Jordan McLaughlin RFA Status

[Jedzz]

I understand that JMac might be waiting for teams to play whole preseason with available PGs in their roster, then deciding to sign him. So it might be the case that till first game of regular season there wont be any news about contract negotiations at all. I dont think that Nowell can shoot JMac out of 15th spot, as our AST:TO ratio suggest, we could use a playmaker who is familiar with this system. In any case, I hope that Jordan will find a home, a new one, or old one.

Looks like some nonbelievers of Nowell last season finally got their first taste of him more ready to play at this level. In the first preseason game I thought he looked like I expected last year as a rookie, if he would have had a Summer league and real shot at any role last season during that preseason. He looks capable, but still looks like a rookie would. Which includes much higher game IQ than Okogie Culver immediately, and finally the shots started falling. Although I don't see the full confidence just yet. Hopefully he gets a few more chances to show that he's a competent basketball player with a high level shot once he's more confident. If they team won't give him a role, he might at least earn a bit of trade interest.

I've already been preparing for the possibility JMac doesn't stay here. Hope the team makes the right choices still on those that are left if JMac isn't here. I see some real issues here still.

I agree completely Minimus, that as a playmaker Nowell doesn't quite approach the level Jmac showed last year. For that matter, neither does Culver, Okogie, or our #1 pick get any where near as close. I didn't expect the team to look composed and aware of each other just yet, but I did sense a lack of gameIQ and playmaking at times. Hagan and Nowell looked like a more competent pair playing together then a lot of the other guys playing together, I think probably just game IQ wise.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

I am terrified every time other NBA team waives a PG... Rosas and JMac, you need to find a solution.

[TheZachAttack]

This is the situation that makes me *start* to doubt the efficacy of the Rosas regime. I know that sounds dramatic, but me like many others have given Rosas the benefit of the doubt in his regime and trusting the prosas based on the idea that he and his team were smart and analytically sound.

McLaughlin seems like the type of player that would be the focus of an analytical scheme in retaining and it seems like moving bit pieces (say Naz Reid or others) to make sure that we keep McLaughlin would be important.

The fact that Rosas has not figured this out causes me, for probably the first time, to start to doubt Rosas.

[Klomp]

This is the situation that makes me *start* to doubt the efficacy of the Rosas regime. I know that sounds dramatic, but me like many others have given Rosas the benefit of the doubt in his regime and trusting the prosas based on the idea that he and his team were smart and analytically sound.

McLaughlin seems like the type of player that would be the focus of an analytical scheme in retaining and it seems like moving bit pieces (say Naz Reid or others) to make sure that we keep McLaughlin would be important.

The fact that Rosas has not figured this out causes me, for probably the first time, to start to doubt Rosas.

Important to keep =/= important to keep at any cost.

Especially at PG, where over $45 million is committed in each of the next two seasons. While Russell and Rubio have positional flexibility, McLaughlin does not.

[Folklore]

I'd go as far as to say that if JMC had a sweeter looking jumper and shot better from the line he'd be just as good or better than Dlo.

[Klomp]

I'd go as far as to say that if JMC had a sweeter looking jumper and shot better from the line he'd be just as good or better than Dlo.

The point is though, he doesn't.

[Folklore]

I'd go as far as to say that if JMC had a sweeter looking jumper and shot better from the line he'd be just as good or better than Dlo.

The point is though, he doesn't.

But what if he gets one? Mclaughlin could be am potential all-star if given the same minutes.

[TheZachAttack]

This is the situation that makes me *start* to doubt the efficacy of the Rosas regime. I know that sounds dramatic, but me like many others have given Rosas the benefit of the doubt in his regime and trusting the prosas based on the idea that he and his team were smart and analytically sound.

McLaughlin seems like the type of player that would be the focus of an analytical scheme in retaining and it seems like moving bit pieces (say Naz Reid or others) to make sure that we keep McLaughlin would be important.

