Lakers Preseason Thread: Gm 4 vs Suns: 12/18 7:30pm PST

[lazybatman]

Don't bring up him being played as a PF for his poor ball handling bro. It's not the damn 90s. If he wants to dribble, he's gotta take care of the ball - PERIOD!

The point I'm making is that shouldn't he be expected to be working on those traits(ball handling, strength, shooting, decision making and defensive technique) improving in the off season and during the season. I'm questioning his work ethic, his drive to be better, to be great? He just hasn't improved one bit on those fatal flaws in his game. Compare him to a way less skilled Caruso and THT and their trajectory of growth during the same time. I'm absolutely clamoring for Caruso to get starter minutes and THT to get at least 15-18 mins/game. Kuz, on the other hand, has regressed from a player who showed a lot of offensive potential, to a borderline liability who wants a big payday that he doesn't deserve.

Lebron & Kobe didn't become great by posing for photos.. they are probably two of the most hard working players in any sport. No short cuts.

I think Vogel just might start him as a guard with Schroeder this year, if Wes doesn't impress enough. They should wanna give him as many minutes as possible for multiple reasons -
- to find out more about him before they pay him at the end of the season, since he sounds pretty content to not re-sign on the terms offered to him, based on his interviews in the past week
- to simply give him more opportunity to prove himself, since a long 3-D wing is theee most rare and precious commodity in the NBA today. It is in the Lakers' interest to see him develop into an efficient 15-17 ppg dude, who can defend well. He will rightfully command a 18-20m/Y contract that he thinks he already deserves.
- Worst case and most likely scenario - inflate his numbers / value for a possible trade down the line, cos we don't wanna pay him.

not the 90's? ok then give me a list of natural PF's who improved on their handles the past 15 years or so? Kevin Love? Nance Jr?Markkanen? who? even the old vet SGs like KCP, Danny Green don't have great handles.
You mentioned Lebron and Kobe don't pose for photos, ok, NOBODY can measure up to them, I just wonder how you felt about Shaq gaining weight, making movies and rap albums while failing to improve on his FT shooting. And btw, how sure are you that he didn't work on his game? Sure he'll make the dumb pass and fail to rotate occasionally but the guy has been spotting open teammates and has improved on his defensive stance as was showed by the video I shared. The only glaring weakness right now is his consistency in 3pt shooting. Fatal flaw? really? you really think Vogel would put up with that? He put Cook and Daniels in his dog house, which could have displayed that Rob was a fool in signing them, which shows, the would make decisions on what's best for the team.

So you think he's fine the way he is? 11th man on this team does his talent justice? Would you really want him on court instead of anyone other than Cook, Dud & Mckinnie in the clutch? Even his new deal is based on potential, cos he was in no way, shape or form = KCP last year.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that Shaq, Kobe and Lebron had a godly level of talent, but he can be as good as Zack Lavine / Aaron Gordon level. I don't understand you defending his lack work ethic mate?

Some of those things can be improved if he puts in the work over one summer. Ball handling & strength are the simplest / most straightforward of the lot. If he can confidently drive in and learns a couple of new moves to beat his defender, he's got great finishing touch to add an easy 8-10 points a game with that.

[tamaraw08]

the 90's? ok then give me a list of natural PF's who improved on their handles the past 15 years or so? Kevin Love? Nance Jr?Markkanen? who? even the old vet SGs like KCP, Danny Green don't have great handles.
You mentioned Lebron and Kobe don't pose for photos, ok, NOBODY can measure up to them, I just wonder how you felt about Shaq gaining weight, making movies and rap albums while failing to improve on his FT shooting. And btw, how sure are you that he didn't work on his game? Sure he'll make the dumb pass and fail to rotate occasionally but the guy has been spotting open teammates and has improved on his defensive stance as was showed by the video I shared. The only glaring weakness right now is his consistency in 3pt shooting. Fatal flaw? really? you really think Vogel would put up with that? He put Cook and Daniels in his dog house, which could have displayed that Rob was a fool in signing them, which shows, the would make decisions on what's best for the team.

So you think he's fine the way he is? 11th man on this team does his talent justice? Would you really want him on court instead of anyone other than Cook, Dud & Mckinnie in the clutch? Even his new deal is based on potential, cos he was in no way, shape or form = KCP last year.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that Shaq, Kobe and Lebron had a godly level of talent, but he can be as good as Zack Lavine / Aaron Gordon level. I don't understand you defending his lack work ethic mate?

Some of those things can be improved if he puts in the work over one summer. Ball handling & strength are the simplest / most straightforward of the lot. If he can confidently drive in and learns a couple of new moves to beat his defender, he's got great finishing touch to add an easy 8-10 points a game with that.

