Greatest Peaks series (Thinking Basketball/Ben Taylor)

[LukaTheGOAT]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

[Doctor MJ]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

So here's the thing: If you're looking to be a rover, you're not looking to be a man defender. It's fine to say that Jordan when he decided to be a man defender was very good at it, but that's really not what he was doing much of the time.

I think it's telling that in the year before Jordan won DPOY, Michael Cooper won and Jordan publicly rebuked that. What did he say? "Look at his stats!". He was saying "Cooper's not doing that much because he's not getting blocks and steals", but of course, that's not what the Lakers WANTED him to do, that's what Magic did for them. What Cooper's job was was to be the guy who took the toughest perimeter match up all the time and to nullify him as much as possible.

Jordan of course would probably saying "I was doing the work of both Cooper & Magic on defense", but of course that's impossible. You can't be best man defender and the big gambler at the same moment.

Note that I'm not saying you can't get steals while being a great man defender (see Kawhi), but if you're playing the passing lanes or roving to double team an unsuspecting Karl Malone, that's not what you're doing.

[ShotCreator]

Amazing work from Ben Taylor.

Jordan’s defense screams decent at best to me. No way in hell he was elite.

I’ve seen enough NBA to know, guys who constantly abandon schemes and fundamentals are usually outright negatives.

It’s so hard to overcome that. Jordan had the defensive talent to make enough positive plays to outweigh it but not even close to the level of elite defense IMO.

Guys like Tony Allen and Prime Chris Paul were amazing because they didn’t sacrifice proper positioning to get a **** load of steals and deflections.

Jordan was just a mess on that end in this film.

Lol, it really bothers me because I hate when players do it on teams I root for.

Define elite? Was Wade an elite defender in his prime? What about Kawhi?

Also, schemes in the 80's/90's were not really what they are now, not even close in fact. Not to mention that you had stuff like 'illegal defense' in the rulebook which prevented teams from doing much experimenting on defense by playing different sets and overloading sides... It was basically guard your own player, and you are allowed to help on drives or double someone on-ball, that was about it, mostly...

Reminds me of how the Celtics managed to be one of the best defensive teams in the league in the mid 80's with Bird flying all over the place... Bird is the epitome of a player that abandoned schemes and fundamentals in favor of free-roaming defense and improvisation with his help defense (which is also something ElGee mentions in his Bird videos), yet, it didn't seem to hurt the Celtics as much defensively because you could get away with that a lot more in the 80's... Teams really didn't have the offensive schemes, multi-faceted talent and shooting to punish a guy like Bird leaving someone open on the perimeter to go roam all the way to the other side of the floor...

That's why i said it's hard to compare Jordan with someone like Tony Allen defensively 30 years apart... Jordan didn't really have to close out hard on the 3pt line so he could afford to misposition a bit and gamble as it wasn't getting punished nearly as much as it would now. I think MJ was aware of this... If he would be getting 3 pointers rained on him because of this he would probably learn to stop gambling as much and adjust. Also, the fact the the paint was so much more packed back in the day also meant that Jordan had plenty of help to cover for his gambling and leaving potential open lanes behind him... Nowadays, if you gamble and miss, there's no one in the paint to stop the driving threat because everyone is standing around on the perimeter. But Jordan could recover back and make a challenge from behind in time a lot easier back then because it was harder for the offensive player to get inside for a quality shot.

Maybe another overlooked aspect of Jordan's value defensively is that he was very good at not turning the ball over stupidly relative to other high-usage players, which i guess would translate into giving less easy transition opportunities to the opponents.

The Bulls were actually the 3rd best defense in the league in 1988, and i don't think that cast is anything special defensively... Oakley i guess is decent due to his rebounding and tenacity, but he wasn't much of a rim protector due to his size. Corzine was on his last legs, wasn't anything impressive for a Big. Sellers wasn't good. Paxson/Vincent were midgets. Pippen was solid, but young and only played 21 mpg, and Grant was decent, but again kind of young and not yet fully developed into what he'd later become. Jordan played 500 more minutes than the next person (Oakley) during that regular season, and another 1000 more than the next two (Corzine and Sellers)... So i'd imagine he had something to do with the overall result.