The fact that Rosas has not figured this out causes me, for probably the first time, to start to doubt Rosas.

Important to keep =/= important to keep at any cost.

Especially at PG, where over $45 million is committed in each of the next two seasons. While Russell and Rubio have positional flexibility, McLaughlin does not.

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

[Klomp]

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

Per 36 minutes:
Player A: 14.6 ppg, 7.9 apg on .403/.296/.818 shooting (23.8 mpg)
Player B: 14.0 ppg, 7.6 apg on .489/.382/.667 shooting (19.7 mpg)

Player B is Jordan McLaughlin last year. Player A is Shabazz Napier last year (Minnesota stats only). McLaughlin was more efficient, but had basically the same output. I don't hear the moaning and groaning to sign Napier. I think we need to be careful not to get too caught up in the feel-good nature of the story of McLaughlin.

[Jedzz]

I'd go as far as to say that if JMC had a sweeter looking jumper and shot better from the line he'd be just as good or better than Dlo.

The point is though, he doesn't.

But what if he gets one? Mclaughlin could be am potential all-star if given the same minutes.

This is classic. He has to be better than Dlo to deserve a roster spot. I see the pointt now.

If Jmac did have 30+ minutes for 82 games he would indeed rack up massive stats. Nobody would be able to hide behind their draft status and shorty hate anymore. However I'm not sure he could handle that load and stay healthy very many seasons. Then again, neither do the all-stars so...

[Jedzz]

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

Per 36 minutes:
Player A: 14.6 ppg, 7.9 apg on .403/.296/.818 shooting (23.8 mpg)
Player B: 14.0 ppg, 7.6 apg on .489/.382/.667 shooting (19.7 mpg)

Player B is Jordan McLaughlin last year. Player A is Shabazz Napier last year (Minnesota stats only). McLaughlin was more efficient, but had basically the same output. I don't hear the moaning and groaning to sign Napier. I think we need to be careful not to get too caught up in the feel-good nature of the story of McLaughlin.

Really not a good example given. You've strained yourself to make this work for you.

You are cherry picking while purposely ignoring major differences in roster usage and Glossing over the major differences in your own posted numbers, to claim the end result was the same? Napier played well enough here, I think the system here worked for Napier. Where people have been claiming it did for JMac and I don't think it had anything to do with him.

You claim same output while showing us averages for one guy that started most his games (61% starts) and one that barely started (7%) of his games. He averaged 46% from 3FG in games of 20 mins or more. It's more like 50% from 3FG from JMac if from 23 mins or more, and that's where Napier's average game time was.

Couple things:
1
Napier got 22 STARTS here and practiced fully with this team. Very much a part of the roster.
JMac got 2 starts and was on the two way with G so not really practicing here with team much.

You don't see a difference in that? I do. Much different circumstances to play in, and taking a peak at JMac's actual numbers while playing 23+ minnute games your point falls on its face. Imagine if he came into the season practicing with the team and playing 23 minutes or more most games.

2
.296 to .382 from 3pt range is an absolutely significant 3pt difference, not something you can wash over lightly.


3
Then also the finishing at the rim wasn't comparable. Napier simply didn't have the same range or height of skills even if he was perfectly competent at many things. That's why he's the system fit performer while JMac can fit into anything.

TS%
Napier .539
JMac .587
That is a significant bump up to JMac, even with Napier having signifcantly better FT%. Goes to show how different the higher 2FG% (57% to 54%) and higher 3FG (38% to 30%) really was.

Lastly, I do have posts here begging for Napier to continue getting starts at PG over Culver, Teague.

[urinesane]

Read on Twitter

I am terrified every time other NBA team waives a PG... Rosas and JMac, you need to find a solution.

Damn, Unfadeable lost his job, so I'm sure he'll be back here hyping Lamelo a ton.

