Around the NBA Discussion (20/21)

Apz · Post #61 » by **Apz** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:41 am

Gobert is the typical center u have to bench in the playoffs. If we want a classic center just get drummond for like a third of ehat gobert will want

juanc · Post #62 » by **juanc** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:55 am

Apz wrote:Gobert is the typical center u have to bench in the playoffs. If we want a classic center just get drummond for like a third of ehat gobert will want

???
Man you realy don't like Rudy do you? He played 39 minutes per game vs the Nuggets. Rudy is a defensive game changer, and the PnR with Luka would be just nasty. The only problem here is the fit with KP.

Oh and Drummond gives you 1/10 of what Rudy gives.

Pofukauskas · Post #63 » by **Pofukauskas** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:03 am

Apz wrote:Gobert is the typical center u have to bench in the playoffs. If we want a classic center just get drummond for like a third of ehat gobert will want

You can’t compare a scrub like Drummond to DPOY Gobert. Also benching Gobert in the playoffs is a myth. He had +26 plus minus in the last playoffs. Here are some other Gobert stats:

1st in Real Plus Minus
4th in Box Plus Minus (behind KAT/Young/Middleton)
1st in RAPTOR
2nd in VORP (behind Bam)
1st in PIPM

Also if you know anything about Luka you would know he thrives playing alongside a classic center that sets good screens, is a lob threat, and plays great D.

Beal + Gobert is much MUCH better than Porzingis and MUCH more dependable health wise.

ejs78 · Post #64 » by **ejs78** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:41 pm

Living in Detroit I can tell you that you don't want Drummond on the Mavs

As far as Gobert, I don't love it but not opposed to it.

I get the big man ia dead argument but let's look at the west:

AD/Gasol/Harrell
Ibaka
Ayton
Holmes/Whiteside
Wiseman/Lonney
Cousins/Wood
Valanciunas
Adams
Aldridge/Poeltl
Jokic
Nurkic
Townes

Gobert would be useful vs alot of these centers especially in the playoffs. Teams like the Lakers, Blazers, Rockets, and Grizz could also be running 2 bigs out there which makes Gobert/KP easier to do.

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gottamakeit · Post #65 » by **gottamakeit** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Willie Cauley-Stein/ Boban Marjanovic / Kristaps Porzingis / Dwight Powell / and situationally Maxi Kleber can all play the 5.
No more centers for this team.

Apz · Post #66 » by **Apz** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:01 pm

So what do you think gobert gonna demand this summer? Without even having an idea I am sure it will be too much, speciallh if KP isnt moved. Imo no center that doesnt hit the 3 is worth more then 16m/year, and if u are 2nd center behind KP u dont pay more then the MLE. As said, dont know how much gobert is eligable to, but be sure he demands it all. And I have no intrest in paying our backup center(or any center that cant be a threat on the perimeter) 30m or something crazy like that.

I dont hate gobert, i just cant see him on mavs as long as kp is here and expect him to want to get payed a lot

JD45 · Post #67 » by **JD45** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:07 pm

Apz wrote:So what do you think gobert gonna demand this summer? Without even having an idea I am sure it will be too much, speciallh if KP isnt moved. Imo no center that doesnt hit the 3 is worth more then 16m/year, and if u are 2nd center behind KP u dont pay more then the MLE. As said, dont know how much gobert is eligable to, but be sure he demands it all. And I have no intrest in paying our backup center(or any center that cant be a threat on the perimeter) 30m or something crazy like that.

I dont hate gobert, i just cant see him on mavs as long as kp is here and expect him to want to get payed a lot

I think he wanted the SuperMax from Utah. Which doesn't seem at all possible. Looks like complete radio silence on his contract from both sides. And the Jazz added another veteran center (Favors), while using their first round pick on a center (Azubuike). To me that sounds like the Jazz are planning for Gobert to leave. In the depleted 2021 free agency class, I bet he will get he max. I doubt he extends now for less.

With Giannis out of play, I think the Mavs should do a little bit of shopping before the trade deadline. JRich and Green both seem like they fit, so THJ seems expendable now. If it could be done cheap, bringing on Gobert now and then seeing how he fits before extending him would be a good bet.

Apz · Post #68 » by **Apz** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:33 pm

I dont see THJ as expendable. We need people that can shoot and he doesnt suck at defense. And maybe Gobert gets the max, just hope it isnt Mavs that pay it. What is his supermax and max as FA?

Apz · Post #69 » by **Apz** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:45 pm

Ok, so his supermax is a five-year $247.3M contract. Not sure how much lower the FA max is, didnt find any number

gottamakeit · Post #70 » by **gottamakeit** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:07 pm

Apz wrote:I dont see THJ as expendable. We need people that can shoot and he doesnt suck at defense. And maybe Gobert gets the max, just hope it isnt Mavs that pay it. What is his supermax and max as FA?

With THJ, I think the front office will be looking to trade his expiring contract. Same with James Johnson.

