Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

[Prez]

So we're only talking about the series when the Bucks were eliminated. It's an opinion based on less than the 24 games I had said. It's based on 35% of Bledsoe's playoff career. One year you count the 1st round. The next year you don't count the 1st or 2nd rounds but only count the 3rd round. But then the third year you do count the 2nd round. You're using a very random selection of evidence to support your claim. I could find players who choke every year from January 10th-20th if I looked.

No I'm not actually, re-read the post. The first set of stats I posted were for literally his entire Bucks playoff tenure, no cherry picking whatsoever, and they're awful. I tacked on the elimination series numbers at the very end to illustrate just how atrocious he was at the very highest levels and how it ultimately cost us, but the first set of numbers are his entire Bucks playoff tenure combined with no series excluded.

The old adage goes those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. From 2003-2008 in series when the Mavs were eliminated (31 games), Dirk averaged 24.0 ppg on .431 FG% and .311 3P%. People said Dirk wasn't a playoff performer. He's too soft and folds under pressure. Then from 2009-2011, Dirk averaged 27.3 ppg on .503 FG%, .423 3P%, and a Finals MVP.

From 2010-2016 in series when OKC was eliminated from the playoffs (34 games), Durant averaged 18.7 ppg on .438 FG% and .313 3P%. Since then, he's been a historically great Finals performer averaging 30.2 ppg on .545 FG%, .476 3P%, and two Finals MVPs.

LeBron was once considered incapable of winning on the big stage in his first stint in Cleveland. Kyle Lowry used to be viewed as a notorious playoff choke artist. Bledsoe is hardly unique in attracting criticism for his playoff performances. He would only be unique if he doesn't revert to the mean.

Again my post literally lead with his overall Bucks playoff stats to give the full picture. This entire argument you're putting together fails when you consider that Bledsoe has sucked overall and not just when focusing on elimination series. The man has literally had 1 pretty good playoff series in his Bucks tenure and it was against the corpse of Detroit in the first round.

Durant, Dirk, LeBron are some of the greatest players of all time and have all had absolutely monstrous playoff runs including deep conference finals or finals runs well before they actually won the title. It is insane to me that you're bringing them up to try to defend friggin Eric Bledsoe lol.

Your entire argument seems to boil down to "well yeah, he's sucked ass his entire Bucks playoff tenure, but surely he can't suck four postseasons in a row!"

[buckbeer]

I liked the idea of Jrue and DJ A on the court together. We saw a little of it these last two games... It wasn't mind blowing or anything, but I'd like to see them keep trying it out.

Yup me too, the two preseason games shows that Augustin is the Bucks best PG and Jrue should be a SG and a scorer.

[Coach Carter]

A few things:

- Bledsoe was so bad, one of the 1st round picks was because his value was rock bottom.
- Jrue will be a contributor because he doesn't s*** the bed like Bledsoe.
- DJA is probably our best passer and should be starting ahead of DDV but I think bud wants him off the bench as he showed good chemistry with Portis in generating points. I think bud needs to make the change and give more time to Merrill and Nwora. Both can shoot it well.

[FlagsFlyForever]

Your entire argument seems to boil down to "well yeah, he's sucked ass his entire Bucks playoff tenure, but surely he can't suck four postseasons in a row!"

My entire argument is regular season performance is more indicative of future postseason performance than prior postseason performance is. The Bledsoe narrative is a recycled story with a familiar ending.

[sdn40]

Comparing Jrue with Bledsoe, or anyone else at this point, is stupid.
Playing on a team with Giannis is unique. No comparisons or judgements should be made until Jrue has some games under his belt.

While most want to concentrate on what Bledsoe was not - my opinion was based upon what he was. This was my quote from Jan. 2019: "He does all the dirty work most guys won't do. He follows most of his shots, walls off defenders for his teammates, rebounds, his defense is off the charts. He can create and blow by guys seemingly at will. He brings things to the table nobody else on the roster can. Dude plays HARD." That led me to the team MVP comment.

Did Bledsoe make the occasional bad pass ? Yes. Did Bledsoe take the occasional bad shot ? Yes. Does Giannis do those things too ? Yes, and then some. Giannis is Giannis. Middleton's game is somewhat limited but he is excellent at what he does. Who is gonna create off the dribble ? Who is going to drive the ball and create angles ? Who is gonna make the correct pass on the break ? Who is gonna drive and dish ?

Remember before Bledsoe when the offense would get stuck passing the ball around the perimeter until someone was forced to take a contested perimeter shot or drive the lane on 3 defenders ? That was some ugly basketball and wasn't too long ago. Is DDV gonna be that guy ? No way. Is Jrue ? Portis ?

Can anyone realistically say who is going to replace all the little things Bledsoe did ? Because if you think those things were insignificant - you're wrong.

[LuessiT]

Do people feel Jrue is better in a full switch situation than Bledsoe?

