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Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

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Lauri extension?

Don't want to see one happen - let him show me more first
40
33%
4 years/$40M-$50M
22
18%
4 year/$50M-$65M
28
23%
4 years/$65M-$80M
22
18%
4 years/$80M+
6
5%
Other (explain)
4
3%
 
Total votes: 122

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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#941 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:36 pm

coldfish wrote:Generally, passing isn't his thing as I have been saying but I really liked last night. Again, he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. Beyond that, assists are created by dribbling the ball or posting up so him driving will open this stuff up.

As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#942 » by dougthonus » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:38 pm

PaKii94 wrote:Huerter is a guard not a wing...


Most people refer to the wings as the SG/SF positions. Not sure if you meant something else.

Anyway regardless, Lauri guarding wings one on one is pretty good because he can use his length to contest. His defense is in the tune of "bend not break" like in football. Due to his short arms, it's better for him to let the player get into his chest then contest with his length. Sometimes the opposing player will make a contested shot over him. Majority of the time, the shot is contested well enough that it's a miss.


Your view of Lauri's defense just seems completely disconnected from reality to me. He gets beat easily off the dribble, doesn't generally use his length effectively, is slow to rotate, doesn't provide great help when he does rotate, he's just not a good defender in my view and doesn't particularly do anything well.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#943 » by coldfish » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:48 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
coldfish wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
To me it sounds like you're neglecting a fact. The fact is Lauri is a much better shooter than passer, some might even argue (like I) that's he's arguably in his best nights Bulls' best shooter.

Why the heck would a player with that quality look more for passing the ball when the better, more logical option is to let it fly? Many even ridicule him for being a mere spot-up shooter. In this context I don't get your argument why using your strength is suddenly a selfish move. Is he even very high on the list of FGA, I doubt it...

White and Lavine are the selfish chuckers who ought to keep the ball moving and pass more than shoot.


Career numbers per game:
Lauri 13.2fga 1.4a 9.4 fga/a
Korver 7.5fga 1.7a 4.4 fga/a
Lavine 14.3fga 3.6a 4.0 fga/a
White 12.2fga 2.2a 5.5 fga/a

So, when you rank players by the selfish chucker stat, Lauri comes out far and away the highest. I included Korver because obviously he is a much, much, much better shooter than Lauri yet he still gets more than twice as many assists per FGA. Why does Lauri actually shoot it more often than Kyle Korver and have less assists despite having the lower shooting percentages? Well, its because up until now, he has been a selfish chucker.

As a side note, I agree about Coby White. He is also a selfish chucker.


Well for one thing, including Korver to that list is kind of odd IMO. An old, career bench player who's played in much better environments, he's never really had the responsibility to score. Could you pick for a comparison a young player, starter, who's played his entire young career in a scrub team with a chip on his shoulder to score?

If Lauri continues to shoot 3Ps like against the Hawks, 13 FGA seems like a number to be increased. Lavine shot 19 and wasn't even hot. Although as you earlier described, Lauri driving and creating himself and others room to pass is obviously a good thing but I'd rather see him taking 19 FGA per night.

The way our offense has been run the last few years makes me believe our entire team is pretty low on assists. Or is Lauri the only starter who's assist numbers stand out?

IMO selfishness really doesn't fit in this narrative.


Including Korver is not odd. You said that Lauri shoots because he is a good shooter. I gave an example of a better shooter who still finds a way to pass (despite having minimal ball skills).

Here is Towns.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html
Towns is known as kind of a chucker himself. He is an elite scorer though and has range out to the 3p line. His overall scoring efficiency is significantly better than Lauri. He has been the focal point of a bad team for his entire career.

His peak FGA per game was 18.0 and he has been less than that the rest of his career. He also manages to almost double Lauri's assist totals.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts. That would put him top 15 in the NBA.