Wade was absolutely not an elite defender. Kawhi certainly was. He actually comes to mind as one of the rare low mistake, yet highly disruptive defenders of the era.

But Kawhi is just way more talented than Jordan defensively to begin with. Stronger, longer, same hand eye coordination. Quick feet to top all this off even if not as quick as 200 pound Jordan, and way smarter, disciplined and fundamentally sound.

Kawhi can effectively guard more plays in more ways than Jordan.

Wade was a gambler just like Jordan. And his man defense was solid at best. His prime DRAPM reflects it.

And Jordan was in a high ORTG era. League average ORTG was higher in his prime than in Tony Allen’s.

You can’t just run around and do whatever you want. It was a high FTR and OREB league. Giving up number advantages in the paint and completely blowing rotations and will hurt teams in those areas without question.

Bird played off ball defense much closer to Chris Paul mentally because he was so smart, like Paul with knowing what passing seams would look like before they developed.

Bird wasn’t roaming for the steal, he was roaming to cut off passing lanes, the steal is really just a best case scenario, but Bird was many levels mentally above what Jordan was doing. The steal was the objective for MJ.

I can’t believe he would give up penetration just for the chance at a swipe down. That’s like letting someone in your house just to maybe steal their wallet. Such a ridiculously high risk defensive style lol.

[Lost92Bricks]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

I don't think people really know HOW to look at defense. Jordan's incredible activity on defense far outweighs any mistakes he might have made. His lateral quickness was insane, he was everywhere creating turnovers and he was a legitimate shotblocker.

I watched an old Knicks game the other day and he stripped someone on the last 3 possessions of regulation to send it to overtime.

[freethedevil]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

I don't think people really know HOW to look at defense. Jordan's incredible activity on defense far outweighs any mistakes he might have made. His lateral quickness was insane, he was everywhere creating turnovers and he was a legitimate shotblocker.

I watched an old Knicks game the other day and he stripped someone on the last 3 possessions of regulation to send it to overtime.

If by legtimate shotblocker you mean the second most valuable defende for most of the possessions he got blocks on then yes.

Jordan's rim protection pales in comparison to forwards/bigs, he finished inthe 17th percentile of defensive errors, and he played in a scheme that squeezed every drop of value he had to offer anf despite all that his impact on team defenses pales in comaprison to say lebron, kawhi, ect.

[freethedevil]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

the issue is shooting guard is the second lest valauble position defneisvely so when you're comapring him to atg's, this isn't saying much at all.

[Peregrine01]

On offense, I wished Ben had talked more about Jordan's off-ball value (which he's known to emphasize quite often). Despite taking a lot of shots, Jordan wasn't a ball stopper like many other scorers were. He had a Bird-like quality where he would roam around looking for openings in the defense when he didn't have the ball. And when he did have it, he would attack quickly off the catch. This made him portable next to another ball-dominant star (Pippen).

On defense, I don't think Ben credits Jordan's motor and the effectiveness of his aggression well enough. Yes, he gambled, but prime Jordan had an "everywhere-ness" that gave the opposition pause and this kind attack (along with Pippen and Grant and later Rodman) stifled offenses in a way that I haven't seen from many other teams. I tend to think the Bulls' vaunted 90s defense (despite never really having legitimate big man anchors) was built off Jordan's defensive style. I recall many games where the Bulls would press and trap so effectively that the opposing team had trouble even advancing the ball past half-court.

[Gregoire]

Predicting next episodes: Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Lebron, Curry.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

I don't think people really know HOW to look at defense. Jordan's incredible activity on defense far outweighs any mistakes he might have made. His lateral quickness was insane, he was everywhere creating turnovers and he was a legitimate shotblocker.

I watched an old Knicks game the other day and he stripped someone on the last 3 possessions of regulation to send it to overtime.

If by legtimate shotblocker you mean the second most valuable defende for most of the possessions he got blocks on then yes.

Jordan's rim protection pales in comparison to forwards/bigs, he finished inthe 17th percentile of defensive errors, and he played in a scheme that squeezed every drop of value he had to offer anf despite all that his impact on team defenses pales in comaprison to say lebron, kawhi, ect.

I agree, I mean he was a good rim-protector for a shooting guard (2 guard).

[LukaTheGOAT]

Predicting next episodes: Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Lebron, Curry.

