Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[SOUL]

Nobody is a finished project during a rookie year preseason though. I don't understand how you cite so many numbers and don't understand that these players we covet year after year have came to the NBA through the draft and all of them have improved their games to become great players in their respective roles. Whether it be superstars, star, solid starters, role players, bench guys. Only a few come in and dominate/don't hurt their team from being on the court as a rookie from the beginning like Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kareem, Magic. Even LeBron as we know him wasn't the dominant LeBron we know now (although we knew he'd be a superstar).

If guys we didn't even let on the roster like Seth Curry (undrafted/Summer League team) or Joe Harris (2nd rounder/cut after traded here) were finished products they wouldn't have sniffed the league after teams passed on them. They worked on their craft and what they could do well (shooting) and carved out roles. Now they're integral parts of teams that are going to be deep playoff teams.. so imagine how that can apply to literally any player, especially 1st round rookies that initially project to be better "talents" (when in reality, most teams would LOVE for their rookies to even reach that sort of talent).

[pepe1991]

Just read Cole led all rookies in scoring during the preseason with 55 total points, the next closest player had 45. So far so good especially since he had a rough start. Come on rookie of the year...

And the 45 point player played a bunch more minutes than Cole.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=FGA&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&PlayerExperience=Rookie&PerMode=Totals

Cole is one of few players who played 4 games, most rookies played 3 and play tonight last preseason games.

Vassell will probably finish with most points ( need to score 15, if somebody jumps him and drops 20+, mainly Edwards)
Theo Maledon will lead in PPGs but he only played 2 games (don't know his status for last game )

Between Quickley and Flynn will be decided who leads rookies in assist. Both guys played much less than Cole ( in both amount of games and amount of min per game ).

on side note, Vassell if freaking tall. I mixed him on the floor with Rudy Gay. Not your typical 6'7 in shoes, 5'11 without ones

Fact chacking. Magic are one of few teams that actually played 4 preseason games, most teams played 3. Preseason is over.

[pepe1991]

Nobody is a finished project during a rookie year preseason though. I don't understand how you cite so many numbers and don't understand that these players we covet year after year have came to the NBA through the draft and all of them have improved their games to become great players in their respective roles. Whether it be superstars, star, solid starters, role players, bench guys. Only a few come in and dominate/don't hurt their team from being on the court as a rookie from the beginning like Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kareem, Magic. Even LeBron as we know him wasn't the dominant LeBron we know now (although we knew he'd be a superstar).

If guys we didn't even let on the roster like Seth Curry (undrafted/Summer League team) or Joe Harris (2nd rounder/cut after traded here) were finished products they wouldn't have sniffed the league after teams passed on them. They worked on their craft and what they could do well (shooting) and carved out roles. Now they're integral parts of teams that are going to be deep playoff teams.. so imagine how that can apply to literally any player, especially 1st round rookies that initially project to be better "talents" (when in reality, most teams would LOVE for their rookies to even reach that sort of talent).

Most pro basketball players go through several developmental bursts .
First is before puberty, where they grasp first skills. This is where first selection of talents happen.
Second is after puberty, where they find coordination between "new" body and developing skills. This is second natural selection of talents, before college.

Last, that some players never make, is around 20-21 when they make first leap toward pros and are being coached and trained by professionals for longer period of time.

There is good reason why DNP-injury whole year rookies, always look that much better than other rookies, who are actually rookies. This is why there is ever lasting debate should player drafted year prior be viewed as rookie, and history pretty much tells you whole story. No, he should not. That kid had whole year to do nothing but prepare for nba, where other kids where jumped from college, to crappy summer league, trown into training camp without serious training, where they are being swollowed by seasoned vets who did whole process too many times to count.

Guys like Ben Simmons , Blake Griffin, Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel or some guys of "old" age like Bill Walton and Larry Bird, all missed their rookie years and they all have 1 thing in common. They DOMINATED year later. But they also have other thing in common. Non of them really improved all that much after their official "rookie" year.
Walton was career 13 ppg, who averaged 12 in his rookie year.
Bird 21 ppg rookie year---to 24 ppg for career.
Ben Simmons 15,8 ppg rookie year -16,4 for career.
Blake 22,5 ppg rookie year ----21,5 for career.
Noel 9,9 ppg as rookie- 8,0 for career.

