Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

[Leslie Forman]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.



https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

[PrimzyBulls81]

AK doing the right thing..

[fleet]

If he pays well this season and they end up matching an offer of 18.1 year one with 8% decreases the next 3 seasons, I am great with that. First he has to play well.

No one is anti-Lauri; at least I am not. But he hasn't done anything to earn 18 mil a year yet.

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Did Fultz? Isaac? Kennard?

A contract is about what you will produce, not what you have produced.

The 18.1 assumed a rising contract. It would start around 22 for a declining one that equals 4/80

My contract didn't. And no, you generally get paid for what you have done, with the expectation you will keep doing it. If it was your way, Lavine would be getting the max.

Both of the quoted expert assessments on here talk about "still believing he is better" than he has played. That's ok for analysts. Horrible approach for a GM.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

AK probably doesn’t think he’s very good.

[cjbulls]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.


https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

So what? He’s an unbiased opinion. And presents a way that teams may value free agents. I’m not saying he’s right, but the info is interesting and has merit to understanding the market generally.

He was also within a few million on Fultz, White, Kennard, and Anunoby

[chefo]

I'm of the opinion that I'd rather pay stud Lauri 25 per than pay timid Lauri 20... so if I couldn't get the 'You underwhelmed last year, so I'd like to have you for 17 per on a 2+1 discount deal', you'd better show me you're worth more. I'm with AK here. If Lauri kicks posterior, he'll be worth his rookie max and then some. I can easily see that play out.

If he doesn't, he probably will not figure in their long term plans, unless he takes a major pay cut from the above.

I don't think Lauri's motivation is money per say (based on reports he can't fathom how much money he makes currently on the rookie scale), so I'd like to see him play pissed off. If that's what it takes to piss him off, all the better. We have not had a Lauri with an attitude sighting in 1.5 years.

If he sulks because he thinks the Bulls don't want him... maybe, he's not cut to be paid like a first/second banana, no matter his natural talents.

[Stratmaster]

Did Fultz? Isaac? Kennard?

A contract is about what you will produce, not what you have produced.

The 18.1 assumed a rising contract. It would start around 22 for a declining one that equals 4/80

My contract didn't. And no, you generally get paid for what you have done, with the expectation you will keep doing it. If it was your way, Lavine would be getting the max.

Both of the quoted expert assessments on here talk about "still believing he is better" than he has played. That's ok for analysts. Horrible approach for a GM.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

So the Bulls should bring back MJ to a max, right? Pip too!

None of the contracts signed today were based on the guy maintaining what he has done.

That may be the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on here and that is saying quite a lot. Thanks for the discussion. C ya

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[cjbulls]

My contract didn't. And no, you generally get paid for what you have done, with the expectation you will keep doing it. If it was your way, Lavine would be getting the max.

Both of the quoted expert assessments on here talk about "still believing he is better" than he has played. That's ok for analysts. Horrible approach for a GM.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

So the Bulls should bring back MJ to a max, right? Pip too!

None of the contracts signed today were based on the guy maintaining what he has done.

That may be the most ridiculous response I have ever seen on here and that is saying quite a lot. Thanks for the discussion. C ya

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Hey whatever it takes to show you when your off base. Glad it worked for you.

[DroseReturnChi]

I'm of the opinion that I'd rather pay stud Lauri 25 per than pay timid Lauri 20... so if I couldn't get the 'You underwhelmed last year, so I'd like to have you for 17 per on a 2+1 discount deal', you'd better show me you're worth more. I'm with AK here. If Lauri kicks posterior, he'll be worth his rookie max and then some. I can easily see that play out.

If he doesn't, he probably will not figure in their long term plans, unless he takes a major pay cut from the above.

I don't think Lauri's motivation is money per say (based on reports he can't fathom how much money he makes currently on the rookie scale), so I'd like to see him play pissed off. If that's what it takes to piss him off, all the better. We have not had a Lauri with an attitude sighting in 1.5 years.

If he sulks because he thinks the Bulls don't want him... maybe, he's not cut to be paid like a first/second banana, no matter his natural talents.

Why would you pay him 25 when you could pay him 17-20? Theres no reason to overpay him and waste cap space.
No wonder deals like Felicio are common in this franchise. Bulls still havent learned their lesson from Butler.

[RedBulls23]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.



https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

He's not even a stat based guy, but just a guy that believes heavily in his own stat, PER.

[ZOMG]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.



https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

He's not even a stat based guy, but just a guy that believes heavily in his own stat, PER.

It's been like 5 seconds since I last heard someone here using Lauri's PER as proof as to why he's not worth a 15 million dollar contract.

[RedBulls23]

Did Fultz? Isaac? Kennard?

A contract is about what you will produce, not what you have produced.

The 18.1 assumed a rising contract. It would start around 22 for a declining one that equals 4/80

My contract didn't. And no, you generally get paid for what you have done, with the expectation you will keep doing it. If it was your way, Lavine would be getting the max.

Both of the quoted expert assessments on here talk about "still believing he is better" than he has played. That's ok for analysts. Horrible approach for a GM.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

AK probably doesn’t think he’s very good.

Which probably further proves that we shouldn't believe any reports coming out about what AK thinks about this roster.

So much for the reports that Lauri was a considered high priority for AKME

[RedBulls23]

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

He's not even a stat based guy, but just a guy that believes heavily in his own stat, PER.