In general, I do not think the team passes well. Lauri fans complain about Lavine and Coby. I agree with them but Lauri is part of the problem. What he did last night needs to be his typical night as far as passing, not a once a month type event. In doing so, people will be surprised to see that it actually opens things up for him and helps the entire team (which is what I thought the point was).
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#944 » by FranchisePlayer » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:11 pm

coldfish wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
coldfish wrote:
Career numbers per game:
Lauri 13.2fga 1.4a 9.4 fga/a
Korver 7.5fga 1.7a 4.4 fga/a
Lavine 14.3fga 3.6a 4.0 fga/a
White 12.2fga 2.2a 5.5 fga/a

So, when you rank players by the selfish chucker stat, Lauri comes out far and away the highest. I included Korver because obviously he is a much, much, much better shooter than Lauri yet he still gets more than twice as many assists per FGA. Why does Lauri actually shoot it more often than Kyle Korver and have less assists despite having the lower shooting percentages? Well, its because up until now, he has been a selfish chucker.

As a side note, I agree about Coby White. He is also a selfish chucker.


Well for one thing, including Korver to that list is kind of odd IMO. An old, career bench player who's played in much better environments, he's never really had the responsibility to score. Could you pick for a comparison a young player, starter, who's played his entire young career in a scrub team with a chip on his shoulder to score?

If Lauri continues to shoot 3Ps like against the Hawks, 13 FGA seems like a number to be increased. Lavine shot 19 and wasn't even hot. Although as you earlier described, Lauri driving and creating himself and others room to pass is obviously a good thing but I'd rather see him taking 19 FGA per night.

The way our offense has been run the last few years makes me believe our entire team is pretty low on assists. Or is Lauri the only starter who's assist numbers stand out?

IMO selfishness really doesn't fit in this narrative.


Including Korver is not odd. You said that Lauri shoots because he is a good shooter. I gave an example of a better shooter who still finds a way to pass (despite having minimal ball skills).

Here is Towns.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html
Towns is known as kind of a chucker himself. He is an elite scorer though and has range out to the 3p line. His overall scoring efficiency is significantly better than Lauri. He has been the focal point of a bad team for his entire career.

His peak FGA per game was 18.0 and he has been less than that the rest of his career. He also manages to almost double Lauri's assist totals.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts. That would put him top 15 in the NBA.

In general, I do not think the team passes well. Lauri fans complain about Lavine and Coby. I agree with them but Lauri is part of the problem. What he did last night needs to be his typical night as far as passing, not a once a month type event. In doing so, people will be surprised to see that it actually opens things up for him and helps the entire team (which is what I thought the point was).


Towns has alongside him players that can pass. I checked the stats, Lavine's and White's numbers are way below average. I bet Towns would see even his assists numbers drop down with this duo, not to mention scoring. With the guards Bulls have had the past few years, really hard to see any big excelling in assists.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts? :o You've been misreading his stats. Lauri getting more shots is the most logical thing to do. You think his last year was bad, right? Yet, in the games where he had 19 or more FGA he EXCELLED!

25 against the Hornets, 35 points scored, 19 against Washington, 31 points scored, 18 against Dallas was his 3rd highest, he scored 26 points. In every one of those games he had a stupendous FG% too.
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.

12/2/2022
I like the quote- it makes me chuckle. And it was/is pretty much true.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#945 » by TheGOATRises007 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:16 pm

I see people here are still clinging onto the hope that Lauri is a superstar in sleeping and he just needs more shots to fulfill that potential.

Fool's good.

He is who he is at this point.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#946 » by coldfish » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:24 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
Towns has alongside him players that can pass. I checked the stats, Lavine's and White's numbers are way below average. I bet Towns would see even his assists numbers drop down with this duo, not to mention scoring. With the guards Bulls have had the past few years, really hard to see any big excelling in assists.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts? :o You've been misreading his stats. Lauri getting more shots is the most logical thing to do. You think his last year was bad, right? Yet, in the games where he had 19 or more FGA he EXCELLED!