Joel actually was better on min restriction in rookie year than probably ever after. Mainly because years of not playing allowed him to be in peak physical shape, opposite of later, being always semi injuried and dealing with constant traveling and grind of 30 mpg games and nagging injuries that follow almost every nba player.


What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be. There is simply limited age where players actually get better and learn new skills ( it's like any other skill really, it's flat out impossible to teach grown person how to speak or behave before pre existing skills at least developed a bit ... complete story for another non basketball thread ).
He didn't play organized basketball for almost 2 years and his athleticals seem to declined a bit. Being 6'7 college PF and making transition into nba is already uphill battle ( Winslow, Johnson, Derick Williams...) and this guy also had injury to overcome.
I'm not saying he can't improve at all. He can. But expecting some unexpected burst of development where he will now be player that creates own shots, dishes assists, plays pick&roll as ballhandler or anything advanced, is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

He can be best version of himself tho, but that version is obviouslly backup PF.

Seth Curry still plays as backup. Mostly because his defense was always horrendus. But guy made 325 threes at college on more than 800 attemps, it was always clear he is good shooter. It was always unclear can his shooting overcome his sucking on defense.
Same with Joe Harris. On over 600 three point attemps at college he was 41% three point shooter.
Guys like them always come down to few questions:
1) how elite their nba shot is , JJ Redick level of Nick Stauskas level
2) how terrible their defense is

[drsd]

What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be.

If Okeke develops in to a 15 mpg player that can play comb-forward minutes for five years, and has a postiutve plus/minus box-score, then he was as a solid selection at 16.

Really anything above bench-scrub is a solid pick at 16.


Yes we fans want Anthony and Okeke to develop to at least a marginal-starter level of talent. I suspect that a is not the standards the front-office hold for the expectations of these to projects.

For this year: managing their sucky-ness as a rookie is all a coach can offer such rookies.


..

[drsd]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=FGA&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&PlayerExperience=Rookie&PerMode=Totals

Anthony's 8/17 three ball really stands out !


..

[BadMofoPimp]

Nobody is a finished project during a rookie year preseason though. I don't understand how you cite so many numbers and don't understand that these players we covet year after year have came to the NBA through the draft and all of them have improved their games to become great players in their respective roles. Whether it be superstars, star, solid starters, role players, bench guys. Only a few come in and dominate/don't hurt their team from being on the court as a rookie from the beginning like Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kareem, Magic. Even LeBron as we know him wasn't the dominant LeBron we know now (although we knew he'd be a superstar).

If guys we didn't even let on the roster like Seth Curry (undrafted/Summer League team) or Joe Harris (2nd rounder/cut after traded here) were finished products they wouldn't have sniffed the league after teams passed on them. They worked on their craft and what they could do well (shooting) and carved out roles. Now they're integral parts of teams that are going to be deep playoff teams.. so imagine how that can apply to literally any player, especially 1st round rookies that initially project to be better "talents" (when in reality, most teams would LOVE for their rookies to even reach that sort of talent).

Most pro basketball players go through several developmental bursts .
First is before puberty, where they grasp first skills. This is where first selection of talents happen.
Second is after puberty, where they find coordination between "new" body and developing skills. This is second natural selection of talents, before college.

Last, that some players never make, is around 20-21 when they make first leap toward pros and are being coached and trained by professionals for longer period of time.

There is good reason why DNP-injury whole year rookies, always look that much better than other rookies, who are actually rookies. This is why there is ever lasting debate should player drafted year prior be viewed as rookie, and history pretty much tells you whole story. No, he should not. That kid had whole year to do nothing but prepare for nba, where other kids where jumped from college, to crappy summer league, trown into training camp without serious training, where they are being swollowed by seasoned vets who did whole process too many times to count.

