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[fleet]

Haliburton 2 pt 2 ast 3 TO 15 min

[BullsFTW]

Good for Milwaukee. Glad Giannis stayed.

As for us, I personally believe the team will look very different in a couple of years. I think Pat Will and Coby will be here for a while, Zach maybe, and the rest I’m not so sure.

I know it’s only preseason but I’ve been disappointed on how WCJ & Lauri have been playing. Not sure if they’re the answers, but I’ll keep WCJ if I had to choose. At least I know he can play defense.

[TheStig]

Read on Twitter

What the actual ****?!?!?!

I actually have an NBA body now!

I'm sure teams are lining up to trade for him now. Houston is screwed.

When did Barkley grow a beard?

[troza]

With the Giannis extension we are sure now that probably we will see the Lakers at the top for a while... and that the Bulls so far are doing the correct thing: see the value of what they have, turn them into a good team or assets... but it seems we will have to bet on draft for a while.

Despite the early struggles, I’m not convinced we’re going to be bad enough to rely on the draft. We may have to hope for more injuries, which isn’t that big of an ask for this team.

If we aren't bad enough we can hope to have players that look good enough to get us more assets. Expiring contracts, players with good contracts or bad but play well in a position a contender is missing and so on.

When you depend on the draft, you just need to have draft picks so you have options.

[MGB8]

With the Giannis extension we are sure now that probably we will see the Lakers at the top for a while... and that the Bulls so far are doing the correct thing: see the value of what they have, turn them into a good team or assets... but it seems we will have to bet on draft for a while.

Despite the early struggles, I’m not convinced we’re going to be bad enough to rely on the draft. We may have to hope for more injuries, which isn’t that big of an ask for this team.

If we aren't bad enough we can hope to have players that look good enough to get us more assets. Expiring contracts, players with good contracts or bad but play well in a position a contender is missing and so on.

When you depend on the draft, you just need to have draft picks so you have options.

Good point - and one I've been making. It's not just about the high draft picks. It's about collecting / developing assets.

Look at the "big 3" Celtics. They drafted Pierce (10th overall) and drafted Rajon Rondo (21st overall) But they also flipped Jefferson (also late lotto) for post-prime KG. Then got Ray Allen as a FA.

The Raptors filled Valenciunas, a fairly talented player, for the "better fit for the ring push" Marc Gasol. They acquired Kyle Lowry for a protected first and a roll player. They drafted the solid but not spectacular Terrance Ross, and traded him for Serge Ibaka (coming off a down season). They drafted Demarr Derozan and Poetl, but flipped them, along with a first for a 1-year Kawhi and Danny Green rental. While drafted players Siakam (late first), OG (also late first) and Powell (2nd rounder) played key roles in their title - it was churning assets for better fitting assets that enabled them to get a ring.

Compare that asset management to the Sixers, who had to pay a 1st round pick out to move Al Horford a year after signing him to a nonsensical, too-big contract. They also drafted Dario Saric and developed Robert Covington, who they then flipped for Jimmy Butler.. then flipped him again to Miami (at pennies on the dollar for Josh Richardson) when the personalities didn't fit with Simmons and Embiid (probably a mistake).

Do-it-all wing Josh Richardson was churned (at a loss, value wise, IMO) for sharpshooter Seth Curry - we'll see how that works.

On the other hand, they traded a late first (Landry Shamet), salary, another later first (19th from this year) and the Heat's unprotected first for next year (likely to be later first) for Tobias Harris (but then overpaid him). Still, decent consolidation. Now, the move to get that Heat pick - sending perfect fit Mikal Bridges to Phoenix for not-currently-in-the-NBA Zhaire Smith... not so good.

[TheSuzerain]

THT got in shape and looked pretty nasty. Will be interesting if he breaks out.

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

[kodo]

Read on Twitter

What the actual ****?!?!?!

I actually have an NBA body now!

I'm sure teams are lining up to trade for him now. Houston is screwed.

When did Barkley grow a beard?

I thought this was Kendrick Perkins goofing around in a Houston uniform.

[sco]

Read on Twitter

What the actual ****?!?!?!

I actually have an NBA body now!

Did he use Felicio's trainer?

[TheStig]

I'm sure teams are lining up to trade for him now. Houston is screwed.

When did Barkley grow a beard?

I thought this was Kendrick Perkins goofing around in a Houston uniform.

Is it just me or is Kendrick Perkins just unbearable to listen to?

[MGB8]

Haliburton 2 pt 2 ast 3 TO 15 min

Ouch. He looked really good the first game. Goes to show ya...

[dougthonus]

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

Well, it might be the case that dumb front offices know to build off of second round draft picks, but I don't think that's what you meant. The hit rate on these picks is extremely low, if you can get them for free, sure, why not, but I wouldn't give up much for them. When you are the youngest team in the league, trying to add more super long shot young talent when you don't have adequate minutes for them to play is a difficult developmental situation for those types of players as well.

Sure, if you go and find the 2nd rounder or two every year that ends up a meanignful player it sounds smart, but odds are you aren't getting that guy.

[TheSuzerain]

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

Well, it might be the case that dumb front offices know to build off of second round draft picks, but I don't think that's what you meant. The hit rate on these picks is extremely low, if you can get them for free, sure, why not, but I wouldn't give up much for them. When you are the youngest team in the league, trying to add more super long shot young talent when you don't have adequate minutes for them to play is a difficult developmental situation for those types of players as well.

Sure, if you go and find the 2nd rounder or two every year that ends up a meanignful player it sounds smart, but odds are you aren't getting that guy.

Which is why you need to churn the bottom of the roster and not keep Cameron Payne around for years.

