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Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season

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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#41 » by MrSparkle » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:01 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
MGB8 wrote:A lot of teams are going to have a lot of regret about these extensions. Christian Wood’s contract now looking like a steal. Ditto Gallo and Bogs.


Agree on those 3 guys being on value deals, but honestly don't feel like there were too many bad deal given out this offseason. And the ones I consider to be bad (like Plumlee's contract with the Pistons) are mostly smaller deals, which makes them easier to move. Gobert at 41 mil hurts too, but I at least get why the Jazz did it.


I feel like people overreact to the crazy amounts of money these guys get when that's just how it is these days. Plus, especially with rookie extensions, people overestimate the impact of the extensions on the next offseason. Capholds are a thing. Toronto now only adds like 4 mil in salary for 21/22 by extending OG for example.


Hm - on the contrary, I feel like every off-season every fan freaks out about the contracts, then forget it and accept it... then about 3 months later everyone is desperately trying to realGM fantasy trades because they're stuck with stupid salaries. :noway:

But I do get that it's the economy of the NBA. You can't have 20 teams not paying players because they know they're not in contention. The max salary creates this invisible perception of a superstar's worth. Lebron isn't worth $40m in this league; he's worth $100m annually because he alone with twelve vet. min. contracts would probably still beat the current Bulls.

IMO given the weight of 1 player's impact, the NBA should throw in a reform for cap-exceptions. Make the amnesty/buy-out option a regular deal (or at least 3 per decade or something, or offer it as a sacrifice for your FRP, in exchange for #60), with some stipulations (i.e. massive player decline, injuries, etc.). I can care less if owners end up paying players more money. It's just a bummer as a fan that your roster is heavily penalized when your max player tears an ACL, or you generously overpay a player and suffer at the back-end of the deal.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#42 » by Southpaw » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:39 pm

TheStig wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Let's be real here, the Spurs over the last 25 years have really only ever done three things of consequence that weren't complete layups – draft Manu, Tony, and Kawhi.

Without those three (and some guy from the Virgin Islands of course), they are just another nothing franchise that doesn't tank and drafts decently.

How many franchises have drafted 3 hall of famers with non lotto picks? Pretty big accomplishment if you ask me. That's before having one of the greatest coaches of all time or being a model small market franchise.

Not only drafting 3 HOFers but also being able to find role players that would fit said HOFers. Guys like Bowen, Green, Diaw, Mills, Splitter come to mind. Tho to be fair, the Spurs has been bad the last few years with their signings and trades.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#43 » by aramada » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:44 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
aramada wrote:The Athletic's article from this morning with 3 scouts asked to evaluate the Bulls' key protagonists is (unsurprisingly) showing how bad we are rated around the league:
Donovan - we don't know who he is without superstars. He will have to coach a lot more. He's definitely a big step up over Boylen, though
Zach - Talented scorer, not a #1 option on a good team. One scout says "soft, not a leader". One scout still believes he has it
White - Skeptical about his ability to take the step as a playmaker. One scout says he's just a scorer off the bench
Otto - "Got big, is it muscle?". A fine player but his big contract puts too much spotlight on him. Too injured to be reliable
Lauri - the usual narrative about not being used properly. One scout is anti-Lauri - says he/she watched him live multiple times and haven't seen it with him. All agree he has to make shots, but he may be soft mentally
WCJ - "still don't know what he is". They see some of his skills and character, but injuries and Boylen schemes hurt his development
Williams - has skills and athleticism but nothing elite. One scout was shocked he went #4 - don't see it with him
All agree to no playoffs, maybe play-in

My takeaway here is a lot of in-season development is needed and everyone is skeptical there will be a lot of wins to keep the confidence high. Donovan's schemes will be key but he may be limited in how much he can achieve with the current make up of the roster...
Staying pat is not a great look for the FO. I'm not sure placing that much hope on Coby making everyone better is right. They should have been aggressive in pursuing a vet playmaker like Paul or Rubio, who would have made the young guys' life easier


Mostly fair. Hard to tell if 5y of total coaching ineptitude has jaded my view of good coaching, but Donovan does seem like a basketball god right now. I have zero problems with sets, rotations and his press conferences. Bit disingenuous to say he hasn’t proven himself without superstars. How many coaches keep a team relevant for 4 years after losing a top-2 player of the decade? Sorry but Westbrook was not a superstar, nor was old CP3, nor were pre-Pacers Oladipo and post-Pacers PG13 as they passed through. Every single player that went to Donovan improved under his coaching. Came in under-performing, came out playing great. The only question is if he’s good for development, why did Presti let him go? Was it to properly tank and give Billie a break, or did Presti have a basketball reason?