Guys like Ben Simmons , Blake Griffin, Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel or some guys of "old" age like Bill Walton and Larry Bird, all missed their rookie years and they all have 1 thing in common. They DOMINATED year later. But they also have other thing in common. Non of them really improved all that much after their official "rookie" year.
Walton was career 13 ppg, who averaged 12 in his rookie year.
Bird 21 ppg rookie year---to 24 ppg for career.
Ben Simmons 15,8 ppg rookie year -16,4 for career.
Blake 22,5 ppg rookie year ----21,5 for career.
Noel 9,9 ppg as rookie- 8,0 for career.

Joel actually was better on min restriction in rookie year than probably ever after. Mainly because years of not playing allowed him to be in peak physical shape, opposite of later, being always semi injuried and dealing with constant traveling and grind of 30 mpg games and nagging injuries that follow almost every nba player.


What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be. There is simply limited age where players actually get better and learn new skills ( it's like any other skill really, it's flat out impossible to teach grown person how to speak or behave before pre existing skills at least developed a bit ... complete story for another non basketball thread ).
He didn't play organized basketball for almost 2 years and his athleticals seem to declined a bit. Being 6'7 college PF and making transition into nba is already uphill battle ( Winslow, Johnson, Derick Williams...) and this guy also had injury to overcome.
I'm not saying he can't improve at all. He can. But expecting some unexpected burst of development where he will now be player that creates own shots, dishes assists, plays pick&roll as ballhandler or anything advanced, is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

He can be best version of himself tho, but that version is obviouslly backup PF.

Seth Curry still plays as backup. Mostly because his defense was always horrendus. But guy made 325 threes at college on more than 800 attemps, it was always clear he is good shooter. It was always unclear can his shooting overcome his sucking on defense.
Same with Joe Harris. On over 600 three point attemps at college he was 41% three point shooter.
Guys like them always come down to few questions:
1) how elite their nba shot is , JJ Redick level of Nick Stauskas level
2) how terrible their defense is

I counter with some players develop into stars instead of being born one right out of college

Kawhi Leonard 7.9ppg as a rookie 18.7ppg career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo 6.8ppg 41% shooting as a rookie, 20.1ppg 52.6% shooting as career.

Dennis Rodman the 23 year old scrawny rookie 4.8rpg to 13.1rpg career

I could go on a couple hundred more but you should get the idea. It is just as rare for kids to be born stars than developed into one.

[pepe1991]

Nobody is a finished project during a rookie year preseason though. I don't understand how you cite so many numbers and don't understand that these players we covet year after year have came to the NBA through the draft and all of them have improved their games to become great players in their respective roles. Whether it be superstars, star, solid starters, role players, bench guys. Only a few come in and dominate/don't hurt their team from being on the court as a rookie from the beginning like Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kareem, Magic. Even LeBron as we know him wasn't the dominant LeBron we know now (although we knew he'd be a superstar).

If guys we didn't even let on the roster like Seth Curry (undrafted/Summer League team) or Joe Harris (2nd rounder/cut after traded here) were finished products they wouldn't have sniffed the league after teams passed on them. They worked on their craft and what they could do well (shooting) and carved out roles. Now they're integral parts of teams that are going to be deep playoff teams.. so imagine how that can apply to literally any player, especially 1st round rookies that initially project to be better "talents" (when in reality, most teams would LOVE for their rookies to even reach that sort of talent).

Most pro basketball players go through several developmental bursts .
First is before puberty, where they grasp first skills. This is where first selection of talents happen.
Second is after puberty, where they find coordination between "new" body and developing skills. This is second natural selection of talents, before college.

Last, that some players never make, is around 20-21 when they make first leap toward pros and are being coached and trained by professionals for longer period of time.

There is good reason why DNP-injury whole year rookies, always look that much better than other rookies, who are actually rookies. This is why there is ever lasting debate should player drafted year prior be viewed as rookie, and history pretty much tells you whole story. No, he should not. That kid had whole year to do nothing but prepare for nba, where other kids where jumped from college, to crappy summer league, trown into training camp without serious training, where they are being swollowed by seasoned vets who did whole process too many times to count.

