Trade Talk (Part Five)

[Battletrigger]

Is confirmed that this is a Timberwolves board.

The level of loser mentalities has reach a new other level with the last few posts lol. But tbh the last one is the funniest i ever seen in a while.

And1's for everybody!

Man, lately you are so disrespectful and a real crybaby.

I know... Sorry for not following the trend on this board.

I will improve from now on.

I totally agree with you that the team looks like a mess and it's too used to lost.

I think that Saunders is too buddy with the players and that Kat is not a superstar that can take the team on his shoulders, only is the star in a bad team where put nice stats while accumulate loses and enjoying the way.

[shrink]

Right now, the Wolves board is as divided as I can remember. We have optimists, that don’t want to hear negative things going into a new season, and pessimist, who didn’t see the improvement they hoped for this off-season and are tired of years of losing.

The board needs both.

[shrink]

Since I am often labeled a pessimist for my views on Russell, let me tell you something that makes me very optimistic about the Wolves future.

Karl-Anthony Towns

Step One for building a winning franchise (and arguably the most difficult step), is finding a star. Was MIL anything until they found Giannis? Towns has the chance to be one of the five best players in the NBA in two years. At this point, we are so used to his offense that we take it for granted. He is the best shooting big man, not just in the NBA, but arguable in the HISTORY of the NBA. He is a matchup nightmare for every single team in the league, and no one yet has been able to stop him. Since his offense is so reliable, we focus on his defense at center, which has not been good. However, he only needs to be an AVERAGE center defensively to be a top 5 player. Unlike many stars with weaknesses, Towns has nothing that limits him to fix it. He has the size, the strength, and the speed to be better defensively. He simply needs to turn that drive and focus he used to develop his offensive game to historic levels, and focus it on improving defensively. He can do this.

When you feel bad about being a Wolves fan, take a look around the league. Getting the star is Step One. Do you want to be a DET, with no star? Do you want to be a SAC or CLE, and HOPE your young player can be a star? Do you want to be one of the many teams who are building around a pseudo-star, like we were with Kevin Love?

We are lucky. We cleared the first hurdle - the highest hurdle. Next comes building that team around him, and finishing the race to becoming a contender.

[Dewey]

Since I am often labeled a pessimist for my views on Russell, let me tell you something that makes me very optimistic about the Wolves future.

Karl-Anthony Towns

Step One for building a winning franchise (and arguably the most difficult step), is finding a star. Was MIL anything until they found Giannis? Towns has the chance to be one of the five best players in the NBA in two years. At this point, we are so used to his offense that we take it for granted. He is the best shooting big man, not just in the NBA, but arguable in the HISTORY of the NBA. He is a matchup nightmare for every single team in the league, and no one yet has been able to stop him. Since his offense is so reliable, we focus on his defense at center, which has not been good. However, he only needs to be an AVERAGE center defensively to be a top 5 player. Unlike many stars with weaknesses, Towns has nothing that limits him to fix it. He has the size, the strength, and the speed to be better defensively. He simply needs to turn that drive and focus he used to develop his offensive game to historic levels, and focus it on improving defensively. He can do this.

When you feel bad about being a Wolves fan, take a look around the league. Getting the star is Step One. Do you want to be a DET, with no star? Do you want to be a SAC or CLE, and HOPE your young player can be a star? Do you want to be one of the many teams who are building around a pseudo-star, like we were with Kevin Love?

We are lucky. We cleared the first hurdle - the highest hurdle. Next comes building that team around him, and finishing the race to becoming a contender.

He is statistically terrific in some aspects, but my star player will be a team leader ... and KAT is not a leader. I'm fine with him as a #2 guy, but unless something changes, I don't expect any star players to beg to come play with KAT.

[shrink]

He is statistically terrific in some aspects, but my star player will be a team leader ... and KAT is not a leader. I'm fine with him as a #2 guy, but unless something changes, I don't expect any star players to beg to come play with KAT.

I’ve actually given both points a great deal of thought.

First, does your best player need to be your “team leader?” We should know that’s not true, from personal experience.

Brace yourself everyone. I don’t believe Kevin Garnett was a team leader, for most of his tenure here. It’s true that when he started, he was 4-10 years younger than everyone else, and that may have played a part. However, even as he got older, he was never comfortable in that role, and I never saw him happier than when we added Cassell and Sprewell, and he could be just one of the “three amigos.” He accepted that responsibility later in his career, since being the best player gives you leadership credibility, but he did not lead the Wolves, motivate others - he was just their best player.

