Which Teams Got Better, Worse Or Remained Neutral

[Catchall]

How can you say the Bulls got worse?

They got a new front office and new coach. That's a big improvement right there.

Yes the roster is mostly the same and the team isn't very good, but the two things I mentioned above, plus any improvements from the young players and a healthy year from Otto Porter Jr should help. I'm not expecting the playoffs but a slight improvement with a better outlook for the future is possible.

Otto Porter helps. Patrick Williams looks like he'll contribute--nice player. Coby White should take a step forward. Plus their coaching can't help but be better.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Sixers worse? How? They actually have NBA players on the roster now.

Oh I think its pretty clear they downgraded in talent in the name of fit and getting their finances sorted moving forward. I don't think they will be worse, but there is definitely an argument.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

[Catchall]

Denver was bottom-tier defensively last year. Gary Harris being healthy will make a difference, for sure, but they lost some size and athleticism defensively with Plumlee, Grant and Craig leaving. If Porter, Murray and Jokic are on the floor, teams are going to get to the rim.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

How did the Heat get better?

Internal improvement from Bam and Herro gives them a real argument for being better imo.


Also, I'd have Dallas closer to neutral than better. They probably are marginally better, but their improvements were mostly around the margins other than Richardson, but that came at the cost of their best shooter.

Agree on internal improvement but internal improvement doesn't seem to be a consideration for other teams in that list. Knicks have same young guys improving and added Toppin.

I had at least other than the Heat the Hawks, Grizzlies and Mavericks improving because of internal improvement. If a player doesn't look good their first or second year, I'm not going to assume that they'll improve. Knicks could be a team I got wrong initially.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

I don’t know how bucks can be considered neutral? Sure their future MAY have gotten worse depending on someone, but if you’re allowing for internal improvements for bam and herro as the team getting better then I think you have to assume Giannis may keep improving and ddv will...AND adding holiday for Bledsoe is a win for sure

How much better can Giannis realistically get? Herro was a rookie, Giannis is a back to back MVP. Anyways, Giannis was actually less efficient last season than the season before. You added Jrue but lost a few good players. Bucks already had the best record in the NBA last season so it's hard to imagine that the Bucks will get noticeably better this season.

[jstross]

Abysmal for the amount of money he was tying up is what I really meant. That and Horford not a good fit at the 4, then HArris at the 3 and so on.

Oh I think its pretty clear they downgraded in talent in the name of fit and getting their finances sorted moving forward. I don't think they will be worse, but there is definitely an argument.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

[Texas Chuck]

Abysmal for the amount of money he was tying up is what I really meant. That and Horford not a good fit at the 4, then HArris at the 3 and so on.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

Which was the point I made you disagreed with. They made those moves to balance the lineup and resolve some long-term financial issues. They moved Horford's money and instead of having to give Richardson a raise they got 3 more cheap years of Curry.

They made smart moves. But they didn't add talent.

[BelgradeNugget]

Denver was bottom-tier defensively last year. Gary Harris being healthy will make a difference, for sure, but they lost some size and athleticism defensively with Plumlee, Grant and Craig leaving. If Porter, Murray and Jokic are on the floor, teams are going to get to the rim.

One thing about Denver's defense. Denver was top 5 defensive team in the league with their starting 5 healthy (Murray, Harris, Barton, Millsap and Jokic). Before New Year their defensive rating was 2nd in the league.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=12%2F27%2F2019

After that because of injuries to their starters their defense declined to 12th (before the bubble). In the first round of POs their defense was terrible because "defensive specialist" Grant and Crieg (and MPJ) replaced Barton and Haris. The fact is that Grant and Crieg were among the worst among Nuggets players in defensive rating. Plumlee was unplayable in the POs for the second year in the row so I don't think their lost will affect Nuggets.

BTW I agree that Jazz is much better with return of Favors and team that got a lot better, IMO are Blazers.

[LloydFree]

Many teams became better.

Spoiler:

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

Much Better:
Portland Trail blazers
Phoenix Suns
Brooklyn Nets
Golden st Warriors

Better:
Hawks
Wizards
76ers
Hornets

Worse:
Magic
Pistons
Raptors

Much worse:
OKC Thunder

Neutral: Everybody else

[SA37]

How did the Heat get better?

