The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

yoyoboy · Post #1521 » by **yoyoboy** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:07 pm

McGee and Dwight took the floor for about half the playoff minutes - that’s nothing to sneeze at. And in the regular season they were crucial in allowing Davis to be fresh for the playoffs by letting him play at the 4 for almost all of his minutes. Not sure why people are downplaying the importance of having productive centers so much.

Yeah it’s still early but the issue is Gasol just looks very old and slow, which is a continuation of how he looked in the bubble. Not sure how much you can expect him to improve athletically regardless of conditioning. He’s been getting targeted over and over in the preseason games and last night.

Firebird1 · Post #1522 » by **Firebird1** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:07 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
dcstanley wrote:
Heej wrote:Not gonna lie tho it's looking like choosing Gasol over Dwight might be a major mistake

Neither are playable in the playoffs against a team like the Clippers anyways. I think people forget how little value Dwight added in the playoffs.

He literally had one series where he did anything and it was in a super specific way that Marc might be flat out better at (from a statistical standpoint, but dwight did get in jokic's head hella).

Idg why people r really being like "but javale doe".

I think Gasol works alot better vs the bucks than dwight would, i think both are unplayable vs the clippers, and i didnr catch much of the nets game other than a few tidbits where they looked scary but

I just think the matchups where dwight>gasol are matchups neither llay, but gasol provides so much more offensively and in at least one of the top tier matchups (bucks) im way more confident in him than dwight

Im confident that gasol may bring more ball movement more

thebigbird · Post #1523 » by **thebigbird** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:20 pm

I need to see 25-30 games before I’m comfortable saying Gasol is cooked. I also want to see him against a team with a traditional big such as Denver or Philly. The Clippers arent a great matchup for a slow big like Gasol.

Overall, I’m not worried at all. Neither LeBron nor AD played well at all and the Lakers still made a game out of it. The bench looks VASTLY improved with the additions of Harrell and Schroder. The one thing I’d change though is to put Schroder on the bench to lead the second unit. Starting him with LeBron kind of seems like a waste. Having the bench be a net positive would be a huge advantage for them.

homecourtloss · Post #1524 » by **homecourtloss** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:21 pm

Firebird1 wrote:offense looks ugly as ****

With LeBron leading the offense, it looked just fine and that’s with LeBron going 50%, them not running LBJ/AD screen-roll game with Gasol in the corner, etc., etc. The thing I’d that the Lakers know this is a super quick turnaround for LBJ and AD so they are going to need heavy minutes from Schroeder. They ran a lot of offense through Schroeder and even let Gasol run some sets. When it comes to the playoffs, it will be LeBron creating shots like you saw in quarters 2 and 4 before he sat for good.

Additionally, the the small ball lineup sans AD but with LBJ/Caruso/THT/Kuzma and some Wes was swarming in that second quarter and looked really good.

Eventually, they’ll have to have Schroeder come off the bench and sub in for James when James sits at the 6 minute mark and start KCP/Caruso or KCP/Matthews in the backcourt.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #1525 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:49 pm

yoyoboy wrote:McGee and Dwight took the floor for about half the playoff minutes - that’s nothing to sneeze at. And in the regular season they were crucial in allowing Davis to be fresh for the playoffs by letting him play at the 4 for almost all of his minutes. Not sure why people are downplaying the importance of having productive centers so much.

Yeah it’s still early but the issue is Gasol just looks very old and slow, which is a continuation of how he looked in the bubble. Not sure how much you can expect him to improve athletically regardless of conditioning. He’s been getting targeted over and over in the preseason games and last night.

Mcgee played 13.3 minutes a game vs portland + g1 vs houstan.

Over the next 14 games he played a total of 55 minutes, of 672.

Dwight, same deal, expect its portland and denver

Dwight was crucial vs denver because of his ability to just yeet jokic in the post, which gasols been elite even last year

Dwight played 85 minutes outside of portland and denver, out of 528

In a playoff perspective, other than a gimme round 1 whwre we could have put out cacok and still win in 5, dwight had meaningful minutes in one series, agaibst miami the more they adjusted the lest they played dwight, mcgee didnt period. And that one series gasol could do what dwight did in terms of filling that role

The keeping AD fresh point is valid, but AD totally played the 5 last year in the RS a good chunk too, not more than half or anything but he had alot of minutes at the 5. The idea is we dont want him banging with centers anyway, gasol does rhat fine

Again, matchups gasol would struggle in dwight and mcgee would as well, matchups we need them for marc would be fine, he just provides more on offense. And theres pretty good reason to believe at least 1 of the big 4, marc would do well against (bucks).