David Robinson is actually next. You can see that from the sneak preview at the very end of the video.

[GSP]

On offense, I wished Ben had talked more about Jordan's off-ball value (which he's known to emphasize quite often). Despite taking a lot of shots, Jordan wasn't a ball stopper like many other scorers were. He had a Bird-like quality where he would roam around looking for openings in the defense when he didn't have the ball. And when he did have it, he would attack quickly off the catch. This made him portable next to another ball-dominant star (Pippen).

On defense, I don't think Ben credits Jordan's motor and the effectiveness of his aggression well enough. Yes, he gambled, but prime Jordan had an "everywhere-ness" that gave the opposition pause and this kind attack (along with Pippen and Grant and later Rodman) stifled offenses in a way that I haven't seen from many other teams. I tend to think the Bulls' vaunted 90s defense (despite never really having legitimate big man anchors) was built off Jordan's defensive style. I recall many games where the Bulls would press and trap so effectively that the opposing team had trouble even advancing the ball past half-court.

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

[LA Bird]

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

The 98 Bulls were the #1 defense in the league without either Jordan or Pippen on court. People only ever talk about his triangle offense but Phil Jackson teams have often outperformed their talent on the defensive end as well.

[Owly]

On offense, I wished Ben had talked more about Jordan's off-ball value (which he's known to emphasize quite often). Despite taking a lot of shots, Jordan wasn't a ball stopper like many other scorers were. He had a Bird-like quality where he would roam around looking for openings in the defense when he didn't have the ball. And when he did have it, he would attack quickly off the catch. This made him portable next to another ball-dominant star (Pippen).

On defense, I don't think Ben credits Jordan's motor and the effectiveness of his aggression well enough. Yes, he gambled, but prime Jordan had an "everywhere-ness" that gave the opposition pause and this kind attack (along with Pippen and Grant and later Rodman) stifled offenses in a way that I haven't seen from many other teams. I tend to think the Bulls' vaunted 90s defense (despite never really having legitimate big man anchors) was built off Jordan's defensive style. I recall many games where the Bulls would press and trap so effectively that the opposing team had trouble even advancing the ball past half-court.

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

And Randy Brown and Scott Burrell. Brown was well regarded within the role of defensive specialist (though not much else) and Burrell, though oft injured (in part because of his all-out style), was a productive and effective defender.

[Peregrine01]

On offense, I wished Ben had talked more about Jordan's off-ball value (which he's known to emphasize quite often). Despite taking a lot of shots, Jordan wasn't a ball stopper like many other scorers were. He had a Bird-like quality where he would roam around looking for openings in the defense when he didn't have the ball. And when he did have it, he would attack quickly off the catch. This made him portable next to another ball-dominant star (Pippen).

On defense, I don't think Ben credits Jordan's motor and the effectiveness of his aggression well enough. Yes, he gambled, but prime Jordan had an "everywhere-ness" that gave the opposition pause and this kind attack (along with Pippen and Grant and later Rodman) stifled offenses in a way that I haven't seen from many other teams. I tend to think the Bulls' vaunted 90s defense (despite never really having legitimate big man anchors) was built off Jordan's defensive style. I recall many games where the Bulls would press and trap so effectively that the opposing team had trouble even advancing the ball past half-court.

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

And Randy Brown and Scott Burrell. Brown was well regarded within the role of defensive specialist (though not much else) and Burrell, though oft injured (in part because of his all-out style), was a productive and effective defender.

And Harper during the second 3-peat. I remember games when the Bulls were trailing big at half, only to pull out the press and/or half court trap and utterly destroy the other team's confidence.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

And Randy Brown and Scott Burrell. Brown was well regarded within the role of defensive specialist (though not much else) and Burrell, though oft injured (in part because of his all-out style), was a productive and effective defender.

And Harper during the second 3-peat. I remember games when the Bulls were trailing big at half, only to pull out the press and/or half court trap and utterly destroy the other team's confidence.

Looking at the 1998 Bulls from a statistical defensive perspective we can see they were better defensively with Pippen and/or Jordan on the bench. Every player who played meaningful minutes in the rotation (Over 600) had a positive DBPM.

