Giannis SIGNS

[Mags FTW]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

[coolhandluke121]

Disagree on Schroder. The difference between Holiday and Schroder is way more than (in your first example) 2 pick swaps that will likely never happen, a late 20s first and that '27 pick (which is the only one I'm worried about).

And when I say that I'm mostly concerned about the immediate future. Our window is now. Schroder isn't helping us win anything now.

I think you're grossly overstating how far the team is from winning a title if you don't think expiring contracts + picks for Schroder helps them at all. And the picks (especially the ones after Giannis could opt out) would make a huge difference in making a competitive offer while trading Khris for Harden.

This is really neither here nor there, but I am imagining what you'd say if we traded for James Harden and he showed up for his first game looking like he ate James Harden.

There are two guys in the NBA who are allowed to be fat: Harden and Luka. They play the exact same either way and it's borderline MVP caliber, at least in any season where there's no clear dominant regular season player like Giannis or prime Lebron.

[coolhandluke121]

So you really are saying that it would have been ok to have a lesser team with fewer assets spent because Giannis would have been happy and re-signed. Interesting. Again that's a carbon copy of what transpired in Cleveland leading up to Lebron bailing on them after all of his preferred acquisitions left them with a garbage roster around him.

LOL, the whole point of keeping the picks is to make competitive offers for better players like Harden so no, I'm not advocating having a worse roster just for the sake of keeping assets forever. I'm advocating getting a better roster by getting fair value for assets, which I firmly believe they would have been able to do eventually.

[har13]

A couple thoughts:

1. Schroder is also on the record as saying Milwaukee is his favorite city in the NBA, so he almost certainly would have been happy to come here and sign an extension.

2. Even if we had swung a trade for Schroder instead of Holiday, I highly highly doubt we would have been serious players for Harden (or Steph if people actually think Steph might want out of Golden State). Especially considering that timing wise, Giannis likely would have signed the supermax before a Harden/Steph trade occurred, thus depreciating the value of the picks we would have available anyways.

3. I'm still pretty iffy on the Jrue trade because I think pretty much any rational person would agree it was an overpay. At the same time though, getting Jrue, who is probably a top 30 player in the NBA is just far more impactful than getting Schroder, who is arguably a starting caliber PG but might not be.

At that time we didnt know that Harden wanted a trade but we all have opinions about what we needed,

I have posted so its there that i believe that Bucks needed an upgrade on both guard positions and 3 bench players, one who can shoot, one who can score and a big, i now believe that they did wanted that too.

Schroder was who i believed they will bring, not the best but realistic upgrade for less than Bledsoe contract too, also we needed one first round pick, i didn't even know we can offer so many of our picks for trades.

Next was Bogdan ( i wanted Hardaway to be honest, he had a player option so maybe a trade could happen), a player that fits with us and our team well cause he can shoot and can create for him and others, not great fit defensively with Schroeder to be honest tho.

What i believe happened was that after LA trade for Schroeder only Holiday could be a big upgrade over Bledsoe, i swear i wanted to post that we are going to get Holiday 100% just after Paul signed for the Sans, he was the only one out there, didn't expect us to give so much but i want to believe that they thought that also Bogdan was 100% coming for just Donte and Ersan /DJ so **** it and sign Holiday , the goal was there even with an overpay we have done the upgrade on both our guards positions.
Bogdan trade then didnt happen, i bet they tried for something else but they already offered all our picks so...

For me they did wrong not waiting for Holiday, i saw that Boston offered them 3 first round picks but from 2020 draft, 2 later first round picks from us is better than what Boston offered them cause i believe NO wants to use the picks for a future trade to help Zion, we could keep and trade if we wanted this year draft pick and at least one draft pick swap.

Also re: Schroder, he would have been a downgrade on paper compared to Bledsoe. Obviously we know Bledsoe has had serious issues in the playoffs at this point, so it's not as simple as looking at it on paper. But if we had traded Bledsoe for Schroder, you're basically crossing your fingers and hoping that Schroder continues to show improvement and becomes an upgrade at the PG spot (and to be fair, he's still young and has never played with a player of Giannis' caliber before so you could argue that kind of improvement would be expected). Jrue is a clear upgrade over Bledsoe, no improvement needed on his part.

Guys... he is an upgrade over Bledsoe...especially the playoff Bledsoe, we wanted Schroder, LA and from what i know few others maybe wanted him, and they gave up a first round pick for him, who wanted Bledsoe???? What they offered us for him? Completely nothing, don't trust me when i say he is an upgrade trust the GMs of this world.

