Official 2020-21 Season Thread #1: To Beard or not To Beard?

[VDT]

The Sixers would likely have to add a first to make this deal happen. Blake expires after next season. Tobias has three more years after this on his deal. It’s not even close from a value standpoint. Frankly, if I didn’t like Blake, I’d still do this trade and just use him as a contract to expire or include in trades. You’re still getting out of Tobias’ crippling contract two years early.

You might have to add a pick because the Pistons are tanking and dont care what team they put on the floor so the duration of the contract is the only parameter they care about.

However, Blake is probably a worse player than Tobias nowadays, he makes the team even slower and is perennially injured. We would be wasting another 2 years doing nothing essentially.

We wouldn’t have to add a pick because the Pistons are tanking. We would be adding a pick because we are getting a significantly more valuable asset. Tobias is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Blake Griffin becomes an expiring contract at seasons end, which is a neutral to positive asset. For the Sixers it would be positive, as we will be looking to add players via trade.

The “Blake is probably a worse player than Tobias nowadays argument” isn’t well-thought out. You have two players who are comparable, however, contracts aside I prefer Tobias, yet Blake’s contractual situation would allow the Sixers to add much better fits a year from now.

You say we would be wasting two years. What are your expectations for Tobias over the next two years? Championship difference maker? If you think Tobias is that good, then we strongly differ on our opinion of Tobias Harris. I don’t think we are winning as currently constructed and getting out from Tobias on a straight up swap for Blake would be a godsend for this team.

Griffin is not more valuable in a vacuum. It may be for the Pistons because they dont care how bad they are, so the duration of the contract is the only thing that matters for them. The Sixers are trying to win so they care about how good the team is on the court.

Harris may be overpaid but Griifin is probably even more overpaid and there is a high likelyhood that he will be injured during the year. It is one thing to overpay by 15 mil (Harris) and a different thing to have 40 mil in dead weight doing nothing.

I dont think wasting 2 years with the hope of attracting a star free agent in 2022 a viable option for the Sixers. Embiid's peak is now and they need to take advantage of it while it lasts.

[76ciology]

Once you have Harden, Tobi won’t be a problem.

You wont have to rely for him to drop 25 a game to live up to his contract. He can play the current Khris Middleton role as a third option on offense. LAL had Kuzma as their third option last year. He could even be the best or one of the best third option on offense in the league.

And if you don’t like him, you can trade him for some role player who can 3&D. There are ALOT of teams who have cleared their cap for Giannis that they would likely just end up overpaying for Tobias caliber guys.

At this point, I dont see anyone that wont benefit with Harden. Even Ben. He wouldn’t be pressured to be better than Harden on every game, just because we didnt trade him for Harden.

Even our cap benefits from the trade. We wouldn’t have to pay Ben the supermax once his current contract is up.

Also more spacing for Biid. Biid can also rest to many more game for load management and not fear that we would be beaten by the Cavs if he dont suit up.

[Arsenal]

Someone made a good point in the Sixers subreddit. Need to stagger Tobi and Jo as much as possible. Tobi sucked w/Jo on the floor last year and was much better without him. Happened again w/him playing well vs. CLE.

Hopefully Doc sees this and tries it out. They should only play about 18-20 mins together (the minimum), and Tobi should have about 15+ mins without Jo in which time the offense should run through him.

[Skates]

Someone made a good point in the Sixers subreddit. Need to stagger Tobi and Jo as much as possible. Tobi sucked w/Jo on the floor last year and was much better without him. Happened again w/him playing well vs. CLE.

Hopefully Doc sees this and tries it out. They should only play about 18-20 mins together (the minimum), and Tobi should have about 15+ mins without Jo in which time the offense should run through him.

Shake, Curry, Green, Simmons, Embiid = Starting

Maxey, Howard, Thybulle/Furk/Scott, Tobias = Bench

When Embiid sits like he did the other day, I would keep Howard in his bench spot, the minutes and exposure are perfect for him and fill in with Bradley/Poirer/Harris/Scott depending on the matchup.

