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Nuggets Trades

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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1221 » by THE J0KER » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:54 am

skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:With two max players already locked in the roster, the Nuggets have no business to take expiring player asking max contract. We should learn from our J.Grant episode about our inability on market to compete offers of desperate teams with empty cap. But Grant was actually worthy that late 1st pick even for one single season, while Collins price is much higher today than Grant's year ago. Atlanta have pg Young, pf Collins, c Capella, and bunch of good sg/sf players (Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Reddish, Huerter, Hunter). Our Hawks #1 target should be D.Hunter with MPJ moved to PF. If it possible to send Millsap in Atlanta, then we should grab Huerter too. Atlanta has no interest to take more sg/sf players (Harris and Barton), and Millsap can be only backup PF and the mentor of the young players. So we need to find 3rd team which have notable PF as future Hawks starter, team which willing to build future around Collins, and that team must love Nuggets players.

For example:
ATLANTA: Griffin, Millsap, DET2021, DEN2021
DETROIT: Collins, Harris, Barton
NUGGETS: Hunter, Huerter (and $30M cap purge!)



Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1222 » by Ball4life32 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:43 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:With two max players already locked in the roster, the Nuggets have no business to take expiring player asking max contract. We should learn from our J.Grant episode about our inability on market to compete offers of desperate teams with empty cap. But Grant was actually worthy that late 1st pick even for one single season, while Collins price is much higher today than Grant's year ago. Atlanta have pg Young, pf Collins, c Capella, and bunch of good sg/sf players (Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Reddish, Huerter, Hunter). Our Hawks #1 target should be D.Hunter with MPJ moved to PF. If it possible to send Millsap in Atlanta, then we should grab Huerter too. Atlanta has no interest to take more sg/sf players (Harris and Barton), and Millsap can be only backup PF and the mentor of the young players. So we need to find 3rd team which have notable PF as future Hawks starter, team which willing to build future around Collins, and that team must love Nuggets players.

For example:
ATLANTA: Griffin, Millsap, DET2021, DEN2021
DETROIT: Collins, Harris, Barton
NUGGETS: Hunter, Huerter (and $30M cap purge!)



Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.

The Hawks have Gallo at PF and even played a little C...not sure if you view him as a SF? But they aren’t going to want to be paying 60m+ to three 30+ year old injury prone PF’s much less give up 3 or even any of their young core to do so even with the picks. Do not seeing Hawks trading Collins for cheap when they’re trying to win this year. (There is a chance Hawks re-sign him next yr) And Dunn just had ankle surgery.... so far Huerter + Hunter look like their best wings along with Reddish.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1223 » by THE J0KER » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:11 pm

Ball4life32 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:

Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.

The Hawks have Gallo at PF and even played a little C...not sure if you view him as a SF? But they aren’t going to want to be paying 60m+ to three 30+ year old injury prone PF’s much less give up 3 or even any of their young core to do so even with the picks. Do not seeing Hawks trading Collins for cheap when they’re trying to win this year. (There is a chance Hawks re-sign him next yr) And Dunn just had ankle surgery.... so far Huerter + Hunter look like their best wings along with Reddish.

I actually agree that the biggest winner of such an eventual deal would be Nuggets. My point is that if we target someone from Hawks it should be Hunter, not Collins which we would lose already next summer anyway without the ability to match any 30M+ offer from the rest of the league. No surprise if Gallo will be used this season more even as a center than SF considering how crowded is SF spot these days in Atlanta, but SF is the spot where Gallo is most valuable as a player as one of the tallest people able to play it efficiently.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1224 » by The Rebel » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:56 pm

Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:We don't have to pay him the max, we can let him walk and force a sign and trade for a pick or other players since he is restricted.

I am not saying that Collins is the only option, I am saying that is the one I would be chasing right now. Who do you see out there that is possibly available and cheap enough we can trade Barton for him or use part of the TPE on?


Not sure I get the reasoning, how do you even "chase" him without offering near the max? And Atlanta can still match.


