Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[payitforward]

...I'd also wager AP's roster spot is penciled in. He's the 4th center with limited upside. Deciding to upgrade his roster spot is not a stretch of the imagination. ...

Nothing to "wager" here -- he's not guaranteed, so he's "penciled in" by definition -- why would they not drop him if a better player became available.

...I still personally think another move is coming. Maybe after the season starts to shore up the roster.

Hope so! But, "shore up" in what regard? What do you think might be possible by way of a trade?

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

...I'd also wager AP's roster spot is penciled in. He's the 4th center with limited upside. Deciding to upgrade his roster spot is not a stretch of the imagination. ...

Nothing to "wager" here -- he's not guaranteed, so he's "penciled in" by definition -- why would they not drop him if a better player became available.

...I still personally think another move is coming. Maybe after the season starts to shore up the roster.

Hope so! But, "shore up" in what regard? What do you think might be possible by way of a trade?

I would shore up the roster by cutting Robinson

[Ruzious]

...I'd also wager AP's roster spot is penciled in. He's the 4th center with limited upside. Deciding to upgrade his roster spot is not a stretch of the imagination. ...

Nothing to "wager" here -- he's not guaranteed, so he's "penciled in" by definition -- why would they not drop him if a better player became available.

...I still personally think another move is coming. Maybe after the season starts to shore up the roster.

Hope so! But, "shore up" in what regard? What do you think might be possible by way of a trade?

I would shore up the roster by cutting Robinson

He's making 3.7 mil this season, so we know they're not cutting him.

[Rafael122]

Trade 2 of Bonga/Brown/Richardson/Wagner and go get PJ Tucker. I think it's clear TBJ isn't going to make a leap. He's only 21, but he's essentially the same player.

[prime1time]

If Lonzo can make his 3's, he's our ideal pg for this team. I love what Westbrook brings but he's to ball-dominant. I keep Westbrook for a year or 2 but we need Lonzo.

[prime1time]

Trade 2 of Bonga/Brown/Richardson/Wagner and go get PJ Tucker. I think it's clear TBJ isn't going to make a leap. He's only 21, but he's essentially the same player.

He's made the leap. Brooks needs to put him in a position to be successful.

[smoothSeph]

Trade 2 of Bonga/Brown/Richardson/Wagner and go get PJ Tucker. I think it's clear TBJ isn't going to make a leap. He's only 21, but he's essentially the same player.

He's made the leap. Brooks needs to put him in a position to be successful.

I don't think Brown is bad by any means, but how good is a player if you have to put him in a perfect situation just to be playable?

[NatP4]

Ish and Lopez for a can of Pringles

[prime1time]

Trade 2 of Bonga/Brown/Richardson/Wagner and go get PJ Tucker. I think it's clear TBJ isn't going to make a leap. He's only 21, but he's essentially the same player.

He's made the leap. Brooks needs to put him in a position to be successful.

I don't think Brown is bad by any means, but how good is a player if you have to put him in a perfect situation just to be playable?

Not sure what you mean. Brown Jr played the four. Is not his position. How good would Beal be if he played the 5? Or Westbrook is he played the 4? We can’t sell low on a draft pick just because our coach Durant know how to utilize Him. He’ll leave here and immediately become a lot better and then we’ll have egg on our face.

[Dark Faze]

It's less about position for TBJ as it is who he's sharing the floor with. He was matched up against...who? Mike Scott? That's not a big deal at all. The problem isn't TBJ playing the 4 or anything like that, it's about who the main ball handlers are in the lineup. TBJ is best as someone who is at worst second man up in terms of ball handling duties. Unfortunately he's going to share the court with some combination of Ish/Brad/Russ 90% of the time, and as a result he won't get many opportunities as a creator outside of attacking close outs.

If you want to *unlock* TBJ, then he should be the backup PG.

TBJ
Matthews
Bonga
Bertans
Lopez

Clearly TBJ must dominate the ball in that lineup. I like Neto but I think this probably is our best bench unit sans swapping Lopez for Wagner depending on who is playing better.

The Ish minutes are brutal.

Josh Jackson looks like a completely different player at this point. Doubtful the Pistons let him go, but I'd be interested in their asking price.

[nate33]

Trade 2 of Bonga/Brown/Richardson/Wagner and go get PJ Tucker. I think it's clear TBJ isn't going to make a leap. He's only 21, but he's essentially the same player.

He's made the leap. Brooks needs to put him in a position to be successful.

I don't think Brown is bad by any means, but how good is a player if you have to put him in a perfect situation just to be playable?

I think Troy Brown Jr. is a very good player who will continue to get better. However, I am sympathetic to the argument that he's not the ideal fit for our system and personnel. But if that's the case, I absolutely would not trade him for a 35-year-old PJ Tucker. That's monumentally stupid. I'd consider trading Brown for a Landry Shamet type of young 3&D wing, or package him with Lopez or Bryant for a young upgrade at center, or maybe trade him for a future 1st. But trading him for an over-the-hill veteran is Ernie Grunfeld mindset. That's just giving away an asset.