But I can’t disagree with any roster assessments. I also don’t see an elite superstar in Williams. I see elite flashes and potential, for sure. But he’s a project with a good floor, which is my personal favorite type of project (ie rookie Giannis). So far I like the draft, and PW was a good pick amongst good picks. The premise of "finding superstars" is preposterous.

Agreed with the premise that there are a bunch of unknowns and problems with this team. Makes sense since the last 2 years were a complete developmental and FO ****-show.


I agree that it's hard to pre-judge him while he hasn't had to coach a young team in the NBA before - his time at Florida speaks for him, though. The article speaks more of coaching Westbrook or CP3, Durant etc. as players talented and influential enough that he can sometimes take a back seat and let them run plays. That said, as lone stars Westbrook got MVP and CP3 led that sub-par team to the playoffs - Donovan can only share the accolades with those guys.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#44 » by Southpaw » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:46 pm

aramada wrote:The Athletic's article from this morning with 3 scouts asked to evaluate the Bulls' key protagonists is (unsurprisingly) showing how bad we are rated around the league:
Donovan - we don't know who he is without superstars. He will have to coach a lot more. He's definitely a big step up over Boylen, though
Zach - Talented scorer, not a #1 option on a good team. One scout says "soft, not a leader". One scout still believes he has it
White - Skeptical about his ability to take the step as a playmaker. One scout says he's just a scorer off the bench
Otto - "Got big, is it muscle?". A fine player but his big contract puts too much spotlight on him. Too injured to be reliable
Lauri - the usual narrative about not being used properly. One scout is anti-Lauri - says he/she watched him live multiple times and haven't seen it with him. All agree he has to make shots, but he may be soft mentally
WCJ - "still don't know what he is". They see some of his skills and character, but injuries and Boylen schemes hurt his development
Williams - has skills and athleticism but nothing elite. One scout was shocked he went #4 - don't see it with him
All agree to no playoffs, maybe play-in

My takeaway here is a lot of in-season development is needed and everyone is skeptical there will be a lot of wins to keep the confidence high. Donovan's schemes will be key but he may be limited in how much he can achieve with the current make up of the roster...
Staying pat is not a great look for the FO. I'm not sure placing that much hope on Coby making everyone better is right. They should have been aggressive in pursuing a vet playmaker like Paul or Rubio, who would have made the young guys' life easier

Harsh but fair points. I'm also not too high on Donovan but he's a huuuge upgrade over Boylen that I'm excited to see what he can do with the youngins. I disagree that Lavine is soft tho it does look like he's not the leader type. All other takes are spot on for me except for Williams, who to me has star potential on the level of a Lu Deng unless he blows up like Jimmy did.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#45 » by cjbulls » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:32 pm

Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#46 » by MrSparkle » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm

Southpaw wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Let's be real here, the Spurs over the last 25 years have really only ever done three things of consequence that weren't complete layups – draft Manu, Tony, and Kawhi.

Without those three (and some guy from the Virgin Islands of course), they are just another nothing franchise that doesn't tank and drafts decently.

How many franchises have drafted 3 hall of famers with non lotto picks? Pretty big accomplishment if you ask me. That's before having one of the greatest coaches of all time or being a model small market franchise.

Not only drafting 3 HOFers but also being able to find role players that would fit said HOFers. Guys like Bowen, Green, Diaw, Mills, Splitter come to mind. Tho to be fair, the Spurs has been bad the last few years with their signings and trades.


Eh have they? How long a run of success can you have?

The 14-19 drafts have actually been pretty bad on the whole. I think Derrick White and DeJounte were very solid #29 picks.