[Folklore]

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

Per 36 minutes:
Player A: 14.6 ppg, 7.9 apg on .403/.296/.818 shooting (23.8 mpg)
Player B: 14.0 ppg, 7.6 apg on .489/.382/.667 shooting (19.7 mpg)

Player B is Jordan McLaughlin last year. Player A is Shabazz Napier last year (Minnesota stats only). McLaughlin was more efficient, but had basically the same output. I don't hear the moaning and groaning to sign Napier. I think we need to be careful not to get too caught up in the feel-good nature of the story of McLaughlin.

Really not a good example given. You've strained yourself to make this work for you.

You are cherry picking while purposely ignoring major differences in roster usage and Glossing over the major differences in your own posted numbers, to claim the end result was the same? Napier played well enough here, I think the system here worked for Napier. Where people have been claiming it did for JMac and I don't think it had anything to do with him.

You claim same output while showing us averages for one guy that started most his games (61% starts) and one that barely started (7%) of his games. He averaged 46% from 3FG in games of 20 mins or more. It's more like 50% from 3FG from JMac if from 23 mins or more, and that's where Napier's average game time was.

Couple things:
1
Napier got 22 STARTS here and practiced fully with this team. Very much a part of the roster.
JMac got 2 starts and was on the two way with G so not really practicing here with team much.

You don't see a difference in that? I do. Much different circumstances to play in, and taking a peak at JMac's actual numbers while playing 23+ minnute games your point falls on its face. Imagine if he came into the season practicing with the team and playing 23 minutes or more most games.

2
.296 to .382 from 3pt range is an absolutely significant 3pt difference, not something you can wash over lightly.


3
Then also the finishing at the rim wasn't comparable. Napier simply didn't have the same range or height of skills even if he was perfectly competent at many things. That's why he's the system fit performer while JMac can fit into anything.

TS%
Napier .539
JMac .587
That is a significant bump up to JMac, even with Napier having signifcantly better FT%. Goes to show how different the higher 2FG% (57% to 54%) and higher 3FG (38% to 30%) really was.

Lastly, I do have posts here begging for Napier to continue getting starts at PG over Culver, Teague.

Thank you. I was about to call him out on his cherry picking too.I\m not surprised to see who agreed with him. I'f we look at the stats of Ricky and DLo they aren't beating him in many categories.

[TheZachAttack]

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

Per 36 minutes:
Player A: 14.6 ppg, 7.9 apg on .403/.296/.818 shooting (23.8 mpg)
Player B: 14.0 ppg, 7.6 apg on .489/.382/.667 shooting (19.7 mpg)

Player B is Jordan McLaughlin last year. Player A is Shabazz Napier last year (Minnesota stats only). McLaughlin was more efficient, but had basically the same output. I don't hear the moaning and groaning to sign Napier. I think we need to be careful not to get too caught up in the feel-good nature of the story of McLaughlin.

Really not a good example given. You've strained yourself to make this work for you.

You are cherry picking while purposely ignoring major differences in roster usage and Glossing over the major differences in your own posted numbers, to claim the end result was the same? Napier played well enough here, I think the system here worked for Napier. Where people have been claiming it did for JMac and I don't think it had anything to do with him.

You claim same output while showing us averages for one guy that started most his games (61% starts) and one that barely started (7%) of his games. He averaged 46% from 3FG in games of 20 mins or more. It's more like 50% from 3FG from JMac if from 23 mins or more, and that's where Napier's average game time was.

Couple things:
1
Napier got 22 STARTS here and practiced fully with this team. Very much a part of the roster.
JMac got 2 starts and was on the two way with G so not really practicing here with team much.

You don't see a difference in that? I do. Much different circumstances to play in, and taking a peak at JMac's actual numbers while playing 23+ minnute games your point falls on its face. Imagine if he came into the season practicing with the team and playing 23 minutes or more most games.

2
.296 to .382 from 3pt range is an absolutely significant 3pt difference, not something you can wash over lightly.