[ABucksFan]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

Lmao, man. I didn't go over to the TOR board at all during this whole thing. Some gems over there

[Ron Swanson]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

Absolute body-bagging of Houston and their culture/enabling of Harden's behavior. If this is a guy that you want in your locker room next to Giannis, then more power to you. Even if we have the assets to go after him (we don't), I'd much rather use them to go after a guy like Beal, Kemba, etc. At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

[All The Bucks]

So you really are saying that it would have been ok to have a lesser team with fewer assets spent because Giannis would have been happy and re-signed. Interesting. Again that's a carbon copy of what transpired in Cleveland leading up to Lebron bailing on them after all of his preferred acquisitions left them with a garbage roster around him.

LOL, the whole point of keeping the picks is to make competitive offers for better players like Harden so no, I'm not advocating having a worse roster just for the sake of keeping assets forever. I'm advocating getting a better roster by getting fair value for assets, which I firmly believe they would have been able to do eventually.

And once again completely ignoring the narrow window they had to get the Supermax signed. You can't have it both ways. So let's say they go the route you're suggesting. They still have to give up something to get a Schroeder or an Oladipo. Sure, not as much as it took to get Jrue, I'll give you that. In the meantime here's the corner you've painted yourself into - someone like Boston lands Jrue instead. Giannis still signs because you got one or two of his guys, but now you have a lesser team and your competitors got better. Do you immediately turn around and trade the newly acquired Schroeder and/or Oladipo when the team doesn't cut it and then piss off Giannis for shedding his guys? Your scenario doesn't add up.

They had just over 3 weeks to do something. And rather than get the guys Giannis wanted and commit themselves to a pretty great extent to those players, they got the talent they knew was more impactful and he signed.

[MikeIsGood]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

Absolute body-bagging of Houston and their culture/enabling of Harden's behavior. If this is a guy that you want in your locker room next to Giannis, then more power to you. Even if we have the assets to go after him (we don't), I'd much rather use them to go after a guy like Beal, Kemba, etc. At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

Yeah I didn't know I could hate Harden more than I already did until I read this article.

[coolhandluke121]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

Absolute body-bagging of Houston and their culture/enabling of Harden's behavior. If this is a guy that you want in your locker room next to Giannis, then more power to you. Even if we have the assets to go after him (we don't), I'd much rather use them to go after a guy like Beal, Kemba, etc. At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

Fair enough. I only use Harden as evidence that other good players would have become available if they had kept some more rounds in their chamber. I don't even actually want him; just want a little more for all those picks and pick swaps than Jrue in the last year of his deal.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

if we move lopez i want to be on record stating i have absolutely zero concern about finding a replacement.

thats if we go away from this defense everybody has figured out. bringing anybody else to play the brook role, in a defense everybody is already annilating, wouldnt be a good idea. but besides that im not worried about finding another center to replace his offense assuming we bring in backcourt help in his place

[Bucksfan28]

At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

Just don't think we're at that point yet. Harden could be elite for another 3-4 years (if he's committed) and is about as perfect of a fit offensively next to Giannis as you could have.

Agree we don't have the assets though.

[coolhandluke121]

So you really are saying that it would have been ok to have a lesser team with fewer assets spent because Giannis would have been happy and re-signed. Interesting. Again that's a carbon copy of what transpired in Cleveland leading up to Lebron bailing on them after all of his preferred acquisitions left them with a garbage roster around him.

LOL, the whole point of keeping the picks is to make competitive offers for better players like Harden so no, I'm not advocating having a worse roster just for the sake of keeping assets forever. I'm advocating getting a better roster by getting fair value for assets, which I firmly believe they would have been able to do eventually.

And once again completely ignoring the narrow window they had to get the Supermax signed. You can't have it both ways. So let's say they go the route you're suggesting. They still have to give up something to get a Schroeder or an Oladipo. Sure, not as much as it took to get Jrue, I'll give you that. In the meantime here's the corner you've painted yourself into - someone like Boston lands Jrue instead. Giannis still signs because you got one or two of his guys, but now you have a lesser team and your competitors got better. Do you immediately turn around and trade the newly acquired Schroeder and/or Oladipo when the team doesn't cut it and then piss off Giannis for shedding his guys? Your scenario doesn't add up.

