Knicks - Cavs PG II

[thebuzzardman]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

[Jeff Van Gully]

go head nbabrothers, this is your time

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it's gonna be payton

payton or frank.

thibs, please whatever you do... just no more elf. it's no longer necessary or even worthwhile.

let him have his loyalty check and ride the bench until it's time to waive or deal him to a playoff team.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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Knew it! Everyone hates foul baiting but to have that skill right out of the gate is impressive. Especially for the refs to actually call them for a rookie.

Did you all notice how much talking to the refs he’s been doing?

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?s=19

he been here before. he a shepherd for the devil.

[thebuzzardman]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I never thought he had a lack of skill. To me it's always been about his hips. I am not sure you can change that about him which will limit him. He's going to have to improve his handle to be able to pull up off the dribble and face up like Amare was able to do. He's a hard worker and a good team player which is a plus.

The stiff/high hips thing is valid but it's something that can be mitigated.

On defense he is workable and his deficiencies due to the hips can be masked with schemes and favorable coverages and matchups. We won't put him out on an island against SF's. Again, the things he can work on like getting stronger should allow him to reasonably check most 4's.

On offense as long as he tightens the handle, faces up and makes moves using a decisive 1st step, and gets comfortable shooting the NBA range jumper he will be fine. Those are all things that can be worked out and improved on.

But you can't teach court vision. You can't teach unselfishness. You can't teach motor. Those are things that are about how a player is wired. And Obi has those qualities.

Pretty cool; I didn't read this before I replied to your other post - or more like made a general post quoting yours.

But it states exactly what I was getting at.

[Oscirus]

go head nbabrothers, this is your time

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it's gonna be payton

Will not, either frank or dennis, should not dennis or payton

[thebuzzardman]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I just like making jokes about how everyone said we should draft him cause he was older and therefore would be ready to go day one instead of a project that'll take a while to be ready, and now it looks like he's the same as any other rookie and will need time to settle in

But like I said, it took Siakam 3 years to really break out, and it's only fair to give Obi the same benefit of the doubt I give our other picks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Ding!

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I think it's pretty obvious right now that Obi isn't used to NBA length, he'll figure out how to score inside a little better as the season goes on. Last night McGee clearly intimidated him, and so did Thon when he came in. There were a few times Obi had the ball in scoring position and either pump faked which allowed the defender to recover, or just passed up the shot. When he finally decided to attack without any hesitation he scored on McGee, but for the most part when he sees a 7 footer rotating he's second guessing himself, that fade away from like 8 feet that Thon blocked is a perfect example.

He does need to get stronger to play the 4, he's too light at 220lbs, I think that would make him one of the lightest PFs in the league, even someone like Siakam is 10lbs heavier than that. He's more of a project than people think, the way the Knicks have used him he has to be a solid three point shooter, because he's honestly being used like a stretch on offense, cause he's not going to get many if any post touches. I'm not even sure we have anyone on the team that can throw an entry pass when he seals his man who is fronting him, I've yet to see anyone throw him the ball when he calls for it in those situations.

[Fat]

go head nbabrothers, this is your time

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it's gonna be payton

To start out

Payton / Frank
Burks / Quickley
Barret / bullock
Randle / toppin
Noel / Mitch

After 5-10 games

Quickley / Payton
Burks / rivers
Barret / Knox
Randle / toppin
Noel / Mitch


Honestly the Knicks need to go head and make some kind of trade to many guys looking for minutes

[Gravy]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

But JR Smith won a championship as a starter. He directly contributed to winning basketball.

I think the winning basketball argument is definitely overused. People will say stuff like Frank is more of a winning player than Harden or Westbrook because they don't like their play style. Unless you have someone that is actively hurting you on defense every play like Kanter or KAT then almost anyone in the NBA can contribute to winning with the right #1 and #2 options leading the team.

[Triple C]

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[Clyde_Style]

He definitely seems to need some time.

Hopefully it works out. He seems to want to play the right way and work hard.
I usually hate the hot takes, but again, a little worried.

He plays with intelligence. But he's definitely pressing. All of this talk about his size and muscles, it's just not relevant yet until you see how he functions when he calms down. He's a SF. People are reacting because they thought he was a bully PF and he isn't. So put on a different set of glasses. And just wait a bit.

He's going to be be a good player. And even if he does end up a role player we secured two solid rotation pieces in this draft. And if IQ is the prize then that's just how the cookie crumbles. Obi clearly feels the pressure of being # 8. IQ probably was poised regardless of draft position, but he has no pressure to prove anything due to being a lottery selection.

Again, this place pretty much is a cess pool of hot takes. Half of this board was calling RJ a bust last year and they were FOS. I was one of the people saying hold your horses just like now. So hold your horses

Saying Obi will be a good player is not less of a hot take than to say he won't be. You're putting as much certainty in your statements as the people who just choose to be more skeptical than you, if not more. If the skeptics need to hold their horses, then so should you, and so should everybody. And we can have nice, boring, flat conversations about how nobody knows the future. Or we can just oppose our views like we've been doing. I mean damn, I've certainly had to defend RJ on here.

You say Obi's a SF. I disagree but fine. But then we have to realize that the qualities he displayed as a PF/C in college and which made him a top prospect in the eyes of many in the first place are insignificant or of secondary importance for his NBA future. I think his functional athleticism is already questionable (at this stage) for the 4 spot, I don't think he has the mobility, the first step or the dribble to play the 3. I think that's setting him up to fail even more.

No one's saying he's a bust, but we should be able to discuss how his skill set fits in the modern NBA and how he fits on that team.