The more I look at the current team, other than the Matisse/Furk combo, there are very few cutters, other than the Howard interior lob threat. Rim runners and cutters are lacking for Simmons to carve other teams up with. Simmons is probably our best cutter/rim runner if used and convinced to play that way. We have guys who post, slashers with the ball and shooters, very lacking in guys that move towards the basket without the ball. Shake might do more of that paired with Simmons and vice versa.

[sixers hoops]

You might have to add a pick because the Pistons are tanking and dont care what team they put on the floor so the duration of the contract is the only parameter they care about.

However, Blake is probably a worse player than Tobias nowadays, he makes the team even slower and is perennially injured. We would be wasting another 2 years doing nothing essentially.

We wouldn’t have to add a pick because the Pistons are tanking. We would be adding a pick because we are getting a significantly more valuable asset. Tobias is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. Blake Griffin becomes an expiring contract at seasons end, which is a neutral to positive asset. For the Sixers it would be positive, as we will be looking to add players via trade.

The “Blake is probably a worse player than Tobias nowadays argument” isn’t well-thought out. You have two players who are comparable, however, contracts aside I prefer Tobias, yet Blake’s contractual situation would allow the Sixers to add much better fits a year from now.

You say we would be wasting two years. What are your expectations for Tobias over the next two years? Championship difference maker? If you think Tobias is that good, then we strongly differ on our opinion of Tobias Harris. I don’t think we are winning as currently constructed and getting out from Tobias on a straight up swap for Blake would be a godsend for this team.

Griffin is not more valuable in a vacuum. It may be for the Pistons because they dont care how bad they are, so the duration of the contract is the only thing that matters for them. The Sixers are trying to win so they care about how good the team is on the court.

Harris may be overpaid but Griifin is probably even more overpaid and there is a high likelyhood that he will be injured during the year. It is one thing to overpay by 15 mil (Harris) and a different thing to have 40 mil in dead weight doing nothing.

I dont think wasting 2 years with the hope of attracting a star free agent in 2022 a viable option for the Sixers. Embiid's peak is now and they need to take advantage of it while it lasts.

First, we weren’t discussing the trade in a vacuum. We are discussing making the trade in the NBA, in which Blake Griffin and his contract are significantly more valuable. Trades aren’t made “in vacuums.” They are made in real life, which is a place where Blake has way more value than Tobias. You can’t eliminate reality because your point isn’t sound. Player value is the crux of what we are discussing, but since Blake has so much more valuable, you try the “in a vacuum” angle in an attempt to change the discussion.

Next, you said Harris is overpaid but Blake is probably more overpaid. Tobias is generally recognized as the worst contract in the NBA. I assume here you are trying to remove the lengths of the contracts since that strongly favors Blake as well. Tobias has three years after this. Blake has one. It’s not even close. Tobias has a much worse contract, since Blake only has two years left.

Finally you go back to the point that trading Tobias for Blake would be throwing away the next two years, in an attempt to get a “star free agent.” Acquiring Blake wouldn’t be an attempt to chase a star free agent, but you clearly tried to frame it that way to imply trading Tobias for Blake would be part of an unrealistic free agent chase. However, I already said that my main objective would be to acquire more valuable assets because you can likely use the salary in a trade. Using expiring contracts in trades isn’t a wild goose chase. It’s fairly commonplace in the NBA.

Finally, your suggestion that trading Tobias Harris is giving up, tells me you value Tobias Harris much more than I do. What has Tobias Harris shown you in two years of playoff basketball for us that makes you think he is a difference maker? Is he a better fit than Blake? In my opinion, yes. Would trading Tobias for Blake mean we are giving up on the next two years because Tobias is such a far superior impact player that we would no longer be competitive? Lol I think you know the answer.

[Skates]

Seth Curry is a very different player than JJ WAS, but in his own way is much better than I expected and his shot will heat up as the team becomes better acquainted.

Danny Green looks more like future trade filler, okay D, shot is nothing to scare anyone. He looks close to used up, essentially a designated starter playing bench level minutes. Tasty expiring contract for a trade though.

