm

bstein14 wrote:I've been a Pistons fan since the 90s so I've seen a boatload of bad coaches. I think SVG is a better XO's coach than Casey, but SVG does start to wear thin on the players after a few seasons where Casey is more of a players coach that can succeed by getting the best out of his players effort wise.

Looking at the Pistons coaches since we haven't had a playoff win (08/09 season) I'd say SVG was our best coach of the group with Casey 2nd.

Michael Curry
John Kuester
Lawrence Frank
Maurice Cheeks
John Loyer
Stan Van Gundy
Dwane Casey


I can't put SVG above Casey. I'm still of the opinion Casey is better at player development which has been the most lacking/important skill across all of those coaching tenures.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#26 » by tradez401 » Wed Dec 9, 2020 12:50 am

bstein14 wrote:I've been a Pistons fan since the 90s so I've seen a boatload of bad coaches. I think SVG is a better XO's coach than Casey, but SVG does start to wear thin on the players after a few seasons where Casey is more of a players coach that can succeed by getting the best out of his players effort wise.

Looking at the Pistons coaches since we haven't had a playoff win (08/09 season) I'd say SVG was our best coach of the group with Casey 2nd.

Michael Curry
John Kuester
Lawrence Frank
Maurice Cheeks
John Loyer
Stan Van Gundy
Dwane Casey


Lol I remember players were laughing at Kuester, Frank Lawrence refused to give rookie Drummond solid minutes for whatever reason we let Maurice Cheeks go way too soon.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#27 » by Crymson » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:07 am

OK. For those who are defending Van Gundy's coaching, let's do a quick oral history of 2016-2017 season. I think it effectively sums up why he sucked as a coach in Detroit.

So, it's the summer of 2016. The Pistons are coming off of a 44-win season (their best since 2007-2008) and a competitive sweep loss in the first round of the previous playoffs. Things are looking pretty good. The Pistons are one of the youngest teams in the league. Reggie Jackson just had a pretty good first season with the team. Tobias Harris was had at the deadline; he's a capable scorer who added some much-needed punch off the dribble. Drummond was an All-Star and Third-Team All-NBA; he didn't deserve either of those plaudits, but still, he's young and presumably still has space to grow. Stanley had a tough rookie season, but he had a good playoffs and looks poised for growth as well. KCP and Morris round out the starting five. Van Gundy the GM has signed Ish Smith and Jon Leuer to multi-year deals; the latter is suspect off the bat, but we're talking Van Gundy the coach here.

A few weeks before opening night, some unpleasant news is had: Reggie Jackson, cornerstone of the team's offense the season prior, has suffered a flare-up of knee tendinitis. He'll be taking a couple of months off to recuperate and undergo PRP. He'll be back in early December. It falls now to Ish Smith and a revamped offense. The hope is that the Pistons can tide things over until Jackson gets back.

The season starts out well enough. The Pistons win four of their first six, though they play some easy teams in the process. Things get more difficult when the opposition improves, but the team is improving and holding close to .500. By the time they reach game 21, they're 11-10. They've won four of their past five. The two before that, played against two very good teams, were lost by a total of five points. The Pistons are the second-best defensive team in the league. The offense started out rough, but it's improved quite a bit; the Pistons have a top-ten offense (by ORTG and TS%) over the prior two weeks. There are blips, of course. Van Gundy is pushing year three of the enormously unsuccessful Drummond post-up experiment; he's wasting four possessions per game on these, and Drummond remains more efficient from the free-throw line (from which he's the worst shooter in NBA history) than on these attempts from the post. The Pistons have one of the least efficient shot profiles in the league. But it's going okay. The offense, which is being run primarily through the forwards, is being led by Tobias Harris, who's dropping around 17 points per game on good efficiency. Ish Smith isn't efficient from the floor, but he's ably leading the offense and adeptly managing the ball. Jon Leuer is, surprisingly, one of the league's better reserves. Things are coming together reasonably well. And now Jackson is returning!

You'd think that the return of your leading scorer and offensive pivot of the season before would be a positive, right? Wrong! Jackson enters the lineup, and it's all downhill for the Pistons. Remember what I said about the Pistons putting together an effective offense? Well, you'd think that Van Gundy would maintain components of that, right? Wrong again! Now that Jackson's back, Van Gundy is going to scrap that offense in its entirety and return to what the Pistons played the season before: they're going to play a heavily pick-and-roll-focused game that revolves around Jackson, no matter that they'd been bottom-five in TS% the prior season with that offense, or that they'd have missed the playoffs altogether but for the arrival of Harris, or that nobody even knows if the recently-returned Jackson is capable of productively handling a substantial offensive load right now in the first place.