25 against the Hornets, 35 points scored, 19 against Washington, 31 points scored, 18 against Dallas was his 3rd highest, he scored 26 points. In every one of those games he had a stupendous FG% too.



I don't even have words. Maybe I should just join the cult.

If you ignore all of Lauri's misses (which are Boylen and Lavine's fault), Lauri has a career FG% of 100%. Lauri has never, ever missed a shot. The Bulls should give ALL of their shots to him. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Bulls would win every game by 50 or more.

In fact, these aren't the only things that all of you Bulls fans should know about Lauri
- Lauri can actually kill two stones with one bird
- Lauri can build a snowman out of rain
- The only time Lauri was ever wrong was when he thought he made a mistake
- Lauri doesn't wear a watch. He decides what time it is.
- The dark is afraid of Lauri
- Lauri does not sleep, he waits
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#947 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:48 pm

There is lot of all stars that in fact arent real stars in terms of being superstars or all nba players. That said i would bet my money if Lauri is playing with Dallas or Miami or Pacers he would have considerations for all star game one day similar to Lavine last year with his familiar flaws. In his best interest is to seek a trade in franchise with structure and pg. He could adjust and be better not so sure that Bulls have ability to save some reclamation projects if they land them via trade.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#948 » by Dez » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:07 am

coldfish wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
Towns has alongside him players that can pass. I checked the stats, Lavine's and White's numbers are way below average. I bet Towns would see even his assists numbers drop down with this duo, not to mention scoring. With the guards Bulls have had the past few years, really hard to see any big excelling in assists.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts? :o You've been misreading his stats. Lauri getting more shots is the most logical thing to do. You think his last year was bad, right? Yet, in the games where he had 19 or more FGA he EXCELLED!

25 against the Hornets, 35 points scored, 19 against Washington, 31 points scored, 18 against Dallas was his 3rd highest, he scored 26 points. In every one of those games he had a stupendous FG% too.



I don't even have words. Maybe I should just join the cult.

If you ignore all of Lauri's misses (which are Boylen and Lavine's fault), Lauri has a career FG% of 100%. Lauri has never, ever missed a shot. The Bulls should give ALL of their shots to him. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Bulls would win every game by 50 or more.

In fact, these aren't the only things that all of you Bulls fans should know about Lauri
- Lauri can actually kill two stones with one bird
- Lauri can build a snowman out of rain
- The only time Lauri was ever wrong was when he thought he made a mistake
- Lauri doesn't wear a watch. He decides what time it is.
- The dark is afraid of Lauri
- Lauri does not sleep, he waits


So Lauri is now Chuck Norris?
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#949 » by coldfish » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:20 am

Dez wrote:
coldfish wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
Towns has alongside him players that can pass. I checked the stats, Lavine's and White's numbers are way below average. I bet Towns would see even his assists numbers drop down with this duo, not to mention scoring. With the guards Bulls have had the past few years, really hard to see any big excelling in assists.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts? :o You've been misreading his stats. Lauri getting more shots is the most logical thing to do. You think his last year was bad, right? Yet, in the games where he had 19 or more FGA he EXCELLED!

25 against the Hornets, 35 points scored, 19 against Washington, 31 points scored, 18 against Dallas was his 3rd highest, he scored 26 points. In every one of those games he had a stupendous FG% too.



I don't even have words. Maybe I should just join the cult.

If you ignore all of Lauri's misses (which are Boylen and Lavine's fault), Lauri has a career FG% of 100%. Lauri has never, ever missed a shot. The Bulls should give ALL of their shots to him. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Bulls would win every game by 50 or more.

In fact, these aren't the only things that all of you Bulls fans should know about Lauri
- Lauri can actually kill two stones with one bird
- Lauri can build a snowman out of rain
- The only time Lauri was ever wrong was when he thought he made a mistake
- Lauri doesn't wear a watch. He decides what time it is.
- The dark is afraid of Lauri
- Lauri does not sleep, he waits


So Lauri is now Chuck Norris?