As for the second point, yeah, Towns needs to improve, or it’s a moot point. NBA players prioritize three things.

1. Getting paid
2. Winning
3. Scoring

Taylor will pay for a winner, but the team needs to at least be an up and comer to get free agents, and overcome the negative effect of the winters in Minneapolis. You don’t need to be a championship winner to draw top free agents - they have egos that make them believe they can improve a team - but you need to be part of the way there, with assets to improve.

But let’s look at scoring and specifically with Towns. Is there a better partner in the NBA right now for Anthony Davis than KAT? He pulls a big man out from under the basket to prevent double teams, and he plays center, to allow AD to play his preferred PF position. What about all those young stars who can beat their man off the dribble, but their biggest issue is having a big center waiting for them under the basket?

Now, no one is going to beg to play with Towns until we start winning. But once that happens, I think Towns would be a great draw for free agents. And guys at that level aren’t going to care about Towns leading the team.

[Jedzz]

Hurry up with the Simmons trade please. Stop haggling for every penny and just get it done.

[shrink]

Getting back on topic, a deal was proposed on the trade board that I’d like people’s input on. You read how valuable I think Rubio will be, but this feels like a very healthy return:

Minnesota trades: Ricky Rubio

Minnesota receives: Zach Collins, Mo Bamba

The T-Wolves get a guy in Zach Collins who has periodically played fantastic defense with great length, anticipation and agility. He's also showed indications of being a good outside shooter. He could be a perfect PF compliment to Towns.

Mo Bamba has massive potential but whether the T-Wolves, or anyone else, will be able to realize it is the $10 million question. It's a low risk, high reward for the T-pups

The full trade is here

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=87130143#p87115941

[Domejandro]

Getting back on topic, a deal was proposed on the trade board that I’d like people’s input on. You read how valuable I think Rubio will be, but this feels like a very healthy return:

Minnesota trades: Ricky Rubio

Minnesota receives: Zach Collins, Mo Bamba

The T-Wolves get a guy in Zach Collins who has periodically played fantastic defense with great length, anticipation and agility. He's also showed indications of being a good outside shooter. He could be a perfect PF compliment to Towns.

Mo Bamba has massive potential but whether the T-Wolves, or anyone else, will be able to realize it is the $10 million question. It's a low risk, high reward for the T-pups

The full trade is here

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=87130143#p87115941

Issue is that Portland, for a variety of reasons, would never agree to that trade. In a vacuum, it is definitely fair value for Ricky Rubio, though.

[Jedzz]

Getting back on topic, a deal was proposed on the trade board that I’d like people’s input on. You read how valuable I think Rubio will be, but this feels like a very healthy return:

Minnesota trades: Ricky Rubio

Minnesota receives: Zach Collins, Mo Bamba

The T-Wolves get a guy in Zach Collins who has periodically played fantastic defense with great length, anticipation and agility. He's also showed indications of being a good outside shooter. He could be a perfect PF compliment to Towns.

Mo Bamba has massive potential but whether the T-Wolves, or anyone else, will be able to realize it is the $10 million question. It's a low risk, high reward for the T-pups

The full trade is here

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=87130143#p87115941

Issue is that Portland, for a variety of reasons, would never agree to that trade. In a vacuum, it is definitely fair value for Ricky Rubio, though.

A. If the condition is the Wolves are losing bad and decide to go development and shed vets, then why are we trading Rubio to sign Collins who will need to be paid after the season? He's a 32% 3FG shooter, meager TS, Does very little with under 20 minutes, and not a whole lot more with 26 minutes. 7pts? Hasn't played good defense since rookie season. He's now a walking injury, well, no longer walking. He can't even play until some time projected in late January or February at best.

B. I like it for helping Portland, and they get to move Covington back to SF which is huge, by adding Gordon at PF. Plus they get to unload a former #10 possible draft bust like they would have done in the coming summer anyway.

C. I notice how they claim 30 games without Lillard is enough of a sample size to claim CJ can be a regular allstar on his own. Why does Orlando do this trade if they wanted two FRPs and a player previously?

