Knicks - Cavs PG

[Richard4444]

Any news if we already pick or we are going to pick Knox and Mitch team options?

In spite of his good game, Knox"s contract value could be negative by the end of the year. Thats 6M in cap space for next season.

I think if we don't pick Mitch"s team option, he will be a RFA by the end of the year and we will have control of his next contract. If we pick it, he will be a UFA in 2022 and could go to wherever he wants.

[hatnlvr]

Great seeing the kids getting minutes and playing well! The 4th quarter lineup that got us back into the game and finished it off is what the Knicks should be playing.

Meaningful minutes will help their development and help them grow together. Seeing Mitch in foul trouble the entire game and still being able to get out 32 minutes is going to teach him. He has to learn when to foul and when to be careful!

[Oscirus]

Any news if we already pick or we are going to pick Knox and Mitch team options?

In spite of his good game, Knox"s contract value could be negative by the end of the year. Thats 6M in cap space for next season.

I think if we don't pick Mitch"s team option, he will be a RFA by the end of the year and we will have control of his next contract. If we pick it, he will be a UFA in 2022 and could go to wherever he wants.

Knox is in the final year of being cheap so we'll def pick ip his and unless Im mistaken about mitch's contract, Im pretty sure he's signed until 22

[mpharris36]

The main reason we won is because Fr*nk didn't play

We also lost 3 quarters without Frank.

Sit Dennis smiff forever... give frank most of Elfrid minutes.. start Quickley.. Frank spot minutes at the backup point and 2

IQ and RJ make the most sense fit wise. We will see if Thibs has the cojones to start him or play him a majority of minutes.

If say you started IQ, Burks, RJ, Obi, Mitch you would actually have some semblance of NBA shooting and spacing.

[god shammgod]

We also lost 3 quarters without Frank.

Sit Dennis smiff forever... give frank most of Elfrid minutes.. start Quickley.. Frank spot minutes at the backup point and 2

IQ and RJ make the most sense fit wise. We will see if Thibs has the cojones to start him or play him a majority of minutes.

If say you started IQ, Burks, RJ, Obi, Mitch you would actually have some semblance of NBA shooting and spacing.

why get excited about the possibility something that will never happen ?

[3toheadmelo]

Okoro didn’t really impress me last night

[cgmw]

Dennis Smith Jr
8 points 4 assists 5 steals (2-4 from 3)

Kid is trash unfortunately

He looked terrible against slow fringe white boy PGs. If he can’t beat those guys north-south, who the hell can be beat?

This team improves dramatically if Rivers takes Elf’s minutes and Quickley takes DSJ’s.

[rajajackal]

DSJ cannot play point guard because he cannot dribble. how many times do we have to watch him struggle to get from half court to even the arc? what he showed in the second half last night is that we can utilize him as a hustle player and if he focuses on off-ball movement and cutting, we could probably make use of his offensive talents too. on-ball is 100% a no-go at this point

[DaGawd]

Okoro didn’t really impress me last night

He didn’t really have any plays called for him. But he connected on the opprotunities he did have

[thebuzzardman]

Video of the postgame chat with Alan Hahn

https://www.facebook.com/ahahnmsg/videos/1104864413281482/

At around the 29:10 mark, he answers my question: "Any locker room concerns if all the veterans get benched and all the young guys get the minutes?"

He was glad I brought it up and most of you will LOVE his answer so you should totally watch!

RJ should be the leader. But its tough for him to get reigns of the team with Payton and Randle playing footsie with each other. RJ plays so much more confident with those to clowns on the bench.

It might not even be confidence as much as it is that Randle and RJ sort of overlap skills - in the sense both need the ball, want to drive and score in the paint, playmake some, but since neither are very good shooters, playing them TOGETHER is a bit of an issue.

