Preseason Game 4: Charlotte Hornets (1-2) at Orlando Magic (1-2)

[Knightro]

kid is 20 yrs old and 4 games into rookie year. his court vision can increase. or he can embrace a Louis Williams type of role.

Court vision is not something I feel like really improves dramatically over time because it's just not something you can really drill. It's much more of an innate feel thing.

Anthony, at least to me, looks like a small shooting guard. But that's ok! He can have a lot of success in the NBA at that exact role if he keeps developing his shooting, FT rate and finishing.

[j-ragg]

Nothing wrong with not being a high assist guy. Especially next to Fultz who seems like Cliff has molded into a "slow it down, set up the (rudimentary) offense" type of pg for better or worse.

[Max Power]

Haven’t had the chance to watch the team yet, but if Anthony can help our bench score a little bit like he has that’ll help a lot, although our bench did blow a 30 point lead last night. Props to Anthony for being fearless out there. That’s an attribute, now if he can just gell with the team while being an igniter.

[nemesis37]

This team was missing a guy like Cole from a longo time. Kid can get buckets and is not affraid of bem "the guy" to take the shot. If he os really this clutch a good nickname could be "Cold Cole".

I really like Markele's game so far this offseason. He really looks like calm and really confident. His pick and roll/pop game with Vuc has been really nice.

[yoyojw17]

kid is 20 yrs old and 4 games into rookie year. his court vision can increase. or he can embrace a Louis Williams type of role.

Court vision is not something I feel like really improves dramatically over time because it's just not something you can really drill. It's much more of an innate feel thing.

Anthony, at least to me, looks like a small shooting guard. But that's ok! He can have a lot of success in the NBA at that exact role if he keeps developing his shooting, FT rate, and finishing.

He will get better... just with comfort of the game... building more confidence.... experience. They all increase over time. How much... we'll have to wait and see. But he had a terrific preseason... especially if you ignore the first game he played. one thing i know... he loves the game... he is fearless and has no fears of going out and getting us a bucket.

[Bensational]

kid is 20 yrs old and 4 games into rookie year. his court vision can increase. or he can embrace a Louis Williams type of role.

Court vision is not something I feel like really improves dramatically over time because it's just not something you can really drill. It's much more of an innate feel thing.

Anthony, at least to me, looks like a small shooting guard. But that's ok! He can have a lot of success in the NBA at that exact role if he keeps developing his shooting, FT rate and finishing.

I think once he and the team see how defenses respond to him, he will be able to increase his awareness of knowing where open teammates will be, and the team will know how to get better open for him.

It won't make him a high assist guy or increase his vision, but it will improve his passing/playmaking awareness.

I'm very interested to see what kind of influence his play has on others, like Fultz and Bamba. Will it inspire a new level from them? Will Fultz feel like his job is under threat and step up in this contract year?

[Xatticus]

I actually agree with Pepe on the fact that Trae Young has had a bad preseason. But I'm not interested in the Hawks, I'm pretty sure they will still be a bottom of the barrel team in the Eastern Conference this year, but that is besides the point.

What I do care about is our rookies, now I know nobody mentioned Okeke, but he had some great passes to the open man, and setting people up during the preseason. There are flashes of him being at least being capable of solid passing, he also had a few good defensive moments, sure not as many as I had wanted, but he does play defense and he can hit shots when he needs to. These things will help him get on a basketball court and keep him in the NBA, all he needs to do is get rid of that hesitation, but I believe in the kid, and believe he will make the next step sometime this season.

Now, the real revelation, Cole is better than Lamelo. In this small sample size, let me be real with you, we have seen Cole have one bad game, and then play pretty damn well for three straight games. The kid has done it efficiently as well, scoring from all over the court. Penetration, off the dribble threes, catch and shoot, at the free throw line, name it, and offensively he has done it for us in the preseason. Has he had some turnover problems, sure, and defensively has he had some issues, sure. But I would say the defensive issues are overblown, he was there with his guy, and was actually playing defense, it just so happened he was guarding two extremely hot shooters last night. Turnovers, I expect them from a rookie guard who is adjusting to play in the NBA with actual athletes, and he had turnovers.

