Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[pcbothwel]

My god man.... Allen is a REALLY good center in that he defends well, rebounds, and scorers easy putbacks. But his usage is 14% and he cant shoot 3's or pass.
This is NOT a knock on Allen, but if there is one thing for certain in today's game its that these archetypes never add to a teams ceiling. He is Clint Capela. Good player, but Ill be damned if we give up Beal for him.

And what do you mean "Roll the dice" on Levert? He's 26, not 20. He has played 2700+ minutes of Big Ten basketball and 5600 minutes in the NBA. He is what he is.
Trading Beal for Prime Tyreke Evans and a young Capela does NOTHING for us. We are not better, we are not younger, we are not cheaper.
Pass

[NatP4]

My god man.... Allen is a REALLY good center in that he defends well, rebounds, and scorers easy putbacks. But his usage is 14% and he cant shoot 3's or pass.
This is NOT a knock on Allen, but if there is one thing for certain in today's game its that these archetypes never add to a teams ceiling. He is Clint Capela. Good player, but Ill be damned if we give up Beal for him.

And what do you mean "Roll the dice" on Levert? He's 26, not 20. He has played 2700+ minutes of Big Ten basketball and 5600 minutes in the NBA. He is what he is.
Trading Beal for Prime Tyreke Evans and a young Capela does NOTHING for us. We are not better, we are not younger, we are not cheaper.
Pass

Clint Capela didn't fit with Westbrook. There are plenty of good quality rim protecting centers that have a massive positive impact on the game. You are overrating Beal, who was one of the absolute worst defensive players in the NBA last season and didn’t help the wizards win all that much.

I put about 5 minutes of thought into that Beal trade because the nets obviously are a team that would want another star. Ideally, you want multiple 1sts back for Beal.

Ideally, the wizards tear everything down and trade Beal now, and Westbrook at the deadline, and let Brooks go whenever. You get a 1st round pick for Westbrook, a couple for Beal, and make 5 first round selections over the next 2 drafts. The wizards are not going to do this, they are caught in between a full ground up rebuild, and being competitive, That’s really why I threw that trade out there.

[nate33]

Jarrett Allen is about to be the most promising free agent in the 2021 class during a time when lots of teams have money and no one to spend it on.

I love Allen on a rookie deal making $3M per year. But Allen making $20M a year or more isn't much of an asset. Basically, it's the Otto Porter scenario. I'm not giving up Beal for that.

Lavert isn't all that good and he's well paid too. Those Nets assets aren't really worth much as trade chips.

[Dark Faze]

Agreed that 2021 Wolves pick, 2021 Warriors pick, and Wiseman for Brad *after* the lottery is done probably provides the best value. Just need to hope Wiseman looks like a good prospect by then.

Agreed with nate, not interest in moving Beal for the right to sign Jarrett Allen at market value.

[gambitx777]

The golden state pick is owed to okc 1-20 protected , so I don't know if they can trade it before the protection is garunteed.

Agreed that 2021 Wolves pick, 2021 Warriors pick, and Wiseman for Brad *after* the lottery is done probably provides the best value. Just need to hope Wiseman looks like a good prospect by then.

Agreed with nate, not interest in moving Beal for the right to sign Jarrett Allen at market value.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[pcbothwel]

The golden state pick is owed to okc 1-20 protected , so I don't know if they can trade it before the protection is garunteed.

Agreed that 2021 Wolves pick, 2021 Warriors pick, and Wiseman for Brad *after* the lottery is done probably provides the best value. Just need to hope Wiseman looks like a good prospect by then.

Agreed with nate, not interest in moving Beal for the right to sign Jarrett Allen at market value.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yes they can trade the pick once the summer starts. They wont convey the pick and will therefore trade the TWolves 2021 2nd (You are correct that we would need to wait until after the draft of the pick rolled over to a 2022 1st, but it doesnt).

They really are a great match if we flounder this year. Name a player thats a better fit on a team that can afford to take on Wiggins and rebuild. LAC wont trade PG13 for draft picks, same for Philly with Simmons/Embiid.

Again, GSW needs another guard to alleviate the ball handling and scoring away from Curry and Klay as they enter their early to mid 30's. Curry and Klay are going to be 34 & 32 the next time they are in the playoffs... they need help on the perimeter from a versatile guard that can play on & off the ball.
Also, Brad is the perfect age in that he'll be in the middle of his prime as Steph and Klay lower usage/minutes.

