Will the real AL Cy young please stand up?

Moderator: TyCobb

User avatar
Jose7
RealGM
Posts: 35,501
And1: 7,209
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

Will the real AL Cy young please stand up? 

Post#1 » by Jose7 » Sun Sep 9, 2007 11:04 pm

your winner, right here.

Image
BAF Suns

Chris Paul / Patrick Beverley / Shamorie Ponds
Buddy Hield / Timothy Luwawu / Stanley Johnson
Kendrick Nunn / Matisse Thybulle / Darius Miller
RJ Barrett / Kyle Kuzma / Dwayne Bacon
DeAndre Jordan / Kenrich Williams / DJ Wilson
mets87
Senior
Posts: 671
And1: 0
Joined: May 26, 2007

 

Post#2 » by mets87 » Sun Sep 9, 2007 11:20 pm

sabathia has been great but not the best in the AL
TyCobb
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 38,249
And1: 9,955
Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Location: Pitcher's Mound
     

 

Post#3 » by TyCobb » Sun Sep 9, 2007 11:40 pm

I'd say these four have been better:
Dan Haren OAK
Kelvim Escobar LAA
Johan Santana MIN
Erik Bedard BAL
Read more, learn more, change your posts.
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#4 » by bigboy1234 » Sun Sep 9, 2007 11:48 pm

I would currently give it to CC, although I think Bedard has pitched better this year, it's just that CC has pitched in 38 more innings which is a good amount.
mets87
Senior
Posts: 671
And1: 0
Joined: May 26, 2007

 

Post#5 » by mets87 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:19 am

santana. he's given up something like 40 fewer hits than IP, has over 200 K, and has the lowest WHIP among starters. just because his record is 15-11 doesn't mean he hasn't pitched very well. steve trachsel won 15 games last year with a 4.97 ERA. shows you the value of looking at wins, doesn't it?
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#6 » by bigboy1234 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:22 am

Who has used wins to judge a player? You act like any of us care about pitcher wins.
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,178
And1: 13,875
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

 

Post#7 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:25 am

Beckett is gonna win it. Most wins on the best record team in baseball. Suckas.

I'd definitely give it to Sabathia, though. Look at all those innings. He's on pace for 240 innings of 3.15 ERA ball.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
mets87
Senior
Posts: 671
And1: 0
Joined: May 26, 2007

 

Post#8 » by mets87 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:33 am

bigboy1234 wrote:Who has used wins to judge a player? You act like any of us care about pitcher wins.

the people who vote for the cy young (the ones whose opinion unfortunately matters) take wins into account. that point wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just annoying when i read stuff about pitchers and people go **** over wins. /rant
User avatar
Jose7
RealGM
Posts: 35,501
And1: 7,209
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

 

Post#9 » by Jose7 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:41 am

mets87 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


the people who vote for the cy young (the ones whose opinion unfortunately matters) take wins into account. that point wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just annoying when i read stuff about pitchers and people go **** over wins. /rant


and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.
BAF Suns

Chris Paul / Patrick Beverley / Shamorie Ponds
Buddy Hield / Timothy Luwawu / Stanley Johnson
Kendrick Nunn / Matisse Thybulle / Darius Miller
RJ Barrett / Kyle Kuzma / Dwayne Bacon
DeAndre Jordan / Kenrich Williams / DJ Wilson
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#10 » by bigboy1234 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 am

and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.

Because the pitcher has absolutely no control over how many runs the team scores for him. Verlander gets 7.53 runs a game while Rich Hill only 3.24, I guess thats pretty fair. Hell I'd rather use QS% over W-L.
User avatar
VinnyTheMick
RealGM
Posts: 13,843
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Getting wasted with Ron Swanson.
Contact:

 

Post#11 » by VinnyTheMick » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:04 am

Bleeding Green wrote:Beckett is gonna win it. Most wins on the best record team in baseball. Suckas.


Put your mod status on it, Sucka.
http://www.nyccan.org/
Ask questions. Demand answers.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth.- Albert Einstein
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,178
And1: 13,875
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

 

Post#12 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:30 am

No.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
User avatar
VinnyTheMick
RealGM
Posts: 13,843
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Getting wasted with Ron Swanson.
Contact:

 

Post#13 » by VinnyTheMick » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:36 am

Bleeding Green wrote:No.



