Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0

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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#881 » by zimpy27 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:47 am

shangrila wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
shangrila wrote:Maybe. It absolutely tanks their defence though.


I don't think it tanks their starting defense, none of their starters are poor defenders. Forbes is the terrible defender, he could be unplayable.

Going from Holiday/Middleton to Harden/Gordon is a significant downgrade defensively.


It is a big downgrade in aggressive defense because of the loss of Jrue but not a big loss on team defense as a whole as neither Harden or Gordon are bad defenders. It's not like they brought in DeRozan.

They will get less turnover conversions for sure though.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#882 » by BullyKing » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:48 am

NYG wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
NYG wrote:Let's assume Harden is #1... who are the best 3 players traded between now and the deadline?

1. James Harden
2.
3.


In all seriousness man, you ask this question like every three days. The answer doesn't change that frequently.


I feel like different people catch it and pretty much every time new people participate with unique and interesting ideas that haven't already been discussed over and over here, but if it bothers you, you're the mod and I'll stop.


I'm not telling you to stop but I do think you already know the answer to the question. You know who the top players are in the NBA. You know everyone who has even been remotely speculated to be available.

If it's someone that hasn't "already been discuss over and over here" it's likely that this person is (1) not among the best players and/or (2) not likely to be traded. If you are wondering if a particular player might become available or just generally interested in getting people's opinion on their value then by all means post about it.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#883 » by shangrila » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:54 am

zimpy27 wrote:
shangrila wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
I don't think it tanks their starting defense, none of their starters are poor defenders. Forbes is the terrible defender, he could be unplayable.

Going from Holiday/Middleton to Harden/Gordon is a significant downgrade defensively.


It is a big downgrade in aggressive defense because of the loss of Jrue but not a big loss on team defense as a whole as neither Harden or Gordon are bad defenders. It's not like they brought in DeRozan.

They will get less turnover conversions for sure though.

I'd argue they're average at best. Given that both Jrue and Middleton range from great to elite, I'd say that's a significant drop off.

I think you're also underestimating the impact it would have on their scheme. A drop scheme requires smart defenders to be elite. It's not just that Lopez can alter shots, it's that guys on the wings rotate and tag properly or the point of attack defender can get through screens and the like. None of that comes to mind when I think of Harden or Gordon's defence.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#884 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:26 am

zimpy27 wrote:
shangrila wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
I don't think it tanks their starting defense, none of their starters are poor defenders. Forbes is the terrible defender, he could be unplayable.

Going from Holiday/Middleton to Harden/Gordon is a significant downgrade defensively.


It is a big downgrade in aggressive defense because of the loss of Jrue but not a big loss on team defense as a whole as neither Harden or Gordon are bad defenders. It's not like they brought in DeRozan.

They will get less turnover conversions for sure though.



Oh as individual defenders its definitely a big drop off. But it just doesn't matter that much. A defense with BroLo and Giannis is going to one of the best defenses in the league regardless.

Bucks should be willing to move anyone to pair Giannis and Harden. You can figure the rest out.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#885 » by zimpy27 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:40 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
shangrila wrote:Going from Holiday/Middleton to Harden/Gordon is a significant downgrade defensively.


It is a big downgrade in aggressive defense because of the loss of Jrue but not a big loss on team defense as a whole as neither Harden or Gordon are bad defenders. It's not like they brought in DeRozan.

They will get less turnover conversions for sure though.



Oh as individual defenders its definitely a big drop off. But it just doesn't matter that much. A defense with BroLo and Giannis is going to one of the best defenses in the league regardless.

Bucks should be willing to move anyone to pair Giannis and Harden. You can figure the rest out.


Pretty much, neither Harden and Gordon are weak enough to create a hole that Giannis/Brook can't cover.

I agree that Bucks should do what's possible to pair Harden with Giannis.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#886 » by kalenclayton » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:57 pm

Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#887 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:02 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?



Yeah I'm really surprised about multiple teams with interest. Why exactly? He feels more like another guy who keeps himself in shape knowing this season is going to have lots of in-season need for vets.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#888 » by tomaHAWKslam » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:07 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?



Yeah I'm really surprised about multiple teams with interest. Why exactly? He feels more like another guy who keeps himself in shape knowing this season is going to have lots of in-season need for vets.
Sham’s source could be Hezonja’s agent along with some wishful thinking.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#889 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:17 pm

Made me laugh

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#890 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:22 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Made me laugh

Read on Twitter
?s=21



That was gold. And you heard the crowd go crazy thinking he was coming into the game. He talked in his presser yesterday about how much he appreciated how much the fans appreciated him. That he was well aware how loud the crowd got for him and he never took it for granted.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#891 » by kalenclayton » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:46 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?