Overall, I think we're better off keeping him and grooming him as a PG.

[smoothSeph]

He's made the leap. Brooks needs to put him in a position to be successful.

I don't think Brown is bad by any means, but how good is a player if you have to put him in a perfect situation just to be playable?

Not sure what you mean. Brown Jr played the four. Is not his position. How good would Beal be if he played the 5? Or Westbrook is he played the 4? We can’t sell low on a draft pick just because our coach Durant know how to utilize Him. He’ll leave here and immediately become a lot better and then we’ll have egg on our face.

Yea let’s compare 6’3 guards playing the center position to a 6’7 small forward playing the small ball 4... Yes he’s out of position but our 3 and 4 have the same role on offense. Defensively he was matched up with guards, not anyone in the post.

Troy is not playing point guard for us, we need to get over that. If he can’t play the 3 or 4 position either then yea, we need to begin looking for a trade.

[doclinkin]

Troy is not playing point guard for us, we need to get over that. If he can’t play the 3 or 4 position either then yea, we need to begin looking for a trade.

Troy can be a ballhandler/playmaker when Westbrook is out of the game. Brooks is enamored with scrappy undersized guards because he was a scrappy undersized guard so he would rather play 3 of them at once than a taller smoother type with a floor general mindset. Brooks does not take advantage of what Brown does do well, but when Russ is out of the game we need additional wing-rebounders, especially if we are going to launch all the 3pt shots that our coaching scheme tends to encourage. TBJ with an improved 3 ball ought to be playable as a 1-3 wing player, even if he is not the penetrate and dish scrappy ballhandler that Brooks was in his own Hoop Dreams flashbacks.

To me smart short passing and player movement would open the floor up, but Scotty seems to love a penetrate and dish system where there is a high usage primary ballhandler and not a team scheme. It is why his teams never advanced in the playoffs because he cannot find the synergy that makes his teams more than the sum of their parts. He just feeds the one or two creators and bangs them against the defense over and over.

It is too easy to game plan to stop any one player. One reason why I have said we need a coach with Euro experience and mind set. If we are hiring all these international players why not get someone who can make that experience work? Passing, movement, team play, unselfish ball, we have players who play that exact game. TBJ among them. Everybody eats.

The Spurs will love TBJ when they end up with him eventually.

[prime1time]

I don't think Brown is bad by any means, but how good is a player if you have to put him in a perfect situation just to be playable?

Not sure what you mean. Brown Jr played the four. Is not his position. How good would Beal be if he played the 5? Or Westbrook is he played the 4? We can’t sell low on a draft pick just because our coach Durant know how to utilize Him. He’ll leave here and immediately become a lot better and then we’ll have egg on our face.

Yea let’s compare 6’3 guards playing the center position to a 6’7 small forward playing the small ball 4... Yes he’s out of position but our 3 and 4 have the same role on offense. Defensively he was matched up with guards, not anyone in the post.

Troy is not playing point guard for us, we need to get over that. If he can’t play the 3 or 4 position either then yea, we need to begin looking for a trade.

His defense was fine. The issue is he should be given opportunities to play a style that's suitable to him. This what good coaches do. They set players up to be successful. And I take exception to the use of the word "perfect." Logic like yours is why guys like Boris Diaw can go from being cut to excelling for a championship team. If we can’t utilize him then we should trade him to a team that can. A very typical Wizard move. Waste 2 years developing a player only to sell low because he needs a "perfect" situation. He was 4/7 from 3 in pre-season and knock down a 3 yesterday. Can a 3-point shooting Troy Brown Jr really not fit on this team?

Also the 3 and 4 do not have the same position. What does this even mean? I've heard Brooks talk about how Rui should set screens and work in the low-post. Is that what we expect from Troy? Does Bertans at the 4 play like Rui or Bonga? This makes no sense. Brooks needs to call some sets specifically for Troy to get him into the flow of the game. Just like he should do for Rui when he comes back, Advija and Bertans.

How about this as an example. Would you use Steph Curry like Russell Westbrook? Klay Thompson like Michael Jordan? Kevin Durant like LeBron? Every player needs to be put in positions to be successful. And I'm not advocating for him to be a pg. But I am advocating for letting him be a point forward, and initiate the offense.

I'd like Beal, Advija, Brown Jr lineups where we can put Beal off-ball and let either Deni or Troy initiate the offense. I also want to see him grab rebounds and push. The fact that after the first game of the season - a season with virtually no training camp and no preseason - you are already calling unplayable shows your true motivation. Less Troy and Russ lineups. Also, less Troy and Ish lineups. Here's a question, what role does a coach have in a team's success?

