Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[nate33]

No, Nat. We don't want Kelly Oubre, Jr. He's a terrible player.

I remember ranting about Bobby Portis should have been the pick as opposed to Oubre plus a round two.

He’s looking pretty good surrounded by really good player in Milwaukee. Just like Markieff the guy is a good situational player.

Kelly Oubre...pif, he and Otto and mobile Gortat were very decent when Wittman played them together.

Portis is still trash, don't let the box scores fool you.

Still doesn't do anything that contributes to winning basketball, much like the lesser of the Morris twins.

Given the choice between the three I'd go with Oubre since he's the only one out of the bunch you can expect to defend.

Oubre has unquestionably been better than Portis over the last 3 years. A 3-game cold streak doesn't change that.

[NatP4]

Ish Smith+Mo Wagner+2021 2nd round pick for Richaun Holmes.

[queridiculo]

Ish Smith+Mo Wagner+2021 2nd round pick for Richaun Holmes.

Richaun Holmes is whom the Wizards should have spent the Ish Smith money on in the first place.

Holmes is their starter and those bird rights are going to be very valuable for a team over the cap heading into next year.

The Kings also have a ton of 2021 2nd rounders, so they're not going to really see the appeal here.

Probably not a popular proposal around here, but there's some redundancy at the position for the Wizards and I'd try to consolidate Troy Brown as an asset to add Holmes.

out: Troy Brown Jr. + Jerome Robinson
in: Richaun Holmes + Justin James + 2021 2nd round pick

The Wizards don't see Brown as a capable guard, Avdija is the future at SF and Bonga is a better fit platooning both forward spots which leaves TBJ as the odd man out.

Washington addresses their gaping hole at PF and adds a player that can handle the center position in spot duty.

Holmes adds a physical edge that the team is currently lacking.

[nate33]

Ish Smith+Mo Wagner+2021 2nd round pick for Richaun Holmes.

Richaun Holmes is whom the Wizards should have spent the Ish Smith money on in the first place.

Holmes is their starter and those bird rights are going to be very valuable for a team over the cap heading into next year.

The Kings also have a ton of 2021 2nd rounders, so they're not going to really see the appeal here.

Probably not a popular proposal around here, but there's some redundancy at the position for the Wizards and I'd try to consolidate Troy Brown as an asset to add Holmes.

out: Troy Brown Jr. + Jerome Robinson
in: Richaun Holmes + Justin James + 2021 2nd round pick

The Wizards don't see Brown as a capable guard, Avdija is the future at SF and Bonga is a better fit platooning both forward spots which leaves TBJ as the odd man out.

Washington addresses their gaping hole at PF and adds a player that can handle the center position in spot duty.

Holmes adds a physical edge that the team is currently lacking.

I'm not interested in trading real assets (Mo, Troy Brown, the 2nd round pick) for an expiring contract. If we want Holmes, we can try and sign him with the MLE in the summer.

And if we had wanted to invest the money in a player like Holmes for the long term, we would have signed Tristan Thompson to a multi-year deal instead of Lopez on a 1-year deal.

I also don't see the rationale for Sacramento.

[pcbothwel]

Kings swap: Holmes, Haliburton, Bagley, 2021 1st for Beal.

Am I asking for too little value here? Too much?

538 projection would put the Kings pick around 10th:
10th overall pick 2021, Holmes, Haliburton, Bagley.

Wiz don't get enough value imo, but at the same time it's an acknowledgement of the risk the Kings take in potentially having Beal walk on them. I considered asking for Hield, but preferred the cap space. There's a good chance Bagley is worthless. A *lot* rests on Haliburton turning out to be something long term.

I dunno.

Sacramento wouldn't do it.

Beal is somewhat redundant with Fox and Hield. If they go all in, they're going to want a big. Also, I don't think a non-contender like Sacramento makes a deal for Beal because they'd have the same concerns that we have about him leaving in free agency.

Maybe... but I would not do it either.

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 2st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

[nate33]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 1st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

I like it! Particularly if we wait until the trade deadline and it's a sure thing that Golden State will miss the playoffs again.

