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Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa

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Invictus88
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#41 » by Invictus88 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:01 pm

chrbal wrote:Ellington is pretty much half a player/coach and half a favor to an agent.


This is now the third such deal:
1. Sirvydis's agent is Michael Tellum, Arn Tellum's son
2. Mason Plumlee's agent is Mark Bartelstein, father of Pistons VP of operations Josh Bartelstein
3. Ellington's agent is also Mark Bartelstein

Each of of these transactions has cost the team in terms of assets (cap space, draft picks, resources) versus the cost of players of equal value that weren't connected to family members. All three could reasonably be construed as conflicts of interest.

I hate conspiracy theories but it's really hard to see this as anything more than a money grab.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#42 » by edmunder_prc » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:03 am

Invictus88 wrote:
chrbal wrote:Ellington is pretty much half a player/coach and half a favor to an agent.


This is now the third such deal:
1. Sirvydis's agent is Michael Tellum, Arn Tellum's son
2. Mason Plumlee's agent is Mark Bartelstein, father of Pistons VP of operations Josh Bartelstein
3. Ellington's agent is also Mark Bartelstein

Each of of these transactions has cost the team in terms of assets (cap space, draft picks, resources) versus the cost of players of equal value that weren't connected to family members. All three could reasonably be construed as conflicts of interest.

I hate conspiracy theories but it's really hard to see this as anything more than a money grab.



Many people conspire to do all sorts of terrible things. Its better you believe in too many, than too few. Conspiracies are real, ask Julius Caesar, Lincoln, etc.

The reality is that most large organizations are full of grift, lying, stealing, corruption of every kind, power grabbing, gaslighting and whatever else you can think of. The NBA generates BILLIONS of dollars. These Bartelsteins and who ever are getting millions of dollars doing basically nothing, other than bringing which ever guy needs to be taken out to the VIP with a bunch of coke and prostitutes so they dont rat them out.

Lebron is essentially his own GM and he gets his friends tens of millions of dollars. Now that is some serious ****. Tellum getting some no name 15th roster spot guy a 2 million dollar a year deal is nothing. The agent made enough to buy a new Cadillac, Pistons lost a 2nd round pick, but hey man, its all between friends right?

Any big company you see, its much worse than this. Governments? Look at the 2 trillion dollars and see how much of that benefits you?
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#43 » by The_Irony » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:09 am

bruce gets 8 minutes in a 30 point blowout. hes the clear 14th/15th man. We still crying about him?
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#44 » by Invictus88 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:17 am

edmunder_prc wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
chrbal wrote:Ellington is pretty much half a player/coach and half a favor to an agent.


This is now the third such deal:
1. Sirvydis's agent is Michael Tellum, Arn Tellum's son
2. Mason Plumlee's agent is Mark Bartelstein, father of Pistons VP of operations Josh Bartelstein
3. Ellington's agent is also Mark Bartelstein

Each of of these transactions has cost the team in terms of assets (cap space, draft picks, resources) versus the cost of players of equal value that weren't connected to family members. All three could reasonably be construed as conflicts of interest.

I hate conspiracy theories but it's really hard to see this as anything more than a money grab.



Many people conspire to do all sorts of terrible things. Its better you believe in too many, than too few. Conspiracies are real, ask Julius Caesar, Lincoln, etc.

The reality is that most large organizations are full of grift, lying, stealing, corruption of every kind, power grabbing, gaslighting and whatever else you can think of. The NBA generates BILLIONS of dollars. These Bartelsteins and who ever are getting millions of dollars doing basically nothing, other than bringing which ever guy needs to be taken out to the VIP with a bunch of coke and prostitutes so they dont rat them out.

Lebron is essentially his own GM and he gets his friends tens of millions of dollars. Now that is some serious ****. Tellum getting some no name 15th roster spot guy a 2 million dollar a year deal is nothing. The agent made enough to buy a new Cadillac, Pistons lost a 2nd round pick, but hey man, its all between friends right?

Any big company you see, its much worse than this. Governments? Look at the 2 trillion dollars and see how much of that benefits you?