[51X3RF4N]

So Tobias has played 2 not so great games, followed by 2 fairly consistently good games.

Not the types of games that make you think he's worth his contract, mind you.

But the type of games that make you think if he just does this on a consistent basis night in and night out, and stops trying to be something he isn't, then maybe just maybe he can fit in this lineup.

Alas, he will likely revert back to low IQ Tobias here soon.

But I wonder if he can string together 6 or 7 games in a row of this solid play, if some teams might be interested in a trade without us having to add as much additional assets. Especially considering every where he has played in his career he was actually decent, and near All Star level under Doc before.

And it wasn't until he was forced to play with Horford and Richardson under Brett that he took so many steps backwards.

Even when he was first traded here he played pretty decent compared to last season and in the bubble.

He looks leaner, and more confident, and is appearing to play rather decent defense, again compared to what we've seen in the past.

But, even at this point I'm not sure his skill set is needed more than a playmaker, shot creator from the perimeter is needed.

So maybe this play we've seen from him, coupled with the rise of Haliburton, opens up a window to get a Buddy trade done with Harris involved??

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[sixers hoops]

So Tobias has played 2 not so great games, followed by 2 fairly consistently good games.

Not the types of games that make you think he's worth his contract, mind you.

But the type of games that make you think if he just does this on a consistent basis night in and night out, and stops trying to be something he isn't, then maybe just maybe he can fit in this lineup.

Alas, he will likely revert back to low IQ Tobias here soon.

But I wonder if he can string together 6 or 7 games in a row of this solid play, if some teams might be interested in a trade without us having to add as much additional assets. Especially considering every where he has played in his career he was actually decent, and near All Star level under Doc before.

And it wasn't until he was forced to play with Horford and Richardson under Brett that he took so many steps backwards.

Even when he was first traded here he played pretty decent compared to last season and in the bubble.

He looks leaner, and more confident, and is appearing to play rather decent defense, again compared to what we've seen in the past.

But, even at this point I'm not sure his skill set is needed more than a playmaker, shot creator from the perimeter is needed.

So maybe this play we've seen from him, coupled with the rise of Haliburton, opens up a window to get a Buddy trade done with Harris involved??

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Two fairly consistently good games? When half your games are good and half your games are not good, that is what inconsistent is. He probably needs more than two good games to be referred to as consistent.

[sixers hoops]

Seth Curry is a very different player than JJ WAS, but in his own way is much better than I expected and his shot will heat up as the team becomes better acquainted.

Danny Green looks more like future trade filler, okay D, shot is nothing to scare anyone. He looks close to used up, essentially a designated starter playing bench level minutes. Tasty expiring contract for a trade though.

I expected more from Danny Green, but he was already slowing down last year so I’m not shocked. However, his shot should start to fall with more consistency. He likely will eventually be a nice trade filler, then maybe they move Shake into the starting lineup.

[the_process]

Someone made a good point in the Sixers subreddit. Need to stagger Tobi and Jo as much as possible. Tobi sucked w/Jo on the floor last year and was much better without him. Happened again w/him playing well vs. CLE.

Hopefully Doc sees this and tries it out. They should only play about 18-20 mins together (the minimum), and Tobi should have about 15+ mins without Jo in which time the offense should run through him.

Except, and this brings us back to why the deal was so awful in the first place... Tobias is not good enough to have the offense run through him. And he's a guy that needs to dribble to get in rhythm, he's not a natural catch and shoot player.

You attach a 1st and a 2nd and you trade him for almost anything (key word being almost, they shouldn't be taking back Andrew Wiggins for example), and this team will be better.

The other guy they really need to upgrade is Mike Scott. Dude has been basura for over a year now.

[51X3RF4N]

So Tobias has played 2 not so great games, followed by 2 fairly consistently good games.

Not the types of games that make you think he's worth his contract, mind you.

But the type of games that make you think if he just does this on a consistent basis night in and night out, and stops trying to be something he isn't, then maybe just maybe he can fit in this lineup.