I'd be willing to throw in Bertans to sweeten the pot if one of those 2021 lotto picks looks like it'll be in the top 5.

[queridiculo]

I'm not interested in trading real assets (Mo, Troy Brown, the 2nd round pick) for an expiring contract. If we want Holmes, we can try and sign him with the MLE in the summer.

And if we had wanted to invest the money in a player like Holmes for the long term, we would have signed Tristan Thompson to a multi-year deal instead of Lopez on a 1-year deal.

I also don't see the rationale for Sacramento.

Washington declined Wagner's team option, they don't see him as an asset. TBJ's option is a half hearted effort to stretch the value of their lottery pick, he has no role with the team going forward.

There's exactly one reason why the Wizards didn't make a hard play for Thompson, the Wizards had no interest to be a luxury tax team this year.

[pcbothwel]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 1st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

I like it! Particularly if we wait until the trade deadline and it's a sure thing that Golden State will miss the playoffs again.

I'd be willing to throw in Bertans to sweeten the pot if one of those 2021 lotto picks looks like it'll be in the top 5.

No... This trade would happen next summer. Im not letting GSW decrease the value of the value of the pick will simultaneously killing our playoff run.
It's a balance. whatever team Beal is on gets better and the other worse. Assuming its a near wash in value... Im picking the scenario where we actually do something this year.
Again, GSW are the ones in need. They are bleeding money with all their stars hurt and past their prime. They need to make a move and there isnt a single player that is more productive and fits better than Beal while also taking on Wiggins (And giving them a great role player like Bryant)...

[TGW]

I'm down for that Warriors trade all day everyday. After that move, I'm trying to dump Westbrook on the Knicks or Clippers.

[nate33]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 1st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

I like it! Particularly if we wait until the trade deadline and it's a sure thing that Golden State will miss the playoffs again.

I'd be willing to throw in Bertans to sweeten the pot if one of those 2021 lotto picks looks like it'll be in the top 5.

No... This trade would happen next summer. Im not letting GSW decrease the value of the value of the pick will simultaneously killing our playoff run.
It's a balance. whatever team Beal is on gets better and the other worse. Assuming its a near wash in value... Im picking the scenario where we actually do something this year.
Again, GSW are the ones in need. They are bleeding money with all their stars hurt and past their prime. They need to make a move and there isnt a single player that is more productive and fits better than Beal while also taking on Wiggins (And giving them a great role player like Bryant)...

Sure. I'd do it in the summer too - as long as one of those picks was fairly high in the lottery. I don't know if I'd do it for the #12 and #14 pick.

[Dat2U]

I'm not interested in trading real assets (Mo, Troy Brown, the 2nd round pick) for an expiring contract. If we want Holmes, we can try and sign him with the MLE in the summer.

And if we had wanted to invest the money in a player like Holmes for the long term, we would have signed Tristan Thompson to a multi-year deal instead of Lopez on a 1-year deal.

I also don't see the rationale for Sacramento.

Washington declined Wagner's team option, they don't see him as an asset. TBJ's option is a half hearted effort to stretch the value of their lottery pick, he has no role with the team going forward.

There's exactly one reason why the Wizards didn't make a hard play for Thompson, the Wizards had no interest to be a luxury tax team this year.

Yeah Wagner isn't really an asset. Robinson isn't one. I don't think TBJ has a ton of value either right now. Ball dominant guys that aren't good enough to be lead options have a limited utility. Especially when they struggle to play off the ball and make open shots. Honestly there probably should be vets or we need to find better guys to develop in their roster spots.

[nate33]

Washington declined Wagner's team option, they don't see him as an asset.

I hadn't realized that. That's really surprising to me. Wagner isn't great, but he's worth the $3.8M it would have cost to keep him. And the Wizards don't really have luxtax issues next year with Ish, Robinson and Lopez coming off the books. They'll have a payroll of $118.3M plus maybe $5M for the draft pick. The luxtax threshold is $136M so there's plenty of room for Wagner and most of the MLE.