I think it remains to be seen, but Miami can reasonably to expect Bam, Herro, Robinson, and possibly Nunn to improve. Avery Bradley and Mo Harkless more than make up for the departures of Jones Jr (who basically did not play in the post season) and Jae Crowder. If Achiuwa can contribute 10-15 solid minutes for Miami this year, that would be a huge bonus because Miami is thin at the 4. The wild card for me -- and a guy no one seems to be paying attention to -- is Nunn.

Point guards usually need a year or two to adjust to the NBA, but he came in and was Rookie of the Year good for about 75-80% of the season(he had 19 20-point games as a rookie and scored at least 15 points in 34 games). I'm not saying Nunn is going to turn into a perennial All-NBA point guard, but his numbers weren't far behind Goran Dragic and Fred VanVleet's last year. If he becomes a VanVleet, Kemba Walker, Lou Williams, Nick Van Exel type player over the next 2 years, that would just be outstanding for Miami.

[BNM]

Healthy Conley to start the season
Full season of Clarkson
Massive upgrade from Bradley to Favors
No more Mudiay in the rotation (Harrison likely won't be in it, either)
Bogdanovic recovered from a wrist injury he played with for a large portion of the season

I think Utah is better in the sense that (a) their regular season win percentage will be better, and (b) they are more prepared for certain matchups in the playoffs (Favors would have made a massive difference against Denver). Favors is severely underrated. He's a top 10-12 center, and he's our backup now, Utah is going to be dangerous. If LeBron slows down a bit, Utah is better than the Lakers. They might be better than the Clippers and Nuggets as-is, but any injuries, etc. could tip it in favor of the Jazz. Obviously we could also have injuries, but there is a path for Utah to make the finals that isn't completely inconceivable, and it is the first time we can say that since Stockton and Malone were here.

The Jazz are better if they get the bubble version of Mitchell, who was shooting lights out and making good reads, but I think your appraisal might be a tad optimistic. I think the Jazz are the 3rd best team in the west, behind the LA teams, unless everything just clicks for Portland or Denver.

Portland has shooters everywhere with Dame, CJ, Trent Jr., Simons, Covington, and Melo. I think they'll actually miss Whiteside, but they could have nights where they just run over teams offensively.

I guarantee POR will not miss Whiteside and his empty stats. He is horrible defending in space, against the pick and roll, and he does not box out his man.

With Whiteside, POR had the 3rd best offense, but was 28th in both defensive efficiency and defensive rebounding percentage. With Nurkic back, plus their addtions at the forward spots, they will be a top 10 defensive team (they were top 6 with Nurk, Aminu and Harkless in 2017-18).

Add in getting Collins and Hood back, plus Kanter, Covington, Jones, Melo coming off the bench, and the emergence of Trent and POR will be one of the most improved teams in the league this season. They will be way better defensively and have gone from one of the worst benches in the league to one of the best.

[stormi]

Oh I think its pretty clear they downgraded in talent in the name of fit and getting their finances sorted moving forward. I don't think they will be worse, but there is definitely an argument.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

For the first time in the Simmons/Embiid era. And that was due to....... Al Horford. Not a bad player in a vacuum but he's too clunky and a horrendous fit alongside Joel Embiid. Not just offensively where one of them was forced to camp out along the three point line, but on the other end of the floor he caused concerns because of his lack of mobility. Neither him or Embiid are meant to be guarding forwards. Embiid was the designated center so it was Horford getting burned along the perimeter by quicker forwards all season long.

Whatever the opinion is on Danny Green, he's still an excellent and switchable defender 1-3 who's been a dependable shooter over the course of his career; and started every single playoff game for two different championship teams in back to back years.



Green in for Horford is a major win for the Sixers on court production. Seth is a whatever player but his game also opens up the floor for Embiid and Simmons to work. Josh Richardson is the worst kind of tweener, doesn't really excel in any one area or do something to promote a positive connection between the two stars.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Many teams became better.

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

The only one I really agree disagree with is the Sixers and possibly the Pelicans.

While I agree talent may have dropped a little bit for Philly, the overall roster construction is so much better this season. At worst I see them as neutral.

The Pelicans I hate the roster construction and think it will offset any improvements made by the BI and Zion, plus the loss of Jrue. But the shooting and floor spacing on that team is abysmal.