Alas, he will likely revert back to low IQ Tobias here soon.

But I wonder if he can string together 6 or 7 games in a row of this solid play, if some teams might be interested in a trade without us having to add as much additional assets. Especially considering every where he has played in his career he was actually decent, and near All Star level under Doc before.

And it wasn't until he was forced to play with Horford and Richardson under Brett that he took so many steps backwards.

Even when he was first traded here he played pretty decent compared to last season and in the bubble.

He looks leaner, and more confident, and is appearing to play rather decent defense, again compared to what we've seen in the past.

But, even at this point I'm not sure his skill set is needed more than a playmaker, shot creator from the perimeter is needed.

So maybe this play we've seen from him, coupled with the rise of Haliburton, opens up a window to get a Buddy trade done with Harris involved??

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Two fairly consistently good games? When half your games are good and half your games are not good, that is what inconsistent is. He probably needs more than two good games to be referred to as consistent.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. In the 2 games that might be considered good, he played consistently well. I'm not saying he was consistent across all 4 games. I'm saying in those 2 good games, his play was consistent, as in he made similar plays, hit similar shots, played similarly above average defense, etc.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[youngcrev]

Someone made a good point in the Sixers subreddit. Need to stagger Tobi and Jo as much as possible. Tobi sucked w/Jo on the floor last year and was much better without him. Happened again w/him playing well vs. CLE.

Hopefully Doc sees this and tries it out. They should only play about 18-20 mins together (the minimum), and Tobi should have about 15+ mins without Jo in which time the offense should run through him.

Except, and this brings us back to why the deal was so awful in the first place... Tobias is not good enough to have the offense run through him. And he's a guy that needs to dribble to get in rhythm, he's not a natural catch and shoot player.

You attach a 1st and a 2nd and you trade him for almost anything (key word being almost, they shouldn't be taking back Andrew Wiggins for example), and this team will be better.

The other guy they really need to upgrade is Mike Scott. Dude has been basura for over a year now.

Yeah, he's a rhythm midrange jump shooter with tunnel vision.

I don't think he actively hurts the team while on the court though. He just doesn't fill the playmaking hole that his salary slot should be reserved for (plus, just isn't worth anywhere near that salary in the first place)

[Negrodamus]

Wait, which was Tobias's two games where he played consistently well? He was like 5-15 at the half last night. He was also very bad against the Cavs until it was out of hand.

[sixers hoops]

So Tobias has played 2 not so great games, followed by 2 fairly consistently good games.

Not the types of games that make you think he's worth his contract, mind you.

But the type of games that make you think if he just does this on a consistent basis night in and night out, and stops trying to be something he isn't, then maybe just maybe he can fit in this lineup.

Alas, he will likely revert back to low IQ Tobias here soon.

But I wonder if he can string together 6 or 7 games in a row of this solid play, if some teams might be interested in a trade without us having to add as much additional assets. Especially considering every where he has played in his career he was actually decent, and near All Star level under Doc before.

And it wasn't until he was forced to play with Horford and Richardson under Brett that he took so many steps backwards.

Even when he was first traded here he played pretty decent compared to last season and in the bubble.

He looks leaner, and more confident, and is appearing to play rather decent defense, again compared to what we've seen in the past.

But, even at this point I'm not sure his skill set is needed more than a playmaker, shot creator from the perimeter is needed.

So maybe this play we've seen from him, coupled with the rise of Haliburton, opens up a window to get a Buddy trade done with Harris involved??

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Two fairly consistently good games? When half your games are good and half your games are not good, that is what inconsistent is. He probably needs more than two good games to be referred to as consistent.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. In the 2 games that might be considered good, he played consistently well. I'm not saying he was consistent across all 4 games. I'm saying in those 2 good games, his play was consistent, as in he made similar plays, hit similar shots, played similarly above average defense, etc.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Makes more sense, because as a sixer he has been consistently mediocre. Even last night, a few times his lack of explosiveness got him killed going to the hoop. Nevertheless, with the correct style of play to benefit Embiid, he could be a useful piece, contract aside.