TBJ's option is a half hearted effort to stretch the value of their lottery pick, he has no role with the team going forward.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have trade value.

There's exactly one reason why the Wizards didn't make a hard play for Thompson, the Wizards had no interest to be a luxury tax team this year.

The could have refrained from signing Lopez and Gil, and waived Pasecniks, and they would have had the MLE. Their issue wasn't the luxtax this year. It was flexibility next year.

[nate33]

I'm not interested in trading real assets (Mo, Troy Brown, the 2nd round pick) for an expiring contract. If we want Holmes, we can try and sign him with the MLE in the summer.

And if we had wanted to invest the money in a player like Holmes for the long term, we would have signed Tristan Thompson to a multi-year deal instead of Lopez on a 1-year deal.

I also don't see the rationale for Sacramento.

Washington declined Wagner's team option, they don't see him as an asset. TBJ's option is a half hearted effort to stretch the value of their lottery pick, he has no role with the team going forward.

There's exactly one reason why the Wizards didn't make a hard play for Thompson, the Wizards had no interest to be a luxury tax team this year.

Yeah Wagner isn't really an asset. Robinson isn't one. I don't think TBJ has a ton of value either right now. Ball dominant guys that aren't good enough to be lead options have a limited utility. Especially when they struggle to play off the ball and make open shots. Honestly there probably should be vets or we need to find better guys to develop in their roster spots.

I think you are wrong about Brown. He has had a rough start this year, but he has been an advanced stats darling for years now. He has value.

[DCZards]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 2st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

Wiseman is already looking like a future star. He was hands down the best player in this year's draft.

I really don' see the Warriors trading Wiseman for Beal, especially when they have Klay coming back to play the 2.

[pcbothwel]

I like it! Particularly if we wait until the trade deadline and it's a sure thing that Golden State will miss the playoffs again.

I'd be willing to throw in Bertans to sweeten the pot if one of those 2021 lotto picks looks like it'll be in the top 5.

No... This trade would happen next summer. Im not letting GSW decrease the value of the value of the pick will simultaneously killing our playoff run.
It's a balance. whatever team Beal is on gets better and the other worse. Assuming its a near wash in value... Im picking the scenario where we actually do something this year.
Again, GSW are the ones in need. They are bleeding money with all their stars hurt and past their prime. They need to make a move and there isnt a single player that is more productive and fits better than Beal while also taking on Wiggins (And giving them a great role player like Bryant)...

Sure. I'd do it in the summer too - as long as one of those picks was fairly high in the lottery. I don't know if I'd do it for the #12 and #14 pick.

Oh of course. I see a 7 & 11 type package... i love Cade and Suggs, but Jalen Green, Springer, Bouknight, Moody, etc are also available in the top 15... lots of interesting guard prospects (Bouknight looks like a lock to succeed)

[pcbothwel]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 2st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

There is no way GSW can do better than that. Perfect fits in both skill and personality while dumping Wiggins.

We then dont have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch. We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

Wiseman is already looking like a future star. He was hands down the best player in this year's draft.

I really don' see the Warriors trading Wiseman for Beal, especially when they have Klay coming back to play the 2.

Klay will be 31/32 next season coming off ACL and Achilles tears... There is no way he can stay with these guards on the perimeter.

Wiseman: Tell me you're kidding. It's an EXTREMELY small size, but the guy played 24 MPG for 3 games... without a single assist! Not One. He is averaging less than 9 Rebounds/36 and is being carried by the fact that he has gone 5/6 from 3. Otherwise, he has looked pretty lost. Given the opportunity to have either him or Deni... I choose Deni, no question.

If you are high on him all around, fine, I disagree... but what he has shown so far is Nothing. He is a turnstile on Defense, looks lost with a low IQ/Awareness, can't catch the ball/terrible hands, terrible positioning and biting on fakes.

The only reason I included the Wiseman for Bryant swap was to give each team a Center the better aligns with their timeline.
Wiseman is pretty far from being a starter for a good team, let alone a starting Center on a Chip contender.

