Bears 2019/20; George McCaskey is on the clock

[dice]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst..

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

You nailed it, Oden was absolutley regarded almost universally to be the better prospect than Durant. Oden was seen as the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing and was believed to have a floor of Mutombo. He had almost lebron-like level of hype surrounding him, he was being called the best center prospect since shaq as a sophomore in high school. He led Ohio state to a national title game where they barely lost to a juggernaut florida team with 1 hand!

Durant was way more of an "unknown" to most scouts because there had never been a 7 footer with guard skills like him, he didnt help himself when at the combine he couldnt bench press 135lbs even once, his slender frame was seen as a massive red flag and they questioned his durability as well as if he'd be able to finish around the rim with grown men bodying him.

Anyone who doesnt remember that is experiencing revisionist history. It's easy in hindisght to forget or make bold claims but very few people at the time expected things to play out this way.

Your marvin williams analogy is also pretty accurate

oden was a big deal, but it is absolutely not true that he experienced anything resembling a lebron level of hype

[dice]

I don't agree on your analogy. Oden was equally as hot if not a bigger prospect than Durant. And when he played, he met the hype. Trubisky was based on pure speculation and misevaluation. One of the things that Pace loved was his deep ball. His deep ball is like league worst.

I'd say it would be like taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, except you traded the farm to get him.

The problem with some of those comparisons is that there were 8 other players selected. Before Mahomes went.

Do the Browns get flack for not taking Mahomes #1? If they knew he was THIS good, how come they are not in this never ending bashing of the pick? I mean, Myles Garret is good, but is he better the a QB with a HoF trajectory? 49ers? Jags? Titans? Jets? Chargers? Panthers? Bengals?

The Bengals took John effing Ross right before Mahomes, does their fan base kick themselves in the scrotum every week?

My point is, NO ONE knew Mahomes was THIS good. And all the 20/20 vision people throw, like they knew, is all rediculous. Even the "Well, if you really look at it, the tape all matched up, I knew it for sure" even all those fools are stupid. Mahomes had questions coming into the draft. Thats why 10th.

The Bears are for sure gonna pay for their mistake, but if the comparison is that we passed on "Michael Jordan" then so did 9 other teams. They'll all be fired. But its nauseating to to act like Mahomes was this sure thing coming out. If he was he would of went #1. And Ryan Pace will be long gone.

The Bears missing out on Mahomes is not fireable in itself. What's fireable is the fact that Pace fell in love with Trubisky who had not demonstrated anything at NC. Hell, he only started something crazy like 12 games. You never take a QB who's only played that much, especially if they didn't play the highest competition. And it's not like NC is some QB factory either. Not only did he fall in love with him, he misevaluated him big time. Not only did he do that, he ignored his HC and his scouts who all liked Watson. Not only did he fall in love, not listen to his scouts/HC and miss out on two HoF QBs, he negotiated against himself to draft the player he misevaluated by using so much draft capital to move up one spot for a player that no one was going to take.

If you haven't read up on Pace negotiating against himself, err, with Lynch who laughed at Pace, I strongly suggest you do. That story alone, regardless of the names of the players, is fireable to me.

It's a mistake of huge proportions. Most definitely fireable.

i disagree that trubisky alone is a fireable offense, though if i was pace's boss i may well have said something like "ok, ryan, this is an awfully bold move. you're basically saying that trubisky is head and shoulders a better prospect than mahomes and watson. i'll let you do this deal, but if it fails you're on thin ice"

i would NOT have let him make the mack trade. and if he came to me with that idea i'd question why i hadn't given him a basic nfl GM competency quiz before i'd hired him

[nitetrain8603]

The problem with some of those comparisons is that there were 8 other players selected. Before Mahomes went.

Do the Browns get flack for not taking Mahomes #1? If they knew he was THIS good, how come they are not in this never ending bashing of the pick? I mean, Myles Garret is good, but is he better the a QB with a HoF trajectory? 49ers? Jags? Titans? Jets? Chargers? Panthers? Bengals?

The Bengals took John effing Ross right before Mahomes, does their fan base kick themselves in the scrotum every week?

