The "Rosasian Roster" in 2020

[jpatrick]

To be fair, Achiuwa is playing center for the Heat, not PF. He and Bam never share the court together. Beyond that, I 100% agree with you. He’d be such a good backup center for the Wolves with possibility of playing PF down the road if he develops perimeter skills. He’s so tough, physical, and athletic. And more than anything, he plays really hard.

With Towns out, I think he’d be a double double machine playing center with starter minutes.

That said, hard to be too upset about getting two assets for that pick. I’m clearly not as high on McDaniel as the rest of the board but he is a positive asset.

[Neeva]

Rubio, McDaniels, Bolmaro >>JJ, Achiuwa(17), Oturu(33)

[Mamba4Goat]

Achiuwa would be nice, but limiting. The idea behind McDaniels is a home run swing. Think big picture instead of small picture. Kinda like dumping Culver this offseason before finding what he had this season. Bolmaro also sounds like an interesting flier too.

[Jedzz]

Achiuwa would be nice, but limiting. The idea behind McDaniels is a home run swing. Think big picture instead of small picture. Kinda like dumping Culver this offseason before finding what he had this season. Bolmaro also sounds like an interesting flier too.

Are you suggesting that Culver is untradeable now that he's finally showing some ability to play? If anything, now he might finally be tradeable, maybe. I always love how so many only seem to think our never playing or horribly performing players will be desired by other teams in trades.

[wolfen]

To be fair, Achiuwa is playing center for the Heat, not PF. He and Bam never share the court together. Beyond that, I 100% agree with you. He’d be such a good backup center for the Wolves with possibility of playing PF down the road if he develops perimeter skills. He’s so tough, physical, and athletic. And more than anything, he plays really hard.

With Towns out, I think he’d be a double double machine playing center with starter minutes.

That said, hard to be too upset about getting two assets for that pick. I’m clearly not as high on McDaniel as the rest of the board but he is a positive asset.

That is true, he is playing mostly C for the Heat. Bam is so good defensively, for their team it is likely the best thing, as they can trot out Jimmy Butler at PF, who is also excellent defensively and has good size and strength. Let's look at every team's starting C and PF, followed by remaining starters in parentheses (wolves first):

MIN - Towns - Layman (Okogie, Beasley, Russel)

ATL - Capella - Collins (Hunter, Reddish, Young)
BOS - Theiss - Tatum (Smart, Brown, Walker)
BKN - Jordan - Durant (Harris, LaVert, Irving)
CHA - Zellar - Washington (Hayward, Rozier, Graham)
CHI - Carter - Markannen (Williams, Lavine, White)
CLE - Drummond - Love (Okoro, Sexton, Garland)
DAL - Powell - Porzingis (Hardaway, Richardson, Doncic)
DEN - Jokic - Millsap (Porter, Harris, Murray)
DET - Plumlee - Griffin (Grant, wright, Hayes)
GS - Wiseman - Green (Wigs, Oubre, Curry)
HOU - Wood - Tucker (House, Harden, Wall)
IND - Turner - Sabonis (Warren, Oladipo, Brogdon)
LAC - Ibaka - Leonard (Batum, George, Beverly)
LAL - Gasol - Davis (KCP, Schroder, Lebron)
MEM - Valanciunas - Jackson Jr (Brooks, Allen, Morant)
MIA - Bam - Butler (Robinson, Herro, X)
MLW - Lopez - Giannis (Middleton, Divo, Jrue)
NO - Adams - Zion (Ingram, Bledsoe, Ball)
NYK - Robinson - Randle (Knox, Barett, Payton)
OKC - Horford - Bazely (Dort, Hill, SGA)
ORL - Vucevic - Gordon (Bacon, Fournier, Fultz)
PHI - Embid - Harris (Green, Curry, Simmons)
PHO - Ayton - Crowder (Bridges, Booker, Paul)
POR - Nurk - Cov (Jones Jr, McCollum, Lillard)
SAC - Whiteside - Bagley (Barnes, Hield, Fox)
SAS - Poetl - Aldrich (DeRozan, White, Murray)
TOR - Baynes - Siakam (Anunoby, VanVleet, Lowry)
UTA - Gobert - O'Neale (Bogo, Mitchell, Conley)
WAS - Bryant - Hachimura (Avdija, Beal, Russ)