[RedBulls23]

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

Well, it might be the case that dumb front offices know to build off of second round draft picks, but I don't think that's what you meant. The hit rate on these picks is extremely low, if you can get them for free, sure, why not, but I wouldn't give up much for them. When you are the youngest team in the league, trying to add more super long shot young talent when you don't have adequate minutes for them to play is a difficult developmental situation for those types of players as well.

Sure, if you go and find the 2nd rounder or two every year that ends up a meanignful player it sounds smart, but odds are you aren't getting that guy.

I have it on good authority that 2nd round picks can be purchased for cash.

I think a rebuilding team should add as many young talent as possible. They don't need to play right away either. That's what the gleague is for as well in regards to development. When you're rebuilding through the draft, and knowing that the draft is a crapshoot, it's better to have multiple shots at it.

[dougthonus]

Which is why you need to churn the bottom of the roster and not keep Cameron Payne around for years.

In the end, it sounds like you just want the front office to guess better. Get picks and get the right guys, give up on the busts early, and develop the guys that go on to be good enough runway to do it. I agree that this is absolutely important to just make better decisions.

Systemically trying to acquire more second rounders is not a strategy that I think is effective in a vacuum (ie, something you should always do). It can be effective, but it requires you to have the right environment (vets to help, coaching staff focused on it, opportunity (minutes) available, etc..) as well as picking the right players.

The Bulls probably don't have the right mix or minutes to be a team that tries to acquire a bunch of extra fringe talent and have it mature based on where they are at right now given that htey already have 15 guaranteed contracts on the roster without bringing in a 2nd rounder this year.

[TheSuzerain]

Which is why you need to churn the bottom of the roster and not keep Cameron Payne around for years.

In the end, it sounds like you just want the front office to guess better. Get picks and get the right guys, give up on the busts early, and develop the guys that go on to be good enough runway to do it. I agree that this is absolutely important to just make better decisions.

Systemically trying to acquire more second rounders is not a strategy that I think is effective in a vacuum (ie, something you should always do). It can be effective, but it requires you to have the right environment (vets to help, coaching staff focused on it, opportunity (minutes) available, etc..) as well as picking the right players.

The Bulls probably don't have the right mix or minutes to be a team that tries to acquire a bunch of extra fringe talent and have it mature based on where they are at right now given that htey already have 15 guaranteed contracts on the roster without bringing in a 2nd rounder this year.

lol gathering extra draft picks is absolutely something you should do when you are rebuilding through the draft. Period.

But we didn't do that. Which is one reason why our rebuild utterly failed.

[TheStig]

THT got in shape and looked pretty nasty. Will be interesting if he breaks out.

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

I think they got their prospect in the 2nd round. Marko is an interesting player. But otherwise there just aren't a lot of guys who become rotation players from the 2nd round.

[TheSuzerain]

THT got in shape and looked pretty nasty. Will be interesting if he breaks out.

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

I think they got their prospect in the 2nd round. Marko is an interesting player. But otherwise there just aren't a lot of guys who become rotation players from the 2nd round.

There are though. In every draft. With the occasional all star mixed in.

Look at Denver last year. Barton, Milsap, Monte Morris, and Jokic. All 2nd rounders.

The value of 2nd rounders is in the uncertainty (the off chance that you landed a diamond in the rough) and in the team control (using a 2nd rounder on a player basically gives your rights over them, and you can basically control them for 5-7 years).

What people like Doug don't seem to understand is that using up a roster spot is a legitimate cost, so even if someone has a guaranteed contract, you may be better off cutting bait (e.g. Felcio, Arci, Kornet) to free up that roster spot. Further, a whole lot of an asset's value is tied up in that player control thing. If a player is 1-2 years out from unrestricted free agency status, they are not much of an asset to you unless you have win-now aspirations or can flip them in a trade for value. 2nd rounders are an easy way to replace non-assets like Arci or Kornet with something that actually has the potential of being valuable.

[Chi town]

THT got in shape and looked pretty nasty. Will be interesting if he breaks out.

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

Loved THT at ISU. Believe he will come back to earth but he will play for the Lakers as those vets will be taking games to rest.

We need a wing playmaker like him so badly. Pat will be a good one but I don't think he will be a passing playmaker.

[Pax for Prez]

THT got in shape and looked pretty nasty. Will be interesting if he breaks out.

Absolute shame that we didn't grab extra 2nd round picks during our rebuild to take swings on guys like that and Bol Bol. Even the dumb front offices know to do that. Yet GarPax didn't.

I think they got their prospect in the 2nd round. Marko is an interesting player. But otherwise there just aren't a lot of guys who become rotation players from the 2nd round.

There are though. In every draft. With the occasional all star mixed in.

Look at Denver last year. Barton, Milsap, Monte Morris, and Jokic. All 2nd rounders.

The value of 2nd rounders is in the uncertainty (the off chance that you landed a diamond in the rough) and in the team control (using a 2nd rounder on a player basically gives your rights over them, and you can basically control them for 5-7 years).

What people like Doug don't seem to understand is that using up a roster spot is a legitimate cost, so even if someone has a guaranteed contract, you may be better off cutting bait (e.g. Felcio, Arci, Kornet) to free up that roster spot. Further, a whole lot of an asset's value is tied up in that player control thing. If a player is 1-2 years out from unrestricted free agency status, they are not much of an asset to you unless you have win-now aspirations or can flip them in a trade for value. 2nd rounders are an easy way to replace non-assets like Arci or Kornet with something that actually has the potential of being valuable.

Don't forget Bol Bol

[sco]

We need a real PG?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lamelo-ball-pass-enough-hornets-185053615.html