Van Gundy makes his changes, and Jackson goes off to the races. The result is a miniature disaster. He hogs the ball and won't stop shooting, but he can't make shots. The offense flatlines. The defense devolves. It takes all of two weeks before Jackson's selfish conduct produces a players-only meeting, one whose focus is largely upon him. Does he take the criticism in stride? Of course not. He spends much of the next game refusing to shoot. After the Pistons lose, Van Gundy derides the meeting as a frivolous waste and ignores the factors that brought it about in the first place.

Another week passes. The Pistons are now 3-6 since Jackson's return. Harris and Jackson aren't performing well together in the starting lineup, so Van Gundy decides to make a change. His options are two: send Jackson, who is clearly still physically addled and has been abominably bad on both ends since his return, out of the starting lineup until he recovers and restore the effective Ish Smith as starter until that time; or kick Harris, by far the team's best scorer and its only reliable creator, to the bench instead. Well, the choice is clear: so long, Tobias! Harris goes to the bench, from which he'll not return until the following season. He goes along with this ludicrous indignity because he's a great guy and a model teammate. Jon Leuer is elevated to the starting lineup, thus embarking upon his transition from highly effective reserve to one of the league's worst starters and uniting a new starting five that will, on the season, be second-worst in the league in net rating (at a whopping -10.7) and worst in true shooting.

The season continues. The Pistons continue to suck. As the new year begins, the Pistons pull out of what had become a 4-10 slide, but they still aren't good. Jackson still sucks; he drags down the team on offense and defense both. The team is drastically worse off with him on the floor. The starting lineup is a disaster. Drummond checks out of the season for good a short time into January; he's terrible for the rest of it. KCP and Morris enter prolonged slumps; they're among the worst shooters in the league the rest of the way. Leuer isn't fit to start. Jackson remains the undisputed pivot of Van Gundy's offense. He's gotten better, but he's still awful and the offense is still broken. He also unhinges the team's defense by mere dint of being on the floor; he can hardly defend anyone. Ish and Tobias are the bright spots. They're kept on the bench and in marginalized roles anyway. Nothing is going right. Van Gundy, characteristically, makes no changes.

February arrives. The starting lineup is still a disaster. The bench, including also Stanley and Baynes, does well. Smith and Harris help key the Pistons to some stirring come-from-behind victories. Van Gundy presumably takes note of this, but does nothing. The trade deadline approaches. Van Gundy promises Jackson he won't be traded. It's an odd promise, given that no team could possibly have interest in Jackson given how terribly he's played; few, if any, starters in the NBA have performed worse. Nothing significant happens at the deadline. The deadline passes. The Pistons play that night. Van Gundy starts Jackson, again. He falls flat on his face, again. Smith comes in to save the day, again. The Pistons come back from a huge deficit to win. Van Gundy takes note, and continues to make no changes. Johnson, Harris, and Smith have the best net rating of any trio in the NBA for the month. Better than Curry, Thompson, and Durant, better than Lebron, Irving, and Love. Van Gundy doesn't care. Nothing changes.

March comes. The Pistons are dangerously close to falling out of the playoff race altogether. Aside from exiling Harris to the bench, Van Gundy has still made no changes of note since Jackson reentered the starting lineup. 38 games in, he's still a complete and utter disaster; thus far, the Pistons have been prodigiously worse (to the tune of 12 points per 100 possessions) when he's been on the floor. He's awful on offense, but he remains Van Gundy's pivot anyway. He can't play defense either. The other members of the starting lineup are better, but that's not saying much. They're still bad, all of them. The offense isn't working. The defense is decent, but it won't win games. The team's best players continue to toil on the bench. Van Gundy changes nothing. The Pistons are on course to miss the playoffs; they're headed for a spot in the dreaded low lottery. Van Gundy still changes nothing.

We arrive, finally, on March 21st. It's game 71 of the season. Jackson has spent a dreadful, nearly 50-game stretch as the team's starting point guard and offensive centerpiece. It has been a complete, resounding, and stinking failure. Van Gundy finally replaces him with Ish Smith. Harris is now, without exaggeration, the team's only dependable scorer. He and Smith work very well together. Van Gundy leaves him on the bench anyway. Apparently giving maximum opportunity to his roster's best scorer isn't a priority.

