Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

[cjbulls]

Didn't see the game but good on him for actually having a good offensive game but the fact he was that efficient yet still had a team worst +/- is very interesting.

No it's not. Zach had the 2nd best game and 2nd worst plus/minus. PW had the 3rd best game and 3rd worst +/-.

Box plus minus, especially in a blowout, is meaningless for a number of reasons.

[ArtMorte]

The plus-minus stat is totally useless, imo, you could play lockdown defense on your man and end up -50 if your teammates allow buckets left, right and center.

[coldfish]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

[dougthonus]

Here’s the transcript from Bulls Talk Live Podcast I posted earlier in the thread

KC: I mean, yeah (stammering a bit). An offer was made, I mean, from my understanding it was not what (stopping himself) it wouldn't, be considered, uhh, a very high offer.

Goff: Exactly So the Bulls but it was sort of like, yeah, I got you. We had to do this.

KC: Yeah.

Goff: Yeah, I've gotten similar offers. And I went away.

So the number you quoted was just made up?

I never quoted a number, you did. Read the history

I'd take Portis on at $4 mil and $14M in cap room to spend over Lauri at $18M.

My mistake, I misread your post. I thought you said 18M based on KC's reporting, not that you were inferring 18M was high based on KC's reporting. My apologies on the misread.

[Louri]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

Was waiting for this. When there is nothing else to bash, try with D.

”He kills team”. Really? I thought Bulls have so bad players overall that they do it together.

[coldfish]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

Was waiting for this. When there is nothing else to bash, try with D.

”He kills team”. Really? I thought Bulls have so bad players overall that they do it together.

Lauri's team numbers are terrible and have been since he came into the league. Over the course of the season, he hurts the team more than he helps it. This is why. He is a streaky offensive player and a consistently bad defensive one. People in the past have asked for examples when they don't believe the statistics. Well, there it is.

[PaKii94]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

See I agree that's bad defense on the cleanup but the point where the defense breaks first is again the guards. If archi doesn't bite on the pump fake we don't have that situation. This was what I pointed out in my defense thread and it was continually happening with our starting guards too. And then compound it with the horrendous turnovers and it was game over from the jump.

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings. The benefit of Lauri is the efficient offense (if he can get the ball) and passable defense (if not over extended). A la trae young. If trae was only used as a corner spacer/shooter and then put on the toughest defensive assignments I don't think he would be looked at the same way either.

[ZOMG]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

See I agree that's bad defense on the cleanup but the point where the defense breaks first is again the guards. If archi doesn't bite on the pump fake we don't have that situation. This was what I pointed out in my defense thread and it was continually happening with our starting guards too. And then compound it with the horrendous turnovers and it was game over from the jump.

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings. The benefit of Lauri is the efficient offense (if he can get the ball) and passable defense (if not over extended). A la trae young. If trae was only used as a corner spacer/shooter and then put on the toughest defensive assignments I don't think he would be looked at the same way either.

It should be a point of pride for our guards to stay in front of their guys. This is the NBA so it's not always even possible, but you have to TRY. The endless biting on fakes had me tearing my hair out. Trae was mentally so far ahead of Coby in these situations that it's not funny.

[coldfish]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

See I agree that's bad defense on the cleanup but the point where the defense breaks first is again the guards. If archi doesn't bite on the pump fake we don't have that situation. This was what I pointed out in my defense thread and it was continually happening with our starting guards too. And then compound it with the horrendous turnovers and it was game over from the jump.

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings. The benefit of Lauri is the efficient offense (if he can get the ball) and passable defense (if not over extended). A la trae young. If trae was only used as a corner spacer/shooter and then put on the toughest defensive assignments I don't think he would be looked at the same way either.

This isn't realistic. The number 1 weapon in the NBA is the 3 pointer. That means that guards have to close out hard and go over screens to contest outside shots. Off ball defenders HAVE to help because you are giving up the drive. Its simply not a skill that a C/PF/SF can choose not to have.

I gave the example, now I'll repeat the stat. Lauri ranked 309th in the NBA for defensive rpm last year. Accounting for his teammates, he is still really bad at that side of the court.

The above sequence is likely why PW is starting over Otto. It wasn't just Lauri screwing up there.

[ZOMG]

I put this in the postgame thread but it belongs here too.

Watch on YouTube

If you go to 1:50 or so, you will see a play where its an open 3, a good closeout and a drive. 3 Bulls are in position to defend the drive and all of them actively choose not to as you can see their heads are pointed right at the ball handler. This kind of stuff goes on all the time and always has with Lauri. Its a big part of the reason why he is a net negative player over the long term. When he shoots well, he makes up for this but when he doesn't, he kills the team. IMO, he is frequently so far out of the play that fans don't realize that he was supposed to be helping.

I'm not looking for Ben Wallace here. Just some type of effort. High school coaches would be furious at that sequence. Junior high too.

See I agree that's bad defense on the cleanup but the point where the defense breaks first is again the guards. If archi doesn't bite on the pump fake we don't have that situation. This was what I pointed out in my defense thread and it was continually happening with our starting guards too. And then compound it with the horrendous turnovers and it was game over from the jump.