[Ruzious]

Bizarre combo of stats for Wiseman - especially with him being a 7 footer: he's made 83.3% of his 2's and 38.5% of his 2's.

[Ruzious]

The golden state pick is owed to okc 1-20 protected , so I don't know if they can trade it before the protection is garunteed.

Agreed that 2021 Wolves pick, 2021 Warriors pick, and Wiseman for Brad *after* the lottery is done probably provides the best value. Just need to hope Wiseman looks like a good prospect by then.

Agreed with nate, not interest in moving Beal for the right to sign Jarrett Allen at market value.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yes they can trade the pick once the summer starts. They wont convey the pick and will therefore trade the TWolves 2021 2nd (You are correct that we would need to wait until after the draft of the pick rolled over to a 2022 1st, but it doesnt).

They really are a great match if we flounder this year. Name a player thats a better fit on a team that can afford to take on Wiggins and rebuild. LAC wont trade PG13 for draft picks, same for Philly with Simmons/Embiid.

Again, GSW needs another guard to alleviate the ball handling and scoring away from Curry and Klay as they enter their early to mid 30's. Curry and Klay are going to be 34 & 32 the next time they are in the playoffs... they need help on the perimeter from a versatile guard that can play on & off the ball.
Also, Brad is the perfect age in that he'll be in the middle of his prime as Steph and Klay lower usage/minutes.

Add in Bryant for a future unprotected 1st from GS. GS will need a big and Bryant has good chemistry with Beal. Bryant and Wiseman can't play together, so Washington gets some value for him.

[pcbothwel]

The golden state pick is owed to okc 1-20 protected , so I don't know if they can trade it before the protection is garunteed.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yes they can trade the pick once the summer starts. They wont convey the pick and will therefore trade the TWolves 2021 2nd (You are correct that we would need to wait until after the draft of the pick rolled over to a 2022 1st, but it doesnt).

They really are a great match if we flounder this year. Name a player thats a better fit on a team that can afford to take on Wiggins and rebuild. LAC wont trade PG13 for draft picks, same for Philly with Simmons/Embiid.

Again, GSW needs another guard to alleviate the ball handling and scoring away from Curry and Klay as they enter their early to mid 30's. Curry and Klay are going to be 34 & 32 the next time they are in the playoffs... they need help on the perimeter from a versatile guard that can play on & off the ball.
Also, Brad is the perfect age in that he'll be in the middle of his prime as Steph and Klay lower usage/minutes.

Add in Bryant for a future unprotected 1st from GS. GS will need a big and Bryant has good chemistry with Beal. Bryant and Wiseman can't play together, so Washington gets some value for him.

Huh?... I did:

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks cant be beat, and Beal is the PERFECT fit as the compliment scorer/ball handler next to Curry as he ages and Klay moves to the 3.

Beal + Bryant for Wiggins, Wiseman, 2 2021 2st (GSW + MIN), 2026 1st (top 5 protected).

Curry
Beal
Klay
Draymond
Bryant

[pcbothwel]

Bizarre combo of stats for Wiseman - especially with him being a 7 footer: he's made 83.3% of his 2's and 38.5% of his 2's.

im telling you'll... He's fools gold.
I dont care that people say he's athletic... He's not Coordinated, balanced, poor functional strength, poor hands. Those will KILL most any Center. Combine that with his poor awareness and I'm just not that interested.

Dont look at those stats, look at the tape and even go read the message board for GSW. They love his upside and think he is more advanced offensively than they thought... but, they are seeing TERRBILE turnstile defense, low IQ, and mediocre BASKETBALL athleticism.

He'll never be worth his contract. He's going to make 9.1M, 9.6M, and 12.1M the next 3 years. He MIGHT surpass that value in the last year, but in year 5 he's going to be a FA and be overpaid.

That said, this trade is for next summer so I think his value will have a bit more clarity at that point.

[JAR69]

I would take the Miami deals before GSW at this point. I'd rather get back actual talent (plus one pick) than hope that multiple 2021 draft picks work out. And the Wiggins contract is a serious millstone.

