Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

[sunsbg]

To maximize Ayton's abilities the team really needs someone like Paul both mentoring and involving him more. Booker is a great scorer, but he doesn't make players around him better that's clear now. CP3 displayed much better chemistry with DA in the two games they played together than DB for two seasons. Huge difference in playmaking ability. Ayton clearly needs a great PG to help with expanding his game and hopefully gaining more confidence being more than a 2nd/3rd option, which he apparently has already accepted.

[lilfishi22]

The annual new year new me comments from DA

[GoodBehavior]

As a Suns fan, you learn to ignore what DA says. I think he says it to pump himself up more than anything. Some guys just need to talk themselves in to playing well, day in and day out.

I do, however, listen to his coach and teammates. Monty, Booker, Frank, Saric, etc.. all says he will be a force in this league. Not just a fringe All-star, or a LMA-type player. But a dominant force. I trust them, so I am optimistic this is the year DA breaks out.

It's only preseason, but when he was not fatigue, he was giving Gobert and Gasol problems. When he was teaming up with CP, Gobert and Gasol looked bad defensively. The rest of the league don't have guys like Gobert and Gasol, so he's going to feast for sure on lesser competition. If Chris can stay reasonably healthy this year, DA's stats should be 23pt / 12 rb / 3 assist / 1.5 blocks / 1 steals. FWIW, those stats are better than Embiid's and KAT's at the same age.

[lilfishi22]

As a Suns fan, you learn to ignore what DA says. I think he says it to pump himself up more than anything. Some guys just need to talk themselves in to playing well, day in and day out.

I do, however, listen to his coach and teammates. Monty, Booker, Frank, Saric, etc.. all says he will be a force in this league. Not just a fringe All-star, or a LMA-type player. But a dominant force. I trust them, so I am optimistic this is the year DA breaks out.

It's only preseason, but when he was not fatigue, he was giving Gobert and Gasol problems. When he was teaming up with CP, Gobert and Gasol looked bad defensively. The rest of the league don't have guys like Gobert and Gasol, so he's going to feast for sure on lesser competition. If Chris can stay reasonably healthy this year, DA's stats should be 23pt / 12 rb / 3 assist / 1.5 blocks / 1 steals. FWIW, those stats are better than Embiid's and KAT's at the same age.

Not to disagree with you because I agree about ignoring DA self-motivational quips but regarding what his coaches and team mates say, it's really just motivational quips to DA and to show him the guys around him have confidence in him. I also don't really think there's anything else they could say.

[GoodBehavior]

As a Suns fan, you learn to ignore what DA says. I think he says it to pump himself up more than anything. Some guys just need to talk themselves in to playing well, day in and day out.

I do, however, listen to his coach and teammates. Monty, Booker, Frank, Saric, etc.. all says he will be a force in this league. Not just a fringe All-star, or a LMA-type player. But a dominant force. I trust them, so I am optimistic this is the year DA breaks out.

It's only preseason, but when he was not fatigue, he was giving Gobert and Gasol problems. When he was teaming up with CP, Gobert and Gasol looked bad defensively. The rest of the league don't have guys like Gobert and Gasol, so he's going to feast for sure on lesser competition. If Chris can stay reasonably healthy this year, DA's stats should be 23pt / 12 rb / 3 assist / 1.5 blocks / 1 steals. FWIW, those stats are better than Embiid's and KAT's at the same age.

Not to disagree with you because I agree about ignoring DA self-motivational quips but regarding what his coaches and team mates say, it's really just motivational quips to DA and to show him the guys around him have confidence in him. I also don't really think there's anything else they could say.

His teammates are very specific. I think it's one thing if Josh Jackson or Oubre were to compliment him (one is a knucklehead and one is a good buddy). It's entirely different when Book and Monty expects him to be a force in this league. I give more credence to the latter. Frank and Dario don't strike me as being motivational teammates. FWIW, Frank expects DA to be a multiple DPOY winner and an All-stars for lots of years. Dario believes he can be better than Embiid and KAT, both are former teammates of Dario. I don't think they throw those comments lightly.