D. Rosas shed every tall big we had or that he brought in last year. What's he going to do with Mo Bamba? Nothing is the answer. He costs 6MM now and 7.5 next season. So you would trade Rubio for the opportunity to sign amd overpay someone's 2017 draft bust in the summer, and a center your GM wants nothing to do with. Basically you just wasted Johnson's 16MM contract value that was supposed to be used to help this team now or be maintained for over the cap moves. Plus, Rosas committs the high crime of trading away Rubio for a second time, instantly becoming a villain to many.

I think Zach Collins is maybe a draft bust, former #10 overall by injury and play. The chances of him not playing more than 15 games here this year is high.
Current prognosis:

Trail Blazers general manager Neil Olshey said Monday that Collins (ankle) likely won't be ready for game action until the second or third week of January, Aaron J. Fentress of The Oregonian reports.

A high risk of reinjury

fractured his medial malleolus, which is the inside of his shin bone (i.e., tibia) at his ankle. When looking at your own ankle, it’s that rounded bony protrusion that sticks out a little bit above your shoe. ...weight bearing

Previous 2019-20 injury: zach collins fighting injury prone label

It was on Oct. 27, just three games into the 2019-20 season, when Collins dislocated his shoulder while going up for a rebound against the Dallas Mavericks. A week later, he underwent shoulder surgery and his chances of returning before the season ended were in question.

He's also previously had a broken foot and broken finger.

Glass Joe

Spoiler:

This is one of those examples of a trade that helps one playoff team take advantage of two struggling teams.

[Jedzz]

We will see, he would have to develop quite a bit, especially his jump shot--but by all means I hope he does. It's possible that he could get some of Culver's minutes (or Okogie's) if one of them doesn't take a step forward this year. His most direct path to immediate playing time is definitively Davis's minutes at the backup 5 and based on his game now and the Wolves system that's also the most natural position for him given his skillset.

As Layman said, there's no real difference between the 3/4 in this system aka "wing" spots. Vanderbilt is much more of a big than a wing.

As far as I know Vanderbilt has never played Center in his life. Maybe in HS.

Again, I might not even play Vanderbilt at the C if I was creating a roster...but we root for a team that has a GM and Coach that from the moment they started have clearly communicated the way that they want to construct a roster and what types of players and player skillsets fit in different positions on the roster.

Vanderbilt is 6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan, which means Ryan would tell you he has an effective height of roughly 6'11. In addition, he's extremely athletic. I think that's pretty much the exact kind of "big" the Wolves want in this system. And again, obviously you'd rather have someone who is even more traditionally center sized and just as athletic and mobile as Vanderbilt--but that doesn't often happen.

How about 6'11 with a 7'3 wingspan and athletic, mobile, passes, shoots, blocks? This is the way.



Patton appears to possibly be headed for the Wisconsin Herd again. Go figure, he's Giannis' almost exact measurements.

[SO_MONEY]

Getting back on topic, a deal was proposed on the trade board that I’d like people’s input on. You read how valuable I think Rubio will be, but this feels like a very healthy return:

Minnesota trades: Ricky Rubio

Minnesota receives: Zach Collins, Mo Bamba

The T-Wolves get a guy in Zach Collins who has periodically played fantastic defense with great length, anticipation and agility. He's also showed indications of being a good outside shooter. He could be a perfect PF compliment to Towns.

Mo Bamba has massive potential but whether the T-Wolves, or anyone else, will be able to realize it is the $10 million question. It's a low risk, high reward for the T-pups

The full trade is here

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=87130143#p87115941

Who do you cut?

[Jedzz]

Getting back on topic, a deal was proposed on the trade board that I’d like people’s input on. You read how valuable I think Rubio will be, but this feels like a very healthy return:

Minnesota trades: Ricky Rubio

Minnesota receives: Zach Collins, Mo Bamba

The T-Wolves get a guy in Zach Collins who has periodically played fantastic defense with great length, anticipation and agility. He's also showed indications of being a good outside shooter. He could be a perfect PF compliment to Towns.

Mo Bamba has massive potential but whether the T-Wolves, or anyone else, will be able to realize it is the $10 million question. It's a low risk, high reward for the T-pups

The full trade is here

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=87130143#p87115941

Who do you cut?

It would be the GM getting cut after a move like this soon plays out.

[minimus]

Patton appears to possibly be headed for the Wisconsin Herd again. Go figure, he's Giannis' almost exact measurements.

I still dont understand why he is not in NBA roster... None of his injuries should affect his athleticism...