[Dark Faze]

I would take the Miami deals before GSW at this point. I'd rather get back actual talent (plus one pick) than hope that multiple 2021 draft picks work out. And the Wiggins contract is a serious millstone.

If Herro has a good season and Achiuwa looks good there'll be some thought there for sure.

I shouldn't be perhaps, but I'm a bit leery of Herro's ceiling.

[payitforward]

No, Nat. We don't want Kelly Oubre, Jr. He's a terrible player.

I remember ranting about Bobby Portis should have been the pick as opposed to Oubre plus a round two.

He’s looking pretty good surrounded by really good player in Milwaukee. Just like Markieff the guy is a good situational player.

Kelly Oubre...pif, he and Otto and mobile Gortat were very decent when Wittman played them together.

Portis is still trash, don't let the box scores fool you.

Still doesn't do anything that contributes to winning basketball, much like the lesser of the Morris twins.

Given the choice between the three I'd go with Oubre since he's the only one out of the bunch you can expect to defend.

We're not going to say Bobby is "better" & certainly not "good" based on 3 games.

OTOH, "the box scores" don't "fool you." They tell you that he's played well in 3 games.

Overall, on their careers, which is how you judge what you are likely to get from a guy & whether you want him, none of these three players is any good at all.

[DCZards]

im telling you'll... He's fools gold.
I dont care that people say he's athletic... He's not Coordinated, balanced, poor functional strength, poor hands. Those will KILL most any Center. Combine that with his poor awareness and I'm just not that interested.

Dont look at those stats, look at the tape and even go read the message board for GSW. They love his upside and think he is more advanced offensively than they thought... but, they are seeing TERRBILE turnstile defense, low IQ, and mediocre BASKETBALL athleticism.

He'll never be worth his contract. He's going to make 9.1M, 9.6M, and 12.1M the next 3 years. He MIGHT surpass that value in the last year, but in year 5 he's going to be a FA and be overpaid.

That said, this trade is for next summer so I think his value will have a bit more clarity at that point.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but this is what one of Wiseman’s teammates says about him:

“I told y’all after Day 1 that I think he’s going to be really special,” Draymond Green said Saturday. “I told you all that. Am I surprised? … I had never seen James play much and so to see his skill set is, ‘Wow, it’s nice.’ But we had all heard about James for years and how special he was and how good he would be once he gets to the league. … To see him play and doing things well, it’s not necessarily surprising, it’s just something new that I didn’t know.

“And the fun part or the most interesting part about the things that he’s done in these first two games is he doesn’t have a **** clue about what he’s actually doing. And that’s special. He don’t even know the basics. And it’s no one’s fault. I mean, the kid’s played three games in college and came from high school. So there’s just certain basic things he just has no idea how to do. … The reality is he’s been back on the floor for a week or so, so those things will come. But to see what he’s able to do not having a clue, it’s very exciting to be a part of that and try to help guide him in the right direction. ‘Cause he’s got a real chance.”

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I remember ranting about Bobby Portis should have been the pick as opposed to Oubre plus a round two.

He’s looking pretty good surrounded by really good player in Milwaukee. Just like Markieff the guy is a good situational player.

Kelly Oubre...pif, he and Otto and mobile Gortat were very decent when Wittman played them together.

Portis is still trash, don't let the box scores fool you.

Still doesn't do anything that contributes to winning basketball, much like the lesser of the Morris twins.

Given the choice between the three I'd go with Oubre since he's the only one out of the bunch you can expect to defend.

We're not going to say Bobby is "better" & certainly not "good" based on 3 games.

OTOH, "the box scores" don't "fool you." They tell you that he's played well in 3 games.

Overall, on their careers, which is how you judge what you are likely to get from a guy & whether you want him, none of these three players is any good at all.

Would you rathe eat rat poison and die or eat ground glass?

Saddam Hussein wanted to die by firing squad, which he considered honorable for a military man. I saw the video of him before he was hanged. Death is death.

These players are just guys but I think any and all of them can be utilitarian in the right system for the right coaching at the right time.

Portis is flowing SO FAR in Milwaukee. Oubre is not SO FAR for Golden State. Morris is seriously lucky that they like him in LAL.

Just like Fabricio Oberto was for Flip.