You could argue that right now at this point in time, these teams would be better with Achiuwa starting at PF:

MIN, CHA, CHI, CLE, DEN, NYK, OKC, UTA, WAS

If your starting C is average at best on defense, you've GOT to have an average or better defender starting at PF next to him or you've got almost no chance. Yes, PA is currently limited on the offensive side, but Towns more than makes up for that with his incredible offense. PA plays so hard, rebounds like crazy, and is so quick on his feet. He can defend multiple positions with his size and athletic gifts and seems to be accepting his role, which is huge.

A future lineup of KAT / PA / Culver / AE / D-Lo has a good chance of being average or better on defense (probably not until next year however) while remaining top 5-10 on the offensive side of the ball. Again, would have been nice...

[wolfen]

Achiuwa would be nice, but limiting. The idea behind McDaniels is a home run swing. Think big picture instead of small picture. Kinda like dumping Culver this offseason before finding what he had this season. Bolmaro also sounds like an interesting flier too.

McDaniels:
Ceiling - A Durant-Lite style of player (of course not as GOOD as KD, just similar traits)
Floor - G-league vet

Achiuwa:
Ceiling - Siakam-Lite style of player (again, not as good, similar style/traits, physical attributes)
Floor - 10 year NBA bench rotational player who plays hard, defends, rebounds

I do like the McDaniels pick, and I hope he develops into a good player. But our bed has been made having KAT and D-Lo on the squad and you do whatever you can during this window with those players to complement them and fill in the holes. Sure, McDaniels could turn out to be a really good player, and if that would be the case, it would likely be because he has really good offensive potential. But even if he puts on another 15 pounds over the next couple years, starting him at PF wouldn't fix anything on the defensive side of the ball, as that will never be his strength. Could he become average or better on that side of the floor? Yes, but much more likely as a SF. To me, that is what intrigues me most about McDaniels. Starting SF potential down the road with serious length, but limited strength, certainly not "starting PF strength".

Compare the ceiling of PA with McDaniels. You're looking at Pascal Siakam if he reaches his ceiling. But even if he doesn't develop much more game than he has now, his floor remains much higher than McDaniels, and even playing at that level, he would fill in the holes big time next to KAT.

[urinesane]

Achiuwa would be nice, but limiting. The idea behind McDaniels is a home run swing. Think big picture instead of small picture. Kinda like dumping Culver this offseason before finding what he had this season. Bolmaro also sounds like an interesting flier too.

Are you suggesting that Culver is untradeable now that he's finally showing some ability to play? If anything, now he might finally be tradeable, maybe. I always love how so many only seem to think our never playing or horribly performing players will be desired by other teams in trades.

What kind of loser mentality do you have that the instant a player is showing the possibility of living up to their potential you want to trade them?

We finally see some development out of a young player and you just think of what you can sell them for?

Same with Ant, he looks legit like a #1 pick in his first three games and your mouth starts watering to trade him for Rudy Gobert?

Again, you're fired. You should never be the GM of an NBA team and should stick to arguing with people and acting crusty

[wolfen]

Really starting to wonder about the Rosas / Saunders pairing. And frankly about Vanterpool as well.

Rosas Concerns
-Doesn't value acquiring players (draft, free agency, trade) with real physicality (Edwards the exception).
-Is too hooked on positionless basketball and making sure every player on the team can shoot 3's, or potentially can shoot 3's (Ed Davis the exception). RHJ, what the h@ll??
-Doesn't value low post scoring. It's not en vogue but it's also not dead.
-Too hooked on the "rocket mentality".