Guys like Ben Simmons , Blake Griffin, Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel or some guys of "old" age like Bill Walton and Larry Bird, all missed their rookie years and they all have 1 thing in common. They DOMINATED year later. But they also have other thing in common. Non of them really improved all that much after their official "rookie" year.
Walton was career 13 ppg, who averaged 12 in his rookie year.
Bird 21 ppg rookie year---to 24 ppg for career.
Ben Simmons 15,8 ppg rookie year -16,4 for career.
Blake 22,5 ppg rookie year ----21,5 for career.
Noel 9,9 ppg as rookie- 8,0 for career.

Joel actually was better on min restriction in rookie year than probably ever after. Mainly because years of not playing allowed him to be in peak physical shape, opposite of later, being always semi injuried and dealing with constant traveling and grind of 30 mpg games and nagging injuries that follow almost every nba player.


What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be. There is simply limited age where players actually get better and learn new skills ( it's like any other skill really, it's flat out impossible to teach grown person how to speak or behave before pre existing skills at least developed a bit ... complete story for another non basketball thread ).
He didn't play organized basketball for almost 2 years and his athleticals seem to declined a bit. Being 6'7 college PF and making transition into nba is already uphill battle ( Winslow, Johnson, Derick Williams...) and this guy also had injury to overcome.
I'm not saying he can't improve at all. He can. But expecting some unexpected burst of development where he will now be player that creates own shots, dishes assists, plays pick&roll as ballhandler or anything advanced, is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

He can be best version of himself tho, but that version is obviouslly backup PF.

Seth Curry still plays as backup. Mostly because his defense was always horrendus. But guy made 325 threes at college on more than 800 attemps, it was always clear he is good shooter. It was always unclear can his shooting overcome his sucking on defense.
Same with Joe Harris. On over 600 three point attemps at college he was 41% three point shooter.
Guys like them always come down to few questions:
1) how elite their nba shot is , JJ Redick level of Nick Stauskas level
2) how terrible their defense is

I counter with some players develop into stars instead of being born one right out of college

Kawhi Leonard 7.9ppg as a rookie 18.7ppg career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo 6.8ppg 41% shooting as a rookie, 20.1ppg 52.6% shooting as career.

Dennis Rodman the 23 year old scrawny rookie 4.8rpg to 13.1rpg career

I could go on a couple hundred more but you should get the idea. It is just as rare for kids to be born stars than developed into one.

Giannis , in season when he was Okeke's current age, finished his 4th nba season ( on 23 ppg, 8,5 rpg and 5,4 apg)
Kawhi Leonard being current Okeke's age, already won finals MVP award and spent 3 years in nba

Chuma Okeke ( drafted in 2019 ) and Mo Bamba ( drafted in 2018) both were, by birth date, eligiable for draft in 2017.

Most people don't even know that Fultz is actually 15 days younger than Bamba, who was, despite that, college frashman. And i'm not that familiar with american schools but i remember i think Xat mentioning something about him being transfered.

Anyway, back to Okeke, players of his age are playing 3rd year. He is rookie.

I don't really know what Rodman developed over time ? His fashion ? Guy was same player from day to last day in basketball . Hardest worker... great rebounder.... that's pretty much his whole basketball existence.

[zaymon]

Most pro basketball players go through several developmental bursts .
First is before puberty, where they grasp first skills. This is where first selection of talents happen.
Second is after puberty, where they find coordination between "new" body and developing skills. This is second natural selection of talents, before college.

Last, that some players never make, is around 20-21 when they make first leap toward pros and are being coached and trained by professionals for longer period of time.

There is good reason why DNP-injury whole year rookies, always look that much better than other rookies, who are actually rookies. This is why there is ever lasting debate should player drafted year prior be viewed as rookie, and history pretty much tells you whole story. No, he should not. That kid had whole year to do nothing but prepare for nba, where other kids where jumped from college, to crappy summer league, trown into training camp without serious training, where they are being swollowed by seasoned vets who did whole process too many times to count.

