Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

[basketballRob]

i cant agree. his injury history, lack of consistent offensive game, no way someone was going to offer him a max.

You dont need 5 guys to create your offense. You just need them to space the floor which Isaac can do. He is easly one of the 5 most dominant help defenders in the league. Guy you can build your defense around. More versatile than Gobert on defense but with a 3 point shot. Hmmm lets see if its worth 20M a year.... For me he was a lock to get a max contract next year. Its a moderate risk, high reward move. One you make when you dont want to be a treadmill team. Injuries happen, you can be 100 % healthy and then get injured or return from injury like Isaac and stay healthy for the rest of carrier.

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Isaac can guard 5 positions, Gobert can guard 1. Gobert has stayed healthy and he got a much bigger contract than Isaac.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

You dont need 5 guys to create your offense. You just need them to space the floor which Isaac can do. He is easly one of the 5 most dominant help defenders in the league. Guy you can build your defense around. More versatile than Gobert on defense but with a 3 point shot. Hmmm lets see if its worth 20M a year.... For me he was a lock to get a max contract next year. Its a moderate risk, high reward move. One you make when you dont want to be a treadmill team. Injuries happen, you can be 100 % healthy and then get injured or return from injury like Isaac and stay healthy for the rest of carrier.

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Isaac can guard 5 positions, Gobert can guard 1. Gobert has stayed healthy and he got a much bigger contract than Isaac.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

No insult, but you display complete lack of understanding of concept team's defense and offense. Gobert does not need to guard PGs, just like Isaac never actually gaurds anybody else but SFs and PF.

HOWEVER, concept of modern basketball offense is based on pick&roll ball swing, multiple ballhandlers and floor spacing that forces defense to step away from man to man defense and zone defene into multiple switches defense. Teams always exploit missmatches, manily two biggest one- center on elbow with guard OR guard on big man in open space.
Teams do it every possession because it works.

Isaac is very good at recovering mistakes of team defense and great weak side shot blocker.


That being said, nowdays , at least Orlando fans, since defense is whole gimmick of this team, are just flat out overvaluing nba defense.
We are entering 2021, nba teams will once again, at average just rain down 35 threes and score 120 points a night. Once again 80 random dudes will average once upon a time allstar trashold of 18 ppg. Probably over 50 guys will be 20 ppg scorers and half of them will be very average players.

Every playoffs you have this allegedly amazing defenders, who can't even be paired best offensive players ( like Giannis never guarding Jimmy Butler , or Lebron avoiding Harden across the floor ...) because their coaches know, nba rules are such a favorable thing to offensive player, that if you pair your best defender to guard Harden or Lebron or Kawhi, guy will foul out within first 10 min of a game.

[zaymon]

i cant agree. his injury history, lack of consistent offensive game, no way someone was going to offer him a max.

You dont need 5 guys to create your offense. You just need them to space the floor which Isaac can do. He is easly one of the 5 most dominant help defenders in the league. Guy you can build your defense around. More versatile than Gobert on defense but with a 3 point shot. Hmmm lets see if its worth 20M a year.... For me he was a lock to get a max contract next year. Its a moderate risk, high reward move. One you make when you dont want to be a treadmill team. Injuries happen, you can be 100 % healthy and then get injured or return from injury like Isaac and stay healthy for the rest of carrier.

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Your passion for Gobert is beautiful pepe BUT...
For as great of a defender Rudy is, he was still anchoring a mediocre defensive team last year. Utah Jazz was 13 in defensive rating both in regular season and in playoffs. With the ascendence of 3 point shooting big man, Gobert impact is starting to fade. Yes you cant attack him, but you can pull him out of the paint and attack others. With Isaac you cant attack anyone when he is helping and he is much quicker on close outs than Gobert. Its not about attacking Isaac ( which is also crazy), its about attacking everyone else.
On offense its :
playmaking> 3 point shooting> everything else.
You can be a good lead ball handler and play in china, you can be average 3 point shooter and start for contender. Isaac offensive struggles are overblown, he just needs to improve sligthly his efficiency and its enough.
Anthony Davis is a monster and nba champion. Isaac can have similar impact when he develops physically, cant we just smile and wait for it ?