[Djoker]

MJ gets overrated as a defender when people compare his impact to elite defensive bigs like Hakeem and Robinson. Of course he can't touch those guys. No perimeter player can complete with a big who changes dozens of shots in the paint. However among perimeter defenders, MJ is definitely among the best if not the outright best ever. How much impact such a perimeter player can have on a basketball team...? Probably not that much which is I think the angle of Ben Taylor's analysis. His point is definitely not to paint MJ as "not a great" defender. That's not the vibe I got from it at least.

[ShotCreator]

Despite all his flaws as a defender, I can only think one defender at the shooting guard position all-time I MIGHT take over him and that is Sidney Moncrief (not sure if Tony Allen had the longevity). I think Jordan was terrfic on-ball and offered good rim protection for a 2 guard. The blown rotations suck but I think more times than not he was successful with his gambles. Also it cannot be stressed enought that Jordan might've had the highest motor of any superstar ever. That in itself helped him correct some mistakes.

I don't think people really know HOW to look at defense. Jordan's incredible activity on defense far outweighs any mistakes he might have made. His lateral quickness was insane, he was everywhere creating turnovers and he was a legitimate shotblocker.

I watched an old Knicks game the other day and he stripped someone on the last 3 possessions of regulation to send it to overtime.

From 89-91 Jordan didn’t even average a block per game. Despite an insane minutes load. Current Harden is just as good at blocking shots.

Jordan was not a rim protector, a lockdown defender, or sound post defender, or a sound help defender.

Jordan literally sold his lateral quickness out for swipe down attempts. There is no point to quick feet if you intentionally give up ground, and right to the middle of the lane and restricted area no less. You literally can’t play worse defense than that.

I’m amazed his foul rate wasn’t higher playing like this. He wasn’t even just gambling and reaching, he was putting his body in positions refs constantly punish you for regardless of whether you touch a guy or not.


His defense in his peak give me massive Wade and peak Ibaka vibes.

2012 Ibaka had I think the GOAT block rate on record.

-1.3 ORAPM, and 1.05 DRAPM.

Ibaka, chasing blocks was barely a solid defender. His defensive value exploded the next couple seasons with smarter play.

And really this is dignifying an absolute fallacy of basketball and especially NBA basketball.

There is absolutely no such thing as elite high risk, high reward defense. Defense isn’t rewarding. It’s hard, it’s a lot of extra efforts, it’s not falling for pump fakes, ever. It’s making the right rotation at the right time dozens of times a game, communicating intelligently, boxing out, AND STILL getting lit up in half the games you play, even if you’re a good defensive team.

The idea that you can take from offense, like offense can exploit defense is absurd. Even looking at it practically, a few steals and deflections a game while constantly overplaying dozens of possessions a game. Basketball is the highest scoring sport by far because offense is by far easier than defense.

Which is to say margin for error is really slim.

This is a fundamentals discussion at this point because Jordan lacked fundamentals and discipline big time on defense. Which is kinda shocking to me considering the culture he established and the coaching he had.

I could see Jordan in his late 90’s being a better defender than his athletic peak simply because he had to slow down and play smarter and couldn’t get away with playing the defensive equivalent of low efficiency volume scoring.

[WestGOAT]

Was quite interesting to note that Ben Taylor claims Jordan gambled a bit too much on defence.

This is actually congruent with some analyses I recently did to see how well the number of steals of a player associates with a team's defensive performance in the playoffs, this is Kawhi:


While there is considerable variation in his team's defensive performance, you do see a clear trend that for every Kawhi steal, his team performed better defensively, to be precise: -1.86 points on average.

Summary:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

    STL  Games  Tm_dDRtg
0  0.0     24      -1.2
1  1.0     36      -3.1
2  2.0     33      -8.7
3  3.0     16      -4.4
4  4.0      9     -11.3
5  5.0      5     -10.9
6  6.0      1      -1.3

Whereas for Jordan the trend is also there, but less prominent:

Jordan Summary:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

   STL  Games  Tm_dDRtg
0  0.0     25      -1.3
1  1.0     42      -3.3
2  2.0     53      -4.5
3  3.0     24      -4.4
4  4.0     23      -3.9
5  5.0      8      -7.2
6  6.0      4      -6.2

This tells me that Kawhi's steals were more valuable than Jordan's, or at the least associates better with his team's defence in the playoffs.