I think like most things there's unhealthy extremes on both ends of the spectrum as far as skepticism is concerned.

I think that it's definitely become more of a player's league w/regards to say in personnel moves. I might not like it but I understand it. As a superstar player you really are bringing a lot to a franchise. Realizing that and choosing an organization that is either in line with your best interests or directly works with you on them is just the new way of business nowadays.

But there is no prima donna here that management needs to cater to. You'd hope that would leave the management team to be free to make moves aimed solely at improving the franchise; but that's not what is happening here. Instead it's the management team that is lining their pockets. Sadly that points to weak ownership not holding those folks accountable. The fans are the ones who suffer as a result.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#45 » by Pharaoh » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:24 am

Think it's wise for a rookie GM to curry favour with agents tbh

Weaver has got a few years to build a reputation around the league before it matters anyway.

Not gonna help us land any big fish right now but better to be on their "good" side than not.

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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#46 » by Invictus88 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Think it's wise for a rookie GM to curry favour with agents tbh

Weaver has got a few years to build a reputation around the league before it matters anyway.

Not gonna help us land any big fish right now but better to be on their "good" side than not.

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These are family members of the management team. The relationships are already established.

I would hope that Josh Bartelstein would already be on the "good" side of his father.

I would hope Arn Tellum would already be on the "good" side of his son.

This is just another example of the tunnel vision you have with regards to the management team. You feel compelled to lead a one man crusade to try and dismiss any and all negative opinions regarding them; in the process feigning ignorance of or trying to minimize simple facts and observations and straying into faulty logic.

I'm going to do you a big favor and save you time: I don't care to see your replies and have put you on my foe list; effectively tuning you out. So you needn't take the time to read or respond to mine. I'm perfectly okay with this situation.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#47 » by Pharaoh » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:33 pm

LMAO

I'm now on the Foe list? That's gold.

Given all our transactions you select 2 that fit your narrative then claim I've got tunnel vision?

Maybe I was speaking about all our moves and not just the few you chose to focus on
Invictus88 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Think it's wise for a rookie GM to curry favour with agents tbh

Weaver has got a few years to build a reputation around the league before it matters anyway.

Not gonna help us land any big fish right now but better to be on their "good" side than not.

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These are family members of the management team. The relationships are already established.

I would hope that Josh Bartelstein would already be on the "good" side of his father.

I would hope Arn Tellum would already be on the "good" side of his son.

This is just another example of the tunnel vision you have with regards to the management team. You feel compelled to lead a one man crusade to try and dismiss any and all negative opinions regarding them; in the process feigning ignorance of or trying to minimize simple facts and observations and straying into faulty logic.

I'm going to do you a big favor and save you time: I don't care to see your replies and have put you on my foe list; effectively tuning you out. So you needn't take the time to read or respond to mine. I'm perfectly okay with this situation.


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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#48 » by chrbal » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:04 am

Pharaoh wrote:LMAO

I'm now on the Foe list? That's gold.

Given all our transactions you select 2 that fit your narrative then claim I've got tunnel vision?

Maybe I was speaking about all our moves and not just the few you chose to focus on
Invictus88 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Think it's wise for a rookie GM to curry favour with agents tbh

Weaver has got a few years to build a reputation around the league before it matters anyway.

Not gonna help us land any big fish right now but better to be on their "good" side than not.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app


These are family members of the management team. The relationships are already established.

I would hope that Josh Bartelstein would already be on the "good" side of his father.

I would hope Arn Tellum would already be on the "good" side of his son.

This is just another example of the tunnel vision you have with regards to the management team. You feel compelled to lead a one man crusade to try and dismiss any and all negative opinions regarding them; in the process feigning ignorance of or trying to minimize simple facts and observations and straying into faulty logic.

I'm going to do you a big favor and save you time: I don't care to see your replies and have put you on my foe list; effectively tuning you out. So you needn't take the time to read or respond to mine. I'm perfectly okay with this situation.


Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app



Welcome to a very weird and exclusive club. I haven’t been on this persons list. But I have had someone tell me something similar.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#49 » by Pharaoh » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:52 am

Given different opinions makes the board worth reading I find it hilarious tbh
chrbal wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:LMAO

I'm now on the Foe list? That's gold.