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings. The benefit of Lauri is the efficient offense (if he can get the ball) and passable defense (if not over extended). A la trae young. If trae was only used as a corner spacer/shooter and then put on the toughest defensive assignments I don't think he would be looked at the same way either.

This isn't realistic. The number 1 weapon in the NBA is the 3 pointer. That means that guards have to close out hard and go over screens to contest outside shots. Off ball defenders HAVE to help because you are giving up the drive. Its simply not a skill that a C/PF/SF can choose not to have.

I gave the example, now I'll repeat the stat. Lauri ranked 309th in the NBA for defensive rpm last year. Accounting for his teammates, he is still really bad at that side of the court.

The above sequence is likely why PW is starting over Otto. It wasn't just Lauri screwing up there.

Well, this is the trouble with defending teams that have shooting at every position (unlike the Bulls). You have to trust your rotations. So far there's zero reasons to trust them on this team.

When Lauri's on the wing guarding Gallinari, who's an absolutely lethal perimeter shooter, leaving him to jump on the driving path of a 6'1'' guard isn't a great idea. Yeah, there should be then be a rotation to Gallo - but usually thats not what happens. Not quickly enough, at least.

It all starts on the perimeter. We can't give up drives this easily. ATL players got the step whenever they wanted.

[coldfish]

See I agree that's bad defense on the cleanup but the point where the defense breaks first is again the guards. If archi doesn't bite on the pump fake we don't have that situation. This was what I pointed out in my defense thread and it was continually happening with our starting guards too. And then compound it with the horrendous turnovers and it was game over from the jump.

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings. The benefit of Lauri is the efficient offense (if he can get the ball) and passable defense (if not over extended). A la trae young. If trae was only used as a corner spacer/shooter and then put on the toughest defensive assignments I don't think he would be looked at the same way either.

This isn't realistic. The number 1 weapon in the NBA is the 3 pointer. That means that guards have to close out hard and go over screens to contest outside shots. Off ball defenders HAVE to help because you are giving up the drive. Its simply not a skill that a C/PF/SF can choose not to have.

I gave the example, now I'll repeat the stat. Lauri ranked 309th in the NBA for defensive rpm last year. Accounting for his teammates, he is still really bad at that side of the court.

The above sequence is likely why PW is starting over Otto. It wasn't just Lauri screwing up there.

Well, this is the trouble with defending teams that have shooting at every position (unlike the Bulls). You have to trust your rotations. So far there's zero reasons to trust them on this team.

When Lauri's on the wing guarding Gallinari, who's an absolutely lethal perimeter shooter, leaving him to jump on the driving path of a 6'1'' guard isn't a great idea. Yeah, there should be then be a rotation to Gallo - but usually thats not what happens. Not quickly enough, at least.

It all starts on the perimeter. We can't give up drives this easily. ATL players got the step whenever they wanted.

The defensive issues are team wide. As I said in different threads, people are complimenting PW based on him being in good position and helping but he really isn't doing anything super special. He just sticks out because everyone else is so bad at the basics.

That said, again, even when you account for teammates Lauri is a net negative defender and that's consistent. That video just does a fantastic issue encapsulating it. Lauri saw the play developing way ahead of time. At some point around age 9, basketball players are taught the basic "stop the ball". The guy with the ball is always more of a threat to score than one without it and if there is one uncovered close to you, you switch to him.

Lauri should have instinctively switched down and not stayed with his man. Instead, you could see him recognize it, jump around and end up doing nothing.

Otto is just lazy. I could see him making a business decision there not to help.

[dougthonus]

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings.

They ran an ISO for Kevin Huerter on him and Huerter just easily dribbled around him to score off the dribble. I haven't watched tons of Kevin Huerter by any stretch of the imagination, but he doesn't strike me as a guy your team runs isos for often. If you can't defend Kevin Huerter in an iso situation, I'm not sure you can claim he's going to be able to guard the weaker of two wings.

He's just a defensive liability. Passable defense is a huge stretch. He's the worst defender in the starting lineup that doesn't really feature good defenders. I agree with your overall point that if he scores very efficiently on offense that he may make up for that, and I think he did that yesterday. I expect his defense will consistently be this bad, I'm skeptical that his offense will stay well above league average.

[Indomitable]

Lauri is not a rim protector. Said it before and I'll say it again. Continually putting him in those positions is how to not help him succeed. He's fine as a big wing guarding the weaker of the two wings.

They ran an ISO for Kevin Huerter on him and Huerter just easily dribbled around him to score off the dribble. I haven't watched tons of Kevin Huerter by any stretch of the imagination, but he doesn't strike me as a guy your team runs isos for often. If you can't defend Kevin Huerter in an iso situation, I'm not sure you can claim he's going to be able to guard the weaker of two wings.