Chuck Norris wishes he was Lauri. Champions are the breakfast of Lauri Markkanen.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#950 » by DroseReturnChi » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:34 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Generally, passing isn't his thing as I have been saying but I really liked last night. Again, he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. Beyond that, assists are created by dribbling the ball or posting up so him driving will open this stuff up.

As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.


You guys are generating false narratives about Lauri.
Lauri tries to play within the flow of the system, so counting stats is a stupid idea esp assists.
He will usually make the right pass like Williams if he cannot take the best shot and keep the ball moving.
Yet they dont avg 2 assists, so does it mean White is a way superior passer than both of those? Fk no.

Also, comparing Lauri to McD is a blasphemy just bc they have the same skin. Their plays are nothing alike and no similarities other than they were drafted by Bulls. If Lauri's defense was bad, White and Lavine should not be in the NBA. And Carter is becoming one.

Everytime Lauri plays bad is all bc of Lavine, White, Carter. Theres a reason why Lauri plays well when those 3 arent and vice versa. Its still a miracle Lauri can survive while taking 10 shots a game. Honestly, MJ will call it quits.
Doncic will be goat. Lauri will be his sidekick.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#951 » by Dez » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:45 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
coldfish wrote:Generally, passing isn't his thing as I have been saying but I really liked last night. Again, he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. Beyond that, assists are created by dribbling the ball or posting up so him driving will open this stuff up.

As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.


You guys are generating false narratives about Lauri.
Lauri tries to play within the flow of the system, so counting stats is a stupid idea esp assists.
He will usually make the right pass like Williams if he cannot take the best shot and keep the ball moving.
Yet they dont avg 2 assists, so does it mean White is a way superior passer than both of those? Fk no.

Also, comparing Lauri to McD is a blasphemy just bc they have the same skin. Their plays are nothing alike and no similarities other than they were drafted by Bulls. If Lauri's defense was bad, White and Lavine should not be in the NBA. And Carter is becoming one.

Everytime Lauri plays bad is all bc of Lavine, White, Carter. Theres a reason why Lauri plays well when those 3 arent and vice versa. Its still a miracle Lauri can survive while taking 10 shots a game. Honestly, MJ will call it quits.


You're living in a fantasy world, the sheer amount of delusion is scary and this is exactly the kind of thing coldfish was talking about.

Lauri can do no wrong and has never done wrong.

This basically sums it up:



No matter how much evidence is presented, it's just dismissed when it comes to Lauri.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#952 » by Clocian » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:57 am

Dez wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.


You guys are generating false narratives about Lauri.
Lauri tries to play within the flow of the system, so counting stats is a stupid idea esp assists.
He will usually make the right pass like Williams if he cannot take the best shot and keep the ball moving.
Yet they dont avg 2 assists, so does it mean White is a way superior passer than both of those? Fk no.

Also, comparing Lauri to McD is a blasphemy just bc they have the same skin. Their plays are nothing alike and no similarities other than they were drafted by Bulls. If Lauri's defense was bad, White and Lavine should not be in the NBA. And Carter is becoming one.

Everytime Lauri plays bad is all bc of Lavine, White, Carter. Theres a reason why Lauri plays well when those 3 arent and vice versa. Its still a miracle Lauri can survive while taking 10 shots a game. Honestly, MJ will call it quits.


You're living in a fantasy world, the sheer amount of delusion is scary and this is exactly the kind of thing coldfish was talking about.

Lauri can do no wrong and has never done wrong.

This basically sums it up:



No matter how much evidence is presented, it's just dismissed when it comes to Lauri.


It's funny because when Lauri has a good game, we should be saying "hey, he showed up and had a good game!", but with lauri defenders, everything about why lauri has not been successful is directed towards the coaches and other players. If this is true that they are responsible for his bad games, you also gotta give props to them for lauri having a good game.