Given all our transactions you select 2 that fit your narrative then claim I've got tunnel vision?

Maybe I was speaking about all our moves and not just the few you chose to focus on
Invictus88 wrote:
These are family members of the management team. The relationships are already established.

I would hope that Josh Bartelstein would already be on the "good" side of his father.

I would hope Arn Tellum would already be on the "good" side of his son.

This is just another example of the tunnel vision you have with regards to the management team. You feel compelled to lead a one man crusade to try and dismiss any and all negative opinions regarding them; in the process feigning ignorance of or trying to minimize simple facts and observations and straying into faulty logic.

I'm going to do you a big favor and save you time: I don't care to see your replies and have put you on my foe list; effectively tuning you out. So you needn't take the time to read or respond to mine. I'm perfectly okay with this situation.


Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app



Welcome to a very weird and exclusive club. I haven’t been on this persons list. But I have had someone tell me something similar.


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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#50 » by Jstock12 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:38 pm

Pharaoh wrote:I actually liked Brown. Had no clue who this Musa guy was. Not gonna find out now

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Musa was the only Doncic's youth rival in Europe. They were considered to be comparable talents when they were both 14-15 years old... And then Doncic separated himself by a mile. But Musa is still a nice prospect imo, only 21 years old. It's a real shame he got waived.

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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#51 » by Crymson » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:26 pm

Weaver waived a player with possible upside so that the Pistons could have yet another mediocre veteran on the bench.

Maybe it was for the sake of having expiring salary? I can think of no other reason.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#52 » by Pharaoh » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:43 pm

Could be so we don't have a whole bunch of kids competing with other kids for playing time?

Kids can't educate kids. That strategy hasn't worked for the Kings, Wolves, Wizards etc for years!

I believe any young team that wants to avoid the never ending cycle of lotto picks has to surround those kids with real pros.

Not so you can play them over the kids all the time but some of the time.
Crymson wrote:Weaver waived a player with possible upside so that the Pistons could have yet another mediocre veteran on the bench.

Maybe it was for the sake of having expiring salary? I can think of no other reason.


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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#53 » by Crymson » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:20 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Could be so we don't have a whole bunch of kids competing with other kids for playing time?


No. Musa wouldn't have been competing for time in any event, unless he were to play extremely well in some unlikely scenario. Like Lee and Sirvydis, he would've been deep in the rotation and only with the team because the G-League isn't in operation.

Kids can't educate kids.


The Pistons would've had five veterans (Griffin, Rose, Grant, Plumlee, and Wright) guaranteed to play major roles in the rotation, plus Ellington from the bench. If that isn't enough, then the problem is the veterans themselves rather than the quantity of them. And I strongly doubt that the presence of one more prospect and one less veteran, particularly an NBA nobody like Mcgruder, would've tipped the balance for any NBA team in any situation.

That strategy hasn't worked for the Kings, Wolves, Wizards etc for years!


That claim isn't relevant, but I'll answer it anyway. With a single exception, the Kings have had numerous veterans in major roles in every season throughout the recent past. The single exception happened to be their most successful season of the past 15 years. That organization's protracted failure has chiefly come at the hands of incompetent management. The Wizards have not rebuilt; prior to the last two seasons, which were lost primarily due to injuries and poor rosters, they'd made the playoffs in four of the previous five campaigns and the second round in three of those.

The Timberwolves, like the Kings, have fallen victim primarily to dreadful mismanagement. They've had very young teams, but that's not inherently a recipe for failure. The Celtics teams of 2017-2018 and 2018-2019, for example, were composed chiefly of players on either rookie contracts or the initial years of rookie extensions, and it would be an understatement to declare that they did just fine. On the 2017-2018 roster, which barely missed qualifying for the Finals despite the absence of Kyrie Irving, only one of the team's top six players in total regular-season minutes was over the age of 25, four of the remaining five were on rookie contracts, and the leader in minutes was a rookie. The primaries on Milwaukee's rebuild rosters were likewise chiefly young. And so on.