Saunders Concerns
-He just appears too young and chummy to hold players accountable.
-Like his father, who ruined Wiggins, he's allowing Edwards to grow into a chucker.
-Flip never forced Wigs to attack the rim, Ryan is doing the same with Edwards.
-Flip never engrained ANY passing / play-making into Wigs, Ryan is doing the same with Edwards. AE has MASSIVE potential to play in the LeBron style of using his gifts to set other guys up, but RS is just letting him go 1 on 1 and chuck and not focus on setting up others.
-In & Out passing: Other teams feed the post, but not just for the post man to score, so the D collapses and the post man flips it back out to the perimeter for an open shot, a drive to the hoop, etc. We don't do this much and frankly when KAT does get fed, I'm not a fan of his crab-dribbling into tough shots. And frankly, he ends up going to the ground quite a bit going through contact, which as we have seen, doesn't bode well to his health.

Vanterpool Concerns
-He's supposedly a defensive genius? Yes, we're limited roster-wise defensively but both this year and last year I don't see anything that screams out defensive genius or guru.

Debbie Downer today, I know, but I gotta get it off my chest...

[Dewey]

Really starting to wonder about the Rosas / Saunders pairing. And frankly about Vanterpool as well.

Rosas Concerns
-Doesn't value acquiring players (draft, free agency, trade) with real physicality (Edwards the exception).
-Is too hooked on positionless basketball and making sure every player on the team can shoot 3's, or potentially can shoot 3's (Ed Davis the exception). RHJ, what the h@ll??
-Doesn't value low post scoring. It's not en vogue but it's also not dead.
-Too hooked on the "rocket mentality".

Saunders Concerns
-He just appears too young and chummy to hold players accountable.
-Like his father, who ruined Wiggins, he's allowing Edwards to grow into a chucker.
-Flip never forced Wigs to attack the rim, Ryan is doing the same with Edwards.
-Flip never engrained ANY passing / play-making into Wigs, Ryan is doing the same with Edwards. AE has MASSIVE potential to play in the LeBron style of using his gifts to set other guys up, but RS is just letting him go 1 on 1 and chuck and not focus on setting up others.
-In & Out passing: Other teams feed the post, but not just for the post man to score, so the D collapses and the post man flips it back out to the perimeter for an open shot, a drive to the hoop, etc. We don't do this much and frankly when KAT does get fed, I'm not a fan of his crab-dribbling into tough shots. And frankly, he ends up going to the ground quite a bit going through contact, which as we have seen, doesn't bode well to his health.

Vanterpool Concerns
-He's supposedly a defensive genius? Yes, we're limited roster-wise defensively but both this year and last year I don't see anything that screams out defensive genius or guru.

Debbie Downer today, I know, but I gotta get it off my chest...

These accountability issues will not change until they establish leadership - Coaches AND Players both. There's no "earn or burn" mentallity whatsoever.

[Magoose]

When culvers shot isnt falling at least he rebounds, defends and assists, Beasley in the other hand becomes kind of useless.

Copied the quote from the Clippers game thread.

This is exactly the issue: We have too many players, that can impact the game positively for us in only one way:

- Beasley (3 Pt Shooting)
- DLo (Shooting)
- Layman (Shooting? Athleticism?)
- Juancho (FaceUp Game?)
- Okogie (Defense, Hustle)
- Naz (3 Pt Shooting?)

Second issue: Too many players with mediocre or poor BBIQ:

- Beasley
- DLo
- Ant (? Jury's still out)
- Juancho
- Okogie

The biggest problem is that we are spending almost 50 million p.a. on three of those players. All of which were brought in by Rosas.If you're looking for one-dimensional specialists you better be sure they are on reasonable contracts. This is how poorly constructed the roster is right now.
At least we have our 1st round draft pick next year... oh wait a sec.

Not sure I like the strategy up to this point.

[Jedzz]

To be fair, Achiuwa is playing center for the Heat, not PF. He and Bam never share the court together. Beyond that, I 100% agree with you. He’d be such a good backup center for the Wolves with possibility of playing PF down the road if he develops perimeter skills. He’s so tough, physical, and athletic. And more than anything, he plays really hard.

With Towns out, I think he’d be a double double machine playing center with starter minutes.

That said, hard to be too upset about getting two assets for that pick. I’m clearly not as high on McDaniel as the rest of the board but he is a positive asset.