This is Lauri's 3rd coach. The excuses are dead. If it wasn't time before (it was) to be held accountable, it is now.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#953 » by E-DC » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:36 am

When did rooting for Bulls players become a bad thing? And we're only one game in too. The Bulls played an atrocious first game, however Lauri was our best player out there. He had a better ORTG than everyone not named Trae Young. There aren't a lot of silver linings to latch on to at present. Hopefully as we get a few more games in more of the players will show up, as I optimistically expect they will. I also hope Lauri's play last night is something we continue to see more of, but apparently that makes me a part of the crazy crowd.

As for Lauri being a black hole on offense, that's really stretching it. Look at the assists per game for Gibson, Mirotic, Lopez, Portis, and Carter. I don't think the Bulls have had one big man average more than 2 apg over the last four seasons. Luckily a new offensive system is being put in place where this should change. Last night Lauri put up two alley oops, dished for a lay-up, and did a spin move pass to Hutchison for another. This should be something we should be celebrating from a game that was otherwise down right ugly. So how about we take the hate down a notch and actually root for our team. And if a player starts expanding their game that's a good thing.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#954 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:12 am

Dez wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.


You guys are generating false narratives about Lauri.
Lauri tries to play within the flow of the system, so counting stats is a stupid idea esp assists.
He will usually make the right pass like Williams if he cannot take the best shot and keep the ball moving.
Yet they dont avg 2 assists, so does it mean White is a way superior passer than both of those? Fk no.

Also, comparing Lauri to McD is a blasphemy just bc they have the same skin. Their plays are nothing alike and no similarities other than they were drafted by Bulls. If Lauri's defense was bad, White and Lavine should not be in the NBA. And Carter is becoming one.

Everytime Lauri plays bad is all bc of Lavine, White, Carter. Theres a reason why Lauri plays well when those 3 arent and vice versa. Its still a miracle Lauri can survive while taking 10 shots a game. Honestly, MJ will call it quits.


You're living in a fantasy world, the sheer amount of delusion is scary and this is exactly the kind of thing coldfish was talking about.

Lauri can do no wrong and has never done wrong.

This basically sums it up:



No matter how much evidence is presented, it's just dismissed when it comes to Lauri.
He's quite obviously a troll. Not a good one mind you, but a troll nonetheless.

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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#955 » by bullsnewdynasty » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:21 am

Lauri is basically Niko 2.0. Niko had a similar group that thought the Bulls should build the offense around him and his upside was way higher than it actually was. Both guys had one month where they played like a superstar which led to hype and it never happened again afterward.

It's a really big problem if a lottery pick doesn't take a jump by his 3rd season. Almost every player who went on to become all-star level exhibited some clear improvement from season to season.

From the eye test, Lauri still looks like the exact same player he came into the league as.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#956 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:45 am

For me, smart franchises put their draft picks in position to succseed and work with them to improve. Lauri is not player who can came in and be saviour, just he isnt that type. But imo he could become successfull and productive Nba player, third option on good playoff team and net possitive player, who fitts under right system and management. I just dont see Bulls being that type of smart franchise. In order to maximize his potential and money, he should sign somewhere else next year. Good luck to any future Bulls pf/c with White/Lavine backcourt.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#957 » by FranchisePlayer » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:02 am

coldfish wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
Towns has alongside him players that can pass. I checked the stats, Lavine's and White's numbers are way below average. I bet Towns would see even his assists numbers drop down with this duo, not to mention scoring. With the guards Bulls have had the past few years, really hard to see any big excelling in assists.

19 FGA for Lauri is nuts? :o You've been misreading his stats. Lauri getting more shots is the most logical thing to do. You think his last year was bad, right? Yet, in the games where he had 19 or more FGA he EXCELLED!

25 against the Hornets, 35 points scored, 19 against Washington, 31 points scored, 18 against Dallas was his 3rd highest, he scored 26 points. In every one of those games he had a stupendous FG% too.



I don't even have words. Maybe I should just join the cult.

If you ignore all of Lauri's misses (which are Boylen and Lavine's fault), Lauri has a career FG% of 100%. Lauri has never, ever missed a shot. The Bulls should give ALL of their shots to him. Yeah, that's the ticket. The Bulls would win every game by 50 or more.