He is under contract right now, he is not a free agent until next summer. You chase him by offering Atlanta something worthwhile now so we can get him for this season to see how he works out.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1225 » by The Rebel » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:16 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:With two max players already locked in the roster, the Nuggets have no business to take expiring player asking max contract. We should learn from our J.Grant episode about our inability on market to compete offers of desperate teams with empty cap. But Grant was actually worthy that late 1st pick even for one single season, while Collins price is much higher today than Grant's year ago. Atlanta have pg Young, pf Collins, c Capella, and bunch of good sg/sf players (Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Reddish, Huerter, Hunter). Our Hawks #1 target should be D.Hunter with MPJ moved to PF. If it possible to send Millsap in Atlanta, then we should grab Huerter too. Atlanta has no interest to take more sg/sf players (Harris and Barton), and Millsap can be only backup PF and the mentor of the young players. So we need to find 3rd team which have notable PF as future Hawks starter, team which willing to build future around Collins, and that team must love Nuggets players.

For example:
ATLANTA: Griffin, Millsap, DET2021, DEN2021
DETROIT: Collins, Harris, Barton
NUGGETS: Hunter, Huerter (and $30M cap purge!)



Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.



Good PF options and guys like Griffin and Love do not fit together. Griffin and Love are not very good after all the injuries and yet are paid like max players. No team is taking them on for free and yet you have the Hawks giving up 2 good prospects for them. How does that even start to make sense for the Hawks?

For that matter Turner is being shopped because he isn't a PF, he is at his best by far at C but Sabonis is better so they are trying to move him, yet nobody wants him on his contract because he is also overpaid.

As for losing Collins, he will be a restricted free agent, which means you can force a sign and trade or keep him.It happens all the time.

Atlanta does not have cap space, I know you don't fully understand how the salary cap works in the NBA, but you have to realize that teams cannot just randomly add $30 million in salary.

Also there are ties between Grant and Weaver, the GM of the Pistons. It reportedly goes back to syracuse, and Weaver was the driving force in getting Grant to OKC. It has nothing to do with the Nuggets other than Grant was here for a year.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1226 » by Timmyyy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:30 pm

THE J0KER wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:With two max players already locked in the roster, the Nuggets have no business to take expiring player asking max contract. We should learn from our J.Grant episode about our inability on market to compete offers of desperate teams with empty cap. But Grant was actually worthy that late 1st pick even for one single season, while Collins price is much higher today than Grant's year ago. Atlanta have pg Young, pf Collins, c Capella, and bunch of good sg/sf players (Gallinari, Bogdanovic, Reddish, Huerter, Hunter). Our Hawks #1 target should be D.Hunter with MPJ moved to PF. If it possible to send Millsap in Atlanta, then we should grab Huerter too. Atlanta has no interest to take more sg/sf players (Harris and Barton), and Millsap can be only backup PF and the mentor of the young players. So we need to find 3rd team which have notable PF as future Hawks starter, team which willing to build future around Collins, and that team must love Nuggets players.

For example:
ATLANTA: Griffin, Millsap, DET2021, DEN2021
DETROIT: Collins, Harris, Barton
NUGGETS: Hunter, Huerter (and $30M cap purge!)



Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.


Joker I really like you getting engaged in trade ideas, but I'm sorry, in my opinion it makes no sense to discuss such a trade idea. Of course Hunter is exactly the type of player we need.
But I mean this is not even remotely close to being anything near realistic. I don't know where to even start.

Atlanta was bad for a few years now and they are supposed to give away three players they acquired during that time? All of those even panned out the way they hoped. Of course the Nuggets and Detroit would be happy with this. And for what return is Atlanta doing it? For more picks they need to hit, while they gave away ones they already hit? Or because they are getting two players at the same position that both wouldn't make them better considering what they give up? What exactly is the reasoning for Atlanta to do that trade?

I really enjoy reading through some of the trade ideas but this is just a late wish for Santa Claus.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1227 » by The Rebel » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:31 pm

Ball4life32 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:

Don't see how this can work, how/why does ATL take on an extra $36M in salary for this year on a 36yo Millsap and an injury-prone 31yo PF (with another $38M on a PO next year) for a late lotto pick and a mid 1st from us when they're trying to compete. Weren't both Hunter and Heuter both higher lottery picks ??