There is no inherent rule here. And as noted, the Pistons would have had more than enough veterans in the rotation anyway. Too many, one could argue.

I believe any young team that wants to avoid the never ending cycle of lotto picks has to surround those kids with real pros.


McGruder is a fringe role player who has played all of 200 games in the NBA, has only one respectable season under his belt, and would very likely be out of the NBA this season had the Pistons kept Musa instead. He isn't a "real pro." He's barely NBA-caliber, and he's unlikely to see minutes this season unless there are a lot of injuries.


Now that I've answered your claims, answer me a question: why are you so eager to line up in defense of Casey and Weaver?
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#54 » by Pharaoh » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:16 pm

Didn't mention Casey at all so we'll go with my "defence" of Weaver.

The roster he inherited sucked! Was trapped in the middle, not good enough to make noise in the playoffs and not bad enough to get a high pick in the Draft.

So he detonated it in every way imaginable!

I don't actually agree with every move and have stated so repeatedly despite so many ignoring those posts and claiming I only defend the FO and ignore:

Stetching Dedmon in order to sign Plumlee

Stetching Smith in order to sign Ellington

Signing Grant wasn't ever a thought for me after the Draft and because I didn't expect him to leave a contender for us! I'll let that play out though before I endlessly complain about it simply because he chose to bet on himself and I can respect that choice...until it messes up our situation in some way.

After free agency so many on here jumped to the conclusion that we were once again trying to compete for the last seeds and fulfill the Gores playoff mandate again.

I stated at the time I disagreed and instead we were actually racing to the bottom of the East. Time will tell on that but so far so good.

Weaver came here to build a team, a organisation. So many are so quick to judge him as a GM based on 1 off-season! I find that hilarious on so many levels.
Crymson wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Could be so we don't have a whole bunch of kids competing with other kids for playing time?


No. Musa wouldn't have been competing for time in any event, unless he were to play extremely well in some unlikely scenario. Like Lee and Sirvydis, he would've been deep in the rotation and only with the team because the G-League isn't in operation.

Kids can't educate kids.


The Pistons would've had five veterans (Griffin, Rose, Grant, Plumlee, and Wright) guaranteed to play major roles in the rotation, plus Ellington from the bench. If that isn't enough, then the problem is the veterans themselves rather than the quantity of them. And I strongly doubt that the presence of one more prospect and one less veteran, particularly an NBA nobody like Mcgruder, would've tipped the balance for any NBA team in any situation.

That strategy hasn't worked for the Kings, Wolves, Wizards etc for years!


That claim isn't relevant, but I'll answer it anyway. With a single exception, the Kings have had numerous veterans in major roles in every season throughout the recent past. The single exception happened to be their most successful season of the past 15 years. That organization's protracted failure has chiefly come at the hands of incompetent management. The Wizards have not rebuilt; prior to the last two seasons, which were lost primarily due to injuries and poor rosters, they'd made the playoffs in four of the previous five campaigns and the second round in three of those.

The Timberwolves, like the Kings, have fallen victim primarily to dreadful mismanagement. They've had very young teams, but that's not inherently a recipe for failure. The Celtics teams of 2017-2018 and 2018-2019, for example, were composed chiefly of players on either rookie contracts or the initial years of rookie extensions, and it would be an understatement to declare that they did just fine. On the 2017-2018 roster, which barely missed qualifying for the Finals despite the absence of Kyrie Irving, only one of the team's top six players in total regular-season minutes was over the age of 25, four of the remaining five were on rookie contracts, and the leader in minutes was a rookie. The primaries on Milwaukee's rebuild rosters were likewise chiefly young. And so on.

There is no inherent rule here. And as noted, the Pistons would have had more than enough veterans in the rotation anyway. Too many, one could argue.

I believe any young team that wants to avoid the never ending cycle of lotto picks has to surround those kids with real pros.


McGruder is a fringe role player who has played all of 200 games in the NBA, has only one respectable season under his belt, and would very likely be out of the NBA this season had the Pistons kept Musa instead. He isn't a "real pro." He's barely NBA-caliber, and he's unlikely to see minutes this season unless there are a lot of injuries.