Yeah I'm really surprised about multiple teams with interest. Why exactly? He feels more like another guy who keeps himself in shape knowing this season is going to have lots of in-season need for vets.

Agreed. I think there are better FAs out there too. I know they play different positions, but vets like Taj Gibson and IT would have more of an impact. If you are looking for a stretch 4, Ilyasova and Demarre Carroll would probably have higher impact than Hezonja. I think Mario has some work to do.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#892 » by Soulyss » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:01 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?


No, but he'll get a job in Europe
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#893 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:14 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#894 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:13 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21

Feel like something that would have been useful to be voted on earlier.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#895 » by Prospect Dong » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:07 am

kalenclayton wrote:
Read on Twitter

Is Hezonja still worth a roster spot?


The back end of the Grizzlies' wing rotation is pretty mediocre/unproven. If Hezonja could fill a veteran 12th/13th man role, you'd think he'd being doing it for the Griz.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#896 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:53 am

Any Hawks fans have any light to shed on Bogdan coming off the bench? Is this the plan or is this just nobody's had much practice time and Hunter/Huerter have time under Pierce?

I guess if they go this route their bench will be straight wrecking 2nd units at least. :D
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#897 » by jayu70 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:01 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Any Hawks fans have any light to shed on Bogdan coming off the bench? Is this the plan or is this just nobody's had much practice time and Hunter/Huerter have time under Pierce?

I guess if they go this route their bench will be straight wrecking 2nd units at least. :D

Exploration: Huerter and Reddish (sore ankle so missed his chance) were supposed to start today.

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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#898 » by Buzzard » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:45 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Any Hawks fans have any light to shed on Bogdan coming off the bench? Is this the plan or is this just nobody's had much practice time and Hunter/Huerter have time under Pierce?

I guess if they go this route their bench will be straight wrecking 2nd units at least. :D

I think Pierce is reckless with his lineups. There is no other way to explain Damian Jones getting 27 starts last season. I see it as multiple things.

1- He thinks he is smarter than everyone else. 2- its his way of teaching a better player a lesson by starting someone over him. 3 - He is trying to instill confidence in a lesser player by giving him starts.

I could not stand Pierce's lineups/rotations last season. Lessons are for the practice court or a quick in game hook that does not last all night. The game day court is for playing your best five and trying to win a damn game.

I really hope he takes a chill pill on the mad scientist routine during the regular season.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#899 » by Couch Potato » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:05 pm

shangrila wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Harden + Gordon traded for Middleton + Jrue

Does this trade make sense for both teams?

I think it sharpens both lineups:

Harden, DDV, Gordon, Giannis, BroLo

Wall, Jrue, Middleton, Tucker, Wood

That's tough. I don't think I'd be willing to include Jrue if I were the Bucks. Middleton, DDV, other salary and the very few picks they have left is about as high as I think you could go. You just wouldn't have enough of a team left to truly compete.


Doubt the Bucks would want Gordon's long contract either. Keep the trade smaller of something like Middleton,DDV,Brook and a bunch of second round picks for Harden and cheap end of bench fillers. So Rockets aren't forced to waive a bunch of players. Also the Bucks just traded for Holiday. Isn't there a rule he cant be packaged together in another trade? I guess it could be two separate trades to get it to work.
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Re: Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0 

Post#900 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:52 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Side news - Toronto, Mavs, Heat all tried to maintain flexibility for next summer which now doesn't look all that great. Wonder if we see them start to make some bigger trades now.


Moved this here so as to not distract from what should be a Bucks celebration thread, but you bring up obviously an important point as to how it impacted the 3 teams who have been transparent for 2 years what their plan was.

I actually don't know that those teams missed out on much. Toronto might could have kept one or both of Ibaka/Gasol if they were willing to extend long-term deals, but while they will miss them this year with Baynes/Len instead I don't think long-term that's a big loss.

Miami and Dallas missed out on Gallo I guess as we know both teams have had interest. But while I really like Gallo's offense I don't know that its a huge loss.

And I think Miami will explore Harden but otherwise keep their cap next year and chase Kawhi. Dallas, I expect Donnie to get very aggressive by the deadline and look to take on salary in an attempt to upgrade as has long been Dallas' MO. Toronto is a tougher read, but I have tons of faith in Masai.

This was a massive blow to all three franchises, but all very well run with Masai and Riley at the very top of the game and Donnie on that next tier down. I'm sure they have all been working on what's the plan if he signs the supermax.
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