People need to remember its not just that people had a short offseason, its that since no one knew when it was gonna start people didnt have enough time to get ready, and this is gonna effect old heads more.

Gasols gonna be fine, and hes a better player than dwight or mcgee are.

Id rather we get another minimum big, like dedmond just as a body, but its a quantity not quality thing.

Gasol would also do/did fine when the clippers run zubac.

Essentially, gasol>>>>>mcgee, maybe >dwight in situations where all three would play

They might be better in situatiins they shouldnt play. Defensively at least.

I think theres alot more value in one than the other

Offensively, its not a comparison

JLei · Post #1526 » by **JLei** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:16 pm

Actually thought the game was pretty encouraging for the regular season despite how ugly it was. As some have mentioned clearly they are far behind in terms of conditioning and familiarity playing with each other. Team is deep, legit 11 man rotation, they will win a lot of games with AD and Bron playing ~30 minutes.

I'm curious to see what the best lineups will look like though. For most of the best teams their best 5 is pretty apparent.

For the Lakers it will be Bron, AD, KCP and then no idea for the other 2. Right now it's looking like it's Kieff, Caruso which are like the 2 least talented players they have in the rotation. Kind of sucky that the 5 most talented guys in a vacuum (Bron, AD, KCP, Trezz, Schroder) is probably not the best lineup while for other teams their best 5 guys is generally the best lineup (or plays well together).

MyUniBroDavis · Post #1527 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:20 pm

JLei wrote:Actually thought the game was pretty encouraging for the regular season despite how ugly it was. As some have mentioned clearly they are far behind in terms of conditioning and familiarity playing with each other. Team is deep, legit 11 man rotation, they will win a lot of games with AD and Bron playing ~30 minutes.

I'm curious to see what the best lineups will look like though. For most of the best teams their best 5 is pretty apparent.

For the Lakers it will be Bron, AD, KCP and then no idea for the other 2. Right now it's looking like it's Kieff, Caruso which are like the 2 least talented players they have in the rotation. Kind of sucky that the 5 most talented guys in a vacuum (Bron, AD, KCP, Trezz, Schroder) is probably not the best lineup while for other teams their best 5 guys is generally the best lineup (or plays well together).

Kieff and caruso are the least talented but theyre stupid valuable. Kieff because hes solid defensively in alot of ways that the lakers can use and he gives them versatility with lineups, caruso does all the little things, and its cheesy but he really does

mademan · Post #1528 » by **mademan** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:26 pm

Ya, i thought it was encouraging, and i think they'd thump the Clips in a series. Honestly, AD might be the best defender for Kawhi in the league (save Giannis). Kawhi doesnt outquick you, he outlength and outstrengths, which is difficult to do against AD.

Going into a series depending on PG to be special is not a place the Clips wanna be in.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #1529 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:33 pm

mademan wrote:Ya, i thought it was encouraging, and i think they'd thump the Clips in a series. Honestly, AD might be the best defender for Kawhi in the league (save Giannis). Kawhi doesnt outquick you, he outlength and outstrengths, which is difficult to do against AD.

Going into a series depending on PG to be special is not a place the Clips wanna be in.

Why save giannis lol

Lowkey bron might be actually, brons stupid lockdown when he guards someone 1v1 now, even harden didnt go at him and only got past when bron tried to lead him to defense

JLei · Post #1530 » by **JLei** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:42 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
JLei wrote:Actually thought the game was pretty encouraging for the regular season despite how ugly it was. As some have mentioned clearly they are far behind in terms of conditioning and familiarity playing with each other. Team is deep, legit 11 man rotation, they will win a lot of games with AD and Bron playing ~30 minutes.

I'm curious to see what the best lineups will look like though. For most of the best teams their best 5 is pretty apparent.