In fact, these aren't the only things that all of you Bulls fans should know about Lauri
- Lauri can actually kill two stones with one bird
- Lauri can build a snowman out of rain
- The only time Lauri was ever wrong was when he thought he made a mistake
- Lauri doesn't wear a watch. He decides what time it is.
- The dark is afraid of Lauri
- Lauri does not sleep, he waits


You don't have words? You seemed to have plenty of stuff to say! Pretty immature though and I don't know what the hell are those smoking who And1d this post of yours. You guys seem to run an own cult of "hey, let's And1 every post unrelated to basketball!".

I don't ignore anything, just stated some FACTS. Sorry if the FACTS made you feel so uncomfortable that you had to resort to this kind of immature gibberish. But hey, Merry Christmas!
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.

12/2/2022
I like the quote- it makes me chuckle. And it was/is pretty much true.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#958 » by FranchisePlayer » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:15 am

Dez wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:As someone who absolutely hates absolutely everything about him as an NBA player, I'll give him credit too for not being the complete black hole he usually is last night.

But ultimately, I saw what I basically saw in the season opener last year, too - largely unsustainable play, not actual new and/or improved skills. Shooting 6/9 and spamming lobs to Carter/Gafford are, frankly, not the kinds of things you will ever rely on.

As for his defense, we're pretty much at straight up McDermott levels of delusion here. People kept trying to proclaim him to be "not that bad" a defender too. Lauri was getting absolutely cooked in both isolation and space. At the current pace that people are coming around to his true talent and skill level, I predict that around 2027 or so, people will finally realize, yeah, he just flat out sucks at defense and always has.


You guys are generating false narratives about Lauri.
Lauri tries to play within the flow of the system, so counting stats is a stupid idea esp assists.
He will usually make the right pass like Williams if he cannot take the best shot and keep the ball moving.
Yet they dont avg 2 assists, so does it mean White is a way superior passer than both of those? Fk no.

Also, comparing Lauri to McD is a blasphemy just bc they have the same skin. Their plays are nothing alike and no similarities other than they were drafted by Bulls. If Lauri's defense was bad, White and Lavine should not be in the NBA. And Carter is becoming one.

Everytime Lauri plays bad is all bc of Lavine, White, Carter. Theres a reason why Lauri plays well when those 3 arent and vice versa. Its still a miracle Lauri can survive while taking 10 shots a game. Honestly, MJ will call it quits.


You're living in a fantasy world, the sheer amount of delusion is scary and this is exactly the kind of thing coldfish was talking about.

Lauri can do no wrong and has never done wrong.

This basically sums it up:



No matter how much evidence is presented, it's just dismissed when it comes to Lauri.


Lol, who is living in a fantasy world? The guy providing evidence with Youtube clips of the Simpsons in a basketball forum?

Seriously, I know you're a blind hater but now you hit absolute rock bottom with this. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.

12/2/2022
I like the quote- it makes me chuckle. And it was/is pretty much true.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#959 » by fleet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:24 am

Spoiler:
coldfish wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
coldfish wrote:
Last year 4 games of 4 assists.
Year before 6 once, 5 once, 4 twice
Rookie 3 games with 4 assists.

Regardless, in 171 career games he now has 4 or more assists 11 times. Only two of those were more than 4.

Generally, passing isn't his thing as I have been saying but I really liked last night. Again, he doesn't have to be Steve Nash. Beyond that, assists are created by dribbling the ball or posting up so him driving will open this stuff up.



See to me that wasn't Lauri going above and beyond. That's what I expect from him. I do think he could do this stuff last year but he just wasn't given the opportunity.

Also why I disagree with your "Lauri is selfish" take coldfish. If a scorer is given only 5 touches with the ball, he's obviously going to try putting them up as shots. Expand that to 10 and then maybe 7 are shots and 3 are playmaking? Expand it to 20 and then it becomes 13 shots and 7 attempts at playmaking.