But still, what Cole has shown me in four games is growth, and improvement. He had a bad game and a lot of you guys were pointing at that and basically calling his potential from that performance, but then he had a string of good, and I would say last night's game was great, games. He put up points efficiently, sure he isn't a passing machine, but he did have four assists, and he was willing to take big shots and played with passion that sometimes I don't think this team has had when it comes to the big moment.

Lamelo on the other hand, is almost a turnover machine, sure he is a rookie guard, but he played in a pro league so it shouldn't be this bad? Right? He had one good scoring game and it was against us, but the other three games he looked average to abysmal as a scorer. Sure, he makes shiny passes, and has a knack for that, but if that is all you are people know to just play 4 on 5 defensively and dare you to make shots. And defensively? All night Cole was taking Lamelo's lunch money and kissing his girl in front of him. This was not even a close display between the two and if I'm Cole Anthony I'm looking at this game last night, and laughing myself to the bank because in my mind he proved he was better, at least for now, between the two of them.

Ehh... That wasn't really a good performance from Anthony last night.

I get that there are certain things that stick out in the minds of viewers and that hitting a game-winning shot is going to resonate more than the myriad of subtle actions that take place over the course of a game that effect the outcome. There are biases in perception that allow us to overvalue the importance of particular plays or simply by observing someone hoist up field goal attempts regularly. This allows us to give an inordinate share of the credit for a performance to a particular individual. This is how someone like Kobe Bryant has a segment of the basketball-viewing population believing that he was one of the greatest to have ever played.

The reality is that his turnovers did more harm than the good done by his efficiency on his field goal attempts. We averaged 1.06 points per possession last year. A possession with a turnover yields zero points. The reality is that the foul he committed on Graham at the end of the first quarter was almost a full 3-point swing because the expected value for the Hornets final possession of that quarter was very low. That's a losing play. The reality is that we were scorched when he was on the floor last night.

I'm not all that invested in criticizing Anthony, but last night's performance didn't really provide good evidence for which to praise him. He has to play much better than that if he is going to replicate what Augustin gave us last year. I think there are positive things about his game to take away from this preseason: he isn't reluctant to shoot and he shot pretty well. He also plays with good energy. That said, he has a long way to go before he will positively impact the outcome of games. Keep in mind that Utah fans were enamored with Trey Burke at one point.

[Xatticus]

kid is 20 yrs old and 4 games into rookie year. his court vision can increase. or he can embrace a Louis Williams type of role.

Court vision is not something I feel like really improves dramatically over time because it's just not something you can really drill. It's much more of an innate feel thing.

Anthony, at least to me, looks like a small shooting guard. But that's ok! He can have a lot of success in the NBA at that exact role if he keeps developing his shooting, FT rate and finishing.

I would agree with that, though I do believe you can significantly improve someone's understanding. There is an order to everything that happens on a basketball court and by understanding that order, everything slows down and looks far less chaotic. This is how Gordon and Vucevic have seen spikes in their assist rates over the course of their careers. You just have to get better at making your reads and getting the ball where it needs to go. I doubt you can teach what LaMelo has, but I think Anthony could still learn to run an offense. He will probably always be a guy that goes out and tries to get his first, so I think there is a ceiling to how good he could become, but if he can just learn to recognize where help is coming from and take advantage of that, he could become an above average offensive player.

LaMelo sees openings before they are there, which is just really special. His ceiling is exceptionally high, but so many parts of his game are rudimentary. I thought his effort at the defensive end was solid, which is an improvement, but he was still really bad.

[ARandomStranger]

I actually agree with Pepe on the fact that Trae Young has had a bad preseason. But I'm not interested in the Hawks, I'm pretty sure they will still be a bottom of the barrel team in the Eastern Conference this year, but that is besides the point.

What I do care about is our rookies, now I know nobody mentioned Okeke, but he had some great passes to the open man, and setting people up during the preseason. There are flashes of him being at least being capable of solid passing, he also had a few good defensive moments, sure not as many as I had wanted, but he does play defense and he can hit shots when he needs to. These things will help him get on a basketball court and keep him in the NBA, all he needs to do is get rid of that hesitation, but I believe in the kid, and believe he will make the next step sometime this season.