[Fo-Real]

What young unappreciated big do we target as part of a trade for Ayton?!?! Watching him play is infuriating!!

[sunskerr]

Always thought we should have signed Wood and traded Ayton.

[Revived]

What young unappreciated big do we target as part of a trade for Ayton?!?!

Read on Twitter

[Mulhollanddrive]

Wiseman highlights look good.

But I'm sure he has his faults too.

[Saberestar]

What young unappreciated big do we target as part of a trade for Ayton?!?!

Read on Twitter

I like Collins but he is worse than Ayton on defense.

Trading one for the other would be a lateral move IMO. Both are good frontcourt players that have their own limitations for now and probably will command about the same money as a RFAs.

Collins is a way better 3p shooter and better pick&roll partner. He reacts faster than Ayton and he is more explosive.

On the other hand Ayton is bigger and can defend better to players with size. Better rebounder and overall a better defender than Collins.

I would not make the trade for now because Ayton is one year younger in age and experience and he can make a leap this season. Their value as a players is probably pretty similar.

I would do it IF the relationship between the Suns and Ayton would be broken or close to...but that is not the case so no need to overreact for now.

[sunskerr]

Put a little thought into this, and I think a lot of people will agree with what I've come up with:

We need to accept that Ayton is really likely not going to be an offensive star on our team. Just have him develop his 3 ball since developing handles and a face-up/drive game is probably out of reach. If it's not out of reach (even though he hasn't shown any handles whatsoever so I think it's nearly safe to say it is...), it will take a long time to develop a dribble game. But the 3 point shot is the easiest ticket in the game to offensive impact. Lots of players go into a single offseason without one and come out with a respectable shot.

Ayton is also not a guy who likes to take contact on offense, so it will fit him well. A center who can hit a 3 or two per game and not be exploited playing perimeter defense is still an valuable player to have. If his defense keeps improving, he could still be an all star, ala Rudy Gobert. We should be utilizing him as such, where he only scores off other players and offensive rebounds, and does not create his own shot. This is a very acceptable development path.

This means stop force feeding Ayton his post ups, especially if we want to win. I think at some level we are already doing this now, and even going back to the bubble (look at Ayton's bubble performance on offense). The games mattered in the bubble and we played the best offense we could, which meant not going out of our way to get Ayton post looks and mid rangers. I think there is a possibility you will see this continue this season because we want to win games and make the playoffs.

Unfortunately this also means we may need to keep looking for another star to pair with Booker, even now but especially post-Chris Paul.

If we do this I'd like to stick with Ayton. But I won't lie: calling up Atlanta for John Collins sounds really **** nice right about now. His defense might not be as good as Ayton's, but he did make some improvement last year. If anything you could just get Collins and pair him with a role playing defensive player at either the 4 or 5 (since Collins can play both).

[Revived]

What young unappreciated big do we target as part of a trade for Ayton?!?!

Read on Twitter

I like Collins but he is worse than Ayton on defense.

Trading one for the other would be a lateral move IMO. Both are good frontcourt players that have their own limitations for now and probably will command about the same money as a RFAs.

Collins is a way better 3p shooter and better pick&roll partner. He reacts faster than Ayton and he is more explosive.

On the other hand Ayton is bigger and can defend better to players with size. Better rebounder and overall a better defender than Collins.

I would not make the trade for now because Ayton is one year younger in age and experience and he can make a leap this season. Their value as a players is probably pretty similar.

I would do it IF the relationship between the Suns and Ayton would be broken or close to...but that is not the case so no need to overreact for now.

Collins has improved a lot defensively and is only slightly worse than Ayton on that end. He also has far superior offensive skills than Ayton does. 1 yr in age isn’t anything significant but even taking that into account, Collins was a far more offensively skilled player than Ayton is at the same age. Watch Collins highlights from when he was the same age as Ayton and tell me if you’ve seen Ayton do any of it; just watch the first min or so if you’d like. Look how he gets open and explosive he is.