It seemed to me a lot of Bledsoe's value on defense was being able to fight over screens so they could keep using the drop zone. He seemed to get exposed at times when they went full switch because he would get posted up inside and it lead to easy scores or him fouling in the post. To me he doesn't seem to be a great post defender on anyone taller than him.

Jrue has a few inches on Bledsoe and seems to not get destroyed in the post on switches.

Wondering what everyone else thinks.

Not sure how nuanced of a discussion you want to get into but Skones already mentioned a few things. A big difference is how both defend high screens in the PnR. Now mind you this is based on Bledose's play here and Jrue's play in New Orleans - either player may or may not be capable of defending differently.
Bledsoe goes over screens hard. That means unless the screen is so poorly set that he can just slip the screen he will trail the ball handler and potentially contest from the rear. Jrue takes varied approach. He sometimes goes over, sometimes goes under (usually paired with a poke at the ball). Bledsoe is more prone to get burned by pullup 2 threats, drives to the rim and will generally foul shooters more often. Jrue will get burned by pullup 3's more often.

[crkone]

I think the lineup where DJA replaces DDV are going to be pretty good with his PnR capabilities.

[HKPackFan]

It's actually kind of incredible how polar opposites Giannis and Harden seem.

Not sure in their playing style (which of course is pretty opposite of each other too), but character.

Giannis seems like the guy who's blue collar wants quiet and privacy and just to be home play with his son and relax with his family.

Harden seems like the guy between games who want the glitz bright lights and snort cocaine off the ass of some stripper, waltz onto the court 2 minutes before game time , score a 50pt triple double and head back to his hotel room with more hookers and blow waiting while the Tequila and Hennessy bottles are iced up in the bathtub.

[drone3]

It's actually kind of incredible how polar opposites Giannis and Harden seem.

Not sure in their playing style (which of course is pretty opposite of each other too), but character.

Giannis seems like the guy who's blue collar wants quiet and privacy and just to be home play with his son and relax with his family.

Harden seems like the guy between games who want the glitz bright lights and snort cocaine off the ass of some stripper, waltz onto the court 2 minutes before game time , score a 50pt triple double and head back to his hotel room with more hookers and blow waiting while the Tequila and Hennessy bottles are iced up in the bathtub.

So true, I just can't see Giannis ever accepting Hardens shenanigans for a full season.

[drone3]

I liked the idea of Jrue and DJ A on the court together. We saw a little of it these last two games... It wasn't mind blowing or anything, but I'd like to see them keep trying it out.

Yup me too, the two preseason games shows that Augustin is the Bucks best PG and Jrue should be a SG and a scorer.

From Bud's interview it seemed that he really wants DJA running the second unit. We saw pretty good feeds from DJA to Portis and even DJW.

DJA can for sure play with the starters I just don't think that is the game plan. Have a feeling they will keep Donte as a starter hope he blossoms and if not try find a mid year trade or buy out.

Other options could include Forbes as starter although I really think Merill is the guy that could pull it all together he just needs minutes.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

in retrospect i kind of wish wed kept bIedsoe and moved out Iopez in his pIace. i doubt NO wouId have minded as they probabIy couId have moved him the way they did hiII. i dont Iike we deaIt bIedsoe at his absoIute Iow for jrue at his absoIute high....... and if the two piayed on the court together i think wed have something

[LuessiT]

It's actually kind of incredible how polar opposites Giannis and Harden seem.

Not sure in their playing style (which of course is pretty opposite of each other too), but character.

Giannis seems like the guy who's blue collar wants quiet and privacy and just to be home play with his son and relax with his family.

Harden seems like the guy between games who want the glitz bright lights and snort cocaine off the ass of some stripper, waltz onto the court 2 minutes before game time , score a 50pt triple double and head back to his hotel room with more hookers and blow waiting while the Tequila and Hennessy bottles are iced up in the bathtub.

So true, I just can't see Giannis ever accepting Hardens shenanigans for a full season.

You get this from the hit pieces Fertitta is lancing? Harden is an incredibly hard worker. I couldn't care less how he spends his free time. He does have his antics but let's keep things in perspective.

[Ron Swanson]

I was one of the biggest pro-Bledsoe guys way before he even came to Milwaukee, but sorry, we need to stop dismissing everything that happens with individual players in the postseason as "small sample size". The biggest crutch of analytics is that it fools people into believing there isn't a psychological/mental side to sports, which is pretty ridiculous considering these guys are humans and not, you know, robots operating off Excel spreadsheets. Bledsoe even admitted it to an extent in his comments about seeing a psychologist in the offseason. Even if he eventually "figures it out", the team couldn't afford to wait on him.

[LUKE23]

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=bledser01&player_id2=holidjr01

I think we have a large enough sample size to determine Jrue Holiday the better playoff performer. Bledsoe has played in 48 playoff games, Holiday has played in 30. That's a good sample size.