So, Smith is back at point guard. Everything will be better now, right? Well, Smith is certainly better. Unfortunately, the rest of the starters have long since entered a tailspin and Van Gundy makes no further changes. Not to the lineup, not to the offense, not to anything. He runs the same rote, ineffective garbage he's been running for the majority of the season. He still refuses to coach shot selection. He still marginalizes his best shooter. Rinse and repeat. Jackson plays his final game three days after his departure from the starting lineup and, in a fair characterization of the season, somehow manages to take three more shots than any player despite playing only 20 minutes and misses two-thirds of them. The Pistons, mired in a plunge that certainly cannot be arrested by a coach who is unwilling to make almost any change at all, lose nine of their final 12 games (including the final game of at The Palace) before the season mercifully comes to an end.

This is the story of a coach who booted an entire season thanks to his hardheadedness, lack of creativity, and terrible, terrible judgment.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#28 » by Uncle Mxy » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:57 pm

Beno was actually putting in some quality minutes at PG, too.
We had no good reason to keep starting Jackson when he was still obviously unwell.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#29 » by vic » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:14 pm

Crymson wrote:OK. For those who are defending Van Gundy's coaching, let's do a quick oral history of 2016-2017 season. I think it effectively sums up why he sucked as a coach in Detroit.

So, it's the summer of 2016. The Pistons are coming off of a 44-win season (their best since 2007-2008) and a competitive sweep loss in the first round of the previous playoffs. Things are looking pretty good. The Pistons are one of the youngest teams in the league. Reggie Jackson just had a pretty good first season with the team. Tobias Harris was had at the deadline; he's a capable scorer who added some much-needed punch off the dribble. Drummond was an All-Star and Third-Team All-NBA; he didn't deserve either of those plaudits, but still, he's young and presumably still has space to grow. Stanley had a tough rookie season, but he had a good playoffs and looks poised for growth as well. KCP and Morris round out the starting five. Van Gundy the GM has signed Ish Smith and Jon Leuer to multi-year deals; the latter is suspect off the bat, but we're talking Van Gundy the coach here.

A few weeks before opening night, some unpleasant news is had: Reggie Jackson, cornerstone of the team's offense the season prior, has suffered a flare-up of knee tendinitis. He'll be taking a couple of months off to recuperate and undergo PRP. He'll be back in early December. It falls now to Ish Smith and a revamped offense. The hope is that the Pistons can tide things over until Jackson gets back.

The season starts out well enough. The Pistons win four of their first six, though they play some easy teams in the process. Things get more difficult when the opposition improves, but the team is improving and holding close to .500. By the time they reach game 21, they're 11-10. They've won four of their past five. The two before that, played against two very good teams, were lost by a total of five points. The Pistons are the second-best defensive team in the league. The offense started out rough, but it's improved quite a bit; the Pistons have a top-ten offense (by ORTG and TS%) over the prior two weeks. There are blips, of course. Van Gundy is pushing year three of the enormously unsuccessful Drummond post-up experiment; he's wasting four possessions per game on these, and Drummond remains more efficient from the free-throw line (from which he's the worst shooter in NBA history) than on these attempts from the post. The Pistons have one of the least efficient shot profiles in the league. But it's going okay. The offense, which is being run primarily through the forwards, is being led by Tobias Harris, who's dropping around 17 points per game on good efficiency. Ish Smith isn't efficient from the floor, but he's ably leading the offense and adeptly managing the ball. Jon Leuer is, surprisingly, one of the league's better reserves. Things are coming together reasonably well. And now Jackson is returning!

You'd think that the return of your leading scorer and offensive pivot of the season before would be a positive, right? Wrong! Jackson enters the lineup, and it's all downhill for the Pistons. Remember what I said about the Pistons putting together an effective offense? Well, you'd think that Van Gundy would maintain components of that, right? Wrong again! Now that Jackson's back, Van Gundy is going to scrap that offense in its entirety and return to what the Pistons played the season before: they're going to play a heavily pick-and-roll-focused game that revolves around Jackson, no matter that they'd been bottom-five in TS% the prior season with that offense, or that they'd have missed the playoffs altogether but for the arrival of Harris, or that nobody even knows if the recently-returned Jackson is capable of productively handling a substantial offensive load right now in the first place.

