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[Kerrsed]

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[NapoleonII]

I never understood why the Warriors were considered by a lot of people a playoff team this season. They have so many low basketbal IQ players and Draymond is done.

Because people assumed Curry would average 27 ppg, Wiggins & Oubre 20+ ppg and Wiseman 15 ppg. Well looks like none of that will happen.

Curry can average 37 points and they would still not make it. He would be like 2006 Kobe.

He can't tho.

If he could, he'd be doing it.

2015/2016 Curry was a perfect storm of a player. We won't ever see a player operating in a system like that again.

[bwgood77]

I never understood why the Warriors were considered by a lot of people a playoff team this season. They have so many low basketbal IQ players and Draymond is done.

Because people assumed Curry would average 27 ppg, Wiggins & Oubre 20+ ppg and Wiseman 15 ppg. Well looks like none of that will happen.

This was all with Klay. He makes an enormous difference..moreso than you would think because Curry draws more gravity than anyone in the NBA but you can't leave Klay open....and they both can move quickly, stop on a dime and shoot and are probably the two best shooters in the league.

Remember it was basically just them two and Draymond who had that 73 win season...Barnes was decent but not great. Iguodala a nice bench guy but it was mainly their big 3.

[bwgood77]

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Dang what a stat. Not hating on Oubre but I'm surprised that this has never happened before.

Well it's never happened because when you are not making them, it's rare you shoot 5 or 6 a game. It's pretty rare that people have that many attempts anyway.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I never understood why the Warriors were considered by a lot of people a playoff team this season. They have so many low basketbal IQ players and Draymond is done.

Because people assumed Curry would average 27 ppg, Wiggins & Oubre 20+ ppg and Wiseman 15 ppg. Well looks like none of that will happen.

This was all with Klay. He makes an enormous difference..moreso than you would think because Curry draws more gravity than anyone in the NBA but you can't leave Klay open....and they both can move quickly, stop on a dime and shoot and are probably the two best shooters in the league.

Remember it was basically just them two and Draymond who had that 73 win season...Barnes was decent but not great. Iguodala a nice bench guy but it was mainly their big 3.

That team also had Bogut who was great for their D and Livingston was a steady trustworthy guy off the bench. Plus Curry and Draymond where at their physical peaks. As I mentioned before I also think their style of play caught more teams flat footed than it does now because teams now have been defending it for years.

One reason I wasn't as high on them this season is people tend to ignore that last year before Curry got hurt they were really bad and while I'm not a fan of DLo his ability to create and take pressure off of Steph gives them more than Wiggins currently does. Now they might get a lotto pick from the wolves out of that so long term it was a good deal but for this year it hurts them.

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

[Hesh]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

I noticed this too, sadly. A while ago when we drafted Len, I said I don't believe in guys who started playing basketball late in their lives. They just seem to be missing that natural feel for the game. These guys are so robotic and hesitant while lacking general awareness and the ability to make adjustments on the fly when cornered. I'm sure there are many players who picked up the game late and have excelled, so I'm probably wrong about this but it's just something that I've noticed.

[Ryu]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

Not sure if serious.

Wiseman outplaying Ayton, after 2 (two!) games. And that after his team got beaten by 30 points difference in both games.

[SuperSunsFan]

Ayton's turnaround J has potential to be as unstoppable as Garnett's or Rasheed Wallace's. A lot of Suns fans are judging Ayton's offensive performance entirely based on whether he plays like Amare and determine he sucks because he plays nothing like Amare. It is more important for Ayton to find a consistent offense style that is high percentage while he is comfortable/confident with than force him to play like someone due to entirely nostalgic reasons. watching a few old games and highlights recently i have noticed that Ayton plays a lot like Garnett, he should just continue to perfect the turnaround J (add a few left/right fakes, put the ball on the ground to back the defender closer to the basket for a higher percentage shot instead of just shoot it right away) to give himself some goto moves that will make him a more reliable offensive option down the stretch.

[bwgood77]

Because people assumed Curry would average 27 ppg, Wiggins & Oubre 20+ ppg and Wiseman 15 ppg. Well looks like none of that will happen.