I was too harsh last night.

Apologies to anyone I offended, including Buzz

Just give the kid some breathing room is all I would like to see, but you're all entitled to your opinions.

[jvsimonetti0514]

A couple observation from last nights game:

This game was certainly more impressive than the last win against the Cavs just cuz they had Sexton back and had like 7 guys that could be in the rotation.

We probably had the most modern offensive game plan I've seen from a Knicks team in like since we played Melo at the small ball 4.

Everyone was getting in on the drive and kick game and we ran plays for getting corner threes. Thibs actually doing something that he said he would in preseason!

RJ and Randle 100% don't like he each and actively look each other off when they're open. There was two or three times that RJ was open for a three or Randle has position in the post they went somewhere else with the ball. Luckily for Randle, he found Bullock open for some corner threes.

Really impressed with Randle playing as the zone buster at the high post. It makes it so much easier to break when there's two shooters on the floor instead of one.

Quickley should start cuz it adds so much more balance to the line up.

[Richard4444]

go head nbabrothers, this is your time

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it's gonna be payton

I dont think Rivers is a lock.

Payton and Bullock are more probable locks than Rivers.

[Clyde_Style]

He plays with intelligence. But he's definitely pressing. All of this talk about his size and muscles, it's just not relevant yet until you see how he functions when he calms down. He's a SF. People are reacting because they thought he was a bully PF and he isn't. So put on a different set of glasses. And just wait a bit.

He's going to be be a good player. And even if he does end up a role player we secured two solid rotation pieces in this draft. And if IQ is the prize then that's just how the cookie crumbles. Obi clearly feels the pressure of being # 8. IQ probably was poised regardless of draft position, but he has no pressure to prove anything due to being a lottery selection.

Again, this place pretty much is a cess pool of hot takes. Half of this board was calling RJ a bust last year and they were FOS. I was one of the people saying hold your horses just like now. So hold your horses

Saying Obi will be a good player is not less of a hot take than to say he won't be. You're putting as much certainty in your statements as the people who just choose to be more skeptical than you. If the skeptics need to hold their horses, then so should you, and so should everybody. And we can have nice, boring, flat conversations about how nobody knows the future. Or we can just oppose our views like we've been doing. I mean damn, I've certainly had to defend RJ on here.

You say Obi's a SF. I disagree but fine. But then we have to realize that the qualities he displayed as a PF/C in college and which made him a top prospect in the eyes of many in the first place are insignificant or of secondary importance for his NBA future. I think his functional athleticism is already questionable (at this stage) for the 4 spot, I don't think he has the mobility, the first step or the dribble to play the 3. I think that's setting him up to fail even more.

No one's saying he's a bust, but we should be able to discuss how his skill set fits in the modern NBA and how he fits on that team.

You're not necessarily wrong in anything you're saying. But of all things to discuss coming off the heels of this feel good win, is NOW the optimal time to dissect Obi? It's just a buzzkill, man.

Can we have one period where we revel in excitement over our draft picks and their development? Trust me, the ugly losses are right around the corner (have you seen our opening regular season schedule?) ...feel free to go in on the concerns about Obi at that time. But to do this now is just odd. People just want to be the first to say "he ain't it."

That's fine, but even with the uneven results he has shown enough to merit a grace period during a time of adjustments. Have you seen a recent PF we can develop that has shown his court vision, unselfishness, quick decision-making, and perseverance even when things don't immediately go his way?

Also, keep in mind who he was sharing the floor with most of the night. Bums who will be G Leaguers or cut. And even then, with them refusing to feature him in extensive gar-bahge time, as they tried to play for their fringe basketball lives, Obi never got frustrated or attempted to force things.

Man, I'm not worried about Obi. He just needs reps and to get stronger. Everything else will come, including the jumper. Then his whole game will open up.

This is what I should have said last night. Thanks, because that's how I felt, but I was too agrro about it. Anyway, I'm pleased with what is happening so far. It feels like a corner has been turned and there is a reason to tune in again.

[thebuzzardman]

What a slap to the face to the nets. KD looked dominated last night and Nets beat the Celtics in a blowout. They get page 55 recognition for that

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[god shammgod]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

But JR Smith won a championship as a starter. He directly contributed to winning basketball.

I think the winning basketball argument is definitely overused. People will say stuff like Frank is more of a winning player than Harden or Westbrook because they don't like their play style. Unless you have someone that is actively hurting you on defense every play like Kanter or KAT then almost anyone in the NBA can contribute to winning with the right #1 and #2 options leading the team.

jr smith and beasley are nothing alike on the court. they're both dumb stoners or whatever but jr had a real role he could fill. he was one of the best catch and shoot guards in the league in his prime. he was also a very good secondary shot creator for others. he could play defense when he wanted. he wasn't just a one on one scorer like beasley. what can you do if you're not the star is the question. how can you contribute playing around others ?

[god shammgod]

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[Tron Carter]

What a slap to the face to the nets. KD looked dominated last night and Nets beat the Celtics in a blowout. They get page 55 recognition for that

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must be a party over on the nets board to come lurk around here. pathetic as ever.

[Oscirus]

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Is dolan bullying players into dropping paul? lolz

[Dantares]

go head nbabrothers, this is your time

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it's gonna be payton

huh does Macri know something we don't know? Bullock should be a starter. why is it even a question if he will be in the rotation. we need his spacing.

Dennis is up and out of here. Elfrid maybe he gets traded mid season. If Frank shoots 37% from 3 or more can you really not play him? He is our best perimeter defender. with all these ballhandlers now it covers Frank's weakness of playmaking.