Now, the real revelation, Cole is better than Lamelo. In this small sample size, let me be real with you, we have seen Cole have one bad game, and then play pretty damn well for three straight games. The kid has done it efficiently as well, scoring from all over the court. Penetration, off the dribble threes, catch and shoot, at the free throw line, name it, and offensively he has done it for us in the preseason. Has he had some turnover problems, sure, and defensively has he had some issues, sure. But I would say the defensive issues are overblown, he was there with his guy, and was actually playing defense, it just so happened he was guarding two extremely hot shooters last night. Turnovers, I expect them from a rookie guard who is adjusting to play in the NBA with actual athletes, and he had turnovers.

But still, what Cole has shown me in four games is growth, and improvement. He had a bad game and a lot of you guys were pointing at that and basically calling his potential from that performance, but then he had a string of good, and I would say last night's game was great, games. He put up points efficiently, sure he isn't a passing machine, but he did have four assists, and he was willing to take big shots and played with passion that sometimes I don't think this team has had when it comes to the big moment.

Lamelo on the other hand, is almost a turnover machine, sure he is a rookie guard, but he played in a pro league so it shouldn't be this bad? Right? He had one good scoring game and it was against us, but the other three games he looked average to abysmal as a scorer. Sure, he makes shiny passes, and has a knack for that, but if that is all you are people know to just play 4 on 5 defensively and dare you to make shots. And defensively? All night Cole was taking Lamelo's lunch money and kissing his girl in front of him. This was not even a close display between the two and if I'm Cole Anthony I'm looking at this game last night, and laughing myself to the bank because in my mind he proved he was better, at least for now, between the two of them.

Ehh... That wasn't really a good performance from Anthony last night.

I get that there are certain things that stick out in the minds of viewers and that hitting a game-winning shot is going to resonate more than the myriad of subtle actions that take place over the course of a game that effect the outcome. There are biases in perception that allow us to overvalue the importance of particular plays or simply by observing someone hoist up field goal attempts regularly. This allows us to give an inordinate share of the credit for a performance to a particular individual. This is how someone like Kobe Bryant has a segment of the basketball-viewing population believing that he was one of the greatest to have ever played.

The reality is that his turnovers did more harm than the good done by his efficiency on his field goal attempts. We averaged 1.06 points per possession last year. A possession with a turnover yields zero points. The reality is that the foul he committed on Graham at the end of the first quarter was almost a full 3-point swing because the expected value for the Hornets final possession of that quarter was very low. That's a losing play. The reality is that we were scorched when he was on the floor last night.

I'm not all that invested in criticizing Anthony, but last night's performance didn't really provide good evidence for which to praise him. He has to play much better than that if he is going to replicate what Augustin gave us last year. I think there are positive things about his game to take away from this preseason: he isn't reluctant to shoot and he shot pretty well. He also plays with good energy. That said, he has a long way to go before he will positively impact the outcome of games. Keep in mind that Utah fans were enamored with Trey Burke at one point.

I agree with you on turnovers, but I will continue to harp on the lack of fear to take big shots. We have had guys over the years who are too passive and are unwilling to look for their own, but now we have a guy who is not afraid to take the shots that no one will take due to passivity.

As I highlighted as well, I expect turnovers from rookie point guards and just as long as they bring something to the table, be it defense, or scoring, I am fine with turnovers as they adjust to the league and the playstyle of the the big leagues. It was a combination of Cole doing a little of everything. He passed decently, shot the ball well, and while he had to guard two nuclear shooters he still had two steals. He also had a major rebound at the end of regulation to help seal the win.

What I'm trying to say for every bad play he had, he seemed to have a good one, and while he had some nasty turnovers I believe he can, and will clean that up by about the midpoint of the season. And if he does that his impact will be felt and he could easily put himself in conversation for RoY.

[yoyojw17]

I actually agree with Pepe on the fact that Trae Young has had a bad preseason. But I'm not interested in the Hawks, I'm pretty sure they will still be a bottom of the barrel team in the Eastern Conference this year, but that is besides the point.