I am not ignoring the 12/21 deadline at all. Are you even reading my posts? THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT IT APPEARS THE BUCKS COULD HAVE CONVINCED GIANNIS TO EXTEND WITHOUT SACRIFICING SO MUCH. Say you think Jrue was worth it if you want, but stop twisting every single point of my argument.

And why the hell couldn't you trade Schroder or Bogdan with picks eventually? I'm sure Giannis wanted Bledsoe and Hill to stay when they first re-signed too, but things change. Just keep making smart, good value moves and things work out.

Pretty big assumption to say "the team doesn't cut it" after they had the best record two seasons in a row and upgrade Bledose with Schroder, too. You're living in an alternate reality if your whole premise is based on the assumption that they had to give up whatever it takes to get Jrue friggin' Holiday (whom I do really like, but still) when they did in order to a) be a contender and b) convince Giannis to extend. That's so specific and lacking in nuance that it's almost laughable.

[SirChurros]

If you think the Bucks would ever make a move for a guy like Harden with the stuff coming out about Giannis recruiting guys like Schroder and Bogdan, you're .

This is Nba man, you cant bring who ever you like, actually both of them were the only of few realistic targets at the time, who you wanted? It was those 2, paul, Holiday, Galinari, Oladipo and i dont know if anyone else... I laugh when guys saying what you just said, again who you wanted? A realistic target, maybe Paul? With Paul you cant sign anyone else, so whom?

Now we couldn't know that Harden wanted out of Houston so i can't blame them but i can see easily Houston accepting a Khris and 2 first round picks (not even 3) and swaps for Harden.

The point is that Giannis is not a good GM, which is proven by the fact that the guy he wanted most was Bogdan. I know you want to point out that that's because it's the most realistic, but come on. If Giannis said he wanted Harden, or anyone else, the Bucks would have found a way to get it done.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

i need to know what was going on with hill in the lockerroom and behind the scenes to know what we should have done with him. bledsoe and picks going out was a no brainer. love to see the options that were on the table. schroder doesnt do it for me tho

[ABucksFan]

Yeah, I don't want a Top 5 guy and perennial MVP on my team either. It would suck to have 2 top 5 guys on the same team.

[dedned]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

I and 1ed thru 2 pages. Can't be bothered to read any more of that ****.

[coolhandluke121]

i need to know what was going on with hill in the lockerroom and behind the scenes to know what we should have done with him. bledsoe and picks going out was a no brainer. love to see the options that were on the table. schroder doesnt do it for me tho

Someone posted that the Bucks tried really hard to keep Hill in the Jrue deal. That's not conclusive but it might suggest that it wasn't as serious as feared. I think Hill has one more good year for sure. He's gonna wanna convince someone to guarantee the last year of his deal. I think Giannis respected him even if he was a little annoyed that he played so poorly in the bubble.

[SirChurros]

At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

Just don't think we're at that point yet. Harden could be elite for another 3-4 years (if he's committed) and is about as perfect of a fit offensively next to Giannis as you could have.

Agree we don't have the assets though.

Agreed. I also don't think the offcourt stuff has ever carried over onto the floor. He seems pretty committed to the game and has never obviously dogged it, from what I've seen.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

Absolute body-bagging of Houston and their culture/enabling of Harden's behavior. If this is a guy that you want in your locker room next to Giannis, then more power to you. Even if we have the assets to go after him (we don't), I'd much rather use them to go after a guy like Beal, Kemba, etc. At some point the mileage and character stuff does outweigh the talent.

i agree with you but theres this 1% chance im wrong about harden like i was with jimmy butler. we should have targeted butler in retrospect. alot of what disgusts people about harden is the same stuff jimmy/lebron have following them around. that doesnt mean in the right settings they couidnt be amazing for you obviously

[coolhandluke121]

if we move lopez i want to be on record stating i have absolutely zero concern about finding a replacement.

thats if we go away from this defense everybody has figured out. bringing anybody else to play the brook role, in a defense everybody is already annilating, wouldnt be a good idea. but besides that im not worried about finding another center to replace his offense assuming we bring in backcourt help in his place

As long as they don't ask Giannis to play a lot of center. I'm absolutely convinced he just doesn't want to or they would have done it a long time ago. I know it should work well in theory but I'm fine with letting him stay at PF where he can roam more.

And even if they do keep the same defense, how much worse off would they have been with RoLo as the token starting center at half the price? He had similar rim protection stats last year and actually hit a higher percentage of his 3's.