Last year it was 5 touches with 3 being catch and shoot 3s and the other 2 as sh*t post ups.

Lauri should be getting touches EVERY PLAY. It doesn't need to end up a shot for him but usually it's a positive outcome. This game again showed the potential of Lauri pnr. The assists count only show 4 but he did find multiple guys for open shots and wcj/gafford for FTs on his other attempts. This was the highest "potential assists" game from him so far. Yes he had two bad pass turnovers but again, with volume I think you'd see assists go up more than turnovers.



Again, no one is generating an assist from every pass they make. That's an irrational stat unless you are somehow counting them for every player. Lauri is generally a selfish player who takes a shot a disproportionate percentage of the time when he touches the ball. This is reflected in his low assist numbers.

Overall, last night was notable for Lauri in that it was a big departure from his normal play. As I showed above, he rarely even has 4 assists in a game despite a ton of touches. That's actually hard to do unless you heave it up almost every time you touch it.

I would love to get a leaguewide stat from last year on FGA / A. I'll call it the selfish chucker stat. I bet Lauri is among the league's worst.

PaKii94 wrote:
coldfish wrote:
This isn't realistic. The number 1 weapon in the NBA is the 3 pointer. That means that guards have to close out hard and go over screens to contest outside shots. Off ball defenders HAVE to help because you are giving up the drive. Its simply not a skill that a C/PF/SF can choose not to have.

I gave the example, now I'll repeat the stat. Lauri ranked 309th in the NBA for defensive rpm last year. Accounting for his teammates, he is still really bad at that side of the court.

The above sequence is likely why PW is starting over Otto. It wasn't just Lauri screwing up there.


There is more nuance to it than that. With a set drop defense, the objective of the guards is to funnel the opposite guards to the dropped bigman wall at the mid-range area. In that sense yes, help defense and rotations are crucial from the other players.

On scrambling transition plays like the one you mention. That's on the guards to stop the initial penetration while the defense is getting setup. That's why all 3 players were in no man's land not just Lauri.

Our defense is breaking at the point of attack because of our guards. In the past few years, WCJ was enough of a positive on defense to negate/mitigate these mistakes. Now we don't even have that so it looks worse than the sum of the parts.

For Lauri specifically if you put him around solid defenders he won't be a game breaking bad defender. However, he's not a defense elevator. If you put him in a bad situation, his struggles are amplified. He has enough defense to be average/slightly above average if the rest of the defense is good but he's not going to be able to mitigate bad defense.

Obviously you can live with average defense if he's a good positive on the offensive end (consistently) which I think he can be....but he needs USAGE!!!!


Again, when you account for the players around him, Lauri was around 309th in the NBA for defensive rpm last year. It really is him.

And no, there is no nuance to the play that I highlighted. You have a player with the ball, uncovered going to the rim from 15 feet away. Its basic fundamental basketball that you leave your man and try to stop him. We are talking stuff taught to kids under 10 years old at this point. This is the kind of thing that comes after basic passing / dribbling / shooting skills.

As long as Lauri keeps making bad decisions like that, he is going to hurt the defense as soon as he steps on the floor. This is well below replacement level defense. It doesn't matter if he has 4 all world defenders around him or not.


The instances you mention....I wonder if Laurie has been coached to stay with his man during certain plays because they don't have any faith that he can stop the man with the ball, or recover if ball is kicked out. Pat does leave and help, but he has the ability do both.... leave and help on the ball, and also close back out on his man if it is kicked out. Wendell has done it, but once he leaves he's not coming back. They don't appear to have a rotation plan to bail out the defense because of Lauri yet. I'd rather see combinations with Hutch, Pat and WCJ when Lauri isn't making shots. Old Thad can pitch in some too.