For the Lakers it will be Bron, AD, KCP and then no idea for the other 2. Right now it's looking like it's Kieff, Caruso which are like the 2 least talented players they have in the rotation. Kind of sucky that the 5 most talented guys in a vacuum (Bron, AD, KCP, Trezz, Schroder) is probably not the best lineup while for other teams their best 5 guys is generally the best lineup (or plays well together).

Kieff and caruso are the least talented but theyre stupid valuable. Kieff because hes solid defensively in alot of ways that the lakers can use and he gives them versatility with lineups, caruso does all the little things, and its cheesy but he really does

They are. However you'd like for your best lineup to not include a couple of 8th/9th men at best on any other good playoff team. It places a cap on how good the Lakers ultimately be. And yes the 2 best players in the world can play next to anyone and have the best lineup but ideally you want them to play with talented players and they both provide space for each other to be unstoppable. Not playing less talented players because they will get out of the way of those 2. Ideally you want talented players that can also do that.

Greatness · Post #1531 » by **Greatness** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:59 pm

I kinda wanna see the Lakers try Schroder, KCP, Bron, Kuzma, AD as a closing 5.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #1532 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:00 pm

JLei wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
JLei wrote:Actually thought the game was pretty encouraging for the regular season despite how ugly it was. As some have mentioned clearly they are far behind in terms of conditioning and familiarity playing with each other. Team is deep, legit 11 man rotation, they will win a lot of games with AD and Bron playing ~30 minutes.

I'm curious to see what the best lineups will look like though. For most of the best teams their best 5 is pretty apparent.

For the Lakers it will be Bron, AD, KCP and then no idea for the other 2. Right now it's looking like it's Kieff, Caruso which are like the 2 least talented players they have in the rotation. Kind of sucky that the 5 most talented guys in a vacuum (Bron, AD, KCP, Trezz, Schroder) is probably not the best lineup while for other teams their best 5 guys is generally the best lineup (or plays well together).

Kieff and caruso are the least talented but theyre stupid valuable. Kieff because hes solid defensively in alot of ways that the lakers can use and he gives them versatility with lineups, caruso does all the little things, and its cheesy but he really does

They are. However you'd like for your best lineup to not include a couple of 8th/9th men at best on any other good playoff team. It places a cap on how good the Lakers ultimately be. And yes the 2 best players in the world can play next to anyone and have the best lineup but ideally you want them to play with talented players and they both provide space for each other to be unstoppable. Not playing less talented players because they will get out of the way of those 2. Ideally you want talented players that can also do that.

But the thing is they arent talented in the sense that they arent as good va an average joe

But caruso is genuinely one of the best defensive guards in the league, and offensively hes a smart screener and hes improved as a finisher and off ball. But the calling card is defense.

Markieff is similar in a vaccum but hes just a very good option as a guy that gives us lineup versatility, that not alot of guys in the league can replicate to the same level of success

Its like how a derozen js super talented but youd rather have a covington for our team, i think carusos probably one of our most key players in terms of consistency and what he brings to the table

Heej · Post #1533 » by **Heej** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:35 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
mademan wrote:Ya, i thought it was encouraging, and i think they'd thump the Clips in a series. Honestly, AD might be the best defender for Kawhi in the league (save Giannis). Kawhi doesnt outquick you, he outlength and outstrengths, which is difficult to do against AD.

Going into a series depending on PG to be special is not a place the Clips wanna be in.

Why save giannis lol

Lowkey bron might be actually, brons stupid lockdown when he guards someone 1v1 now, even harden didnt go at him and only got past when bron tried to lead him to defense

Yea I'm ngl I'll take Bron if it's a game that matters. He's capable of forcing Kawhi left into a contested stepback every time. AD is a little too high in the hips imo and Kawhi can get deep inside for his little short jumpers over him. Kawhi was short on a lot of his makeable shots yesterday too. I wonder if the short turnaround is gonna be harder on him more than anyone else this season. If they meet the Lakers in the WCF it's literally gonna take PG playing like the best guy in the series for them to win LMAO cuz I don't see Kawhi having the juice once it gets that deep in the season

Firebird1 · Post #1534 » by **Firebird1** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:47 pm

I really enjoyed watching this video. Kobe's narration is so good. :rock:

Watch on YouTube

If you don't have time to watch he basically says that LeBron style of play is like a kingdom while GSW style of play is like democracy.