While their playoff per 36 raw stats are similar, there are a few distinct differences:

Bledsoe Playoff TS: .516 (.558 for career)
Holiday Playoff TS: .545 (.529 for career)

Bledsoe Playoff FT per 36: 2.7 makes @ .712 (3.9 makes @ .793 career)
Holiday Playoff FT per 36: 2.5 makes @ .806 (2.2 makes @ .777 career)

Bledsoe Playoff 3's per 36: 1.1 makes @ .254 (1.4 makes @ .336 career)
Holiday Playoff 3's per 36: 1.6 makes @ .387 (1.4 makes @ .354 career)

Basically, what it looks like to me is that Bledsoe's shooting goes into the **** when things get tough, and Holiday at minimum maintains his shooting, if not plays better under pressure. The FT and 3 point shooting differences for Bledsoe are alarming over a now 48 game playoff sample.

[coolhandluke121]

Do people feel Jrue is better in a full switch situation than Bledsoe?

It seemed to me a lot of Bledsoe's value on defense was being able to fight over screens so they could keep using the drop zone. He seemed to get exposed at times when they went full switch because he would get posted up inside and it lead to easy scores or him fouling in the post. To me he doesn't seem to be a great post defender on anyone taller than him.

Jrue has a few inches on Bledsoe and seems to not get destroyed in the post on switches.

Wondering what everyone else thinks.

He guarded Butler multiple times in the post and did a great job from what I saw. He might literally be the strongest guy at his height in NBA history and he has like a 6'8" wingspan. The Bucks should have switched more. The real issue with not playing the defense that would have been best for them was Brook, not Bledsoe. I know they had great regular season defense, but when you advance in the playoffs and face teams who can put 4 or 5 shooters on the floor, the defense was exploited like clockwork.

Jrue is better at switching though, and if that's what it takes to grow out of the damn dinosaur drop defense and dinosaur plodder Brook, I'm all for it.

[WRau1]

in retrospect i kind of wish wed kept bIedsoe and moved out Iopez in his pIace. i doubt NO wouId have minded as they probabIy couId have moved him the way they did hiII. i dont Iike we deaIt bIedsoe at his absoIute Iow for jrue at his absoIute high....... and if the two piayed on the court together i think wed have something

NOP wanted Bledsoe in the deal.

[buckbeer]

I liked the idea of Jrue and DJ A on the court together. We saw a little of it these last two games... It wasn't mind blowing or anything, but I'd like to see them keep trying it out.

Yup me too, the two preseason games shows that Augustin is the Bucks best PG and Jrue should be a SG and a scorer.

From Bud's interview it seemed that he really wants DJA running the second unit. We saw pretty good feeds from DJA to Portis and even DJW.

DJA can for sure play with the starters I just don't think that is the game plan. Have a feeling they will keep Donte as a starter hope he blossoms and if not try find a mid year trade or buy out.

Other options could include Forbes as starter although I really think Merill is the guy that could pull it all together he just needs minutes.

If DDV can play PG like Brogdon, that would make him more valuable to the Bucks.

DDV should've been working on PG skills in team practice and during offseason training.

[DingleJerry]

The most frustrating thing that pops into my head reading about playoff Bledsoe here is that if they'd have just kept him on the bench at crunch time of those Raps games instead of trusting him since he'd been so good in the regular season, they probably would have a title already.

[Prez]

Your entire argument seems to boil down to "well yeah, he's sucked ass his entire Bucks playoff tenure, but surely he can't suck four postseasons in a row!"

My entire argument is regular season performance is more indicative of future postseason performance than prior postseason performance is. The Bledsoe narrative is a recycled story with a familiar ending.

Every single instance you posed as evidence that we can expect some turnaround from Bledsoe is wildly different than Bledsoe’s situation. Dirk, Durant, LeBron have all, again, had incredible playoff series and deep postseason runs when people stupidly called them chokers or poor playoff guys or whatever else. Even Lowry has had plenty of really good playoff games and solid to very good playoff performances that would indicate he’s at least got that level in him. Bledsoe has literally never in his 3 seasons with the Bucks shown an ability to really step up against the best teams in a playoff environment.

Bledsoe pretty clearly has anxiety issues in high pressure situations, games, series and his skill-set and basketball IQ flat out does not translate well to playoff basketball, particularly against really good teams. It makes zero sense to dismiss these factors as if regular season and playoff basketball are the same thing, which they are absolutely not and we’ve seen that play out with Bledsoe for 3 seasons straight. Stubbornly sticking with him because of his regular season play when the level of defensive intensity, attention to detail, game planning by the opponent is not near what it is in the playoffs, and just praying that he’ll one day translate that to the playoffs would’ve been criminal and is how you piss off and eventually lose your star. This team absolutely could not afford to have Bledsoe as their starting PG in the playoffs anymore.

[ABucksFan]

Bledsoe is a proven playoff choker. End of story.