That is true, he is playing mostly C for the Heat. Bam is so good defensively, for their team it is likely the best thing, as they can trot out Jimmy Butler at PF, who is also excellent defensively and has good size and strength. Let's look at every team's starting C and PF, followed by remaining starters in parentheses (wolves first):

MIN - Towns - Layman (Okogie, Beasley, Russel)

ATL - Capella - Collins (Hunter, Reddish, Young)
BOS - Theiss - Tatum (Smart, Brown, Walker)
BKN - Jordan - Durant (Harris, LaVert, Irving)
CHA - Zellar - Washington (Hayward, Rozier, Graham)
CHI - Carter - Markannen (Williams, Lavine, White)
CLE - Drummond - Love (Okoro, Sexton, Garland)
DAL - Powell - Porzingis (Hardaway, Richardson, Doncic)
DEN - Jokic - Millsap (Porter, Harris, Murray)
DET - Plumlee - Griffin (Grant, wright, Hayes)
GS - Wiseman - Green (Wigs, Oubre, Curry)
HOU - Wood - Tucker (House, Harden, Wall)
IND - Turner - Sabonis (Warren, Oladipo, Brogdon)
LAC - Ibaka - Leonard (Batum, George, Beverly)
LAL - Gasol - Davis (KCP, Schroder, Lebron)
MEM - Valanciunas - Jackson Jr (Brooks, Allen, Morant)
MIA - Bam - Butler (Robinson, Herro, X)
MLW - Lopez - Giannis (Middleton, Divo, Jrue)
NO - Adams - Zion (Ingram, Bledsoe, Ball)
NYK - Robinson - Randle (Knox, Barett, Payton)
OKC - Horford - Bazely (Dort, Hill, SGA)
ORL - Vucevic - Gordon (Bacon, Fournier, Fultz)
PHI - Embid - Harris (Green, Curry, Simmons)
PHO - Ayton - Crowder (Bridges, Booker, Paul)
POR - Nurk - Cov (Jones Jr, McCollum, Lillard)
SAC - Whiteside - Bagley (Barnes, Hield, Fox)
SAS - Poetl - Aldrich (DeRozan, White, Murray)
TOR - Baynes - Siakam (Anunoby, VanVleet, Lowry)
UTA - Gobert - O'Neale (Bogo, Mitchell, Conley)
WAS - Bryant - Hachimura (Avdija, Beal, Russ)

You could argue that right now at this point in time, these teams would be better with Achiuwa starting at PF:

MIN, CHA, CHI, CLE, DEN, NYK, OKC, UTA, WAS

If your starting C is average at best on defense, you've GOT to have an average or better defender starting at PF next to him or you've got almost no chance. Yes, PA is currently limited on the offensive side, but Towns more than makes up for that with his incredible offense. PA plays so hard, rebounds like crazy, and is so quick on his feet. He can defend multiple positions with his size and athletic gifts and seems to be accepting his role, which is huge.

A future lineup of KAT / PA / Culver / AE / D-Lo has a good chance of being average or better on defense (probably not until next year however) while remaining top 5-10 on the offensive side of the ball. Again, would have been nice...

I don't know about this talk about Butler being a PF. Achiuwa is 6-8 and Miami had like 8 players that size last year all playing various 2,3,4,5 roles. I think he's going to be just a raplcement for one of their losses like Crowder or whoever. Where ever he fits right now is just a right now thing. And if Butler has played PF, it's temporary.

Gawd I hate Rosas now for bringing this small ball mindset to everything.

[Jedzz]

Achiuwa would be nice, but limiting. The idea behind McDaniels is a home run swing. Think big picture instead of small picture. Kinda like dumping Culver this offseason before finding what he had this season. Bolmaro also sounds like an interesting flier too.

Are you suggesting that Culver is untradeable now that he's finally showing some ability to play? If anything, now he might finally be tradeable, maybe. I always love how so many only seem to think our never playing or horribly performing players will be desired by other teams in trades.

What kind of loser mentality do you have that the instant a player is showing the possibility of living up to their potential you want to trade them?

We finally see some development out of a young player and you just think of what you can sell them for?

Same with Ant, he looks legit like a #1 pick in his first three games and your mouth starts watering to trade him for Rudy Gobert?

