Deni Avdija

[tontoz]

I am going to pledge now not to overreact to anything he does over the first few months. It takes time to see what type of player a rookie will be. Beal was an epically bad 3 pt shooter his first couple of months. Even in year 3 he was a lousy pick and roll player who settled for midrange jumpers way too often. Porter barely made a dent in the box score early on.

On the other hand there were people on here singing the praises of Chris Singleton early in his rookie year. He was out of the league after 3 years. There are times where a guy looks good early on but then the league adjusts and exposes their weaknesses.

Patience

[doclinkin]

Ok, so far most of those candid enough to answer say they would have picked Okongwu over Avdija had both been on the board. In fact, so far I'm the only one who is saying straight out that I'd have taken Deni over Okongwu.

In fact, of the first 8 picks, there are only 2 guys I'd have taken over Deni: Wiseman & Ball.

Interestingly you never said that BEFORE the draft. In fact you never risked a ranking, though you asked for many other people's. Some of us here have been paying attention. No after the fact back pats for assertions you never made. You get Clarke, that's it.

[nate33]

Who do we think produces a triple double first? Brown or Avdija?

Brown. But that doesn't mean I don't like Avdija.

Brown is an excellent rebounder who can easily get 10 rebounds on a given night if he gets the minutes. And Brown is more likely to be the primary ball-handler/PG since he actually plays guard and not forward. So he is more likely to have the touches to accumulate 10 assists.

Heck, when given consistent minutes in the Bubble last year, Brown just barely missed a triple double twice (out of 8 games). He posted 20, 10 and 8 in 38 minutes against Brooklyn; 10, 7 and 8 in 30 minutes against Indiana; and 20, 10 and 5 in 38 minutes against New Orleans. Over the last 7 games of the Bubble, he averaged 15, 8 and 5 in 34 minutes a game

[Shoe]

We saw some of Deni's flaws - poor shooting, no left hand, no pull up game. I think he needs to stick with corner 3s for now. All that said he has a nice passing touch and plays heads up basketball, and he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of his man on defense. Also he's had some strong finishes at the rim although with his right hand even when he went left.

How do we know those are flaws? What about that pull-up at the end of the 1st half? We need a little larger sample size.

Based off his scouting report.

[DCZards]

Ok, so far most of those candid enough to answer say they would have picked Okongwu over Avdija had both been on the board. In fact, so far I'm the only one who is saying straight out that I'd have taken Deni over Okongwu.

In fact, of the first 8 picks, there are only 2 guys I'd have taken over Deni: Wiseman & Ball.

Like most here, I'm loving what I'm seeing from Deni. But I still would have drafted Okongwu over him...maybe even Isaac Okoro.

Wiseman would have probably been my top choice but we knew he wouldn't be there at 9.

[DCZards]

Ok, so far most of those candid enough to answer say they would have picked Okongwu over Avdija had both been on the board. In fact, so far I'm the only one who is saying straight out that I'd have taken Deni over Okongwu.

In fact, of the first 8 picks, there are only 2 guys I'd have taken over Deni: Wiseman & Ball.

Interestingly you never said that BEFORE the draft. In fact you never risked a ranking, though you asked for many other people's. Some of us here have been paying attention. No after the fact back pats for assertions you never made. You get Clarke, that's it.

Doc makes a good point, PIF. You wanted the Zards to trade down for multiple picks, which many of us agreed with. But, unlike most posters, you never said who you would draft at 9 (or did you say Okongwu if he were available?).

You can't parachute in now and claim that Deni was one of your top 3 guys when he didn't appear to be on your radar screen prior to the draft.

[prime1time]

We saw some of Deni's flaws - poor shooting, no left hand, no pull up game. I think he needs to stick with corner 3s for now. All that said he has a nice passing touch and plays heads up basketball, and he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of his man on defense. Also he's had some strong finishes at the rim although with his right hand even when he went left.

How do we know those are flaws? What about that pull-up at the end of the 1st half? We need a little larger sample size.

Based off his scouting report.

European players are hard to scout, and in addition, because of the pandemic players had months to add to their games. It’s weird but I’ve decided to approach it as a blank slate.

[prime1time]

I wanted Okongwu, but all the mocks has Deni going earlier. I haven’t seen Okongwu play yet but I’m not going to argue against Deni because I still think Bryant has a chance to be the guy.

[Shoe]

How do we know those are flaws? What about that pull-up at the end of the 1st half? We need a little larger sample size.

Based off his scouting report.

European players are hard to scout, and in addition, because of the pandemic players had months to add to their games. It’s weird but I’ve decided to approach it as a blank slate.

No doubt. He'll have more space and freedom here than in the Euroleague. Beal said he wants Deni to look for the basket more. That after an 8 fga game is a good sign of what he thinks the rookie can do.

[payitforward]

Ok, so far most of those candid enough to answer say they would have picked Okongwu over Avdija had both been on the board. In fact, so far I'm the only one who is saying straight out that I'd have taken Deni over Okongwu.

In fact, of the first 8 picks, there are only 2 guys I'd have taken over Deni: Wiseman & Ball.

Interestingly you never said that BEFORE the draft. In fact you never risked a ranking, though you asked for many other people's. Some of us here have been paying attention. No after the fact back pats for assertions you never made. You get Clarke, that's it.

I think you miss an important point, doc.

Even if I did say explicitly that I preferred Avdija to Okongwu, it still doesn't indicate anything special about my ability to pick 'em. After all, Deni was almost always rated above Okongwu in the run-up to the draft. Some people had him as the #1 guy!