[tiderulz]

You dont need 5 guys to create your offense. You just need them to space the floor which Isaac can do. He is easly one of the 5 most dominant help defenders in the league. Guy you can build your defense around. More versatile than Gobert on defense but with a 3 point shot. Hmmm lets see if its worth 20M a year.... For me he was a lock to get a max contract next year. Its a moderate risk, high reward move. One you make when you dont want to be a treadmill team. Injuries happen, you can be 100 % healthy and then get injured or return from injury like Isaac and stay healthy for the rest of carrier.

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Your passion for Gobert is beautiful pepe BUT...
For as great of a defender Rudy is, he was still anchoring a mediocre defensive team last year. Utah Jazz was 13 in defensive rating both in regular season and in playoffs. With the ascendence of 3 point shooting big man, Gobert impact is starting to fade. Yes you cant attack him, but you can pull him out of the paint and attack others. With Isaac you cant attack anyone when he is helping and he is much quicker on close outs than Gobert. Its not about attacking Isaac ( which is also crazy), its about attacking everyone else.
On offense its :
playmaking> 3 point shooting> everything else.
You can be a good lead ball handler and play in china, you can be average 3 point shooter and start for contender. Isaac offensive struggles are overblown, he just needs to improve sligthly his efficiency and its enough.
Anthony Davis is a monster and nba champion. Isaac can have similar impact when he develops physically, cant we just smile and wait for it ?

i get the gist of what you are saying. But AD was dominating in college and been dominating in the pros. Isaac hasnt been close. you can hope and wish for it, but i would not expect anything close to that and physically developing more isnt going to change it that much (and Isaac is already 23)

[MagicFan101]

Gobert, Davis, Giannis and others are getting Max and Super-Max contracts ... for good reason.

We are not EQUATING Isaac to these players, we are COMPARING them. People need to understand the difference here.

There is also clearly a huge difference on how these players are paid ... no, the injury concern is not the only factor in Isaac being paid far less than those names.

[pepe1991]

You dont need 5 guys to create your offense. You just need them to space the floor which Isaac can do. He is easly one of the 5 most dominant help defenders in the league. Guy you can build your defense around. More versatile than Gobert on defense but with a 3 point shot. Hmmm lets see if its worth 20M a year.... For me he was a lock to get a max contract next year. Its a moderate risk, high reward move. One you make when you dont want to be a treadmill team. Injuries happen, you can be 100 % healthy and then get injured or return from injury like Isaac and stay healthy for the rest of carrier.

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Your passion for Gobert is beautiful pepe BUT...
For as great of a defender Rudy is, he was still anchoring a mediocre defensive team last year. Utah Jazz was 13 in defensive rating both in regular season and in playoffs. With the ascendence of 3 point shooting big man, Gobert impact is starting to fade. Yes you cant attack him, but you can pull him out of the paint and attack others. With Isaac you cant attack anyone when he is helping and he is much quicker on close outs than Gobert. Its not about attacking Isaac ( which is also crazy), its about attacking everyone else.
On offense its :
playmaking> 3 point shooting> everything else.
You can be a good lead ball handler and play in china, you can be average 3 point shooter and start for contender. Isaac offensive struggles are overblown, he just needs to improve sligthly his efficiency and its enough.
Anthony Davis is a monster and nba champion. Isaac can have similar impact when he develops physically, cant we just smile and wait for it ?

Man.. you are better than this

Watch on YouTube

This is 22 years old Davis.

Isaac's career high is 25 points.
Davis that year scored 30 or more points 14 times and averaged 24 ppg cor a season.

This is like comparing Hakeem to Vučević. It's painful.

[basketballRob]

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Isaac can guard 5 positions, Gobert can guard 1. Gobert has stayed healthy and he got a much bigger contract than Isaac.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

No insult, but you display complete lack of understanding of concept team's defense and offense. Gobert does not need to guard PGs, just like Isaac never actually gaurds anybody else but SFs and PF.

HOWEVER, concept of modern basketball offense is based on pick&roll ball swing, multiple ballhandlers and floor spacing that forces defense to step away from man to man defense and zone defene into multiple switches defense. Teams always exploit missmatches, manily two biggest one- center on elbow with guard OR guard on big man in open space.
Teams do it every possession because it works.