Barton wants to start but he'd be bolting next year because he'll be playing behind Grant (and how does he feel about the Barton competition ?) He's already being pushed by Bey. I guess both Harris and Barton could play SG, they do upgrade at that position

For DEN, SG now seems filled with youth and inexperience, plus where does our perimeter defense come from ?? And the $30M, are we expected to get another PF ?? we're not really a FA destination. Not sure how Jokic would feel about this as it looks to makes us even younger and farther away from the WCF in my opinion. Long-run looks good but not for the short-term.

If the Hawks decided to part ways with Collins there is no too many good PF options available on the trade market (B.Griffin, K.Love, A.Gordon, M.Turner...), and except Pistons and Cavs I don't see any other team which owns notable PF for trade and is in the same time ready to overpay new young PF next summer. That is a very important detail because nobody is going to trade for Collins and lose him already next summer.

Pistons 2021 pick is most probably going to be around #5 in a stacked draft. The good thing about Pistons FO is that, according to Grant and Plumlee signs, they very respect Nuggets players. So, Atlanta would get for extra 30M player which is better than Collins when healthy, and two picks from the stacked draft (including one really high pick). The alternative is to lose these 30M next summer to overpaid Collins or to lose Collins for nothing. And having 5 SG/SF starter level players is just a waste of resources.

The Hawks have Gallo at PF and even played a little C...not sure if you view him as a SF? But they aren’t going to want to be paying 60m+ to three 30+ year old injury prone PF’s much less give up 3 or even any of their young core to do so even with the picks. Do not seeing Hawks trading Collins for cheap when they’re trying to win this year. (There is a chance Hawks re-sign him next yr) And Dunn just had ankle surgery.... so far Huerter + Hunter look like their best wings along with Reddish.



While I certainly agree that the Hawks will not do that terrible deal, I would like to know what you think they will get for Collins considering they likely are not going to match a max deal next year?
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1228 » by Richard Miller » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:42 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:We don't have to pay him the max, we can let him walk and force a sign and trade for a pick or other players since he is restricted.

I am not saying that Collins is the only option, I am saying that is the one I would be chasing right now. Who do you see out there that is possibly available and cheap enough we can trade Barton for him or use part of the TPE on?


Not sure I get the reasoning, how do you even "chase" him without offering near the max? And Atlanta can still match.


He is under contract right now, he is not a free agent until next summer. You chase him by offering Atlanta something worthwhile now so we can get him for this season to see how he works out.


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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1229 » by THE J0KER » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:20 pm

Just a few pages back here is a very popular opinion that 6-time (in the past 7 seasons) All-NBA first team member James Harden was worthy Harris+Barton, but now Harris+Barton+Millsap+2021FRP is not enough for Hunter!? This is anyway idea for the 2021 offseason when Millsap will be available for the trades and Collins sign&trade 30M+ deal, so everything can work. But my point is if we should target someone from the Hawks team it should be someone from their big SG/SF group of players, especially Hunter, not PF Collins.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1230 » by Timmyyy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:49 pm

THE J0KER wrote:Just a few pages back here is a very popular opinion that 6-time (in the past 7 seasons) All-NBA first team member James Harden was worthy Harris+Barton, but now Harris+Barton+Millsap+2021FRP is not enough for Hunter!? This is anyway idea for the 2021 offseason when Millsap will be available for the trades and Collins sign&trade 30M+ deal, so everything can work. But my point is if we should target someone from the Hawks team it should be someone from their big SG/SF group of players, especially Hunter, not PF Collins.


I do not agree with everything that was said about Harden on this board. But most people on here were explicitly stating that they know he is worth way more but wouldn't want to pay that price simply because they do not like him here. No matter if it's because of attitude, behaviour, fit or whatever. Not because of his quality of play.

And yes that package wouldn't interest Atlanta in the slightest. The value is completely irrelevant since it is always connected with the team acquiring the pieces. For an immediate contender there might be a deal, solely going by the value you stated here. But a young good team giving up three young good pieces just to go back in time and draft again doesn't make sense.