If THJ is still here past the trade deadline, I'm ok to bring back THJ if there are no promising free agents to pursue. He has to come at a bargain for how grossly he's been overpaid on his last contract (i know that's not how it works and he'll seek out the best available offer). We'll still have the bird rights to sign him right? we could pursue a F/A and sign THJ

You should look at the advance stats for THJ, particularly his VORP. I don't think he'll be sorely missed if he leaves.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardati02.html

Apz · Post #71 » by **Apz** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:53 pm

What 2 players u think we can get fof them that is better and not expiring? And probably need to play their positions too for the team to fit? Cant really see any. Think both thj and jrich is ufa this summer but not 100

JJP · Post #72 » by **JJP** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:57 pm

Apz wrote:What 2 players u think we can get fof them that is better and not expiring? And probably need to play their positions too for the team to fit? Cant really see any. Think both thj and jrich is ufa this summer but not 100

I think this is right. When you really look at the top 50 players in the NBA right now (several lists are available with a search), almost none of them could realistically be involved in a Mavericks trade scenario. Maybe Bradley Beal, but that's it. Dallas doesn't have the player assets to go after a top player in a trade. Even with all the money they will have in Free Agency, there are fewer great players now because of extensions and player movement - than just a few weeks ago.

That's not necessarily a bad thing if Dallas has a good season. You still have a lot of room to upgrade. But the bottom line is that Dallas won't know what they really need until they are much further along in the season. At this point, Dallas isn't entirely sure what they have right now except on paper - so they need time to see where the strengths and weaknesses are. Every trade scenario now is silly guesswork at present.

What makes more sense was a recent tweet by Zach Collins, who said in essence, the Mavs might find a player as a RFA - someone like Kuzma or John Collins - simply because the Mavs could probably make an offer neither the LA nor Atlanta teams would want to match because of their financial situation.

BlueSan · Post #73 » by **BlueSan** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:54 am

The thing I don't get with the Jazz is why are they waiting why don't they trade him and get something? And if it is about the extension, then why not extend him?

BlueSan · Post #74 » by **BlueSan** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:55 am

gottamakeit wrote:
Apz wrote:I dont see THJ as expendable. We need people that can shoot and he doesnt suck at defense. And maybe Gobert gets the max, just hope it isnt Mavs that pay it. What is his supermax and max as FA?

With THJ, I think the front office will be looking to trade his expiring contract. Same with James Johnson.

If THJ is still here past the trade deadline, I'm ok to bring back THJ if there are no promising free agents to pursue. He has to come at a bargain for how grossly he's been overpaid on his last contract (i know that's not how it works and he'll seek out the best available offer). We'll still have the bird rights to sign him right? we could pursue a F/A and sign THJ

You should look at the advance stats for THJ, particularly his VORP. I don't think he'll be sorely missed if he leaves.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardati02.html

I am not so sure about THJ.

Because the Free agency market is not so great Keeping THJ on a 10-15 mils deal actually wouldn't be a bad idea IMO, well depends on how he performs

leolozon · Post #75 » by **leolozon** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:37 am

Well, I wanted the Mavs to sign Christian Wood this summer. I thought he fit the timeline perfectly, had a lot of upside, plus Giannis wasn't coming. I think the Mavs were dumb to not gamble on a player like him instead of gambling on the Giannis dream. I feel a little frustrated about it...

arkuo · Post #76 » by **arkuo** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:17 pm

Gobert is now off the table with a $205M extension with the Jazz.

Oladipo is now one of the few left. If the Mavs don't see the free agency market as attractive, might as well flip THJ and James Johnson within the season before the TDL. Otherwise that's another asset left unused.

gottamakeit · Post #77 » by **gottamakeit** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:16 pm

leolozon wrote:Well, I wanted the Mavs to sign Christian Wood this summer. I thought he fit the timeline perfectly, had a lot of upside, plus Giannis wasn't coming. I think the Mavs were dumb to not gamble on a player like him instead of gambling on the Giannis dream. I feel a little frustrated about it...

We didn't have the ability to match Houston's offer with just our MLE. He got a contract of 3 year 41 million.

leolozon · Post #78 » by **leolozon** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:20 pm

gottamakeit wrote:
leolozon wrote:Well, I wanted the Mavs to sign Christian Wood this summer. I thought he fit the timeline perfectly, had a lot of upside, plus Giannis wasn't coming. I think the Mavs were dumb to not gamble on a player like him instead of gambling on the Giannis dream. I feel a little frustrated about it...

We didn't have the ability to match Houston's offer with just our MLE. He got a contract of 3 year 41 million.

A sign and trade would have been possible, right? 3/41 millions was easy to beat and would have been a really good gamble I would think.

gottamakeit · Post #79 » by **gottamakeit** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:22 pm

leolozon wrote:
gottamakeit wrote:
leolozon wrote:Well, I wanted the Mavs to sign Christian Wood this summer. I thought he fit the timeline perfectly, had a lot of upside, plus Giannis wasn't coming. I think the Mavs were dumb to not gamble on a player like him instead of gambling on the Giannis dream. I feel a little frustrated about it...

We didn't have the ability to match Houston's offer with just our MLE. He got a contract of 3 year 41 million.

A sign and trade would have been possible, right? 3/41 millions was easy to beat and would have been a really good gamble I would think.

in a sign and trade, we'd be giving up an asset to make it worthwhile for Detroit to do it.

leolozon · Post #80 » by **leolozon** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:27 pm

gottamakeit wrote:
leolozon wrote:
gottamakeit wrote:
We didn't have the ability to match Houston's offer with just our MLE. He got a contract of 3 year 41 million.

A sign and trade would have been possible, right? 3/41 millions was easy to beat and would have been a really good gamble I would think.

in a sign and trade, we'd be giving up an asset to make it worthwhile for Detroit to do it.

I know, but not much considering they were losing him anyway for nothing. Wouldn't it have been something like 1 second rounder?

The Hornets gave up nothing for Hayward.
The Hawks gave up 1 2nd round pick for Gallinari.
The Pistons gave up cash considerations for Grant.