:)
http://www.nyccan.org/
Ask questions. Demand answers.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth.- Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jose7
RealGM
Posts: 35,501
And1: 7,209
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

 

Post#14 » by Jose7 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:42 am

bigboy1234 wrote:
and why shouldnt wins be taken into account?

obviously they arent the best statistic to show how good a pitcher is but it shouldnt be dismisssed.

Because the pitcher has absolutely no control over how many runs the team scores for him. Verlander gets 7.53 runs a game while Rich Hill only 3.24, I guess thats pretty fair. Hell I'd rather use QS% over W-L.


if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.
BAF Suns

Chris Paul / Patrick Beverley / Shamorie Ponds
Buddy Hield / Timothy Luwawu / Stanley Johnson
Kendrick Nunn / Matisse Thybulle / Darius Miller
RJ Barrett / Kyle Kuzma / Dwayne Bacon
DeAndre Jordan / Kenrich Williams / DJ Wilson
User avatar
Jose7
RealGM
Posts: 35,501
And1: 7,209
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

 

Post#15 » by Jose7 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:50 am

rick astley will get a cy young vote by steve philips.
BAF Suns

Chris Paul / Patrick Beverley / Shamorie Ponds
Buddy Hield / Timothy Luwawu / Stanley Johnson
Kendrick Nunn / Matisse Thybulle / Darius Miller
RJ Barrett / Kyle Kuzma / Dwayne Bacon
DeAndre Jordan / Kenrich Williams / DJ Wilson
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#16 » by bigboy1234 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:55 am

if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

Theres a ton of players who don't belong in the HOF, thats a whole nother debate. Well a sub 3 ERA is pretty hard to comeback so by todays standards so sure, why not. But I don't use ERA like it's the end all be all, although it's a ton more important than pitcher wins.
like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.

Because it's traditition, just like RBI. Why have goalie wins, in hockey who knows, but I bet it won't change because it's been around so long so it's just accepted.
User avatar
Jose7
RealGM
Posts: 35,501
And1: 7,209
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

 

Post#17 » by Jose7 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:10 am

bigboy1234 wrote:
if wins werent of any importance then guys like ted lyons and red ruffing shouldnt be in the hall of fame and any starter with a sub 3 era should be submitted in the hof i guess.

Theres a ton of players who don't belong in the HOF, thats a whole nother debate. Well a sub 3 ERA is pretty hard to comeback so by todays standards so sure, why not. But I don't use ERA like it's the end all be all, although it's a ton more important than pitcher wins.
like i said is not the best stat to guage a pitcher but it should not be dismissed during voting and if that were the case, why even have wins for a pitcher.

Because it's traditition, just like RBI. Why have goalie wins, in hockey who knows, but I bet it won't change because it's been around so long so it's just accepted.


point taken but wins shouldnt be dismissed.
BAF Suns

Chris Paul / Patrick Beverley / Shamorie Ponds
Buddy Hield / Timothy Luwawu / Stanley Johnson
Kendrick Nunn / Matisse Thybulle / Darius Miller
RJ Barrett / Kyle Kuzma / Dwayne Bacon
DeAndre Jordan / Kenrich Williams / DJ Wilson
TheOUTLAW
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 41,920
And1: 2,757
Joined: Aug 23, 2002
     

 

Post#18 » by TheOUTLAW » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:45 am

Sabathia has outpitched Santana head to head several times this season. For that matter, so has Carmona.

If it weren't for terrible run support he'd already be over 20 wins
UncleDrew wrote: I get Buckets!
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,178
And1: 13,875
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

 

Post#19 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:47 am

That doesn't mean anything. The Indians have an infinitely better offense than the Twins.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
TheOUTLAW
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 41,920
And1: 2,757
Joined: Aug 23, 2002
     

 

Post#20 » by TheOUTLAW » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:56 am

There are quite a few teams with better offenses than the Indians, but only one that Santana has gone 0-5 against.
UncleDrew wrote: I get Buckets!

Return to The General MLB Board