[Jedzz]

Patton appears to possibly be headed for the Wisconsin Herd again. Go figure, he's Giannis' almost exact measurements.

I still dont understand why he is not in NBA roster... None of his injuries should affect his athleticism...

Pistons were going to give him a shot this fall to compete for a role with one other player this fall and supposedly he broke a finger at the time and that competition never happened.

Given what he's shown in the Gleague and his prior draft history it amazes me a team hasn't given him a bench role. A team needing some size plus a whole load of other skills and athleticsm in a big should be all over this. I believe we are one of those teams. But maybe he's not spanish, argentinian, or whatever so maybe they aren't looking his direction. I can tell they want Hernangomez to work out, be it as starter or steady depth minutes. They've brought in some guys during camps, sure. But I think if they would bring in someone like Patton, his skillset/athleticism/defense and size might push a number of players right out of minutes. I see him as a good possible fit because of Towns need to say he's a 5. Patton could play the 4 and 5 well, and share defensive 5 responsibilities. This is no old skool big. You just can't give him any sserious money until he proves he can stay healthy to play for NBA teams.

[IceManBK1]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

wonder if we can join the sweepstakes and offer our whole farm plus edwards for Simmons. Need edwards to raise his trade stock now.

[Jedzz]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

wonder if we can join the sweepstakes and offer our whole farm plus edwards for Simmons. Need edwards to raise his trade stock now.

You jump in as the third team. Edwards and whatever to Houston, maybe Culver plus... Simmons comes here, Harden goes to Philly. Philly and MN tagteam to create enough return for Houston.

[IceManBK1]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

wonder if we can join the sweepstakes and offer our whole farm plus edwards for Simmons. Need edwards to raise his trade stock now.

You jump in as the third team. Edwards and whatever to Houston, maybe Culver plus... Simmons comes here, Harden goes to Philly. Philly and MN tagteam to create enough return for Houston.

maybe that's why Rosas didn't make any move for a PF during the offseason. he's lurking to monitor the harden situation. now Rosas is gonna sneak in and grab Simmons in the 3 team trade

[Jedzz]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

wonder if we can join the sweepstakes and offer our whole farm plus edwards for Simmons. Need edwards to raise his trade stock now.

You jump in as the third team. Edwards and whatever to Houston, maybe Culver plus... Simmons comes here, Harden goes to Philly. Philly and MN tagteam to create enough return for Houston.

maybe that's why Rosas didn't make any move for a PF during the offseason. he's lurking to monitor the harden situation. now Rosas is gonna sneak in and grab Simmons in the 3 team trade

Well, they wanted to trade the first. Just because they were forced to draft someone doesn't mean he's done trying to trade it. Your post about him raising his stock now I think is on point, and why they've been allowing him to lead possessions even though we have Rubio/Dlo here. Dlo "injured" tonight is convenient for Edwards to take on more.

I'll take Simmons here, no problem. As long as they don't have to send out the best shooters. Because the team will need shooters if Simmons is coming here.

[jayu70]

Looks like Reddish has not been getting much run through two preseason games. Perhaps a player to keep an eye on. Not sure what a Collins and Reddish trade would look like, but sure am warming up to the thought.

I'd be very interested in either of these guys if they become available....been kind of paying close attention to the extension talks for JC...another guy that might not provide as much D as we'd hope....but would give us significant size & rebounding @ the pf. JC & Reddish for Culver, Okogie, & Bolmaro or a future FRP...enough?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Regarding Reddish:
He played 23 minutes in preseason game 1 (which was 1 minute under the 24 minute limit that coach set). He missed game 2 with an injured ankle.

[KGdaBom]

Looks like Reddish has not been getting much run through two preseason games. Perhaps a player to keep an eye on. Not sure what a Collins and Reddish trade would look like, but sure am warming up to the thought.

I'd be very interested in either of these guys if they become available....been kind of paying close attention to the extension talks for JC...another guy that might not provide as much D as we'd hope....but would give us significant size & rebounding @ the pf. JC & Reddish for Culver, Okogie, & Bolmaro or a future FRP...enough?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Regarding Reddish:
He played 23 minutes in preseason game 1 (which was 1 minute under the 24 minute limit that coach set). He missed game 2 with an injured ankle.

Thanks for the info. Rumor has it that the Wolves could have got the 6th pick from you for 17 and Culver. I really like Okongwu, but it would have meant no Culver, Rubio, Bolmaro, or Jaden McDaniel.