Now that I've answered your claims, answer me a question: why are you so eager to line up in defense of Casey and Weaver?


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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#55 » by Crymson » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:37 am

Pharaoh wrote:Didn't mention Casey at all so we'll go with my "defence" of Weaver. The roster he inherited sucked! Was trapped in the middle, not good enough to make noise in the playoffs and not bad enough to get a high pick in the Draft. So he detonated it in every way imaginable!


The roster he inherited was every bit bad enough to be one of the worst teams in the league. He made it better in a meaningless fashion through his veteran acquisitions, transactions that will serve the Pistons no purpose while torpedoing cap flexibility and presenting barriers to the youth.

I don't actually agree with every move and have stated so repeatedly despite so many ignoring those posts and claiming I only defend the FO and ignore:

Stetching Dedmon in order to sign Plumlee

Stetching Smith in order to sign Ellington


He stretched both of those players for the purpose of signing Grant and Plumlee, a duo toward which he effectively allocated $96.7 million against the cap over the next three seasons. For comparison's sake, they'll count against the cap for about as much as Anthony Davis next season. For no reason.

Signing Grant wasn't ever a thought for me after the Draft and because I didn't expect him to leave a contender for us! I'll let that play out though before I endlessly complain about it simply because he chose to bet on himself and I can respect that choice...until it messes up our situation in some way.


He's occupying a large chunk of cap space that could have been used toward purposes more conducive for a rebuild, he'll eat minutes that could otherwise go to prospects, his presence gives Casey yet another veteran to play ahead of the youth, and he'll be munching usage thanks to Weaver's promise. He came to Detroit because Weaver was willing to dramatically overpay him and promise him the opportunity for a major role, an equation in which the potential benefit for the Pistons remains unclear.

After free agency so many on here jumped to the conclusion that we were once again trying to compete for the last seeds and fulfill the Gores playoff mandate again.


I think the greater sentiment was that what Weaver did made very little sense in any capacity.

I stated at the time I disagreed and instead we were actually racing to the bottom of the East. Time will tell on that but so far so good.


While this roster will likely be bad, Weaver did not need to dump buckets of cash onto Plumlee and Grant in order to make it so. It was every bit bad enough (see: even worse) before his bizarre, costly free-agency extravaganza.

Weaver came here to build a team, a organisation. So many are so quick to judge him as a GM based on 1 off-season! I find that hilarious on so many levels.


Weaver came into the organization and, in his first offseason, made a series of utterly bizarre decisions that cost the Pistons a great deal of cap flexibility for no apparent gain and built a bizarre roster that will not best befit the youth development upon which this team's future depends. And that denunciation leaves aside the mistakes he made in the draft.

The course for the offseason, the first in a rebuild, was clear: acquire more assets in the draft, take fliers on underappreciated, underdeveloped, or untapped talent, sign some low-cost veterans to round out the roster and provide stability, maximally emphasize development, and maintain flexibility with which to make moves to acquire more assets. Weaver chose instead to take a rocketship to Mars. Does he have a vision? Sure. Does it make sense? Debatable. Is he competent? Entirely unclear, but I don't think it's looking good.

To be honest, I'm surprised to see you so wholeheartedly dedicate your confidence to Weaver after you did the very same with Van Gundy only to be confronted as was everyone else with the ultimate revelation that he was actually incompetent, and that his many decisions which appeared to make little sense appeared so because they genuinely did make little sense. But to each one's own.
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Re: Pistons Waive Dzanan Musa 

Post#56 » by UcanUwill » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:57 pm

Jstock12 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I actually liked Brown. Had no clue who this Musa guy was. Not gonna find out now

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Musa was the only Doncic's youth rival in Europe. They were considered to be comparable talents when they were both 14-15 years old... And then Doncic separated himself by a mile. But Musa is still a nice prospect imo, only 21 years old. It's a real shame he got waived.




I cant believe his NBA career has been so bad, he looked very decent in Balkans. Pistons signed Sirvydis but waived this man, now thats stupid.

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