What I do care about is our rookies, now I know nobody mentioned Okeke, but he had some great passes to the open man, and setting people up during the preseason. There are flashes of him being at least being capable of solid passing, he also had a few good defensive moments, sure not as many as I had wanted, but he does play defense and he can hit shots when he needs to. These things will help him get on a basketball court and keep him in the NBA, all he needs to do is get rid of that hesitation, but I believe in the kid, and believe he will make the next step sometime this season.

Now, the real revelation, Cole is better than Lamelo. In this small sample size, let me be real with you, we have seen Cole have one bad game, and then play pretty damn well for three straight games. The kid has done it efficiently as well, scoring from all over the court. Penetration, off the dribble threes, catch and shoot, at the free throw line, name it, and offensively he has done it for us in the preseason. Has he had some turnover problems, sure, and defensively has he had some issues, sure. But I would say the defensive issues are overblown, he was there with his guy, and was actually playing defense, it just so happened he was guarding two extremely hot shooters last night. Turnovers, I expect them from a rookie guard who is adjusting to play in the NBA with actual athletes, and he had turnovers.

But still, what Cole has shown me in four games is growth, and improvement. He had a bad game and a lot of you guys were pointing at that and basically calling his potential from that performance, but then he had a string of good, and I would say last night's game was great, games. He put up points efficiently, sure he isn't a passing machine, but he did have four assists, and he was willing to take big shots and played with passion that sometimes I don't think this team has had when it comes to the big moment.

Lamelo on the other hand, is almost a turnover machine, sure he is a rookie guard, but he played in a pro league so it shouldn't be this bad? Right? He had one good scoring game and it was against us, but the other three games he looked average to abysmal as a scorer. Sure, he makes shiny passes, and has a knack for that, but if that is all you are people know to just play 4 on 5 defensively and dare you to make shots. And defensively? All night Cole was taking Lamelo's lunch money and kissing his girl in front of him. This was not even a close display between the two and if I'm Cole Anthony I'm looking at this game last night, and laughing myself to the bank because in my mind he proved he was better, at least for now, between the two of them.

Ehh... That wasn't really a good performance from Anthony last night.

I get that there are certain things that stick out in the minds of viewers and that hitting a game-winning shot is going to resonate more than the myriad of subtle actions that take place over the course of a game that effect the outcome. There are biases in perception that allow us to overvalue the importance of particular plays or simply by observing someone hoist up field goal attempts regularly. This allows us to give an inordinate share of the credit for a performance to a particular individual. This is how someone like Kobe Bryant has a segment of the basketball-viewing population believing that he was one of the greatest to have ever played.

The reality is that his turnovers did more harm than the good done by his efficiency on his field goal attempts. We averaged 1.06 points per possession last year. A possession with a turnover yields zero points. The reality is that the foul he committed on Graham at the end of the first quarter was almost a full 3-point swing because the expected value for the Hornets final possession of that quarter was very low. That's a losing play. The reality is that we were scorched when he was on the floor last night.

I'm not all that invested in criticizing Anthony, but last night's performance didn't really provide good evidence for which to praise him. He has to play much better than that if he is going to replicate what Augustin gave us last year. I think there are positive things about his game to take away from this preseason: he isn't reluctant to shoot and he shot pretty well. He also plays with good energy. That said, he has a long way to go before he will positively impact the outcome of games. Keep in mind that Utah fans were enamored with Trey Burke at one point.

I agree with you on turnovers, but I will continue to harp on the lack of fear to take big shots. We have had guys over the years who are too passive and are unwilling to look for their own, but now we have a guy who is not afraid to take the shots that no one will take due to passivity.

As I highlighted as well, I expect turnovers from rookie point guards and just as long as they bring something to the table, be it defense, or scoring, I am fine with turnovers as they adjust to the league and the playstyle of the the big leagues. It was a combination of Cole doing a little of everything. He passed decently, shot the ball well, and while he had to guard two nuclear shooters he still had two steals. He also had a major rebound at the end of regulation to help seal the win.