Again, you're fired. You should never be the GM of an NBA team and should stick to arguing with people and acting crusty

Because Wolves still have too many guards and wannabe combo guards, unbalanced roster, not enough real shooters -not these slowly developing ones, not enough PF sized talents that can play at all. The Wolves just lost four in a row as is typical.


Culver's last four games now: 104 minutes and you get this.
14 of 38 FG (37%) 1-12 3FG (8%) 3 of 6 FT (50% - all in Den game) His rebounding is really all that's left now.

Anything wrong with SELL HIGH? I don't know where your Donald-ish "you're fired" fun is coming from but you can go sit back down and you can take Rosas with you.

[Dewey]

Vanderbilt and McDaniel ... here’s a couple longer lean athletic players that need the experience. When Layman and Hernangomez continue to underperform as we lose by 20, let’em have some court time.

McL is our mor most consistent PG and seeing squat.

Things are strange

[Killboard]

I think they will use Beasley as a trade chip to get a PF later this season, likely making Edwards a starter after that.
Currently the best PF is Okogie and they could get away with that if KAT is out there, but he isn't.

[Klomp]

I think they will use Beasley as a trade chip to get a PF later this season, likely making Edwards a starter after that.
Currently the best PF is Okogie and they could get away with that if KAT is out there, but he isn't.

This is my belief as well. I don't think that Beasley's price-point is a fluke.

[minimus]

I think they will use Beasley as a trade chip to get a PF later this season, likely making Edwards a starter after that.
Currently the best PF is Okogie and they could get away with that if KAT is out there, but he isn't.

This is my belief as well. I don't think that Beasley's price-point is a fluke.

No... We finally have a high-energy SG, who can shoot from 3pt...

[Killboard]

I think they will use Beasley as a trade chip to get a PF later this season, likely making Edwards a starter after that.
Currently the best PF is Okogie and they could get away with that if KAT is out there, but he isn't.

This is my belief as well. I don't think that Beasley's price-point is a fluke.

No... We finally have a high-energy SG, who can shoot from 3pt...

Yeap, and I really like him, don't get me wrong. But that also make him valuable for a lot of teams. Dlo and Beasley isn't a good pair defensively, and Dlo (for good or bad) isn't going anywhere. If the Wolves can't get a haul for Edwards, Beasley is the other player who they could sell high. Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position, which would round up the roster a lot better.

[Jedzz]

This is my belief as well. I don't think that Beasley's price-point is a fluke.

No... We finally have a high-energy SG, who can shoot from 3pt...

Yeap, and I really like him, don't get me wrong. But that also make him valuable for a lot of teams. Dlo and Beasley isn't a good pair defensively, and Dlo (for good or bad) isn't going anywhere. If the Wolves can't get a haul for Edwards, Beasley is the other player who they could sell high. Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position, which would round up the roster a lot better.

The team doesn't have to have 5 good defenders. But it can't be without a number of good shooters. It can't even compete without a couple high end shooters. We don't have enough now and I see people talking about trading dlo and beasley. Any idea what the rest of the team shot on 3s against denver? 16% and that includes Culver/Edwards. Dlo shot 57% and Beasley shot 60%. Trading Beasley for yet another 32% or worse shooter will only make the team worse.

The team also doesn't have to trade for a star PF to make this work. They can find usable players all over the place. They can start by giving their own developing players a real shot since the team is losing every game anyway. if those don't work, bring in some 10day options from the players currentlty without a Gleague or roster spot anywhere right now. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone hungry that will give you effort and size and knows how to play basketball. Take a walk to a court in Cali and take some phone numbers if you are stumped. I'm sick of watching these guys that won't give much efforts or play with any strength. We saw Juancho go at the rim very strongly once yesterday. Once in 6 games now, and was that all he was gonig to offer offensively yesterday? Go right back to that well 5 more times until someone stops him. But can't if he's standing around or the team is busy developing guards.

[Killboard]

No... We finally have a high-energy SG, who can shoot from 3pt...

Yeap, and I really like him, don't get me wrong. But that also make him valuable for a lot of teams. Dlo and Beasley isn't a good pair defensively, and Dlo (for good or bad) isn't going anywhere. If the Wolves can't get a haul for Edwards, Beasley is the other player who they could sell high. Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position, which would round up the roster a lot better.