This was all with Klay. He makes an enormous difference..moreso than you would think because Curry draws more gravity than anyone in the NBA but you can't leave Klay open....and they both can move quickly, stop on a dime and shoot and are probably the two best shooters in the league.

Remember it was basically just them two and Draymond who had that 73 win season...Barnes was decent but not great. Iguodala a nice bench guy but it was mainly their big 3.

That team also had Bogut who was great for their D and Livingston was a steady trustworthy guy off the bench. Plus Curry and Draymond where at their physical peaks. As I mentioned before I also think their style of play caught more teams flat footed than it does now because teams now have been defending it for years.

One reason I wasn't as high on them this season is people tend to ignore that last year before Curry got hurt they were really bad and while I'm not a fan of DLo his ability to create and take pressure off of Steph gives them more than Wiggins currently does. Now they might get a lotto pick from the wolves out of that so long term it was a good deal but for this year it hurts them.

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I thought Curry only played a few games. Yeah, I thought about mentioning Livingston but thought maybe he came a little later. And definitely Bogut too but he was getting older and less reliable and didn't play in their death lineups where Iggy played.

But unless Draymond comes back really strong and Oubre turns it up and plays smarter (passes more, drives into multiple defenders less often), they likely won't be better than Memphis or the Pelicans and maybe a number of others. Hard to know where Houston will be with all the question marks, but probably still better even without Harden and if they get something back for him or he plays, they will be good. 538 still had them like 4th with Harden.

When they get Klay back next year and I guess another decent draft pick, they should be significantly better unless Draymond has seriously declined. I don't take his #s last year very seriously as I think he had little motivation and sat out a lot...and I don't think the team minded much.

[bwgood77]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

I didn't watch, but you are probably right that he was better in his 2nd game. I doubt he was better than in any game though, if you look at some of Ayton's huge games and great D on the perimeter and with help D inside...while scoring on high efficiency and pulling down tons of rebounds.

I was under the impression you were high on Ayton though, wanting to build around him and on that trade Booker island...but I guess I haven't seen you post a ton since late last year when I thought that was your feelings on the matter.

I guess really up and down on both.

[jcsunsfan]

Josh Jackson is averaging 19ppg this season while shooting over 40% at 3, given up on him too soon.

Mikal and Cam
Mikal and Josh
Cam and Josh.

Which of those options do you prefer? I take one every time. The likelihood of Josh ending up better than Mikal or Cam is very low. He was a knucklehead that turned the ball over all the time. He was a net negative while on the court. He smoked pot around his infant child and got the kid high.

Not regretting moving on from Josh. If he gets it turned around, good for him.

[King4Day]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

Not sure if serious.

Wiseman outplaying Ayton, after 2 (two!) games. And that after his team got beaten by 30 points difference in both games.

Teams have such little scouting on him too. Basically nothing from college and a few NBA games.
I'm sure he'll be good but let's wait for the league to catch up first before we crown him the next big thing.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

I didn't watch, but you are probably right that he was better in his 2nd game. I doubt he was better than in any game though, if you look at some of Ayton's huge games and great D on the perimeter and with help D inside...while scoring on high efficiency and pulling down tons of rebounds.

I was under the impression you were high on Ayton though, wanting to build around him and on that trade Booker island...but I guess I haven't seen you post a ton since late last year when I thought that was your feelings on the matter.

I guess really up and down on both.

You and I have discussed this. I have admitted to being up and down about Ayton. I'm not even down on Ayton right now. I was just blown away by what I saw of Wiseman.

I didn't say that Wiseman outplayed Ayton overall, whether in their respective second games or otherwise. I'm saying that in that game, Wiseman did those three things better than I've ever seen Ayton do - protect the rim, finish, and shoot (threes). Wiseman gets better arc on his shot than Ayton ever will. He has the athleticism and agility to get weakside blocks - Ayton for whatever reason doesn't. And he dunks. Ayton, well, you know.