It's been like 5 seconds since I last heard someone here using Lauri's PER as proof as to why he's not worth a 15 million dollar contract.

PER is an outdated stat.

PIPM, RPM, Raptor are better overall. Lauri doesn't really stand out in those.

We'll see what he does this coming season.

[Leslie Forman]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.



https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

Hollinger is an outdated hack who finally got his opportunity to work in the league and was completely, utterly useless.

He's not even a stat based guy, but just a guy that believes heavily in his own stat, PER.

Yeah that's the thing, his own time in the league basically proves his own statistical methods are completely worthless in actual practice and yet people still value his opinions, as if they're worthy of anything more than wiping your ass with.

[Stratmaster]

He's not even a stat based guy, but just a guy that believes heavily in his own stat, PER.

It's been like 5 seconds since I last heard someone here using Lauri's PER as proof as to why he's not worth a 15 million dollar contract.

PER is an outdated stat.

PIPM, RPM, Raptor are better overall. Lauri doesn't really stand out in those.

We'll see what he does this coming season.

There was a day not so long ago when PER was the holy grail of stats on this board and when a few of us tried to explain it wasn't we were told we didn't understand it and didn't know basketball.

Sigh.

Good times.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[coldfish]

It's been like 5 seconds since I last heard someone here using Lauri's PER as proof as to why he's not worth a 15 million dollar contract.

PER is an outdated stat.

PIPM, RPM, Raptor are better overall. Lauri doesn't really stand out in those.

We'll see what he does this coming season.

There was a day not so long ago when PER was the holy grail of stats on this board and when a few of us tried to explain it wasn't we were told we didn't understand it and didn't know basketball.

Sigh.

Good times.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

If there was a single number you could boil a player down to and winning or losing was determined by the sum of those numbers on your team, then being a GM would be easy and being a fan would be boring.

IMO, PER has some value in that it quickly sums a bunch of common stats and adjusts for minutes and pace. Its easier to type out a 15.2PER than 15.3p 4.6r 4.1r 43%fg 36%3p in 31mpg. It doesn't take into account defense much at all or the little things like moving without the ball, setting good screens, etc.

[RedBulls23]

It's been like 5 seconds since I last heard someone here using Lauri's PER as proof as to why he's not worth a 15 million dollar contract.

PER is an outdated stat.

PIPM, RPM, Raptor are better overall. Lauri doesn't really stand out in those.

We'll see what he does this coming season.

There was a day not so long ago when PER was the holy grail of stats on this board and when a few of us tried to explain it wasn't we were told we didn't understand it and didn't know basketball.

Sigh.

Good times.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

No single stat is the holy grail. That's not how data works. You don't just look at one set of numbers.

When you look at multiple different stats/data points and they tell you the same thing, then I don't know why you would just ignore that.

Biggest reason PER isn't as good anymore as the new stats is because it doesn't factor in defense.

[RedBulls23]

PER is an outdated stat.

PIPM, RPM, Raptor are better overall. Lauri doesn't really stand out in those.

We'll see what he does this coming season.

There was a day not so long ago when PER was the holy grail of stats on this board and when a few of us tried to explain it wasn't we were told we didn't understand it and didn't know basketball.

Sigh.

Good times.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

If there was a single number you could boil a player down to and winning or losing was determined by the sum of those numbers on your team, then being a GM would be easy and being a fan would be boring.

IMO, PER has some value in that it quickly sums a bunch of common stats and adjusts for minutes and pace. Its easier to type out a 15.2PER than 15.3p 4.6r 4.1r 43%fg 36%3p in 31mpg. It doesn't take into account defense much at all or the little things like moving without the ball, setting good screens, etc.

Yeah, Per doesn't take into account for defense, but the other stats I listed do. That's why PER is outdated.

[Indomitable]

I mean I'd do 20 bucks, 20 million? God no.

Did Lauri piss in your morning frosties? Your hate speech is starting to get old, just up in the same league with the dude who hated Sato with a passion (thank Lord that dude isn't around anymore spreading his bile in all threads). I for one would be happy if you could tone down the level of poop going through your keyboard.

He has logic on his side. Lauri being 7 0 ft is not an advantage for him. He has shown nothing special.

[Indomitable]

The only person I’ve seen analyze this RFA class is Hollinger (former Grizzlies exec and stats-based analyst). His numbers-based analysis pegged Lauri’s value at 18.1, which is interesting to me only because I would think numbers wouldn’t favor him.

Lauri Markkanen, Chicago — $18,177,306

I still think Markkanen is a better player than we saw from him last season, although the injury situation is getting a bit concerning. Nonetheless, this price feels eminently fair. On a four-year deal it would pay Markkanen just north of $80 million. He’s young enough to provide some upside that he’ll outrun this contract, and the downside seems limited by the fact that stretch bigs aren’t going out of style any time soon.

Also, note that the Bulls’ cap sheet is clean enough that they should almost certainly do a declining money deal with Markkanen, paying him a big 2021-22 salary but with 8 percent year-to-year decreases.

https://theathletic.com/2194510/2020/11/13/contract-extensions-what-bam-tatum-fox-and-rest-of-class-of-2017-are-worth/?amp

This is the genius who thought paying no knees Parson a near max deal.

[Indomitable]

Kennard has genuine upside. He has a higher ceiling than Lauri.

There are 60 yr olds with better knees and lateral quickness then Kennard.