Isaac is very good at recovering mistakes of team defense and great weak side shot blocker.


That being said, nowdays , at least Orlando fans, since defense is whole gimmick of this team, are just flat out overvaluing nba defense.
We are entering 2021, nba teams will once again, at average just rain down 35 threes and score 120 points a night. Once again 80 random dudes will average once upon a time allstar trashold of 18 ppg. Probably over 50 guys will be 20 ppg scorers and half of them will be very average players.

Every playoffs you have this allegedly amazing defenders, who can't even be paired best offensive players ( like Giannis never guarding Jimmy Butler , or Lebron avoiding Harden across the floor ...) because their coaches know, nba rules are such a favorable thing to offensive player, that if you pair your best defender to guard Harden or Lebron or Kawhi, guy will foul out within first 10 min of a game.

Gobert has been exposed in the playoffs several times, because he can't guard the perimeter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

exposed by... James Harden .... One of most gifted scorers... ever?
Pair Lebron and Isaac for playoff series and you will come home with same conclusion.

Actually you don't have to, Kawhi already did it for your.
Isaac held Kawhi on 28 ppg, 56% FG and 54% for 3

Impact... Pure lockdown it was.

[ARandomStranger]

I'm pretty sure it was AG on Kawhi and Isaac on Pascal, but I've been wrong before. Also, Isaac when healthy is a top 5 defensive player in the nba. If you have a guy like that on roster, you plan around that guy, and more so than that if you are playing against that team you prep your team to play against that guy.

Your perceived notion of modern basketball is riveting and accurate, but that doesn't change Isaac's value and neither does it make the idea that Isaac will be better defensively than Gobert false.

In the modern NBA, switch defense is a good send, and Isaac is better than Gobert at that, and more over can defend any position. I don't care about Gobert in the paint if I'm the Warriors as much as I care about Isaac switching on me if I'm the Warriors. And in a shoot happy league, Isaac holds more value than Gobert does now

[zaymon]

For start, he is NOT as good defender as Gobert is. This is where Isaac narrative always gets blown away out of proportion. Because people compare him with Gobert and their defensive impact comparison would bi similar to comparing Lebron's offene to Paul George.
Not that George is not great offensive player, but he does not belong in same world as Lebron.

Gobert is one man defense. Utah menages to put guys like Joe Ingles,Jordan Clarkson and Bojan Bogdanovic on the floor and still be good defensive team mainly because of Gobert.
Because of Gobert's one man - inside 15 foot defense, Utah can send 4 guys on perimeter and that's why they are best 3 point defending team almost evey year.

Matter of fact Goberts worst season in his life, rookie one, on defense, was ranking him as 55th best defender from period of 2010-2020. Let's repeat this again. Gobert's worst defensive year made him 55th best defender among cca 4500 players/seasons.
Gobert isn't just great defender, he is one of best defenders in history.

In last 2 years alone, isolated in mismatches against guards, Gobert saved 765 points.

What's most important aspect of his game, that most fans flat out don't understand, is his blocks. Do you know why he does not have many blocks? Because players avoid layups near him.

Isaac is non of that. Isaac is weak side shot blocker and great help defender.
But you are NOT running defense around Isaac like you would around Gobert. You flat out don't leave him in paint alone as anchor.
Isaac is waaay more similar on defense to Giannis, KG and Ibaka than he will ever be to Davis and Gobert, who both are center peace of defense.


Few more things. isaac is career 33% three point shooter for career. So below average one.
And all the " better offensive value" is also fabricated lie when it comes to overblowing Isaac wagon.
Isaac never averaged more than 11,9 points a game on 10 shots a game.

Gobert already averaged 15 and 16 points a game on 8,8 FGA. So 4 and 5 more points on less shots.
Gobert is huge body, he is 7'1- around 240-250 pounds athletic center that grabbs 4 ORPG and draws around 5 to 6 fouls a game.
On top of that he is leagues's leading screener and huge lob target that dunks everything around rim. needless to say on uber elite efficiency.

isaac's whole offensive game is catch and shoot wide open 3s ad league's averge.