My point is, NO ONE knew Mahomes was THIS good. And all the 20/20 vision people throw, like they knew, is all rediculous. Even the "Well, if you really look at it, the tape all matched up, I knew it for sure" even all those fools are stupid. Mahomes had questions coming into the draft. Thats why 10th.

The Bears are for sure gonna pay for their mistake, but if the comparison is that we passed on "Michael Jordan" then so did 9 other teams. They'll all be fired. But its nauseating to to act like Mahomes was this sure thing coming out. If he was he would of went #1. And Ryan Pace will be long gone.

The Bears missing out on Mahomes is not fireable in itself. What's fireable is the fact that Pace fell in love with Trubisky who had not demonstrated anything at NC. Hell, he only started something crazy like 12 games. You never take a QB who's only played that much, especially if they didn't play the highest competition. And it's not like NC is some QB factory either. Not only did he fall in love with him, he misevaluated him big time. Not only did he do that, he ignored his HC and his scouts who all liked Watson. Not only did he fall in love, not listen to his scouts/HC and miss out on two HoF QBs, he negotiated against himself to draft the player he misevaluated by using so much draft capital to move up one spot for a player that no one was going to take.

If you haven't read up on Pace negotiating against himself, err, with Lynch who laughed at Pace, I strongly suggest you do. That story alone, regardless of the names of the players, is fireable to me.

It's a mistake of huge proportions. Most definitely fireable.

i disagree that trubisky alone is a fireable offense, though if i was pace's boss i may well have said something like "ok, ryan, this is an awfully bold move. you're basically saying that trubisky is head and shoulders a better prospect than mahomes and watson. i'll let you do this deal, but if it fails you're on thin ice"

i would NOT have let him make the mack trade. and if he came to me with that idea i'd question why i hadn't given him a basic nfl GM competency quiz before i'd hired him

Drafting Trubisky alone with not firable, but the way he did it, was certainly.

I also believe the Mack trade was worth it and that if they had a competent defensive coordinator, he'd look like the best defensive player in the game.

[dice]

The Bears missing out on Mahomes is not fireable in itself. What's fireable is the fact that Pace fell in love with Trubisky who had not demonstrated anything at NC. Hell, he only started something crazy like 12 games. You never take a QB who's only played that much, especially if they didn't play the highest competition. And it's not like NC is some QB factory either. Not only did he fall in love with him, he misevaluated him big time. Not only did he do that, he ignored his HC and his scouts who all liked Watson. Not only did he fall in love, not listen to his scouts/HC and miss out on two HoF QBs, he negotiated against himself to draft the player he misevaluated by using so much draft capital to move up one spot for a player that no one was going to take.

If you haven't read up on Pace negotiating against himself, err, with Lynch who laughed at Pace, I strongly suggest you do. That story alone, regardless of the names of the players, is fireable to me.

It's a mistake of huge proportions. Most definitely fireable.

i disagree that trubisky alone is a fireable offense, though if i was pace's boss i may well have said something like "ok, ryan, this is an awfully bold move. you're basically saying that trubisky is head and shoulders a better prospect than mahomes and watson. i'll let you do this deal, but if it fails you're on thin ice"

i would NOT have let him make the mack trade. and if he came to me with that idea i'd question why i hadn't given him a basic nfl GM competency quiz before i'd hired him

Drafting Trubisky alone with not firable, but the way he did it, was certainly.

I also believe the Mack trade was worth it and that if they had a competent defensive coordinator, he'd look like the best defensive player in the game.

first of all, nobody is gonna look better than aaron donald regardless of circumstances. secondly, it's not about mack's performance. anyone who doesn't fixate on sacks recognizes that he's still a monster. it's the reality that you CAN overpay for a great player. and the bears did that. ryan pace valued khalil mack more than any other team in the league did. and WAY more than the raiders did. i don't even think the raiders are a well run team, but they're better off for having made that deal

it is not a skill to outbid every other team in the league for a player. not when it's mitch trubisky and not when it's khalil mack. teams win with the QB position, with lots of quality players on rookie contracts, and with coaching. they rarely win by going in big on free agents, who are systematically overpaid on the whole because those on rookie deals are systematically UNDERpaid. but when it comes to free agents, much better to spend 12 mil a year of that budget on an akiem hicks than 24 mil PLUS draft picks for khalil mack (he might be worth the 24 mil, but not the picks on top). then you have assets left over to use on...oh let's say your offensive line

[fleet]

I didn't realize the team we traded down with for Shaheen drafted Budda Baker with our pick. That hurts a little

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2020/12/12/22169572/bears-ryan-pace-general-manager-six-6-biggest-mistake-mitch-trubisky-deshaun-watson-robbie-gould-nfl

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Someone has told Montgomery to stop dancing in the backfield and hit the hole the last couple of weeks. Great start for him.