Jared Dudley is lucky, too.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My god man.... Allen is a REALLY good center in that he defends well, rebounds, and scorers easy putbacks. But his usage is 14% and he cant shoot 3's or pass.
This is NOT a knock on Allen, but if there is one thing for certain in today's game its that these archetypes never add to a teams ceiling. He is Clint Capela. Good player, but Ill be damned if we give up Beal for him.

And what do you mean "Roll the dice" on Levert? He's 26, not 20. He has played 2700+ minutes of Big Ten basketball and 5600 minutes in the NBA. He is what he is.
Trading Beal for Prime Tyreke Evans and a young Capela does NOTHING for us. We are not better, we are not younger, we are not cheaper.
Pass

I hated on Tyreke Evans predraft.

He was better than I thought he’d be...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bizarre combo of stats for Wiseman - especially with him being a 7 footer: he's made 83.3% of his 2's and 38.5% of his 2's.

im telling you'll... He's fools gold.
I dont care that people say he's athletic... He's not Coordinated, balanced, poor functional strength, poor hands. Those will KILL most any Center. Combine that with his poor awareness and I'm just not that interested.

Dont look at those stats, look at the tape and even go read the message board for GSW. They love his upside and think he is more advanced offensively than they thought... but, they are seeing TERRBILE turnstile defense, low IQ, and mediocre BASKETBALL athleticism.

He'll never be worth his contract. He's going to make 9.1M, 9.6M, and 12.1M the next 3 years. He MIGHT surpass that value in the last year, but in year 5 he's going to be a FA and be overpaid.

That said, this trade is for next summer so I think his value will have a bit more clarity at that point.

I think he’s more of a tweeter SF/PF but the rest of the sees only his height.

Years ago I said Javale McGee should shoot threes. Not try and bang in the post. I also said he will be better in his thirties back when Flip was call guys knuckleheads 10 years ago.

I admit when I’m wrong as hell so forgive my gloating.

[payitforward]

Ish Smith+Mo Wagner+2021 2nd round pick for Richaun Holmes.

Why do we keep seeing so-called "proposed trades" of this kind, where we give away nothing & get a terrific player in return?

This trade is laughable from Sacramento's POV. Anybody can see that. I'm sure you must have seen it, Nat? So... what's the point?

[payitforward]

The Home Run trade is clearly GSW. Wiseman and two 2021 Lotto picks (i.e. for Beal)....

We then don't have to do a Full tank as Westbrook, Brown, Deni, Rui, Wiseman plus 3 Rookies would REALLY fun to watch....

Except... that is a full tank. Or, rather, that is "the process." Or, if you prefer, it's "rebuilding from scratch."

We could then move Westbrook in his last year to a contender.

Unlikely -- but also unnecessary.

I like it!... I'd be willing to throw in Bertans to sweeten the pot if one of those 2021 lotto picks looks like it'll be in the top 5.

Absolutely -- even if it doesn't look that high. But, if we went this route with Beal, it'd be even better to trade Bertans separately.

Only problem is that I can't imagine the Warriors going for this trade. It's way too big a bet on Bradley Beal.

edit: duh... I didn't read carefully enough & didn't notice that we were taking on Wiggins plus giving Bryant as well. They might do it....

[payitforward]

Portis is still trash, don't let the box scores fool you.

Still doesn't do anything that contributes to winning basketball, much like the lesser of the Morris twins.

Given the choice between the three I'd go with Oubre since he's the only one out of the bunch you can expect to defend.

We're not going to say Bobby is "better" & certainly not "good" based on 3 games.

OTOH, "the box scores" don't "fool you." They tell you that he's played well in 3 games.

Overall, on their careers, which is how you judge what you are likely to get from a guy & whether you want him, none of these three players is any good at all.

Would you rathe eat rat poison and die or eat ground glass?

Saddam Hussein wanted to die by firing squad, which he considered honorable for a military man. I saw the video of him before he was hanged. Death is death.

These players are just guys but I think any and all of them can be utilitarian in the right system for the right coaching at the right time.

Portis is flowing SO FAR in Milwaukee. Oubre is not SO FAR for Golden State. Morris is seriously lucky that they like him in LAL.

Just like Fabricio Oberto was for Flip.

Jared Dudley is lucky, too.

Sure...!

My point was different: none of these 3 guys is someone I want to "go after." We are a mess. We need to rebuild. Or continue rebuilding.