Guys like Ben Simmons , Blake Griffin, Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel or some guys of "old" age like Bill Walton and Larry Bird, all missed their rookie years and they all have 1 thing in common. They DOMINATED year later. But they also have other thing in common. Non of them really improved all that much after their official "rookie" year.
Walton was career 13 ppg, who averaged 12 in his rookie year.
Bird 21 ppg rookie year---to 24 ppg for career.
Ben Simmons 15,8 ppg rookie year -16,4 for career.
Blake 22,5 ppg rookie year ----21,5 for career.
Noel 9,9 ppg as rookie- 8,0 for career.

Joel actually was better on min restriction in rookie year than probably ever after. Mainly because years of not playing allowed him to be in peak physical shape, opposite of later, being always semi injuried and dealing with constant traveling and grind of 30 mpg games and nagging injuries that follow almost every nba player.


What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be. There is simply limited age where players actually get better and learn new skills ( it's like any other skill really, it's flat out impossible to teach grown person how to speak or behave before pre existing skills at least developed a bit ... complete story for another non basketball thread ).
He didn't play organized basketball for almost 2 years and his athleticals seem to declined a bit. Being 6'7 college PF and making transition into nba is already uphill battle ( Winslow, Johnson, Derick Williams...) and this guy also had injury to overcome.
I'm not saying he can't improve at all. He can. But expecting some unexpected burst of development where he will now be player that creates own shots, dishes assists, plays pick&roll as ballhandler or anything advanced, is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

He can be best version of himself tho, but that version is obviouslly backup PF.

Seth Curry still plays as backup. Mostly because his defense was always horrendus. But guy made 325 threes at college on more than 800 attemps, it was always clear he is good shooter. It was always unclear can his shooting overcome his sucking on defense.
Same with Joe Harris. On over 600 three point attemps at college he was 41% three point shooter.
Guys like them always come down to few questions:
1) how elite their nba shot is , JJ Redick level of Nick Stauskas level
2) how terrible their defense is

I counter with some players develop into stars instead of being born one right out of college

Kawhi Leonard 7.9ppg as a rookie 18.7ppg career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo 6.8ppg 41% shooting as a rookie, 20.1ppg 52.6% shooting as career.

Dennis Rodman the 23 year old scrawny rookie 4.8rpg to 13.1rpg career

I could go on a couple hundred more but you should get the idea. It is just as rare for kids to be born stars than developed into one.

Giannis , in season when he was Okeke's current age, finished his 4th nba season ( on 23 ppg, 8,5 rpg and 5,4 apg)
Kawhi Leonard being current Okeke's age, already won finals MVP award and spent 3 years in nba

Chuma Okeke ( drafted in 2019 ) and Mo Bamba ( drafted in 2018) both were, by birth date, eligiable for draft in 2017.

Most people don't even know that Fultz is actually 15 days younger than Bamba, who was, despite that, college frashman. And i'm not that familiar with american schools but i remember i think Xat mentioning something about him being transfered.

Anyway, back to Okeke, players of his age are playing 3rd year. He is rookie.

I don't really know what Rodman developed over time ? His fashion ? Guy was same player from day to last day in basketball . Hardest worker... great rebounder.... that's pretty much his whole basketball existence.

Cmon pepe you know there are exemples for both sides, you just showed one side

Chancey Billups
Steve Nash
Kyle Lowry
Doug Christie
Ben Wallace

[MoMM]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

[basketballRob]

Most pro basketball players go through several developmental bursts .
First is before puberty, where they grasp first skills. This is where first selection of talents happen.
Second is after puberty, where they find coordination between "new" body and developing skills. This is second natural selection of talents, before college.

Last, that some players never make, is around 20-21 when they make first leap toward pros and are being coached and trained by professionals for longer period of time.

There is good reason why DNP-injury whole year rookies, always look that much better than other rookies, who are actually rookies. This is why there is ever lasting debate should player drafted year prior be viewed as rookie, and history pretty much tells you whole story. No, he should not. That kid had whole year to do nothing but prepare for nba, where other kids where jumped from college, to crappy summer league, trown into training camp without serious training, where they are being swollowed by seasoned vets who did whole process too many times to count.