[Susan]

Someone has told Montgomery to stop dancing in the backfield and hit the hole the last couple of weeks. Great start for him.

He had ZERO holes earlier in the season.

He's a freaking stud though. Who knew having a shaky QB situation it would be a good idea to lean on the running game.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

That hole was huge. Glad to see Montgomery not get caught from behind, thats a long run.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

This is so bitter sweet.

[nitetrain8603]

i disagree that trubisky alone is a fireable offense, though if i was pace's boss i may well have said something like "ok, ryan, this is an awfully bold move. you're basically saying that trubisky is head and shoulders a better prospect than mahomes and watson. i'll let you do this deal, but if it fails you're on thin ice"

i would NOT have let him make the mack trade. and if he came to me with that idea i'd question why i hadn't given him a basic nfl GM competency quiz before i'd hired him

Drafting Trubisky alone with not firable, but the way he did it, was certainly.

I also believe the Mack trade was worth it and that if they had a competent defensive coordinator, he'd look like the best defensive player in the game.

first of all, nobody is gonna look better than aaron donald regardless of circumstances. secondly, it's not about mack's performance. anyone who doesn't fixate on sacks recognizes that he's still a monster. it's the reality that you CAN overpay for a great player. and the bears did that. ryan pace valued khalil mack more than any other team in the league did. and WAY more than the raiders did. i don't even think the raiders are a well run team, but they're better off for having made that deal

it is not a skill to outbid every other team in the league for a player. not when it's mitch trubisky and not when it's khalil mack. teams win with the QB position, with lots of quality players on rookie contracts, and with coaching. they rarely win by going in big on free agents, who are systematically overpaid on the whole because those on rookie deals are systematically UNDERpaid. but when it comes to free agents, much better to spend 12 mil a year of that budget on an akiem hicks than 24 mil PLUS draft picks for khalil mack (he might be worth the 24 mil, but not the picks on top). then you have assets left over to use on...oh let's say your offensive line

I disagree. Mack was close going to the Rams and Pace did what was necessary to close the deal. The Packers were in on him as well. When you trade those assets too, you have to resign him. That would be one of the only circumstances where Pace did his job and executed properly. I cannot hold Pace liable for any of that. He did a great job in fact.

Where he did a bad job though is literally using all those picks on Mitchell Trubisky. That was awful. All of his misses in the early rounds is indefensible as well. Not wanting to even hear what coaches or scouts say as a rookie GM and how the deal with Lynch came about - that is awful.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Is Chuck Pagano at some point going to do anything to stop Watson running the ball? Probably not. Keep stunting your ends to the inside, that surely will work.

[2018C3]

At this point, I feel like a bad fan for actually wanting them to loose.

I have already hit the breaking point where a loss is more valuable to the teams future than a win.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Not impressed with Pagano's defense. Maybe the Broncos will fire Fangio.

[Susan]

Jesus

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Not impressed with Pagano's defense. Maybe the Broncos will fire Fangio.

Man this works everytime

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Wow that was a great decisive run by Montgomery.

[Dresden]

Is HOU's defense that bad, or does our offense suddenly look dangerous these last 6 halves?

[Dresden]

Lovie Smith got sacked. 17-39 in 5 years. Why is Illinois always so bad in football? They haven't been good since Tony Eason was there in the 80's. That's a lot of futility for a school in a state as populous as Illinois is.

[Chi town]

If we put up 30 in the first half....

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I don't think its a coincidence that our offense has looked better with Mitch coming back and a different play caller. Yes they've still made their mistakes but they are moving the ball.