I absolutely agree with you on the last sentence though. Hunter is basically a perfect fit for us. Collins is a solid fit but would definitely leave some question marks and I, personally, don't want him here at all to be honest. But please let us face, that Hunter won't be a Denver Nugget anytime soon, while John Collins at least seems reasonable since he and Atlanta weren't able to agree to an extension.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1231 » by skywalker33 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:12 pm

THE J0KER wrote:Just a few pages back here is a very popular opinion that 6-time (in the past 7 seasons) All-NBA first team member James Harden was worthy Harris+Barton, but now Harris+Barton+Millsap+2021FRP is not enough for Hunter!? This is anyway idea for the 2021 offseason when Millsap will be available for the trades and Collins sign&trade 30M+ deal, so everything can work. But my point is if we should target someone from the Hawks team it should be someone from their big SG/SF group of players, especially Hunter, not PF Collins.


No, that's not what was said, was it ?? I had questions and this is what you came up with, that it wasn't enough ? I was asking about the fit of the deal, you always bring up fit for other teams, yet when I bring up those issues you misdirect the whole issues. Personally I'm OK with Hunter and Hueter as Nuggets but it still would make the Nuggets younger and more inexperienced, those were my points which you skirted past.
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose


Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1232 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:55 am

skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:Just a few pages back here is a very popular opinion that 6-time (in the past 7 seasons) All-NBA first team member James Harden was worthy Harris+Barton, but now Harris+Barton+Millsap+2021FRP is not enough for Hunter!? This is anyway idea for the 2021 offseason when Millsap will be available for the trades and Collins sign&trade 30M+ deal, so everything can work. But my point is if we should target someone from the Hawks team it should be someone from their big SG/SF group of players, especially Hunter, not PF Collins.

No, that's not what was said, was it ?? I had questions and this is what you came up with, that it wasn't enough ? I was asking about the fit of the deal, you always bring up fit for other teams, yet when I bring up those issues you misdirect the whole issues. Personally I'm OK with Hunter and Hueter as Nuggets but it still would make the Nuggets younger and more inexperienced, those were my points which you skirted past.

Things get crazy when talking about Harden. It depends on who is speaking and which team they support and whether or not they like the polarizing Harden.

Some think the Rockets should demand five all-stars and five 1sts and ... Others think he isn't worth much at all.

All I know is he is a truly remarkable offensive player that is better on defense than he is given credit for (which isn't hard because everyone mocks his defense, which isn't even average in my opinion) -- and he just doesn't seem like a good fit in Denver's system. Put him on a team where he can be ball-dominant and have one or two all-stars with him and he'd probably be truly great.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1233 » by The Rebel » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:46 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:Just a few pages back here is a very popular opinion that 6-time (in the past 7 seasons) All-NBA first team member James Harden was worthy Harris+Barton, but now Harris+Barton+Millsap+2021FRP is not enough for Hunter!? This is anyway idea for the 2021 offseason when Millsap will be available for the trades and Collins sign&trade 30M+ deal, so everything can work. But my point is if we should target someone from the Hawks team it should be someone from their big SG/SF group of players, especially Hunter, not PF Collins.

No, that's not what was said, was it ?? I had questions and this is what you came up with, that it wasn't enough ? I was asking about the fit of the deal, you always bring up fit for other teams, yet when I bring up those issues you misdirect the whole issues. Personally I'm OK with Hunter and Hueter as Nuggets but it still would make the Nuggets younger and more inexperienced, those were my points which you skirted past.

Things get crazy when talking about Harden. It depends on who is speaking and which team they support and whether or not they like the polarizing Harden.

Some think the Rockets should demand five all-stars and five 1sts and ... Others think he isn't worth much at all.

All I know is he is a truly remarkable offensive player that is better on defense than he is given credit for (which isn't hard because everyone mocks his defense, which isn't even average in my opinion) -- and he just doesn't seem like a good fit in Denver's system. Put him on a team where he can be ball-dominant and have one or two all-stars with him and he'd probably be truly great.



I believe what I said was that I would not trade Harris and Barton straight up for Harden, it has nothing to do with value other than I would not take him. At all, and I hope they keep him as far away from this team as possible.