Greyhound · Post #1535 » by **Greyhound** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:17 pm

yoyoboy wrote:McGee and Dwight took the floor for about half the playoff minutes - that’s nothing to sneeze at. And in the regular season they were crucial in allowing Davis to be fresh for the playoffs by letting him play at the 4 for almost all of his minutes. Not sure why people are downplaying the importance of having productive centers so much.

Yeah it’s still early but the issue is Gasol just looks very old and slow, which is a continuation of how he looked in the bubble. Not sure how much you can expect him to improve athletically regardless of conditioning. He’s been getting targeted over and over in the preseason games and last night.

I see things exactly as you do.

People keep harping on how Howard and McGee were unplayable in the playoffs, but they contributed what they could. Their regular season contributions benefited more than just Anthony Davis (in terms of preservation).

Their reliable back line support (in conjunction with Davis) allowed the team to play more of a funneling style of defense (focused on ball pressure and hard close outs to shooters).

Without that overwhelmingly athletic back line/ shot blocking presence, the other players on the team will have to play a more energetic defensive style to compensate. That will be more taxing on everyone.

Closing out to the shooter (running them off the three) is a lot easier when you know that back line shot blocking is going to be there. Without it, players will have to close out conservatively (out of concern of giving up penetration). Threes will be surrendered with greater frequency, blow by instances will happen more often. It’s a trickle down effect that will ultimately weaken the entire defense.

How much is the question.

It’s true that’s less needed for most postseason matchups. LeBron and Anthony Davis play with great intensity in the postseason to compensate for that loss.

Expecting them to do that for an entire regular season is not realistic. They will dial back to standard regular season intensity, and that is when the slippage will show.

...

All of that being said, I was encouraged with the play of both LeBron James and Anthony Davis. They are not there, but you could see that they will get there soon (sooner then expected, by me)

Harrell and Schroder were a bright spot as well. I think they need to be a package deal off the bench.

Gasol and Matthews were concerning, Gasol in particular. I will give it about 10 games to properly assess him... but it’s looking like he may be more of a 14 minutes a night backup, then the 20 minutes a night starter that was hoped.

trickshot · Post #1536 » by **trickshot** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:43 am

Watching Dwight on the 6ers he was a loss for the Lakers. Finishes strong and isn't a liability when asked to cover shooters. Definitely took that for granted. Vogel said Gasol won't be asked to guard stretch bigs anymore which is a step in the right direction to utilising him better but there's no hiding the fact he'll have to be protected against many matchups

LikeABosh · Post #1537 » by **LikeABosh** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:35 am

Schroder's passing was fantastic. Lakers aren't gonna miss Rondo at all.

Haven't changed my mind on Gasol. I said he was only gonna be good situationally. That's still probably true

PistolPeteJR · Post #1538 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:28 am

Heej wrote:Not gonna lie tho it's looking like choosing Gasol over Dwight might be a major mistake

That is not what happened. Dwight was hasty instead of waiting a few hours in FA.

PistolPeteJR · Post #1539 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:30 am

Glad to see some usual overreacting culprits dumb it down so far lol, despite some others continuing down that path...

Game ONE of SEVENTY-TWO after a SHORT OFFSEASON and MANY NEW PLAYERS to incorporate. Chill folks lol.

colts18 · Post #1540 » by **colts18** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:17 am

PistolPeteJR wrote:Glad to see some usual overreacting culprits dumb it down so far lol, despite some others continuing down that path...

Game ONE of SEVENTY-TWO after a SHORT OFFSEASON and MANY NEW PLAYERS to incorporate. Chill folks lol.

I swear no one on RealGM ever learns the lesson. Rule #1 of RealGM: Never overreact to 1 game. After every game, everyone has a take: Clippers are gonna win a title. OR Lakers are dominant, no one else has a chance. I been here long enough to know that everyone overreacts to each game. Focus on the long term trend rather 1 game. If the consensus on this board favors one side, always bet the other side because the consensus sucks.