3
Then also the finishing at the rim wasn't comparable. Napier simply didn't have the same range or height of skills even if he was perfectly competent at many things. That's why he's the system fit performer while JMac can fit into anything.

TS%
Napier .539
JMac .587
That is a significant bump up to JMac, even with Napier having signifcantly better FT%. Goes to show how different the higher 2FG% (57% to 54%) and higher 3FG (38% to 30%) really was.

Lastly, I do have posts here begging for Napier to continue getting starts at PG over Culver, Teague.

What do you see McLaughlin as? Are you with me on Van Fleet lite if not more?

[Jedzz]

I'f we look at the stats of Ricky and DLo they aren't beating him in many categories.

The thing is he's really a different kind of PG than they are.

[Jedzz]

What do you see McLaughlin as? Are you with me on Van Fleet lite if not more?

I think you might be kind of just phishing me here just asking for more, but I don't really see a VanVleet. His humble beginnings in the league could be a good parrallel. We've recently discussed that. VV has been trained for a different level of defense from Toronto playing and he's also a bulkier dude. VV also doesn't quite have the quickness and skill of JMac. But VV is fairly unique in how he gets things done imo. Would be hard to find someone like him.

Maybe closer though to a Damian Lillard. Just this past season Lillard showed a 126 Orating and 117 Drating. It took six seasons for Lillard to get into the 120's in Orating. As a rookie, Lillard was 108 Orating and 112 Drating averging 36 mins/g and 19 points. JMac could have had that kind of start to his career if someone gave him that chance. If you wanted to compare him to someone and call him lite anyone, maybe it's Lillard. But in some ways he might be better, others not quite. JMac as a rookie was 121 Orating, 113 Drating. I repeat, it took Lillard into his sixth season to show that kind of offensive prowess.

Drive and kick, not his only way to play but maybe his best, with the finishing so quick it's hard to see his perfection and the quickness and moves lethal. Defenders can't tell if he's going under or right over. It just opens up everyone else and then you start seeing the decision making in a blink of an eye. The passes between arms of defenders a single foot away from him. He knows when a defender has leveraged position on him and he's prepared for it all. You don't see him plow into people senselessly like so many on this team. He's already seeing options before he needs them and he's ready to pull that trigger. But if he sees an opening he's fearless about it. Then you see his 3pt shooting. What can't he do? And all of it seems to get better the more he's involved.

Would have loved to have seen him right now amping up and feeding guys like Edwards, Nowell, Towns, Beasley man it could have been something. Think about what made people really notice Murray in the playoffs, what did he show more of that made that difference and it was the drives to the net with amazing finishes that started to break others on his team open.

His height is what it is and it's something people need to let go, like others have for other good height challenged players in the league. But even if you can't expect 6 rebounds a night from him, or great stuffs on other gards on defense, so what. Would you be willing to hide the defense of one player if he made the other 4 on the court that much better offensively and he was at least wise and active on the defensive end? I would, and many teams do exactly that all across the league right now for wicked skilled PGs. Some are small players. One is named Damian Lillard and nobody bats an eye when they max him even though he's short and he's not on any all defensive teams and can't switch to defend SFs. Who cares.

But what if he gets one? Mclaughlin could be am potential all-star if given the same minutes.

If JMac was drafted in FR high enough, and gets 36 mins/g like Lillard, or like Wiggins got here. Were able to play through their rookie weak games and still get 36 no matter what... I really think he has a chance to win a ROY with everyone then admitting all the amazing things he showed as a rookie, and then you see him in multiple skills challenges like Lillard in 2013 showing off all the different things he brings to the table. But there it is, he wasn't drafted. So start adding up the excuses for why he shouldn't be topping minutes charts. If Dame was playing off bench for 15-19 minutes he might end up looking a lot like Jmac. They aren't twins, but if I'm searching for a lite version this is my closest hit. You could aim not quite so high and list say Augustin, but JMac is more than just him.