Van Gundy makes his changes, and Jackson goes off to the races. The result is a miniature disaster. He hogs the ball and won't stop shooting, but he can't make shots. The offense flatlines. The defense devolves. It takes all of two weeks before Jackson's selfish conduct produces a players-only meeting, one whose focus is largely upon him. Does he take the criticism in stride? Of course not. He spends much of the next game refusing to shoot. After the Pistons lose, Van Gundy derides the meeting as a frivolous waste and ignores the factors that brought it about in the first place.

Another week passes. The Pistons are now 3-6 since Jackson's return. Harris and Jackson aren't performing well together in the starting lineup, so Van Gundy decides to make a change. His options are two: send Jackson, who is clearly still physically addled and has been abominably bad on both ends since his return, out of the starting lineup until he recovers and restore the effective Ish Smith as starter until that time; or kick Harris, by far the team's best scorer and its only reliable creator, to the bench instead. Well, the choice is clear: so long, Tobias! Harris goes to the bench, from which he'll not return until the following season. He goes along with this ludicrous indignity because he's a great guy and a model teammate. Jon Leuer is elevated to the starting lineup, thus embarking upon his transition from highly effective reserve to one of the league's worst starters and uniting a new starting five that will, on the season, be second-worst in the league in net rating (at a whopping -10.7) and worst in true shooting.

The season continues. The Pistons continue to suck. As the new year begins, the Pistons pull out of what had become a 4-10 slide, but they still aren't good. Jackson still sucks; he drags down the team on offense and defense both. The team is drastically worse off with him on the floor. The starting lineup is a disaster. Drummond checks out of the season for good a short time into January; he's terrible for the rest of it. KCP and Morris enter prolonged slumps; they're among the worst shooters in the league the rest of the way. Leuer isn't fit to start. Jackson remains the undisputed pivot of Van Gundy's offense. He's gotten better, but he's still awful and the offense is still broken. He also unhinges the team's defense by mere dint of being on the floor; he can hardly defend anyone. Ish and Tobias are the bright spots. They're kept on the bench and in marginalized roles anyway. Nothing is going right. Van Gundy, characteristically, makes no changes.

February arrives. The starting lineup is still a disaster. The bench, including also Stanley and Baynes, does well. Smith and Harris help key the Pistons to some stirring come-from-behind victories. Van Gundy presumably takes note of this, but does nothing. The trade deadline approaches. Van Gundy promises Jackson he won't be traded. It's an odd promise, given that no team could possibly have interest in Jackson given how terribly he's played; few, if any, starters in the NBA have performed worse. Nothing significant happens at the deadline. The deadline passes. The Pistons play that night. Van Gundy starts Jackson, again. He falls flat on his face, again. Smith comes in to save the day, again. The Pistons come back from a huge deficit to win. Van Gundy takes note, and continues to make no changes. Johnson, Harris, and Smith have the best net rating of any trio in the NBA for the month. Better than Curry, Thompson, and Durant, better than Lebron, Irving, and Love. Van Gundy doesn't care. Nothing changes.

March comes. The Pistons are dangerously close to falling out of the playoff race altogether. Aside from exiling Harris to the bench, Van Gundy has still made no changes of note since Jackson reentered the starting lineup. 38 games in, he's still a complete and utter disaster; thus far, the Pistons have been prodigiously worse (to the tune of 12 points per 100 possessions) when he's been on the floor. He's awful on offense, but he remains Van Gundy's pivot anyway. He can't play defense either. The other members of the starting lineup are better, but that's not saying much. They're still bad, all of them. The offense isn't working. The defense is decent, but it won't win games. The team's best players continue to toil on the bench. Van Gundy changes nothing. The Pistons are on course to miss the playoffs; they're headed for a spot in the dreaded low lottery. Van Gundy still changes nothing.

We arrive, finally, on March 21st. It's game 71 of the season. Jackson has spent a dreadful, nearly 50-game stretch as the team's starting point guard and offensive centerpiece. It has been a complete, resounding, and stinking failure. Van Gundy finally replaces him with Ish Smith. Harris is now, without exaggeration, the team's only dependable scorer. He and Smith work very well together. Van Gundy leaves him on the bench anyway. Apparently giving maximum opportunity to his roster's best scorer isn't a priority.