He's just a defensive liability. Passable defense is a huge stretch. He's the worst defender in the starting lineup that doesn't really feature good defenders. I agree with your overall point that if he scores very efficiently on offense that he may make up for that, and I think he did that yesterday. I expect his defense will consistently be this bad, I'm skeptical that his offense will stay well above league average.

I am still trade him and find a guy who is versatile. Lauri is not a future all star or hall of famer. Most people are to invested to see it.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Of all ours trobules, Lauri at his best average defender is our least problem on defense. White cant fight through screens, and they put Lauri on island with Trae, and he defended better their guards than White,Arch,Lavine because he can at least contest their shoots. It is not about schemes, Carter is tottaly of, dont look like professional bball player this year, White& Lavine are trying but White just dont have iq to do right things. Zach&Lauri sometimes they get beaten but you can see that they now what they supposed to do, White is just clueless. He plays like stretballer from park who sometimes catch the fire. I am ok withing forcing player to play to became something but you cant theach passing instincts and feel for the game. Expirement with him as pg should never started. If you want to invest in White you should draft Haliburton, that is type of guy who could play with White. Otherwise he is destinated to be Ben Gordin with less ball handling ability, and that says something because BG was not good in putting ball on the floor.It is stupid to say we are two players away, but literraly with G.Hill/Augustine or Gibson/R.Lopez vet min or mle type of guys you could have team capable to fight for playoffs. And your choice is for 9.5 mil Temple/Valentine, smh.

[sami71]

I am still trade him and find a guy who is versatile. Lauri is not a future all star or hall of famer. Most people are to invested to see it.

Who is left expecting Lauri to be future HOF or even just an all star? Certainly not "most" in my view.

What I think it is about now for many is, can he be a useful player in a championship contending team, how much to pay for that and - the big one - do we keep him while we wait for the actual champions to emerge from somewhere. As far as I have understood, you build from the top. Get the superstar(s) first and go from there.

And there are still a lot of people thinkin he can be a third option in a real contender. That would need a good deal of improvement in many areas.

And maybe there are a few people still expecting that jump in his progress from his rookie year that never came. But they are few and far between. Maybe they hope he will be in an all star game or two. Talks about next Dirk died right up last year so if someone is still expecting Lauri to have a HOF career, I applaud for their optimism

And there are people thinking he is a black hole that kills our team.

I think I am in the first group, and perhaps it is that what taints my perception, because I think that is where the majority are.

[coldfish]

I'm going to be positive about Lauri for a second.

The last few games he has been consistently attacking with the ball. He isn't just hanging around the perimeter. When he drives, he collapses the defense and gives himself better shot opportunities. Last night, I didn't think any of his shots were selfish. He was trying to pass. He even took Bogdanovic in the post on a switch and made it.

Lauri doing this kind of thing on offense puts a floor on his game contribution. Even when off with his shot, he can still create some offense for both himself and others.

On defense, I highlighted a play where he didn't help but there was one play where he did help and stopped a bucket. I have seen him do this more recently.

Overall, I would say that Lauri is Chicago's most improved player from last year. He is still going to have his off games shooting but if he can stay aggressive, not force shots and help on defense he can still contribute even when his shot isn't falling. That's the kind of game that gets you $20m per year and doesn't hurt your team for it.

He doesn't have to be Ben Wallace on defense or Steve Nash on offense either. He just has to do the simple basics correctly and consistently for ball handling and defense.

[Chi town]

I'm going to be positive about Lauri for a second.

The last few games he has been consistently attacking with the ball. He isn't just hanging around the perimeter. When he drives, he collapses the defense and gives himself better shot opportunities. Last night, I didn't think any of his shots were selfish. He was trying to pass. He even took Bogdanovic in the post on a switch and made it.

Lauri doing this kind of thing on offense puts a floor on his game contribution. Even when off with his shot, he can still create some offense for both himself and others.

On defense, I highlighted a play where he didn't help but there was one play where he did help and stopped a bucket. I have seen him do this more recently.

Overall, I would say that Lauri is Chicago's most improved player from last year. He is still going to have his off games shooting but if he can stay aggressive, not force shots and help on defense he can still contribute even when his shot isn't falling. That's the kind of game that gets you $20m per year and doesn't hurt your team for it.

He doesn't have to be Ben Wallace on defense or Steve Nash on offense either. He just has to do the simple basics correctly and consistently for ball handling and defense.

Yes to all of this. He seems to have evolved and is a much better fit in this movement offense. He’s aging the right things too. Seems like he trusts Billy D.

Lavine Lauri and the vets will be consistent. The wildcards will be Coby and WCJ.

[Chi town]

Watch on YouTube

[Chi town]

When was the last time Lauri had 4 assists?

[coldfish]

When was the last time Lauri had 4 assists?

Last year 4 games of 4 assists.
Year before 6 once, 5 once, 4 twice
Rookie 3 games with 4 assists.

Regardless, in 171 career games he now has 4 or more assists 11 times. Only two of those were more than 4.

Generally, passing isn't his thing as I have been saying but I really liked last night. Again, he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. Beyond that, assists are created by dribbling the ball or posting up so him driving will open this stuff up.