Guys like Ben Simmons , Blake Griffin, Joel Embiid, Nerlens Noel or some guys of "old" age like Bill Walton and Larry Bird, all missed their rookie years and they all have 1 thing in common. They DOMINATED year later. But they also have other thing in common. Non of them really improved all that much after their official "rookie" year.
Walton was career 13 ppg, who averaged 12 in his rookie year.
Bird 21 ppg rookie year---to 24 ppg for career.
Ben Simmons 15,8 ppg rookie year -16,4 for career.
Blake 22,5 ppg rookie year ----21,5 for career.
Noel 9,9 ppg as rookie- 8,0 for career.

Joel actually was better on min restriction in rookie year than probably ever after. Mainly because years of not playing allowed him to be in peak physical shape, opposite of later, being always semi injuried and dealing with constant traveling and grind of 30 mpg games and nagging injuries that follow almost every nba player.


What does it all have to do with Okeke? Well , for start, guy is 22. His last "burst" of potential development never happend. It was year wasted on recovering from ACL tear. Today as player he is probably 80% of what he will ever be. There is simply limited age where players actually get better and learn new skills ( it's like any other skill really, it's flat out impossible to teach grown person how to speak or behave before pre existing skills at least developed a bit ... complete story for another non basketball thread ).
He didn't play organized basketball for almost 2 years and his athleticals seem to declined a bit. Being 6'7 college PF and making transition into nba is already uphill battle ( Winslow, Johnson, Derick Williams...) and this guy also had injury to overcome.
I'm not saying he can't improve at all. He can. But expecting some unexpected burst of development where he will now be player that creates own shots, dishes assists, plays pick&roll as ballhandler or anything advanced, is unrealistic and wishful thinking.

He can be best version of himself tho, but that version is obviouslly backup PF.

Seth Curry still plays as backup. Mostly because his defense was always horrendus. But guy made 325 threes at college on more than 800 attemps, it was always clear he is good shooter. It was always unclear can his shooting overcome his sucking on defense.
Same with Joe Harris. On over 600 three point attemps at college he was 41% three point shooter.
Guys like them always come down to few questions:
1) how elite their nba shot is , JJ Redick level of Nick Stauskas level
2) how terrible their defense is

I counter with some players develop into stars instead of being born one right out of college

Kawhi Leonard 7.9ppg as a rookie 18.7ppg career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo 6.8ppg 41% shooting as a rookie, 20.1ppg 52.6% shooting as career.

Dennis Rodman the 23 year old scrawny rookie 4.8rpg to 13.1rpg career

I could go on a couple hundred more but you should get the idea. It is just as rare for kids to be born stars than developed into one.

Giannis , in season when he was Okeke's current age, finished his 4th nba season ( on 23 ppg, 8,5 rpg and 5,4 apg)
Kawhi Leonard being current Okeke's age, already won finals MVP award and spent 3 years in nba

Chuma Okeke ( drafted in 2019 ) and Mo Bamba ( drafted in 2018) both were, by birth date, eligiable for draft in 2017.

Most people don't even know that Fultz is actually 15 days younger than Bamba, who was, despite that, college frashman. And i'm not that familiar with american schools but i remember i think Xat mentioning something about him being transfered.

Anyway, back to Okeke, players of his age are playing 3rd year. He is rookie.

I don't really know what Rodman developed over time ? His fashion ? Guy was same player from day to last day in basketball . Hardest worker... great rebounder.... that's pretty much his whole basketball existence.

You act like you're evaluating Chuma after he's played 2 years, not 40 minutes.

So Toppin is going to be a bad player, because he shot 379 and he's 5 months older than Chuma?

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[Bensational]

I'll make a hot take, big call.

By the end of the season the Magic will be seen as Cole's team.