And it got covered, but I was thinking of it after I got off the board last night, but Payton sort of "needs the ball" as well. I know that's odd, since he's a PG, and he WILL try to set people up. But, not unlike most (but not ALL) "PGs", Payton tends to have the ball, in his hands, a decent amount. But with that, he's a BAD shooter, a terrible 3 point shooter, and yet for all that, is only average at finishing, passing and defense.
So he makes pairing RJ and Randle even worse. Even though, arguably, Randle is the "best player" on the team, and Payton is the best "PG"
Add Mitch\Noel being a non shooter and it's that much worse.

Even Obi would create some of these issues, since it's not proven he can really shoot well, yet.
Wait - not create the issues, but be a participant, where he would be impacted by Elf's non shooting

But even though Randle gets assists and isn't a Harrington (both) level black hole on offense, ball kind of sticks to him, while Obi holds it longer.

The Obi\Randle\Mitch conundrum is that all 3 of them are always looking to set the screen for the PG, where they aren't "dominating the ball" but are looking co-dominate the action, if you will.

Obi, I think, was used to being "Karl Malone" in college, where nearly all the P&R plays ran through him. Not like he couldn't do other things, other plays, play off the ball. But it's clearly this is his habit, how he WANTS to play.

I'd let him be the primary P&R guy, and Mitch will have to learn to adjust.
Or, hope there's a really reliable place where Obi makes jumpers, and let Mitch set the screens. Or run double screens\misdirects etc

[Richard4444]

Any news if we already pick or we are going to pick Knox and Mitch team options?

In spite of his good game, Knox"s contract value could be negative by the end of the year. Thats 6M in cap space for next season.

I think if we don't pick Mitch"s team option, he will be a RFA by the end of the year and we will have control of his next contract. If we pick it, he will be a UFA in 2022 and could go to wherever he wants.

Knox is in the final year of being cheap so we'll def pick ip his and unless Im mistaken about mitch's contract, Im pretty sure he's signed until 22

Despite being a rookie scale contract, his contract is not cheap. Its 6M/y for next season.

I cant see a so big improvement this season in Knox game"s to make him deserve a 10M+/y extension.

[cgmw]

Sit Dennis smiff forever... give frank most of Elfrid minutes.. start Quickley.. Frank spot minutes at the backup point and 2

IQ and RJ make the most sense fit wise. We will see if Thibs has the cojones to start him or play him a majority of minutes.

If say you started IQ, Burks, RJ, Obi, Mitch you would actually have some semblance of NBA shooting and spacing.

why get excited about the possibility something that will never happen ?

IQ starting won’t happen yet but Thibs will look at replacing Elf with Rivers. DSJ getting benched is only a matter of time. His performance is so disruptive to success that even the Knicks can’t ignore it.

Start: Mitch, Randle, Burks, RJ, Rivers
Finish: Mitch, Obi, RJ, Quickley + Frank or Knox

[thebuzzardman]

Yeah its pretty clear if you're going to start RJ, Julius and one of Mitch or Noel you cant start Elf with them. Its not even Elfs fault because i dont think hes actually the sole reason we're bad hes just an awful fit there and hes the easiest to replace.

You specifically will hate me for this but Rivers should start with that group and Burks lol. Hes a good enough threat from deep to bust a zone. Either that or Quickley but id rather Quickley run with the rest of the young guys on the 2nd unit.

Yeah

Even for as much as I sh*t on him, when Elf was playing with the kids in the 2nd unit tonight, they all looked pretty good. Granted, they still looked good when Elf was swapped for Quickley, but still

I think especially if you're gonna start Randle and bring Obi off the bench, Elf would look much better as a backup cause the kid lineup doesn't really have playmaking or shot creating, which he brings, while the starters have RJ and Randle who are both shot creators, making Elf irrelevant. The problem is and has been that we really can't justify benching him on individual performance, cause statistically he is the "best" at PG. I had to switch to a Cavs stream towards the end of the game, and one of their guys said the problem with the Knicks is we have too many guys who want the ball and not enough shooters. So literally everyone else can see it except the people who make the decisions. It's maddening.