[Ruzious]

Troy is not playing point guard for us, we need to get over that. If he can’t play the 3 or 4 position either then yea, we need to begin looking for a trade.

Troy can be a ballhandler/playmaker when Westbrook is out of the game. Brooks is enamored with scrappy undersized guards because he was a scrappy undersized guard so he would rather play 3 of them at once than a taller smoother type with a floor general mindset. Brooks does not take advantage of what Brown does do well, but when Russ is out of the game we need additional wing-rebounders, especially if we are going to launch all the 3pt shots that our coaching scheme tends to encourage. TBJ with an improved 3 ball ought to be playable as a 1-3 wing player, even if he is not the penetrate and dish scrappy ballhandler that Brooks was in his own Hoop Dreams flashbacks.

To me smart short passing and player movement would open the floor up, but Scotty seems to love a penetrate and dish system where there is a high usage primary ballhandler and not a team scheme. It is why his teams never advanced in the playoffs because he cannot find the synergy that makes his teams more than the sum of their parts. He just feeds the one or two creators and bangs them against the defense over and over.

It is too easy to game plan to stop any one player. One reason why I have said we need a coach with Euro experience and mind set. If we are hiring all these international players why not get someone who can make that experience work? Passing, movement, team play, unselfish ball, we have players who play that exact game. TBJ among them. Everybody eats.

The Spurs will love TBJ when they end up with him eventually.

Now that you mention it, a trade of TBJ for Keldon Johnson might make sense. Keldon's more of a 3 point shooter and has 1 more year on his rookie contract than TBJ has. TBJ's a more versatile player - which SA seems to like.

[payitforward]

...The Spurs will love TBJ when they end up with him eventually.

Sad (b/c likely) & true.

The overall pattern on this board of "dislike Brown but love Rui" really puzzles me.

Brown has a sub-par game, "trade him." Rui -- a year and a half older than Troy -- has a bad game, "he's improving."

Go figure....

[payitforward]

...The Spurs will love TBJ when they end up with him eventually.

Now that you mention it, a trade of TBJ for Keldon Johnson might make sense. Keldon's more of a 3 point shooter and has 1 more year on his rookie contract than TBJ has. TBJ's a more versatile player - which SA seems to like.

As I'm sure you recall, Keldon Johnson was one of my targets back when I proposed we trade our #9 pick in the 2019 draft for 20 & 22.

Take Clarke at 20, then trade 22 to the Sixers (as Danny did) for #24 & #33. Take Johnson with 24 & oh... how about Bol Bol at #33? Go home happy that evening, don't you think?

I don't think SA will trade Johnson right now, however.

[Ruzious]

...The Spurs will love TBJ when they end up with him eventually.

Now that you mention it, a trade of TBJ for Keldon Johnson might make sense. Keldon's more of a 3 point shooter and has 1 more year on his rookie contract than TBJ has. TBJ's a more versatile player - which SA seems to like.

As I'm sure you recall, Keldon Johnson was one of my targets back when I proposed we trade our #9 pick in the 2019 draft for 20 & 22.

Take Clarke at 20, then trade 22 to the Sixers (as Danny did) for #24 & #33. Take Johnson with 24 & oh... how about Bol Bol at #33? Go home happy that evening, don't you think?

I don't think SA will trade Johnson right now, however.

I do indeed recall that you and Ruz were both high on Keldon - probably higher on him than his teammate - Tyler Herro.

They won't trade him because he had 1 good game - starting because of injuries?

All we had to do get Bol Bol was to pick him with the pick we bought for the Admiral. Tommy set it up perfectly to pick Bol, and then... what the Washington Team Football was he thinking?

But I digress.

[payitforward]

I might have been higher on Johnson than Herro, though I don't remember comparing them &, TBH, I don't know why I would have been. Their numbers as Freshman at Kentucky were very very similar. Nearly identical. I'd have been equally happy to have either one in the scenario i describe above -- though, obviously, Johnson not Herro would have been available.

Herro had a pretty slow start as a rookie, but he came on very strong in the last 1/3 of the season. Obviously, he's proved that he belongs. Johnson's only played a single game in the league. He was terrific, but, it's just one game.

In any case, I think they are both talented kids with bright futures. As is Troy Brown, Jr. -- all 3 of them born w/in 6 months of one another.

The other guy we talked about in the same vein back then was Dylan Windler -- poor kid played 9 minutes in the Cavs opener & broke his hand!

Edit: sure we could have taken Bol Bol @#42 -- but... maybe we'd have taken him w/ the #33 we got from Philly & then taken Talen Horton-Tucker at #42 -- take a look at what he did vs. the Clippers one night last week: https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401265841

[J-Ves]

The only deal the Wiz should make this year is Beal for a king's ransom. Outside of that just stand pat.