Harden is basically the best scorer out of the late 00s draft, he is arguably the best scorer in the game right now. I still would not take him.

Jordan finally started winning when he learned to trust his teammates, he learned he could not do it himself.

Iverson and Melo were arguably the best scorers out of the late 90s and early 00s drafts, and they really did not work well together. Melo seems to have learned but it is too late for him, Iverson never did.

Harden was brought off the bench in OKC because he was too ball dominate. That is why they kept Ibaka and Perkins and traded Harden, because he was too ball dominate to ever work with Durant and Westbrook long term.

Howard, Paul, Westbrook, and Melo all got the hell out of Houston as fast as they could.

Paul got the furthest he had been in his career with Harden, went in there knowing he was putting his game aside, and still wanted out in 2 years.

Westbrook was his child hood friend that still couldn't play with him.

It was reported last summer that Harden tried to get Butler to go to Houston instead of Miami, and Butler choose Miami instead.

They say that 1 of the nets stars doesn't want to play with Harden. Many are saying it is Khyrie, I think it is Durant. Durant put aside his personal accolades to go to the Warriors, not once did he try to join Harden despite having been teammates, because he knows Harden won't do it.

Guys don't want to play with Harden because they see that it will not work Like with Iverson the only way to win with Harden is to build around his skill set. you need a pick and roll big and defensive stars. Guys that are willing to shoot 3s and crash the glass for offensive rebounds. Everybody bitches about Barton pounding the ball, Harden is like that on crack, Jokic will go minutes without even touching the ball. Hell the entire rest of the team will go minutes without touching the ball. Adding him kills all of Jokic and Murray's value. I want no part of that.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1234 » by The Rebel » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:44 pm

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1235 » by skywalker33 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:24 pm

The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Click-bait at it's best

I could easily see Barton being offered as filler here, perhaps even Harris but I'd have to wonder what the return would be ?
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1236 » by stoo » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:41 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Click-bait at it's best

I could easily see Barton being offered as filler here, perhaps even Harris but I'd have to wonder what the return would be ?


3rd team is most probably Philly. So we can think in that direction
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1237 » by Richard Miller » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:42 pm

The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Targeting PJ Tucker perhaps? Ofc, no way is MPJ available if Harden is not coming to Denver.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1238 » by skywalker33 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:00 pm

stoo wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Click-bait at it's best

I could easily see Barton being offered as filler here, perhaps even Harris but I'd have to wonder what the return would be ?


3rd team is most probably Philly. So we can think in that direction


If that be the case, I'd be interested to see Matisse Thybulle coming to Denver, seems like a younger, bigger Gary Harris replacement.

Thinking bigger, I'd almost be open to taking on T.Harris with Millsap going out if we received a couple of 1sts (preferably from HOU) to compensate for that salary of his.
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose


Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1239 » by The Rebel » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:22 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Click-bait at it's best

I could easily see Barton being offered as filler here, perhaps even Harris but I'd have to wonder what the return would be ?


Of course it is click bait, especially since so many seem to want MPJ while trashing him any chance they get.

It does give us something to discuss though. Last I read Boston, Portland, Philly, Miami, and Toronto are the ones that seem to want Harden at least a little with the Celtics, Trailblazers, and Philly reportedly really wanting him. So who knows what we can send out and get back but I hope they are trying to move Barton and get back a starting PF.
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Re: Nuggets Trades 

Post#1240 » by The Rebel » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:24 pm

Richard Miller wrote:
The Rebel wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261028/Nuggets-Interested-In-Multi-Team-Trade-With-Rockets-Without-Acquiring-James-Harden

Looks like we are willing to be the 3rd team, but Murray and of course Jokic are untouchable, and last report Windhorst said that MPJ was untouchable as well, but of course that gets left off the Realgm report of the report.


Targeting PJ Tucker perhaps? Ofc, no way is MPJ available if Harden is not coming to Denver.

Trailblazers, Celtics, and 76ers reportedly are the most interested teams, so I can see any number of forwards that would work for us. As long as MPJ, Jokic, and Murray are untouchable than I will be happy if we can get better.

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