Gobert, his body, his durability and what he offers to a team are simply waaaaay, waaay more valuable for a team than Isaac is. He is much better, more complete and better equipped player for this day and age than Isaac will ever be.

That stupid comparison has to stop. It's pretty much comparison of future hall of famer with player that is dumbed down to "if Kevin Garnett never learned how to play offense".

Your passion for Gobert is beautiful pepe BUT...
For as great of a defender Rudy is, he was still anchoring a mediocre defensive team last year. Utah Jazz was 13 in defensive rating both in regular season and in playoffs. With the ascendence of 3 point shooting big man, Gobert impact is starting to fade. Yes you cant attack him, but you can pull him out of the paint and attack others. With Isaac you cant attack anyone when he is helping and he is much quicker on close outs than Gobert. Its not about attacking Isaac ( which is also crazy), its about attacking everyone else.
On offense its :
playmaking> 3 point shooting> everything else.
You can be a good lead ball handler and play in china, you can be average 3 point shooter and start for contender. Isaac offensive struggles are overblown, he just needs to improve sligthly his efficiency and its enough.
Anthony Davis is a monster and nba champion. Isaac can have similar impact when he develops physically, cant we just smile and wait for it ?

Man.. you are better than this

Watch on YouTube

This is 22 years old Davis.

Isaac's career high is 25 points.
Davis that year scored 30 or more points 14 times and averaged 24 ppg cor a season.

This is like comparing Hakeem to Vučević. It's painful.

I was obviously comparing defensive impact. Isaac will never be scorer Davis is today. We can agree on that.

[Def Swami]

It's a good thing Isaac is getting paid half of what Anthony Davis does? I'm not even sure where this topic has gone.

[pepe1991]

I'm pretty sure it was AG on Kawhi and Isaac on Pascal, but I've been wrong before. Also, Isaac when healthy is a top 5 defensive player in the nba. If you have a guy like that on roster, you plan around that guy, and more so than that if you are playing against that team you prep your team to play against that guy.

Your perceived notion of modern basketball is riveting and accurate, but that doesn't change Isaac's value and neither does it make the idea that Isaac will be better defensively than Gobert false.

In the modern NBA, switch defense is a good send, and Isaac is better than Gobert at that, and more over can defend any position. I don't care about Gobert in the paint if I'm the Warriors as much as I care about Isaac switching on me if I'm the Warriors. And in a shoot happy league, Isaac holds more value than Gobert does now

Siakam averaged 22,7 points, 8,4 rebounds, 3,2 assists on 53,3% FG, 36,4% for 3.

Isaac averaged 6,6 points on 27,5% FG and 20% for 3.

Talking about being dwarfed...

[pepe1991]

Can we talk about serious stuff like: not having cap space ?

People cried whole summer how they hate running it back. Now running it back is most flexibility you will get.

[Knightro]

Can we talk about serious stuff like: not having cap space ?

People cried whole summer how they hate running it back. Now running it back is most flexibility you will get.

They weren't going to have cap space this summer anyway unless they were willing to straight up move on from Isaac and Fultz (and Evan + others) for no return.

That was never going to happen.

[pepe1991]

Can we talk about serious stuff like: not having cap space ?

People cried whole summer how they hate running it back. Now running it back is most flexibility you will get.

They weren't going to have cap space this summer anyway unless they were willing to straight up move on from Isaac and Fultz (and Evan + others) for no return.

That was never going to happen.

Now they also don't have cap space for 2022,just for good measurments.

There is already around $115M commited to Vuc, Bamba, Isaac, Fultz, Gordon, Aminu, Cole, Okeke and Isaac.
Get 2021 rookie and you work with no cap space for 2 more years.

If they resign Evan or trade him for somebody, there is even less salary.

You know you are poorly runned when you your win projection is below .500 and you have to wait at least 2 years to find next existing cap flexibility. And all of this is created by THIS front office, and there is zero excuses why roster still looks how it looks.

[Knightro]

Now they also don't have cap space for 2022,just for good measurments.

There is already around $115M commited to Vuc, Bamba, Isaac, Fultz, Gordon, Aminu, Cole, Okeke and Isaac.
Get 2021 rookie and you work with no cap space for 2 more years.