Spoiler:

https://youtu.be/dknMlIs4qt8

As for his defense;

The Hawks have one of the worst defenses in the NBA in any configuration they play, but allow 2.8 fewer points per 100 possessions with Collins on the floor. His block rate spiked after a down year in 2019, and opponents took fewer shots at the rim with him on the court this season. Collins defended more than seven shots per game within six feet of the rim this year (up from just five in 2019), and held shooters to 55 percent shooting on those attempts. He has gotten better identifying and snuffing out incoming threats, and made a point of being more vocal on defense.

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/john-collins-has-become-one-of-the-nbas-most-versatile-weapons

Collins has never had the luxury of playing with elite defensive players like Ayton has. Playing with Bridges and CP3 will help even more on that end as opposed to Trae Young and Cam Reddish.

[Bogyo]

I just hope he doesn't get a big contract from us, he will mail it in afterwards for sure.
But when Hollywood decides to do a remake for the Wizzard of Oz, he should be in it - 3 for 1 deal, perfect roles for him.
No brain, no heart, no courage.

[bhawk]

The Ayton watch is on like donkey kong. Two games into the 2021 season and I'm not feeling Ayton at all. In our loss against Sacremento last night, he did not play with any passion, hustle or fire that I could see. He was outplayed by all people - Richaun Holmes. Come on man. We're all watching DeAndre. This is YOUR year to put up or shut up. I've called Ayton a perennial 20/10 player. Maybe not, at this rate.

I still put Ayton in the players with "potential" to improve significantly. BUT "potential" and "upside" are funny things, because these words mean nothing without heart, hard-work, passion and the desire to REALIZE potential. Ayton is still young and definitely immature. So, I think, there is time for Ayton to grow up, mature, and figure it all out.

I am still cheering for Ayton to live up to the HIGH expectations that come with being the #1 pick, but my patience is running thin, very thin.

[handsome salary]

Picking Ayton number one is the star atop the tree shaped **** pile of Sarver's ownership. The NBA handed the Suns the chance to elevate as on organization and they chose a giggling checkout who'd probably be happiest on Dancing with the Stars.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

I like Collins but he is worse than Ayton on defense.

Trading one for the other would be a lateral move IMO. Both are good frontcourt players that have their own limitations for now and probably will command about the same money as a RFAs.

Collins is a way better 3p shooter and better pick&roll partner. He reacts faster than Ayton and he is more explosive.

On the other hand Ayton is bigger and can defend better to players with size. Better rebounder and overall a better defender than Collins.

I would not make the trade for now because Ayton is one year younger in age and experience and he can make a leap this season. Their value as a players is probably pretty similar.

I would do it IF the relationship between the Suns and Ayton would be broken or close to...but that is not the case so no need to overreact for now.

Collins has improved a lot defensively and is only slightly worse than Ayton on that end. He also has far superior offensive skills than Ayton does. 1 yr in age isn’t anything significant but even taking that into account, Collins was a far more offensively skilled player than Ayton is at the same age. Watch Collins highlights from when he was the same age as Ayton and tell me if you’ve seen Ayton do any of it; just watch the first min or so if you’d like. Look how he gets open and explosive he is.

Spoiler:

https://youtu.be/dknMlIs4qt8

As for his defense;

The Hawks have one of the worst defenses in the NBA in any configuration they play, but allow 2.8 fewer points per 100 possessions with Collins on the floor. His block rate spiked after a down year in 2019, and opponents took fewer shots at the rim with him on the court this season. Collins defended more than seven shots per game within six feet of the rim this year (up from just five in 2019), and held shooters to 55 percent shooting on those attempts. He has gotten better identifying and snuffing out incoming threats, and made a point of being more vocal on defense.