What I'm trying to say for every bad play he had, he seemed to have a good one, and while he had some nasty turnovers I believe he can, and will clean that up by about the midpoint of the season. And if he does that his impact will be felt and he could easily put himself in conversation for RoY.

He is a really nice guy from all that i've seen..... but on the court.... he has Ice coursing through his veins. Mix that with the desire to be the best.... and the talent to get him there.... sounds like a recipe for success. Let's see if it all comes together.

[swarlesbarkley]

ugh at least preseason is over and we no longer have to be punished by watching our mediocrities going against even worst teams.

It sucks that you could only play against 2 teams in preseason, especially when both are even worst..
I'm watching this Memphis- Hawks game and man, Hawks have lot of things to fix.
Especially Young who only is "effective" if he shoots 30 times a night. His preseason has been disaster. Collins is close second in playing terrible.

You keep bringing up Trae in non-Trae, non-Atlanta threads seemingly just to try defend that you were right about him 2+ years ago. Give it up, he's good, you were wrong about him - it's OK to admit it once. Also - no one in this thread wants to talk about Trae or the Hawks.

Umm, they play same conference as we, they are in same division as we, and they are projected to fight us for playoffs. So your point is?
Trae is having pathetic preseason. That's factual. Guy can't really shoot that well on low usage and he fouled out in 22 min.
All over this place there are multiple comments about Beal, Westbrook, Ball, so what's the difference?

Trae with 37 points in 26 minutes on 10 of 12 shooting tonight.

[pepe1991]

You keep bringing up Trae in non-Trae, non-Atlanta threads seemingly just to try defend that you were right about him 2+ years ago. Give it up, he's good, you were wrong about him - it's OK to admit it once. Also - no one in this thread wants to talk about Trae or the Hawks.

Umm, they play same conference as we, they are in same division as we, and they are projected to fight us for playoffs. So your point is?
Trae is having pathetic preseason. That's factual. Guy can't really shoot that well on low usage and he fouled out in 22 min.
All over this place there are multiple comments about Beal, Westbrook, Ball, so what's the difference?

Trae with 37 points in 26 minutes on 10 of 12 shooting tonight.

On 12 shots is most important aspect. Great game by him.


btw i aslo said Coby White is no good, but i assume you won't be calling out that

[swarlesbarkley]

Umm, they play same conference as we, they are in same division as we, and they are projected to fight us for playoffs. So your point is?
Trae is having pathetic preseason. That's factual. Guy can't really shoot that well on low usage and he fouled out in 22 min.
All over this place there are multiple comments about Beal, Westbrook, Ball, so what's the difference?

Trae with 37 points in 26 minutes on 10 of 12 shooting tonight.

On 12 shots is most important aspect. Great game by him.


btw i aslo said Coby White is no good, but i assume you won't be calling out that

Just take the L honorably homie. I have no idea when you brought up Coby White but I know you've been talking trash about Trae in multiple threads. I can't keep track of all the players you trash to congratulate you when you're rarely right.

[pepe1991]

Trae with 37 points in 26 minutes on 10 of 12 shooting tonight.

On 12 shots is most important aspect. Great game by him.


btw i aslo said Coby White is no good, but i assume you won't be calling out that

Just take the L honorably homie. I have no idea when you brought up Coby White but I know you've been talking trash about Trae in multiple threads. I can't keep track of all the players you trash to congratulate you when you're rarely right.

Player had great game . I wrote " great game by him".

Rarely right? ah. Sure.

I still remember losing my mind arguing everybody about Andrew Wiggins. For 4 years. #FutureKobe

You have to be special type of no lifer to search through preseason thread just to tell me "haa-haa" .
Get a life bro.

[swarlesbarkley]

On 12 shots is most important aspect. Great game by him.


btw i aslo said Coby White is no good, but i assume you won't be calling out that

Just take the L honorably homie. I have no idea when you brought up Coby White but I know you've been talking trash about Trae in multiple threads. I can't keep track of all the players you trash to congratulate you when you're rarely right.

Player had great game . I wrote " great game by him".

Rarely right? ah. Sure.

I still remember losing my mind arguing everybody about Andrew Wiggins. For 4 years. #FutureKobe

You have to be special type of no lifer to search through preseason thread just to tell me "haa-haa" .
Get a life bro.