I would like to think Thibs and the rest of the guys saw something tonight that clicked a lightbulb in their heads. Thibs isn't dumb... Previous Knicks coaches used to always put the starters back in after a certain group made a run but he stuck with the group that was playing well which I think is a good sign that he isn't married to certain lineups getting X amount of minutes right now. I also think he probably has the most support from the FO that any Knicks coach has had in a while which will help with making the tough calls.

Bottom line is Elf is making 5 million a year... there aren't any starting veteran pgs out there making that little amount of $. I don't think it's unrealistic for him to expect to accept a bench role considering that. And honestly he might be our best pg still but he's just an awful fit with our starters. It's what's best for both sides. He'll play better with that bench unit anyway. It's up to Thibs to relay that to him.

Thibs has said several times in interviews, "it's not about who starts but who finishes"

Still, hope he sees what works for the TEAM, in the starting lineup

[Knicksfan20]

If we lose to a G league talent... we suck!!
If we beat a G league talent... we still suck?!?!

I don't get those discounting the performance. They did what they were SUPPOSED to do! I can recall when we would have sucked against these guys...as in like last year. Glad to see the kids performing well

just because a sucky team beats another sucky team, that doesnt make said sucky team unsucky.

[cgmw]

DSJ cannot play point guard because he cannot dribble. how many times do we have to watch him struggle to get from half court to even the arc? what he showed in the second half last night is that we can utilize him as a hustle player and if he focuses on off-ball movement and cutting, we could probably make use of his offensive talents too. on-ball is 100% a no-go at this point

And Cleveland knew it. They kept sending that lumbering crew cut white kid from Texas Tech to pick up full court. I said it above but it bears repeating—if he can’t beat Matt Mooney north-south, who the hell can DSJ beat off the dribble?

[mpharris36]

Sit Dennis smiff forever... give frank most of Elfrid minutes.. start Quickley.. Frank spot minutes at the backup point and 2

IQ and RJ make the most sense fit wise. We will see if Thibs has the cojones to start him or play him a majority of minutes.

If say you started IQ, Burks, RJ, Obi, Mitch you would actually have some semblance of NBA shooting and spacing.

why get excited about the possibility something that will never happen ?

True but how long does thibs allow teams to just run 2-3 zone against us?

[god shammgod]

I'd let him be the primary P&R guy, and Mitch will have to learn to adjust.
Or, hope there's a really reliable place where Obi makes jumpers, and let Mitch set the screens. Or run double screens\misdirects etc

mitch is literally the best pnr player in the league statistically. he is more likely to score as the roll man than anyone else. obi was an average pnr player in college. besides attempting to make obi look better there isn't a point to that. he has to learn to shoot the 3.

[Richard4444]

I loved the kids game.

But we have to acknowledge that they played the third team of one of the worst NBA rosters.

We beat a Cavs team of Matt Mooney, Dean Wade, Levi Randolph, Lamar Stevens and Marquese Bolden.

[rajajackal]

i think that with thibs, yes the vets were always gonna get the first look like under most coaches, but unlike previous FO's coach/minions, he will not refuse to play the consistently best lineups just to indulge certain players. last night's 4th quarter is the first glimpse we've gotten of what it'll take for the young guys to replace the vets, and it's only 3 games into preseason. remember, we hired a development-focused staff. i expect to see improvements where there's promise by the all-star break. other pieces will prove we need to move on from them. such is the nature of this process

[cgmw]

I loved the kids game.

But we have to acknowledge that they played the third team of one of the worst NBA rosters.

We beat a Cavs team of Matt Mooney, Dean Wade, Levi Randolph, Lamar Stevens and Marquese Bolden.

Sure but we also got blown out for 3 quarters by Matt Mooney, Dean Wade, Levi Randolph, Lamar Stevens, and Marquese Bolden.