So, Smith is back at point guard. Everything will be better now, right? Well, Smith is certainly better. Unfortunately, the rest of the starters have long since entered a tailspin and Van Gundy makes no further changes. Not to the lineup, not to the offense, not to anything. He runs the same rote, ineffective garbage he's been running for the majority of the season. He still refuses to coach shot selection. He still marginalizes his best shooter. Rinse and repeat. Jackson plays his final game three days after his departure from the starting lineup and, in a fair characterization of the season, somehow manages to take three more shots than any player despite playing only 20 minutes and misses two-thirds of them. The Pistons, mired in a plunge that certainly cannot be arrested by a coach who is unwilling to make almost any change at all, lose nine of their final 12 games (including the final game of at The Palace) before the season mercifully comes to an end.

This is the story of a coach who booted an entire season thanks to his hardheadedness, lack of creativity, and terrible, terrible judgment.


WOOOOWWW... this brought back so many horrible memories. Now I remember when I lost respect for SVG as a coach. He coached in his own head rather than in the actual game. This season was completely destroyed by SVG the COACH.

This is when I realized that the worst coaches are the ones who depend on their point guard fetishes. If you can't see how the game can be won without your favorite pet point guard, you lack strategy and creativity. Good coaches figure out how to win with the tools they have, not their point guard crutch.

Then the next summer after this, INSTEAD of drafting a talented defense first combo guard Donovan Mitchell who could not only backup KCP but possibly provide injury insurance for Reggie Jackson - he decides "Just add shooting" and drafts Luke Kennard instead. That's when I lost respect for SVG the GM.
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
Weaver & Casey, govern yourselves accordingly!
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#30 » by DetroitDon15 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:59 am

Pharaoh wrote:Fact that he passed on Booker for SJ then the next year passed on Mitchell for Kennard doomed us.

IF we take Booker doesn't he help Reggie and Dre by spacing the floor? Isn't that why we drafted the shooter the next time?

Not taking mini Wade once he blew it with SJ just compounded the problem.

Blows my mind that a guy who can speak so intelligently about the game missed the obvious choice in so many Drafts

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It’s the one big item that I can not figure out. During the Stanley draft, the team’s star/core players lacked a real floor spacer. The Pistons drafted a player who lacked shooting ability. I completely thought in the draft that Booker was the target when it was pick time. I’m still not recovered from hearing Johnson being the pick.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#31 » by Pharaoh » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:06 am

At least with Weaver it's obvious what he's looking for in players.

SVG was all over the map picking players despite stating that scouting was key, especially pro scouting.

He was on so many Sloan panels, spoke so intelligently about the game but obviously he's best served with a real GM at the top assembling things.

He was a successful coach in Miami & Orlando, failed here...

Will be interesting to see how the Pelicans go with all their kids.

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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#32 » by ByeByeDre » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:52 am

Stan should be fine in New Orleans - the talent is already there.

One thing - the Griffin trade was a Gores move, not a Stan move. And that oral history of the one season made me cry
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#33 » by Crymson » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:46 am

ByeByeDre wrote:Stan should be fine in New Orleans - the talent is already there.


Except he's an incompetent coach who, in Detroit, excelled at making his team less than the sum of its parts.

One thing - the Griffin trade was a Gores move, not a Stan move. And that oral history of the one season made me cry


There's been nothing to establish that. According to Zach Lowe, everyone was on board.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#34 » by ByeByeDre » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:14 am

Crymson wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:Stan should be fine in New Orleans - the talent is already there.


Except he's an incompetent coach who, in Detroit, excelled at making his team less than the sum of its parts.

One thing - the Griffin trade was a Gores move, not a Stan move. And that oral history of the one season made me cry


There's been nothing to establish that. According to Zach Lowe, everyone was on board.


No and definitely no.
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Re: Stan Van Gundy interview talking about his time with the Pistons 

Post#35 » by flow » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:13 am

tradez401 wrote:
bstein14 wrote:I've been a Pistons fan since the 90s so I've seen a boatload of bad coaches. I think SVG is a better XO's coach than Casey, but SVG does start to wear thin on the players after a few seasons where Casey is more of a players coach that can succeed by getting the best out of his players effort wise.

Looking at the Pistons coaches since we haven't had a playoff win (08/09 season) I'd say SVG was our best coach of the group with Casey 2nd.

Michael Curry
John Kuester
Lawrence Frank
Maurice Cheeks
John Loyer
Stan Van Gundy
Dwane Casey


Lol I remember players were laughing at Kuester, Frank Lawrence refused to give rookie Drummond solid minutes for whatever reason we let Maurice Cheeks go way too soon.

1. Turns out Frank had it right.

2. We let Cheeks go none too soon.

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