Right. And then you had to include how you think you're right about Coby White being trash when you didn't even talk about him in this thread and I never mentioned anything about Coby in our conversation - just need to try and boost your ego a bit after seeing Trae go off tonight.

And this thread is 4 days old. It wasn't that difficult to find considering your comments were memorable because of how terrible your takes were.

[pepe1991]

Just take the L honorably homie. I have no idea when you brought up Coby White but I know you've been talking trash about Trae in multiple threads. I can't keep track of all the players you trash to congratulate you when you're rarely right.

Player had great game . I wrote " great game by him".

Rarely right? ah. Sure.

I still remember losing my mind arguing everybody about Andrew Wiggins. For 4 years. #FutureKobe

You have to be special type of no lifer to search through preseason thread just to tell me "haa-haa" .
Get a life bro.

Right. And then you had to include how you think you're right about Coby White being trash when you didn't even talk about him in this thread and I never mentioned anything about Coby in our conversation - just need to try and boost your ego a bit after seeing Trae go off tonight.

And this thread is 4 days old. It wasn't that difficult to find considering your comments were memorable because of how terrible your takes were.

Only person who is boosting ego based on one game is you buddy

[swarlesbarkley]

Player had great game . I wrote " great game by him".

Rarely right? ah. Sure.

I still remember losing my mind arguing everybody about Andrew Wiggins. For 4 years. #FutureKobe

You have to be special type of no lifer to search through preseason thread just to tell me "haa-haa" .
Get a life bro.

Right. And then you had to include how you think you're right about Coby White being trash when you didn't even talk about him in this thread and I never mentioned anything about Coby in our conversation - just need to try and boost your ego a bit after seeing Trae go off tonight.

And this thread is 4 days old. It wasn't that difficult to find considering your comments were memorable because of how terrible your takes were.

Only person who is boosting ego based on one game is you buddy

But what about Coby White? And remember that time 6 years ago when you were right about Wiggins? Non-sequitur comments to "prove" you were right about something at some point = ego boost. Absolutely not necessary and add nothing to our conversation about Trae. Only purpose is to "prove" your knowledge about something... else.

I only bring it up because you speak with such hubris and fake authority around here that it needs to be checked every so often.

I realize that it was just one game for Trae but 37 points on 12 shots has literally never been done before and you were trashing him for his low efficiency.

[pepe1991]

Right. And then you had to include how you think you're right about Coby White being trash when you didn't even talk about him in this thread and I never mentioned anything about Coby in our conversation - just need to try and boost your ego a bit after seeing Trae go off tonight.

And this thread is 4 days old. It wasn't that difficult to find considering your comments were memorable because of how terrible your takes were.

Only person who is boosting ego based on one game is you buddy

But what about Coby White? And remember that time 6 years ago when you were right about Wiggins? Non-sequitur comments to "prove" you were right about something at some point = ego boost. Absolutely not necessary and add nothing to our conversation about Trae. Only purpose is to "prove" your knowledge about something... else.

I only bring it up because you speak with such hubris and fake authority around here that it needs to be checked every so often.

I realize that it was just one game for Trae but 37 points on 12 shots has literally never been done before and you were trashing him for his low efficiency.

Yet you still busting nuts of happiness that you proved me wrong, using one game. Vs Bulls, team projected to win 25 games...

[swarlesbarkley]

Only person who is boosting ego based on one game is you buddy

But what about Coby White? And remember that time 6 years ago when you were right about Wiggins? Non-sequitur comments to "prove" you were right about something at some point = ego boost. Absolutely not necessary and add nothing to our conversation about Trae. Only purpose is to "prove" your knowledge about something... else.

I only bring it up because you speak with such hubris and fake authority around here that it needs to be checked every so often.

I realize that it was just one game for Trae but 37 points on 12 shots has literally never been done before and you were trashing him for his low efficiency.

Yet you still busting nuts of happiness that you proved me wrong, using one game. Vs Bulls, team projected to win 25 games...

If that's your stance then I guess a bunch of low efficiency players will be doing the same as Trae against Chicago this year, right?