[Liam_Gallagher]

LOL @ the Lakers staying neutral. They essentially won the offseason after winning the chip, which is extremely rare. They replaced Rondo (34 yrs old), Howard (34 yrs yrs old), Green (33 yrs old), and McGee (33 yrs old) with Harrell (27 yrs old), Shroeder (27 yrs old), Matthews and Gasol.

[stormi]

LOL @ the Lakers staying neutral. They essentially won the offseason after winning the chip, which is extremely rare. They replaced Rondo (34 yrs old), Howard (34 yrs yrs old), Green (33 yrs old), and McGee (33 yrs old) with Harrell (27 yrs old), Shroeder (27 yrs old), Matthews and Gasol.

Got a lot worse defensively imo. 3 of those 4 names you mentioned are liabilities come playoff time. Harrell and Dennis will shoulder a lot of the offensive burden from Lebron though during the regular season so he can coast more tbt those Cleveland 2.0 days. Matthews however was an excellent pickup.

[Dnt hate]

Many teams became better.

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

The Sixers got wayyy better, shows how well you know about the Sixers/basketball

[Catchall]

Healthy Conley to start the season
Full season of Clarkson
Massive upgrade from Bradley to Favors
No more Mudiay in the rotation (Harrison likely won't be in it, either)
Bogdanovic recovered from a wrist injury he played with for a large portion of the season

I think Utah is better in the sense that (a) their regular season win percentage will be better, and (b) they are more prepared for certain matchups in the playoffs (Favors would have made a massive difference against Denver). Favors is severely underrated. He's a top 10-12 center, and he's our backup now, Utah is going to be dangerous. If LeBron slows down a bit, Utah is better than the Lakers. They might be better than the Clippers and Nuggets as-is, but any injuries, etc. could tip it in favor of the Jazz. Obviously we could also have injuries, but there is a path for Utah to make the finals that isn't completely inconceivable, and it is the first time we can say that since Stockton and Malone were here.

The Jazz are better if they get the bubble version of Mitchell, who was shooting lights out and making good reads, but I think your appraisal might be a tad optimistic. I think the Jazz are the 3rd best team in the west, behind the LA teams, unless everything just clicks for Portland or Denver.

Portland has shooters everywhere with Dame, CJ, Trent Jr., Simons, Covington, and Melo. I think they'll actually miss Whiteside, but they could have nights where they just run over teams offensively.

I guarantee POR will not miss Whiteside and his empty stats. He is horrible defending in space, against the pick and roll, and he does not box out his man.

With Whiteside, POR had the 3rd best offense, but was 28th in both defensive efficiency and defensive rebounding percentage. With Nurkic back, plus their addtions at the forward spots, they will be a top 10 defensive team (they were top 6 with Nurk, Aminu and Harkless in 2017-18).

Add in getting Collins and Hood back, plus Kanter, Covington, Jones, Melo coming off the bench, and the emergence of Trent and POR will be one of the most improved teams in the league this season. They will be way better defensively and have gone from one of the worst benches in the league to one of the best.

Whiteside was a deterrent at the rim and an underrated rebounder. Kanter is like a checkered flag guarding in pick-and-roll. I haven't seen Collins guard at the 5, but maybe he helps in the paint. Covington and Derrick Jones Jr. help on the perimeter for sure.

If the defense clicks, I think Portland could pass Dallas and possibly Denver this year to be a top-4 seed in the west.

[Dnt hate]

Oh I think its pretty clear they downgraded in talent in the name of fit and getting their finances sorted moving forward. I don't think they will be worse, but there is definitely an argument.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

The sixers were and still are a great defensive team, I would argue they are a better defensive team now and they improved kn spacing and offense which will lead to easier defensive situations, and therefore they are way, better u lil hater u

[JJ_PR]

Atlanta Hawks: Better
Boston Celtics: Better
Brooklyn Nets: Neutral
Charlotte Hornets: Better
Chicago Bulls: Better
Cleveland Cavaliers: Better
Dallas Mavericks: Neutral
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Better
Golden State Warriors: Worse
Houston Rockets: Neutral
Indiana Pacers: Worse
Los Angeles Clippers: Neutral
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Worse
Miami Heat: Worse
Milwaukee Bucks: Better
Minnesota Timberwolves: Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Worse
New York Knicks: Worse
OKC Thunder: Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Better
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Better
Sacramento Kings: Worse
San Antonio Spurs: Worse
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Worse
Washington Wizards: Better

[The_Hater]

Heat got better, I didn’t see that coming...