I did call Deni one of the very top prospects, but even that was no more than agreeing w/ the general view.

Now, I certainly raved about it when we picked him. OTOH, in fairness, Okongwu was gone, so my raving doesn't prove anything either -- unless maybe I specifically said something like "wow, this is even better than if Okongwu had fallen to us," which I don't think I did.

But, even in that case, I'd have been echoing the general view about Deni, no more.

The 2d of those statements (that I'd only have taken Wiseman & Ball above Deni) I'm sure I never said, you are right. &, again, even if I had written that -- I'm not sure I'd have been right.

For example: never ever would I have taken Patrick Williams @#4 in the draft; nor would I have taken him over Deni. Not only that, but before he zoomed up the boards, I wasn't saying "hey let's trade down; we'll get Patrick Williams who's way under-rated & another guy too."

But, the kid has come in & looked really really good. As has Okoro, another guy I wasn't particularly excited about.

In short, I'm really happy we got Deni, & yes I'd have taken him over Okongwu. But, so what?

[payitforward]

Ok, so far most of those candid enough to answer say they would have picked Okongwu over Avdija had both been on the board. In fact, so far I'm the only one who is saying straight out that I'd have taken Deni over Okongwu.

In fact, of the first 8 picks, there are only 2 guys I'd have taken over Deni: Wiseman & Ball.

Interestingly you never said that BEFORE the draft. In fact you never risked a ranking, though you asked for many other people's. Some of us here have been paying attention. No after the fact back pats for assertions you never made. You get Clarke, that's it.

Doc makes a good point, PIF. You wanted the Zards to trade down for multiple picks, which many of us agreed with. But, unlike most posters, you never said who you would draft at 9 (or did you say Okongwu if he were available?).

You can't parachute in now and claim that Deni was one of your top 3 guys when he didn't appear to be on your radar screen prior to the draft.

Well, I've already responded to this. I had Deni in the top 3-4 guys, but so what? He wasn't on my radar, b/c I was absolutely certain he'd be gone. I don't think I wrote a word about Wiseman either -- same reason.

Most people were talking about Precious @ #9 -- on the assumption that Okongwu would be gone. He went #20, so if we'd been able to make the Celtics trade we'd have been able to get him & more. Plus, if the Knicks had taken Deni, & we were left the surprising opportunity to choose Obi Toppin, I'd still have wanted to trade down!

I sure wouldn't have preferred to take Vassell, for example -- yet, so far, he is absolutely killing it! I guess the Spurs FO is pretty good, huh...?

Main point: I had no particularly clever take on the top of this draft. Not at all.

[payitforward]

Now that we've established the fact that I'm not making any claim to have been smart about Deni, & noting as well that we do not know who will be better between them -- we don't even know that either of them will wind up a good NBA player! -- I'd like to return to my question:

if both Okongwu & Avdija had been on the board at #9, which one would you have taken?

Zards, Doc & Jar would have taken Okongwu over Avdija; Natp4 & I would have taken Avdija over Okongwu.

How about the rest of you?

[prime1time]

I would have taken Advija over Okongwu and there aren’t a lot of players I would consider taking over him from this draft if any. I’m excited to see how his game will develop.

[doclinkin]

Zards, Doc & Jar would have taken Okongwu over Avdija

I would have, and I'm geting the feeling I would have been wrong. But at least I'm not lying about it

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Now that we've established the fact that I'm not making any claim to have been smart about Deni, & noting as well that we do not know who will be better between them -- we don't even know that either of them will wind up a good NBA player! -- I'd like to return to my question:

if both Okongwu & Avdija had been on the board at #9, which one would you have taken?

Zards, Doc & Jar would have taken Okongwu over Avdija; Natp4 & I would have taken Avdija over Okongwu.

How about the rest of you?

Okongwu

[NatP4]

Can we move this to the draft thread and talk about Deni?

[doclinkin]

No. It's discussing the relative value of Deni as measured against contemporary draftees.
It's not comparing apples to handguns.

[NatP4]

No. It's discussing the relative value of Deni as measured against contemporary draftees.
It's not comparing apples to handguns.

it's really just d*** measuring between you and PIF.

Deni just played an average of 30 minutes per game in 3 preseason games

per 36: 12.4 points 7.2 rebounds 2.8 assists 2 steals 2 turnovers on 60% shooting. 63% on 2s, 50% on 3s.

with Maccabi
per36: 10.2 points 6.6 rebounds 2.9 assists 1.0 steals 1.8 turnovers 43% shooting 60% on 2s, 27.7% on 3s.

let's talk about that!

[Hibachi_0]

Really liking how Deni is playing this first games. Better defense than I expected, and keeping that high basketball IQ type of playing already seen in Europe. Shot doesn't look bad on catch & shoot, however still a small sample. I feel like when shooting off the bounce he looks kind of stiff, did anybody feel the same? Also liking the chemistry he seems to be building with the rest of the team and how he is not rushing things out.

We might have something here...

[verbal8]

Really liking how Deni is playing this first games. Better defense than I expected, and keeping that high basketball IQ type of playing already seen in Europe. Shot doesn't look bad on catch & shoot, however still a small sample. I feel like when shooting off the bounce he looks kind of stiff, did anybody feel the same? Also liking the chemistry he seems to be building with the rest of the team and how he is not rushing things out.

We might have something here...

Westbrook might really mesh with the role players on the Wizards. While his tendency to force things can be a bad thing, it can take some of the pressure off other players to create.