[pepe1991]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

Depending on age, don't you think?
Not all rookies are 19 years old boys who don't even shave yet. Prigioni arrived in nba being almost 36


Put just look for example Okeke and Pokusevski.
Okeke was born mid 1998, Pokusevski almost 2002. There is 3 and half years gap.
Pokusevski will already be in nba for 4 years when he gets to Okekes current age

[SOUL]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

Depending on age, don't you think?
Not all rookies are 19 years old boys who don't even shave yet. Prigioni arrived in nba being almost 36


Put just look for example Okeke and Pokusevski.
Okeke was born mid 1998, Pokusevski almost 2002. There is 3 and half years gap.
Pokusevski will already be in nba for 4 years when he gets to Okekes current age

I think you're *technically* right in some areas in that a player isn't going to turn into a completely sort of diff player usually, but they can become the best versions of themselves with time. Your theories also doesn't factor in a few things:

1. Situation. A player may be drafted to a bad situation where they get no minutes. Even if they do "all the right things", there are simply capable/better vets in front of them.

2. Internal improvement and drive. You can't tell me after Jimmy Butler's first year that he would improve to be what he is now. You can't say guys like Ben Wallace or Steve Nash or Chauncey Billups were finished when they came in the league. You'd be surprised

3. How the NBA landscape changes. A guy like Duncan Robinson or Seth Curry may not have much value even 5-10 years ago, but now they are vital pieces to a team that needs spacing. Hell, even "tweeners" are going extinct because people play so small that it doesn't matter if you have 2 small guards or two small forwards if the other team has similar size.

[Optimus_Steel]

Lol we have had such a dark cloud hovering over this team that we have become too cynical when it comes to rookies. Given the spot they were picked they look like skilled players, that's a major plus. Get the sense some fans are sad we didn't tank so they just moan about our rookies because they aren't lottery picks.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using RealGM mobile app

[RookieStar]

Bottom Line... we were picking the 15th pick... outside of Giannis, Kawhi, Butler who were in that range.. were we really expecting a franchise level talent?

Cole, if he maintains this production, is alreafy a great value for the 15th.

[Xatticus]

Bottom Line... we were picking the 15th pick... outside of Giannis, Kawhi, Butler who were in that range.. were we really expecting a franchise level talent?

Cole, if he maintains this production, is alreafy a great value for the 15th.

His value to where he was taken is of little consequence to me because that ignores what led the team to drafting in that slot. My expectation is that this franchise becomes competitive again. The question comes down to whether or not a player can contribute to that and at what cost. I think Anthony represents a worthwhile use of a roster slot, which is more than I can say for at least half of the players that comprise the remainder of the roster at present. I'm not as enthused by Anthony's prospects as many around here, but I understand it. A starving man doesn't need a four-course meal from a fine-dining establishment to start salivating. A can of Chef Boyardee will suffice.

For me, Anthony is a prospect. I don't see him as a high-ceiling prospect for a variety of reasons, but it is pleasant to see that we are committing some small portion of our roster to players that might possess legitimate value down the road when there at least exists the possibility that we won't be whipping the flesh from our horse in hopes of a mid-pack finish, even though I expect that we will be doing precisely that for as long as our current front office is in place.

[RookieStar]

Bottom Line... we were picking the 15th pick... outside of Giannis, Kawhi, Butler who were in that range.. were we really expecting a franchise level talent?

Cole, if he maintains this production, is alreafy a great value for the 15th.

His value to where he was taken is of little consequence to me because that ignores what led the team to drafting in that slot. My expectation is that this franchise becomes competitive again. The question comes down to whether or not a player can contribute to that and at what cost. I think Anthony represents a worthwhile use of a roster slot, which is more than I can say for at least half of the players that comprise the remainder of the roster at present. I'm not as enthused by Anthony's prospects as many around here, but I understand it. A starving man doesn't need a four-course meal from a fine-dining establishment to start salivating. A can of Chef Boyardee will suffice.

For me, Anthony is a prospect. I don't see him as a high-ceiling prospect for a variety of reasons, but it is pleasant to see that we are committing some small portion of our roster to players that might possess legitimate value down the road when there at least exists the possibility that we won't be whipping the flesh from our horse in hopes of a mid-pack finish, even though I expect that we will be doing precisely that for as long as our current front office is in place.

