Lets talk Zach Lavine

[Kolkmania]

Zach LaVine won't be going to a rebuilding team like the Bulls.

So contending teams are supposed to give up great assets for him?

Mirotic was playing even better and was on an even better contract. And he got a pile of garbage back.

Did you see what the Pelicans got for Jrue Holiday? A freaking haul. LaVine brings back similar value.

Offensively they probably have a similar impact (LaVine better self-creator, Jrue a better passer). However Jrue has defended guards, KD and AD successfully in the playoffs. Contenders often need a two-way guard who can supplement their stars, not a defensive liability who will take shots from their stars. So I cannot see a team selling the farm for LaVine tbh.

Not saying that he has no trade value, just that multiple 1st round picks + swaps is not realistic.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Imo best offers realisticly we could got for Zach (he is not comparable to Jrue because defence,previous success and Bucks situation).Lakers Kuzma,Horton Tucker, future first 25-30 range most likley, dont like Kuzma he is worse version of Lauri. Dallas T.Hardaway,Brunson and second round pick, not enough. Milwaukee DiVicenzo,Wilson and two second round picks, solid but not good enough. Charlotte Rozier and two second rp for Lavine, not interested for that. Maybe our best offers Winslow,Dieng and future mid to late first from Memphis for Lavine and Young. Knicks Knox,Nikitlina, 2021 Mavs frp for Lavine and Hutchinson. So i dont think his value is super high.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I'd move him. For two reasons. One, there's no reason to think he's going to re-sign here when his contract is up - I think the window to build something meaningful here with Zach as a core piece has passed imo, and there's not enough time to do it before his contract is up. And two, if you think, as many do, that Coby is a SG and not a PG, then they're not a great fit together.

I do agree that we shouldn't necessarily expect a Jrue-type haul. I would be happy with one good 2021 pick. Coldfish listed some teams upthread, and I feel like Golden State could be a good trade partner if, and it's a huge if, you're willing to eat the Wiggins contract(it's the only filler they have other than Oubre, and I don't think they want to part with him). LaVine+Felicio for Wiggins+MIN 2021 1st(it's top 3 protected in 2021 and unprotected in 2022, so the protections are not too bad).

LaVine is a much better player than Wiggins(more than the stats show, certainly a more efficient scorer and much better shooter), as a good a stand-in(offensively at least) for Klay as the Warriors could hope to get, would make the Warriors better on court right now, and they'll have a much better chance at re-signing him as well. And it will save them tax money, at least in 2021-22.

If the Warriors want some more value, you could replace Felicio with Sato or Thad, either of whom would be good depth for them.

The Wiggins contract is ugly, but that pick could be 4-10 in 2021 or 1-10 in 2022. Yeah, with Edwards on board, the Wolves may improve and the pick may not end up being that good, but it's a risk worth taking. It could end up being a player well worth taking on Wiggins. Taking bad money for assets is something a lot of you clamor for, and this would be that.

I don't know, maybe you guys hate it, maybe you think the Warriors wouldn't do it, but it's the kind of deal we should be looking for.

[TheAlanParsons]

In all of Bulls history, how many players were a more elite scorer than Lavine, and who are they?

I count 1. I don't think I have to name him.

Who are you going to find who can score at the level Lavine can, and don't you need 2 of those guys to truly compete?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Orlando Woolridge?

And what part of "net negative player" don't you understand?

Orlando Woolridge? That's funny.

When you actually have an answer and want a discussion, let me know.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

How is it funny? Because Orlando smoked your boy Zach in almost all statistical categories? Good god. Have you ever heard of Artis Gilmore either, or were you born 20 years ago?

[Stratmaster]

Orlando Woolridge?

And what part of "net negative player" don't you understand?

Orlando Woolridge? That's funny.

When you actually have an answer and want a discussion, let me know.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

How is it funny? Because Orlando smoked your boy Zach in almost all statistical categories? Good god. Have you ever heard of Artis Gilmore either, or were you born 20 years ago?

Orlando Woolridge. A better scorer than Lavine

Bob Love was a better scorer than Woolridge son. You know who Bob Love is? That would have at least been a reasonable thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Leslie Forman]

Did you see what the Pelicans got for Jrue Holiday? A freaking haul. LaVine brings back similar value.

No, he doesn't, not even close, whether you want to believe it or not.

The way Jrue Holiday is looked at around the league is drastically different from how Zach LaVine is. If anyone thinks NBA front offices are just looking at Zach's PPG and saying "oh he must be amazing" they are mistaken.

And now that Giannis is locked in that huge haul for New Orleans doesn't really look like anything special now.

[TheAlanParsons]

Orlando Woolridge? That's funny.

When you actually have an answer and want a discussion, let me know.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

How is it funny? Because Orlando smoked your boy Zach in almost all statistical categories? Good god. Have you ever heard of Artis Gilmore either, or were you born 20 years ago?

Orlando Woolridge. A better scorer than Lavine

Bob Love was a better scorer than Woolridge son. You know who Bob Love is? That would have at least been a reasonable thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

[League Circles]

Obviously the answer to the poll question is "depends on what we get offered".

[Cabbage bulls]

Did you see what the Pelicans got for Jrue Holiday? A freaking haul. LaVine brings back similar value.

No, he doesn't, not even close, whether you want to believe it or not.

The way Jrue Holiday is looked at around the league is drastically different from how Zach LaVine is. If anyone thinks NBA front offices are just looking at Zach's PPG and saying "oh he must be amazing" they are mistaken.