One thing that you can say about him to this point, he is the oppositie of versatile as far as positions and roles, unless versatile means he can make the same mistakes no matter what position he plays at. Which has to drive AK nuts.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#960 » by TSS » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:47 am

dougthonus wrote:
Your view of Lauri's defense just seems completely disconnected from reality to me. He gets beat easily off the dribble, doesn't generally use his length effectively, is slow to rotate, doesn't provide great help when he does rotate, he's just not a good defender in my view and doesn't particularly do anything well.


This is an honest question to Dougthonus and Coldfish as both of you guys seem to put thought on your posts and judging from the post count as well as join date, you both have followed Bulls a long time. I actually went back and looked at every possession of this Hawks game particularly watching what Lauri did or could have done different to help the team. Tried to use every bit off experience I have gathered as a coach and player myself. I did this because I saw the game so entirely different than you did and you clearly have experience as well.

I did not watch 4th quarter because Lauri did not play on that one. Here are the played which I can come up with in the order of appearance:

1. Lauri got badly beat by Gallo driving left from the top of the key. Purely Lauri to blame on this as you cannot get blown by so clearly to even allow rotation to happen. 2 easy points for Hawks.

2. Lauri ended up with Trae because of bad transition from Zach forced him to take away open three from Trae. He then ended up fouling Trae on a drive. He actually stayed with Trae but had left hand holding Trae which was an obvious foul. 1 point from Trae Free throws.

3. ended up with Huerter on a switch. Stayed on front of him on isolation but - And this is by far the biggest fault I see in Lauris defense - Did not challenge the shot hard enough-. He kind of challenged the shot but not seriously. 2 points to hawks.

4. The complete defensive **** Coldfish brought up. Perimeter defender once again gets completely blown by and three Bulls players just watch on the side. Looked like miscommunication to me as you need one of the three to go and challenge the drive but not all of them. 2 easy points given.

5. TO when trying to make extra pass for Zach. I actually liked the idea of that pass but obviously not the execution. This lead to fast break by Reddish where again, Lauri stayed with it but did not really challenge the shot. 2 points for hawks.

6. TO on a skip pass which was bad idea all the way.

7. Slow and soft close out after a pick and pop from Gallo. Gallo missed the shot but that had nothing to do with good defense.

8. Ended up with Trae on a switch and got promptly blown by letting him get uncontested to the paint. 2 points to hawks.

These eight plays are literally the only ones where I can find he could have done better to help the team win.

On the plus side he hit 4 threes none of which was a wide open catch and shoot. Two corner threes had very little space and a really quick release was needed. The one assisted by Wendell he had to catch the ball from his ankles and create the shot and the fourth one he used the off ball screen and created space himself very nicely.

Out of the 4 assists, 3 led to the easiest buckets Bulls got all night. One each for Porter, Wendell and Gafford.
Additionally he passed 3 wide open threes none of which was converted. If I recall right they were for Porter, PWill and Coby.

He did not force any shots and even the flat floater was a good decision, only the shot itself was terrible.

On the defensive end:
His own assignment scored 2 or 5 points in this game. Depending on how you count one corner three.
He had two very good rotations to stop and properly challenge a Gallo drive, one from the top of the key which ended up in a stop for bulls and the other on baseline which ended up in a corner three because the next rotation did not happen.
I would actually go as far as saying he was bulls best defender in this game together with Pwill who also had one very nice stop and generally did not get blown by everybody all the time.

I do not want to blindly defend any player but this is my honest interpretation of the Hawks disaster looking from Lauris performance perspective as a coach.

I did not direct this to you Dougthonus and Coldfish to try to challenge your views. But I would really like to know where you see this different than I do as we clearly are on very opposite ends of the spectrum ;). The way I see this game, Lauri with perfect execution on every situation would have been able affect 11 Hawks points 5 of which came from pg or sg he ended up with.

I know it is a lot to ask to go and watch that agonizing piece of crap again but if you happen to have time and absolutely nothing else to do, feedback is very much appreciated. Oh, and I only analyzed this one game in detail so I would not need comments on how Lauri is in general or has performed earlier.

/TSS

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