Ayton's lighter on his feet, obviously, and he may be a better overall defender due to his versatility: Wiseman's kind of a plodder. I think there's a good chance Ayton will be a better shooter from the mid-range throughout his career, because there's less motion to his shot, which stays high and is mostly a wrist action. It's a more versatile, but much flatter, and less consistent, shot. And dunks are prettier but they're still just worth two points - still, I'd be ecstatic if Ayton got 8 free throws in a game.

I'm just communicating the pain of witnessing a better, younger center prospect. It has nothing to do with my feelings about Ayton and everything to do with Wiseman.

GO SUNS.

[bwgood77]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

I didn't watch, but you are probably right that he was better in his 2nd game. I doubt he was better than in any game though, if you look at some of Ayton's huge games and great D on the perimeter and with help D inside...while scoring on high efficiency and pulling down tons of rebounds.

I was under the impression you were high on Ayton though, wanting to build around him and on that trade Booker island...but I guess I haven't seen you post a ton since late last year when I thought that was your feelings on the matter.

I guess really up and down on both.

You and I have discussed this. I have admitted to being up and down about Ayton. I'm not even down on Ayton right now. I was just blown away by what I saw of Wiseman.

I didn't say that Wiseman outplayed Ayton overall, whether in their respective second games or otherwise. I'm saying that in that game, Wiseman did those three things better than I've ever seen Ayton do - protect the rim, finish, and shoot (threes). Wiseman gets better arc on his shot than Ayton ever will. He has the athleticism and agility to get weakside blocks - Ayton for whatever reason doesn't. And he dunks. Ayton, well, you know.

Ayton's lighter on his feet, obviously, and he may be a better overall defender due to his versatility: Wiseman's kind of a plodder. I think there's a good chance Ayton will be a better shooter from the mid-range throughout his career, because there's less motion to his shot, which stays high and is mostly a wrist action. It's a more versatile, but much flatter, and less consistent, shot. And dunks are prettier but they're still just worth two points - still, I'd be ecstatic if Ayton got 8 free throws in a game.

I'm just communicating the pain of witnessing a better, younger center prospect. It has nothing to do with my feelings about Ayton and everything to do with Wiseman.

GO SUNS.

Makes sense, but I wouldn't put a ton of stock in 3s this early. I didn't watch Wiseman but I will have to see his interior defense. Also if he could switch and would be worthy of playing in a series against a team playing small ball.

[suns12345]

Wiseman>Ayton

In his second game, Wiseman finished, shot and protected the rim better than Ayton has in any game during his whole career.

We can't trade Ayton, because he's still a gifted defender without whom our team's ceiling is severely limited. But he doesn't have the talent or mentality to be a superstar. What a disappointment.

We were looking for a goat. And for all we suffered, we actually had a chance to draft one. What we got instead was sh*t all over our office.

It's okay. We still got a crack at a title with this core. But maaaan it's hard to watch a rookie Wiseman - the #2 pick in a bad draft - so severely outplay Ayton - the #1 pick in a terrific draft.

Not sure if serious.

Wiseman outplaying Ayton, after 2 (two!) games. And that after his team got beaten by 30 points difference in both games.

Teams have such little scouting on him too. Basically nothing from college and a few NBA games.
I'm sure he'll be good but let's wait for the league to catch up first before we crown him the next big thing.

Wiseman looks as mopey and lackadaisical as Ayton, if not worse, and the one game of his I did watch, 15 of his 20 something points were in garbage time in the 4th.

[Saberestar]

Memphis has lost again. 0-2. I like it.

[nevetsov]

Of Wiseman's 18 points, didn't 9 come from threes, and 5 from FTs?

So he only scored 2 2PT field goals. We would be blasting Ayton for being soft if he had that kind of production inside.

[Saberestar]

The Thunder's roster is a joke. The second unit is hilarious...I think this is one of the worst rosters that I have seen in years. Horford and George Hill are their second and third best players, enough said.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Poor Knicks fans, they know this year is a tank but were all excited about Obi and Quickley and both are now knicked up (pun intended)

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