And now that Giannis is locked in that huge haul for New Orleans doesn't really look like anything special now.

Move over DRoseReturnChi, we have found somebody that hates LaVine more than you do.

[dice]

How is it funny? Because Orlando smoked your boy Zach in almost all statistical categories? Good god. Have you ever heard of Artis Gilmore either, or were you born 20 years ago?

Orlando Woolridge. A better scorer than Lavine

Bob Love was a better scorer than Woolridge son. You know who Bob Love is? That would have at least been a reasonable thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

[aguifs]

We're going to pile up losses. He's going to get frustrated. He still have some value aroung the league. We have to trade him asap.

[TheAlanParsons]

Orlando Woolridge. A better scorer than Lavine

Bob Love was a better scorer than Woolridge son. You know who Bob Love is? That would have at least been a reasonable thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

So by your own metric Woolridge is better. Am I taking cray pills here?!? And yes, I'd take BG7 over Levine each and every time. Not even close.

[PaKii94]

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

So by your own metric Woolridge is better. Am I taking cray pills here?!? And yes, I'd take BG7 over Levine each and every time. Not even close.

I think dice was giving you numbers to help make your point. You were initially talking with stratmaster

[TheAlanParsons]

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

So by your own metric Woolridge is better. Am I taking cray pills here?!? And yes, I'd take BG7 over Levine each and every time. Not even close.

I think dice was giving you numbers to help make your point. You were initially talking with stratmaster

Oh thanks.

[Cabbage bulls]

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

So by your own metric Woolridge is better. Am I taking cray pills here?!? And yes, I'd take BG7 over Levine each and every time. Not even close.

and you would be wrong for doing so.

[Wingy]

I get the logic behind trading Zach now, but I’d rather keep him, and shed everyone else except Pat Will.

You gotta have some good pieces already in place if you want to attract free agents.

Look at how bad the Warriors are with just Steph. Zach can’t save a team full of nobodies. I wouldn’t be afraid to dump the whole rest of the roster for best offer, even Coby.

Dumping Zach says “business as usual in Chicago” - which is a dangerous look. Combine that with the new lotto odds...you keep Zach, let him know it’s him/Pat/2021 pick as the new foundation, and FA help with AKME’s guys will be on the way.

I wouldn't mind this as long as zach will remain committed to the bulls. Im sure the losing is getting to him though and may want out by the time his contract is up.

That’s where hopefully our upgraded FO comes in. Build trust, and a relationship with the player. Communicate. Let Zach know the plan, and feel like he’s part of it. Show him a real vision for the team. Be honest that it’s gonna suck for awhile. I feel like AKME should be able to sell this.

Case in point to all those saying Zach’s gonna get us a bunch more wins. See how Steph Curry & a bunch of Titos could barely beat our low-ceiling squad of GarPax Lack of All Stars. Zach isn’t prime Lebron/KD.

[FranchisePlayer]

Remove the question mark from the title and add letter f to "or".

[erasmusmrr]

Lavine for both NY picks? Or the GS deal. Or Otto for a bad deal and assets...Wiggins/Harris/Wall?
NY isn't the model franchise but last year they signed Morris and traded him for a 1st. This off-season they took some small deals and got a bunch of 2nds...

[rtblues]

If you think about the future, why would you want to MAX-OUT a player who isn't a realistic #1 guy on a contending team?
You wind with an overpay, hard to trade contract, and a one-way player that has a low basketball IQ?

Another way to think about it is, let's say ZL is looking at something in the neighborhood of 30MIL per/ for anywhere from 3-5 years, with maybe a player option on the last year. Now, step back and peruse the players who warrant similar salaries and honestly ask yourself, are there better options for the price and someone who is a 2-way player that affects winning?

Because for that kind of a dough, that's what you should be getting. I'm just trying to honestly evaluate the talent/money dichotomy to see if it makes sense. The more I do it, the less sense it makes. It's not personal, Zach is a nice dude and great teammate, but rather only from a business/basketball point of view, like a GM would.

[Stratmaster]

The point of the comparison is that think Lavine freaking sucks, in case you didn't notice.

And of course the glorious Zach Lavine Bulls have maxed out at 27 wins, which was the floor of the Orlando Woolridge Bulls. lol I can't figure out why anyone defends this bum.

as chicago bulls, per 100 possessions and TS% over/(under) league average:

41.5p, 4.4% MJ

26.3p, 10.4% gilmore

29.1p, 5.6% walker
28.1p, 4.3% woolridge
30.5p, 1.6% gordon
33.7p, 0.2% lavine
25.0p, 2.7% butler
26.2p, 1.7% theus
25.7p, 0.4% pippen
27.1 p, (1.6%) love

there's your order of most effective scorers in bulls history (based on all years in bulls uniform as opposed to peak performance, which leaves derrick rose off the list). 4 seasons minimum. flip gordon and lavine if you like

So by your own metric Woolridge is better. Am I taking cray pills here?!? And yes, I'd take BG7 over Levine each and every time. Not even close.

That wasn't me, but that list just shows that TS% didn't reflect the best scorer, unless Woolridge, Gilmore and Walker were better than Jordan.

Every number requires context. High volume generally negatively affects TS%.

If you would rather have BG or Woolridge for your go to scorer than Lavine...well...it pretty much says we just need to agree to disagree.

But hey, Alan Parsons was an innovator. We can agree on that. Although he tended to overproduce a bit, at least for my taste.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app