[Jedzz]

ESPN had McLaughlin listed on the 2nd preseason game boxscore as dashes, like Bolmaro. They know something we don't? Or is it just an indication they still have control over his rights currently? He really should not stay here only to be buried behind Dlo/Rubio/Edwards/Culver and whoever else. Let the team wallow in it's lack of game iq.

[Jedzz]

Read this on hoopsrumors:

Notable Veterans Still Available In Free Agency
December 15th

A team seeking a player with some upside may prefer to turn to Emmanuel Mudiay, a former lottery pick who is still just 24 years old, or Jordan McLaughlin, though he’s still a restricted free agent and may be hard to pry away from the Timberwolves.

That RFA thing...still a bit..

I found out the Bucks had a sort of similar decision to make on a guy they had, maybe not quite a JMac ceiling. But another shorty that can get things done - the Gleague MVP. However Bucks recalled his QO in November as they had targeted bringing in FA Vet DJ Augustin (yet another shorty 5-11 183). That player was Frank Mason III, 5-11 190 now 26 yrs old. Former 2nd round pick (early 30s). Initially played out a 3 yr 4+ million deal with SAC and then Bucks. Was going to be restricted this year, but they backed off the QO. Doesn't shoot 3's nearly as good as JMac but he's another firecracker.

[Jedzz]

Another Small player example, contract handling after seeing court time, and now maybe another opening for JMac after an achilles injury to the player.

Houston Rockets - Chris Clemons 5'9 180 pg (Preseason achilles injury - Dec 15 2020)

Houston Rockets (2019–present)
After going undrafted in the 2019 NBA draft, Clemons joined the Houston Rockets for the 2019 NBA Summer League, and later signed an Exhibit 10 contract with the Rockets.[15] On October 17, the Rockets converted him to a two-way player.[16] Clemons made his NBA debut on November 3, scoring 16 points in a 129–100 loss to the Miami Heat.[17] On November 16, with Russell Westbrook and Eric Gordon sidelined due to injury, Clemons scored a career-high 19 points in a win over the Minnesota Timberwolves.[14] On December 27, the Houston Rockets announced that they had converted the contract with Clemons into standard NBA contract.[18] Clemons recorded 14 points and three rebounds on January 10, 2020, in a 113–92 loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder.[19] Clemons had his jersey retired at Campbell during the NBA All-Star Break.[14] On December 15, 2020 in a preseason game against the San Antonio Spurs, Clemons tore his Achilles while on defense.

This is possibly an example of a Team making good on a player performing well after coming up into the league the hard way. He got his shot to play and proved he could hang. They converted his two way deal to a standard contract. They didn't attempt to slave him below standard deals for endless ever just because of how he entered the league. Too bad on the Achilles injury. Another team for JMac's agent to speak with.

[KGdaBom]

I hear you. I just think there are things that should be lower on the priority list that appear may not be. I think if you're asking to trust a process, decision making is important. I am decision making orientated, even if at times the results don't end up working out. I am struggling to understand the decision making. This starts to open up cracks for me.

I like the Rosas churn philosophy and I understand not all moves will be wins, but I'm struggling to see why, when you get maybe your biggest win, you don't prioritize that. I also get why there are reasons why it's tough to sign him, but I am a person who buys the reasons to make things work rather than the reasons that something doesn't work.

Per 36 minutes:
Player A: 14.6 ppg, 7.9 apg on .403/.296/.818 shooting (23.8 mpg)
Player B: 14.0 ppg, 7.6 apg on .489/.382/.667 shooting (19.7 mpg)

Player B is Jordan McLaughlin last year. Player A is Shabazz Napier last year (Minnesota stats only). McLaughlin was more efficient, but had basically the same output. I don't hear the moaning and groaning to sign Napier. I think we need to be careful not to get too caught up in the feel-good nature of the story of McLaughlin.

Efficiency is CRITICAL.