Actually for me, I do attach a big value to where prospect/rookie is taken because the higher number your pick ( meaning taken after lotto and up to 2nd round ). A mid teens pick would.normally be a 7th/8th bench role player that contributes "average" to either offense and defense but rarely both. If that pick cintributes above averagr to either than thats great value for the spot, if he contributes elite then wow... If he contribites elite to BOTH offense and defense.. then thats the jackpot ( giannis kawhi butler )

But yeah, i agree with your view that cole is a prospect with not a high ceiling. But it is refreshing that we are finally picking for offense and not just long athletic defnesive and offensively challenge players.

[VFX]

Put it this way, Jordan Clarkson would be a breath of fresh air off the bench for this Orlando roster... That would be the comp I’d give Anthony. Neither great nor terrible, but a guy that can just get buckets that can maybe start in some situations.

[MaKiaVeLi7]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

Yes, they are really into it, no joke.
Some kind of fun...hmm...must be, I guess

[pepe1991]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

Depending on age, don't you think?
Not all rookies are 19 years old boys who don't even shave yet. Prigioni arrived in nba being almost 36


Put just look for example Okeke and Pokusevski.
Okeke was born mid 1998, Pokusevski almost 2002. There is 3 and half years gap.
Pokusevski will already be in nba for 4 years when he gets to Okekes current age

I think you're *technically* right in some areas in that a player isn't going to turn into a completely sort of diff player usually, but they can become the best versions of themselves with time. Your theories also doesn't factor in a few things:

1. Situation. A player may be drafted to a bad situation where they get no minutes. Even if they do "all the right things", there are simply capable/better vets in front of them.

2. Internal improvement and drive. You can't tell me after Jimmy Butler's first year that he would improve to be what he is now. You can't say guys like Ben Wallace or Steve Nash or Chauncey Billups were finished when they came in the league. You'd be surprised

3. How the NBA landscape changes. A guy like Duncan Robinson or Seth Curry may not have much value even 5-10 years ago, but now they are vital pieces to a team that needs spacing. Hell, even "tweeners" are going extinct because people play so small that it doesn't matter if you have 2 small guards or two small forwards if the other team has similar size.

Butler is interesting case non less.
But with Batler is was more of where he landed.

So guy as frashman was crappy player, but next 2 years at college he is very good player (15,5 ppg, 6 rpg, 2 apg).
Goes to Chicago who is comming off 62 wins season, under non other than Tom Thibodeau, who at that point is playing Loul Deng 39 min a game. That crap required low-suit from Deng family, that guy tried to kill him.
So in his rookie year they have 50-16 record, i think best in nba at times. Tom is still killing poor deng and now guy plays even more, 39,5 min a game. Naturally under that conditions, Butler can't crack into 8 and half men rotation that Tom is playing.
This is not a joke, he really played 8 men rotation in regular season ...

Next year, year two for Butler ( 2012-13) Rose is already hurt ( shocking... ) , Deng declining ( everybody saw that comming ) and new Tom's toy to squeeze is Butler who is now regular rotation member that plays 26 mpg off bench.
This year year two of Butler who finished that year with 9 games with at least 18 points, including 4 games with 20 or more points. He was already pretty damn good, but not given green light to shoot all the time (yet).

2013-14, 3rd year of Jimmy, Tom's favorite vicim Loul Deng career is pretty much over, but gotta go out with a bang, 37,4 mpg played.
Butler is now starter and plays at average 39 min a game. In regular season.

so outside his rookie year, where Tom was too busy destroying career of Deng, Butler was their part time starter, regular rotation player in year two. By year 3 Butler was alredy slotted into Tom's meatgrinder.

I can't wrap my head around idea how that guy still gets nba jobs. Nobody ruined more careers than him. He is defacto one of main reasons why first Rose injury happend. In garbage time in playoff game he was running him into a ground where any caoch with sense of logic would bench every starter. What he did to Deng is flat out crime.