[Lost92Bricks]

From 89-91 Jordan didn’t even average a block per game. Despite an insane minutes load. Current Harden is just as good at blocking shots.

Jordan was not a rim protector, a lockdown defender, or sound post defender, or a sound help defender.

Jordan literally sold his lateral quickness out for swipe down attempts. There is no point to quick feet if you intentionally give up ground, and right to the middle of the lane and restricted area no less. You literally can’t play worse defense than that.

I’m amazed his foul rate wasn’t higher playing like this. He wasn’t even just gambling and reaching, he was putting his body in positions refs constantly punish you for regardless of whether you touch a guy or not.


His defense in his peak give me massive Wade and peak Ibaka vibes.

2012 Ibaka had I think the GOAT block rate on record.

-1.3 ORAPM, and 1.05 DRAPM.

Ibaka, chasing blocks was barely a solid defender. His defensive value exploded the next couple seasons with smarter play.

And really this is dignifying an absolute fallacy of basketball and especially NBA basketball.

There is absolutely no such thing as elite high risk, high reward defense. Defense isn’t rewarding. It’s hard, it’s a lot of extra efforts, it’s not falling for pump fakes, ever. It’s making the right rotation at the right time dozens of times a game, communicating intelligently, boxing out, AND STILL getting lit up in half the games you play, even if you’re a good defensive team.

The idea that you can take from offense, like offense can exploit defense is absurd. Even looking at it practically, a few steals and deflections a game while constantly overplaying dozens of possessions a game. Basketball is the highest scoring sport by far because offense is by far easier than defense.

Which is to say margin for error is really slim.

This is a fundamentals discussion at this point because Jordan lacked fundamentals and discipline big time on defense. Which is kinda shocking to me considering the culture he established and the coaching he had.

I could see Jordan in his late 90’s being a better defender than his athletic peak simply because he had to slow down and play smarter and couldn’t get away with playing the defensive equivalent of low efficiency volume scoring.

Maybe the way you're looking at defense is flawed? You don't have to be the most fundamentally sound to be effective.

Especially when you have that level of athleticism and activity. Getting steals, drawing offensive fouls, contesting shots, blocking shots, full court trapping, double teaming, playing good isolation defense.

[freethedevil]

Yeah Elgees defensive evaluation of Mj doesnt make that much sense. Underrates him quite a bit IMO

Even in 98 Scottie missed half the season and they were still a top 3 defense despite guys like Kerr and Kukoc not being good defenders. They had Harper, Rodman and a couple good defensive role playing bigs but considering Scotties rep on that end and how Elgee paints his defense they shouldve seen a much bigger dropoff. And this was mid-30yo Mj.

The 98 Bulls were the #1 defense in the league without either Jordan or Pippen on court. People only ever talk about his triangle offense but Phil Jackson teams have often outperformed their talent on the defensive end as well.

Yeah there seems to a be a blatant disconnect here with perception and reality when we look at team results.

Jordan wins dpoy in 88 on the 3rd best defense in the league. Next season oakley leaves and they're 11th. Next season they're 19th. Then in 91, wth Jordan getting worse at basically everything defensively(slower, less atheltic, less rim protection, more breakdowns), they become the best defense in the league which coinices with...checks notes....Pippen and Rodman(but mostly Pippen) Entering their prime. Jordan leaves in 93 and their defense is...basically unaffected.

Looking at more induvidual data, Ben gives jordan #1 in backpicks bpm(which he says does the worst job of his preferred stats defensively), is second in dpipm, and then when he and his team hardtrack jordan's playoff games to come with apm specifcally citing that "its hard to account for defense" as justificaton, Jordan ends up coming...9th.

Quick comparison with someone people insist jordan is close to or better than defensively, the 09 cavs withotu lebron are the 18th best defense in the league, with him they ae 3rd. He has a dpipm of +3.3 which is twice as close to dwight howard as it is to say..2020 ben simmons.

Lebron's drapm over the playoffs is higher than kawhi leonard's despite playing vastly longer. Remember guys, averages go down as players play longer.

Maybe the guy who can make dwight second guess about trying things at the rim and shut down derrick rose while committing less defensive errors is better at defense....