[NatP4]

I need a future stud PG back in a Beal trade.

Caris Lavert+Jarret Allen for Beal. Throw in Prince for Filler. Send Westbrook to the Pelicans or some other fringe playoff team for their 2021 1st. Sign Holmes with the MLE. Package both 2021 1sts to move up to take Cunningham.

Cunningham Winston
Lavert Mathews
Avdija Brown
Bonga Rui
Bryant Holmes

[DCZards]

Klay will be 31/32 next season coming off ACL and Achilles tears... There is no way he can stay with these guards on the perimeter.

Wiseman: Tell me you're kidding. It's an EXTREMELY small size, but the guy played 24 MPG for 3 games... without a single assist! Not One. He is averaging less than 9 Rebounds/36 and is being carried by the fact that he has gone 5/6 from 3. Otherwise, he has looked pretty lost. Given the opportunity to have either him or Deni... I choose Deni, no question.

If you are high on him all around, fine, I disagree... but what he has shown so far is Nothing. He is a turnstile on Defense, looks lost with a low IQ/Awareness, can't catch the ball/terrible hands, terrible positioning and biting on fakes.

The only reason I included the Wiseman for Bryant swap was to give each team a Center the better aligns with their timeline.
Wiseman is pretty far from being a starter for a good team, let alone a starting Center on a Chip contender.

Your points about Wiseman’s hands and his court awareness (or IQ) are legit. His hands might continue to be somewhat of an issue but the court awareness will improve with experience. Wiseman is only 19 years old and played all of 3 games in college…so he’s essentially a high school kid.

From all accounts, Wiseman is a good kid and a willing learner. And he has the kind of size and athleticism that you can’t teach. He also already has a fairly well-developed offensive game for a young big, especially as a long range shooter...which is a must for today's big men.

So, yes, I’m willing to say right now that Wiseman is gonna be a beast in 3-4 years. If you don't believe likewise, why would you propose trading an all-NBA talent like Beal for him?

[pcbothwel]

I need a future stud PG back in a Beal trade.

Caris Lavert+Jarret Allen for Beal. Throw in Prince for Filler. Send Westbrook to the Pelicans or some other fringe playoff team for their 2021 1st. Sign Holmes with the MLE. Package both 2021 1sts to move up to take Cunningham.

Cunningham Winston
Lavert Mathews
Avdija Brown
Bonga Rui
Bryant Holmes

Jesus thats an awful trade. Levert is such an overrated prospect at this point its getting ridiculous.
The guy is Tyreke Evans for god sake and he never lead anybody anywhere. It's uncanny how similar they are at the exact same age. High usage combo guard that can rebound and pass (2:1 AST:TOV)... but is a mediocre defender that can barely crack a TS of 50%. What year are we living in at this point?!?

https://stathead.com/tiny/40d0u

Oh, and the fact that Levert is 26 and exactly 1 year younger than Beal is exactly a "Future".
Thats an EG type trade that keeps us in the Treadmill.

[NatP4]

I need a future stud PG back in a Beal trade.

Caris Lavert+Jarret Allen for Beal. Throw in Prince for Filler. Send Westbrook to the Pelicans or some other fringe playoff team for their 2021 1st. Sign Holmes with the MLE. Package both 2021 1sts to move up to take Cunningham.

Cunningham Winston
Lavert Mathews
Avdija Brown
Bonga Rui
Bryant Holmes

Jesus thats an awful trade. Levert is such an overrated prospect at this point its getting ridiculous.
The guy is Tyreke Evans for god sake and he never lead anybody anywhere. It's uncanny how similar they are at the exact same age. High usage combo guard that can rebound and pass (2:1 AST:TOV)... but is a mediocre defender that can barely crack a TS of 50%. What year are we living in at this point?!?

https://stathead.com/tiny/40d0u

Oh, and the fact that Levert is 26 and exactly 1 year younger than Beal is exactly a "Future".
Thats an EG type trade that keeps us in the Treadmill.

I’ll role the dice on Lavert, Allen is one the best young centers in the NBA, probably equally impactful as Beal right now.