Keldon and Lonnie Walker are nothing, but you look at those previous 2 drafts and they're really full of zero-impact players.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#47 » by Southpaw » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:39 pm

cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.

Same here man. I really wanted that trade up.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#48 » by Southpaw » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:14 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Southpaw wrote:
TheStig wrote:How many franchises have drafted 3 hall of famers with non lotto picks? Pretty big accomplishment if you ask me. That's before having one of the greatest coaches of all time or being a model small market franchise.

Not only drafting 3 HOFers but also being able to find role players that would fit said HOFers. Guys like Bowen, Green, Diaw, Mills, Splitter come to mind. Tho to be fair, the Spurs has been bad the last few years with their signings and trades.


Eh have they? How long a run of success can you have?

The 14-19 drafts have actually been pretty bad on the whole. I think Derrick White and DeJounte were very solid #29 picks.

Keldon and Lonnie Walker are nothing, but you look at those previous 2 drafts and they're really full of zero-impact players.

Their drafts and player development has been solid, as per usual they've had bad trades/signings as well. Signing Pau to a huge deal was bad, same as resigning Gay to a mid sized deal. The Kawhi trade was bad but their hands were forced. The Bertans trade was bad as well imo. Overall they're great but they have their misses as well. The Kawhi saga has really set them back.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#49 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:55 pm

Southpaw wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.

Same here man. I really wanted that trade up.


No matter what, the “don’t bundle Wendell” takes look funny in the light.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#50 » by DASMACKDOWN » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:29 pm

Southpaw wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.

Same here man. I really wanted that trade up.


I wouldnt harp on it tho. It would have had to be a real situation - which it wasnt.

Even still, Wendell's preseason didnt give much encouragement regardless.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#51 » by VolumePoster » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:30 pm

cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.


I'd buckle up then. My feeling is he'll be excellent.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#52 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:38 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.


I'd buckle up then. My feeling is he'll be excellent.


And should Patrick Williams be excellent too, will people still be moping about not getting Wiseman? I don't think there was any legit chance of trading up to get him.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#53 » by cjbulls » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:40 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Southpaw wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.

Same here man. I really wanted that trade up.


I wouldnt harp on it tho. It would have had to be a real situation - which it wasnt.

Even still, Wendell's preseason didnt give much encouragement regardless.


It’s fair to say “we aren’t sure it was available”. It’s another to say “it wasn’t real”. Important distinction. I have my doubts about WCJ + 4 for 2 because it became much less appealing once GSW found out Klay was hurt.

But we can say with high certainty there was a way to get Wiseman, the Bulls chose not to pay it. This was the most highly advertised #1 and #2 picks are available in the last 20 years, probably longer.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#54 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:52 pm

Wise man once told me dont cry over spilt milk.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#55 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:20 am

Wiggins is so bad
Why so serious?
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#56 » by cjbulls » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:21 am

Jeffster81 wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:
cjbulls wrote:Wiseman starting tonight. If he looks good I will be depressed.


I'd buckle up then. My feeling is he'll be excellent.


And should Patrick Williams be excellent too, will people still be moping about not getting Wiseman? I don't think there was any legit chance of trading up to get him.


Minnesota and Golden state were publicly telling the media, “please, call us teams, we are open for business on these picks” at a level previously unheard of. There was a legit chance
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#57 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:29 am

The Nets are going to be an interesting team. They have a lot of offensive fire power. Just curious what their defense will be like in the long haul.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#58 » by cjbulls » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:55 am

Well Wiseman looks very meh for a #2 pick. Looks like he has a long way to go, not a big surprise after the year off and limited training camp
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#59 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 am

cjbulls wrote:Well Wiseman looks very meh for a #2 pick. Looks like he has a long way to go, not a big surprise after the year off and limited training camp


And yet, Patrick seems to have improved during his time off.
Why so serious?
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Re: Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season 

Post#60 » by DASMACKDOWN » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:59 am

cjbulls wrote:Well Wiseman looks very meh for a #2 pick. Looks like he has a long way to go, not a big surprise after the year off and limited training camp


Are we really? lol Its his first game at any pro level. No Summer, no preseason.

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