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/john-collins-has-become-one-of-the-nbas-most-versatile-weapons

Collins has never had the luxury of playing with elite defensive players like Ayton has. Playing with Bridges and CP3 will help even more on that end as opposed to Trae Young and Cam Reddish.

Yeah, I like Collins and I was talking way back about consider him in a trade for Ayton, so in part I think like you. BUT I want to give Ayton a true chance this season, so I would not trade him now.

I would give him at least until the deadline, no way I entertain a trade before that date if there is not a serious problem between him and Monty Williams/James Jones or a group of players.

[WeekapaugGroove]

He needs to be better in the pick and roll because if that's not a big part of his offensive game then you're left with way way way too many fade away middies and frankly Id rather just trade him than have to watch that for the next decade.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[NapoleonII]

I really don't know why they aren't feeding him. Yes he can't really drive/ball-handle and he avoids contact. But if there's a mismatch and Ayton is 6-10 feet away from the basket, give him the damn ball. He's got a nice touch and a couple of moves that will go in at a nice clip. Ayton is also an underrated passer (even though he passes too much). Let them double. Let him figure it out.

It's not 2005 where you run your offense through a big, but you can still do it in spurts if you have Ayton.

I'd take him out around 6 minutes in, then put him back in at the start of the second quarter with the bench units to feast.

At this point my main hope for Ayton to become a poor-mans hybrid of Jokic/Embiid.

[Revived]

I like Collins but he is worse than Ayton on defense.

Trading one for the other would be a lateral move IMO. Both are good frontcourt players that have their own limitations for now and probably will command about the same money as a RFAs.

Collins is a way better 3p shooter and better pick&roll partner. He reacts faster than Ayton and he is more explosive.

On the other hand Ayton is bigger and can defend better to players with size. Better rebounder and overall a better defender than Collins.

I would not make the trade for now because Ayton is one year younger in age and experience and he can make a leap this season. Their value as a players is probably pretty similar.

I would do it IF the relationship between the Suns and Ayton would be broken or close to...but that is not the case so no need to overreact for now.

Collins has improved a lot defensively and is only slightly worse than Ayton on that end. He also has far superior offensive skills than Ayton does. 1 yr in age isn’t anything significant but even taking that into account, Collins was a far more offensively skilled player than Ayton is at the same age. Watch Collins highlights from when he was the same age as Ayton and tell me if you’ve seen Ayton do any of it; just watch the first min or so if you’d like. Look how he gets open and explosive he is.

Spoiler:

https://youtu.be/dknMlIs4qt8

As for his defense;

The Hawks have one of the worst defenses in the NBA in any configuration they play, but allow 2.8 fewer points per 100 possessions with Collins on the floor. His block rate spiked after a down year in 2019, and opponents took fewer shots at the rim with him on the court this season. Collins defended more than seven shots per game within six feet of the rim this year (up from just five in 2019), and held shooters to 55 percent shooting on those attempts. He has gotten better identifying and snuffing out incoming threats, and made a point of being more vocal on defense.

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/john-collins-has-become-one-of-the-nbas-most-versatile-weapons

Collins has never had the luxury of playing with elite defensive players like Ayton has. Playing with Bridges and CP3 will help even more on that end as opposed to Trae Young and Cam Reddish.

Yeah, I like Collins and I was talking way back about consider him in a trade for Ayton, so in part I think like you. BUT I want to give Ayton a true chance this season, so I would not trade him now.

I would give him at least until the deadline, no way I entertain a trade before that date if there is not a serious problem between him and Monty Williams/James Jones or a group of players.

Yeah I wouldn’t want to do it until we get closer to the trade deadline before even considering it.

It just gets tricky because Ayton is up for an extension next summer and he’s gonna see at least 2 of his draft mates Luka and Trae get the max. I feel like he will gripe if he doesn’t get anything close to that. And no I think offering him a max for his “potential” rather than his play would be an idiotic move. That’s what Minnesota did with Wiggins and it is now one of the worst contracts in the league.