If they resign Evan or trade him for somebody, there is even less salary.

You know you are poorly runned when you your win projection is below .500 and you have to wait at least 2 years to find next existing cap flexibility. And all of this is created by THIS front office, and there is zero excuses why roster still looks how it looks.

My point still stands. They weren't going to have cap space for 2022 either unless they were willing to move on from Fultz and Isaac both and they clearly weren't.

[pepe1991]

Now they also don't have cap space for 2022,just for good measurments.

There is already around $115M commited to Vuc, Bamba, Isaac, Fultz, Gordon, Aminu, Cole, Okeke and Isaac.
Get 2021 rookie and you work with no cap space for 2 more years.

If they resign Evan or trade him for somebody, there is even less salary.

You know you are poorly runned when you your win projection is below .500 and you have to wait at least 2 years to find next existing cap flexibility. And all of this is created by THIS front office, and there is zero excuses why roster still looks how it looks.

My point still stands. They weren't going to have cap space for 2022 either unless they were willing to move on from Fultz and Isaac both and they clearly weren't.

You wrote " for this summer" , that's 2021.

Regardless. Let's not try to sugar coated it. For next 2 summers, Orlando Magic roster is what it is today, if they are not ready to wrack this current one and tank. And they are not.
And now they kind a can't do that either because if they even land some star, he becomes RFA in same year they longer have no control over Isaac's future and Fultz is probably already gone .

This is what happends when your rebuild is not based on any solid plan, and they just make stuff up along the way.
Throwing s***against the wall to see what sticks. No plan, no solid player to build around, never commiting to sucking, never commiting to compeating. Just drifting through mediocrity.

[zaymon]

Well we have a plan thats for sure, but not everybody likes it :p.
It seems like we are up to date regarding roster construction. Long, athletic players, smart on defense with capability to protect the paint. On offense we can go with double or even triple playmakers not counting Vucevic. Our rotation is quite young so we wont contend right away but the fundaments are there. Long frontcourt + multiple playmakers backcourt. + reclamation projects.
You can hate front office but you cant say they dont have a type and they dont have a plan.

[basketballRob]

I'm pretty sure it was AG on Kawhi and Isaac on Pascal, but I've been wrong before. Also, Isaac when healthy is a top 5 defensive player in the nba. If you have a guy like that on roster, you plan around that guy, and more so than that if you are playing against that team you prep your team to play against that guy.

Your perceived notion of modern basketball is riveting and accurate, but that doesn't change Isaac's value and neither does it make the idea that Isaac will be better defensively than Gobert false.

In the modern NBA, switch defense is a good send, and Isaac is better than Gobert at that, and more over can defend any position. I don't care about Gobert in the paint if I'm the Warriors as much as I care about Isaac switching on me if I'm the Warriors. And in a shoot happy league, Isaac holds more value than Gobert does now

Siakam averaged 22,7 points, 8,4 rebounds, 3,2 assists on 53,3% FG, 36,4% for 3.

Isaac averaged 6,6 points on 27,5% FG and 20% for 3.

Talking about being dwarfed...

If you talk to most of the Raptor fans they'd trade Siakam straight up for Isaac.

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[Knightro]

You wrote " for this summer" , that's 2021.

Regardless. Let's not try to sugar coated it. For next 2 summers, Orlando Magic roster is what it is today, if they are not ready to wrack this current one and tank. And they are not.
And now they kind a can't do that either because if they even land some star, he becomes RFA in same year they longer have no control over Isaac's future and Fultz is probably already gone .

This is what happends when your rebuild is not based on any solid plan, and they just make stuff up along the way.
Throwing s***against the wall to see what sticks. No plan, no solid player to build around, never commiting to sucking, never commiting to compeating. Just drifting through mediocrity.

I understand what I wrote. I'm simply pointing out there was no path for the Magic to have cap space in 2021 or 2022 unless they were willing to move on from several players currently on the roster, specifically Isaac and Fultz, which they were clearly not willing to do.

I don't love the path they're on either, but cap space wasn't really a thing for the organization.

The next steps in the process...

1. Trading Fournier or letting him leave in free agency after the season
2. Trading Gordon before the season ends or during the summer