The team doesn't have to have 5 good defenders. But it can't be without a number of good shooters. It can't even compete without a couple high end shooters. We don't have enough now and I see people talking about trading dlo and beasley. Any idea what the rest of the team shot on 3s against denver? 16% and that includes Culver/Edwards. Dlo shot 57% and Beasley shot 60%. Trading Beasley for yet another 32% or worse shooter will only make the team worse.

Yes, thats why I said:

Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position

The team also doesn't have to trade for a star PF to make this work. They can find usable players all over the place. They can start by giving their own developing players a real shot since the team is losing every game anyway. if those don't work, bring in some 10day options from the players currentlty without a Gleague or roster spot anywhere right now. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone hungry that will give you effort and size and knows how to play basketball. Take a walk to a court in Cali and take some phone numbers if you are stumped. I'm sick of watching these guys that won't give much efforts or play with any strength. We saw Juancho go at the rim very strongly once yesterday. Once in 6 games now, and was that all he was gonig to offer offensively yesterday? Go right back to that well 5 more times until someone stops him. But can't if he's standing around or the team is busy developing guards.

Thing is that Juancho, playing bad and all, give lanes to Edwards and Culver to drive. There is a reason why the athletically gifted and energetic RHJ still without team, and isn't because 30 front offices don't know what they are doing. You put him or Vandebilt in Juancho spot, along Naz or Ed Davis, and you make Edwards and Culver go against a brick wall in the paint.

[Jedzz]

Yeap, and I really like him, don't get me wrong. But that also make him valuable for a lot of teams. Dlo and Beasley isn't a good pair defensively, and Dlo (for good or bad) isn't going anywhere. If the Wolves can't get a haul for Edwards, Beasley is the other player who they could sell high. Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position, which would round up the roster a lot better.

The team doesn't have to have 5 good defenders. But it can't be without a number of good shooters. It can't even compete without a couple high end shooters. We don't have enough now and I see people talking about trading dlo and beasley. Any idea what the rest of the team shot on 3s against denver? 16% and that includes Culver/Edwards. Dlo shot 57% and Beasley shot 60%. Trading Beasley for yet another 32% or worse shooter will only make the team worse.

Yes, thats why I said:

Ideally the forward they would get is also a high energy guy who can shoot above average for his position

The team also doesn't have to trade for a star PF to make this work. They can find usable players all over the place. They can start by giving their own developing players a real shot since the team is losing every game anyway. if those don't work, bring in some 10day options from the players currentlty without a Gleague or roster spot anywhere right now. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone hungry that will give you effort and size and knows how to play basketball. Take a walk to a court in Cali and take some phone numbers if you are stumped. I'm sick of watching these guys that won't give much efforts or play with any strength. We saw Juancho go at the rim very strongly once yesterday. Once in 6 games now, and was that all he was gonig to offer offensively yesterday? Go right back to that well 5 more times until someone stops him. But can't if he's standing around or the team is busy developing guards.

Thing is that Juancho, playing bad and all, give lanes to Edwards and Culver to drive. There is a reason why the athletically gifted and energetic RHJ still without team, and isn't because 30 front offices don't know what they are doing. You put him or Vandebilt in Juancho spot, along Naz or Ed Davis, and you make Edwards and Culver go against a brick wall in the paint.

First just want to say, the other 29 teams don't have a roster like this one. Houston no longer even resembles what Rosas was aiming at.

So you are saying the PF has to be able to shoot to draw defender out of the paint, right? Juancho isn't the only player that can be found to do that if he's struggling, and you might get back more then just that. Besides I can count how often we are getting Edwards and Culver to charge into the paint on one hand. Ryan apparently doesn't ask them to. Culver is already starting to immitate Wiggins moves, even if it looks better. None of these guys are hitting that paint with any intent of finishing at the rim much or going through any defenders. Edwards = 1, Juancho =1 in Denver game. That's with Juancho playing. If once a game is the number, I guess we can do without. But there are players out there available that can shoot 3s, can pass, can defend with good size and can move well. I've been pushing a name, there are more.