We can just agree to disagree. You said before you appreciated “10x” his hard work and yet this lack of work ethic comment. Actually, I felt Rob might have given him more than he deserves but hell, who am I to question this guy who seemed to make all the right moves in the off-season.
Aaron Gordon and Lavine have their share of flaws and I really don’t think they would have been better alternatives esp Zach’s defense or lack there off imo.

[lazybatman]

We can just agree to disagree. You said before you appreciated “10x” his hard work and yet this lack of work ethic comment. Actually, I felt Rob might have given him more than he deserves but hell, who am I to question this guy who seemed to make all the right moves in the off-season.
Aaron Gordon and Lavine have their share of flaws and I really don’t think they would have been better alternatives esp Zach’s defense or lack there off imo.

Sure mate.. no hard feelings.

Clarifying my two statements cos I feel it is the crux of our argument here -
- I absolutely appreciate the whole team's effort on defense, including Kuz, cos Kuz just flat out sucked on that end. It's 50% of playing good defense. The only reason Kuz is still here and got that contract is because of that and the potential. And I get that it's no small thing to sacrifice your penchant for offense and contribute.
- I question his 'lack of work ethic' on developing his areas of opportunity / weaknesses when not playing competitive games. This is the next and only step, unless he is content being what he is, which is a liability at times on a good team.

AG & Lavine do have their flaws, but both are exactly the same age as Kuz and have developed their skill set to command starter spots on any NBA team. We're here struggling to see any way in which Kuz's is more valuable than Caruso or THT here.

If you don't see the undeveloped potential in him to be AG / Lavine level, then this discussion is over. I do, so I question his work ethic / motivation to get better, specially now that he's got paid and doesn't have that uncertainty riding on his back. He better, cos he ain't getting this contract again after 3 years, if he's still the same player at 28.

[tamaraw08]

We can just agree to disagree. You said before you appreciated “10x” his hard work and yet this lack of work ethic comment. Actually, I felt Rob might have given him more than he deserves but hell, who am I to question this guy who seemed to make all the right moves in the off-season.
Aaron Gordon and Lavine have their share of flaws and I really don’t think they would have been better alternatives esp Zach’s defense or lack there off imo.

Sure mate.. no hard feelings.

Clarifying my two statements cos I feel it is the crux of our argument here -
- I absolutely appreciate the whole team's effort on defense, including Kuz, cos Kuz just flat out sucked on that end. It's 50% of playing good defense. The only reason Kuz is still here and got that contract is because of that and the potential. And I get that it's no small thing to sacrifice your penchant for offense and contribute.
- I question his 'lack of work ethic' on developing his areas of opportunity / weaknesses when not playing competitive games. This is the next and only step, unless he is content being what he is, which is a liability at times on a good team.

AG & Lavine do have their flaws, but both are exactly the same age as Kuz and have developed their skill set to command starter spots on any NBA team. We're here struggling to see any way in which Kuz's is more valuable than Caruso or THT here.

If you don't see the undeveloped potential in him to be AG / Lavine level, then this discussion is over. I do, so I question his work ethic / motivation to get better, specially now that he's got paid and doesn't have that uncertainty riding on his back. He better, cos he ain't getting this contract again after 3 years, if he's still the same player at 28.

I just want to say that I appreciate you staying classy and not resorting to calling me names and insults when differ on our opinions about his matter.
I will be liar if I say I know Gordon and Levine personally bec I don't. I however follow PAC-12 and have seen their rise but I want to focus on facts than my subjective opinions on them.
Gordon was really good that Orlando picked him 4th overall, nbadraftnet gave him a score of 92(athletism,size etc ). His production in points, rebs etc actually has been down the past 3 years, but yes, he has developed his great handles he displayed in the MOVIE he made with Kyrie's Uncle Drew.
Zach was picked 13th overall, with a score of 95 by nbadraftnet, with athletism, jumpshot and quickness has his greatest strength. His pts have risen over the years, with more touches and shots but his FG%,TS%,have been down, and his assists/FTA/% have been down per 100 possessions. He never had a positive DBPM, actually ranked 12th in his team in this dept.
I never noticed Kuzma play bec the lowly Utah team was barely shown on TV. I read he was not recruited early, that he had to go to a prep school before actually having the chance to play actual college games. I guess, there was not enough interest from executives either bec he was picked 27th. His score was decent 90 with a bunch of 7's and 8's no 9's, with a 7 on defense, strength, post skills etc. Yes, his pts/FG% etc have been down, but his touches/shots have been down too, and it's very difficult to get that shooting rhythm when this happens. I do believe Aaron's drop has been due to this, with 3 less attempts compared to 3 years ago.
Like I said, it's a case of a bad fit, I would have offered less money but hell, I'm not as smart as Pelinka, surely he knows more than me and other fans here. But anyway, thanks again for staying respectful and classy.