You said above that his skillset is more needed as a shooter to space the floor, and I think he could be a good 39% three pointing shooting stretch four, but he needs to embrace that role. When Embiid is on the court, or even Simmons, he would often be best utilized in that role. Instead, he prefers to hold the ball for 6 seconds, do his best James Harden impression, and ultimately turn what should have been an open three into a bad possession because he is unaware of his limitations.

A lot of the dumb play I blamed on Brett is still occurring nightly. It just has been masked by a schedule of Wiz, Knicks, cavs, and raps. The Raps are okay, but losing Kawhi, Gasol, and Ibaka has weakened the team that beat us two years ago. I’m not sure beating them last night convinced me of much.

[VDT]

First, we weren’t discussing the trade in a vacuum. We are discussing making the trade in the NBA, in which Blake Griffin and his contract are significantly more valuable. Trades aren’t made “in vacuums.” They are made in real life, which is a place where Blake has way more value than Tobias. You can’t eliminate reality because your point isn’t sound. Player value is the crux of what we are discussing, but since Blake has so much more valuable, you try the “in a vacuum” angle in an attempt to change the discussion.

My point was that players have different value for different teams. There is no universal NBA value. While both contracts are probably seen as negative from all teams, for the Pistons Griffin's contract might be more appealing because they dont care how good their team is, while the duration is still important because they could rent their cap space for assets in the future. On the other hand, the Sixers are trying to win now and i believe they prefer to have Harris due to him being a more useful player right now, being a better fit and being much less injury prone.

Next, you said Harris is overpaid but Blake is probably more overpaid. Tobias is generally recognized as the worst contract in the NBA. I assume here you are trying to remove the lengths of the contracts since that strongly favors Blake as well. Tobias has three years after this. Blake has one. It’s not even close. Tobias has a much worse contract, since Blake only has two years left.

Tobias is not the worst contract in the NBA. Blake is closer to that imo, at least for teams that try to win. Wall is likely even worse and then you have other terrible contracts like Klay, Westbrook etc. And it is not only the time left in the contract that matters. The Sixers are not tanking and as a result they cant just waste the next 2 years doing nothing. Players want to win and their prime is limited.

Finally you go back to the point that trading Tobias for Blake would be throwing away the next two years, in an attempt to get a “star free agent.” Acquiring Blake wouldn’t be an attempt to chase a star free agent, but you clearly tried to frame it that way to imply trading Tobias for Blake would be part of an unrealistic free agent chase. However, I already said that my main objective would be to acquire more valuable assets because you can likely use the salary in a trade. Using expiring contracts in trades isn’t a wild goose chase. It’s fairly commonplace in the NBA.

I am not really sure what you mean here. Griffin looks basically done as a player. How are you going to get assets? Do you want to use his salary and picks/assets to get better players? If so, you will have to give even more assets (which the Sixers dont have) because his contract is a negative and you are not going to get any difference maker for Griffin a whatever late picks the Sixers ca send.

Finally, your suggestion that trading Tobias Harris is giving up, tells me you value Tobias Harris much more than I do. What has Tobias Harris shown you in two years of playoff basketball for us that makes you think he is a difference maker? Is he a better fit than Blake? In my opinion, yes. Would trading Tobias for Blake mean we are giving up on the next two years because Tobias is such a far superior impact player that we would no longer be competitive? Lol I think you know the answer.

No i said that he is overpaid and often bad but Griffin right now looks even worse and there is a pretty high chance that he will not even be able to be on the court. He is also a worse fit imo. Essentially you are trading something that is bad for something that is pretty bad and potentially catastrophic for the next two years. Does this make sense for the Sixers situation and their players timelines?

I see Tobias as a sunk cost right now. He is not a bad fit, especially if his catch and shoot percentages improve, he is just overpaid. This is bad but possibly not insurmountable. More importantly, i dont think you can turn Tobias into something that will materially improve us. He isnt more valuable to other teams than he is for the Sixers and his value is negative right now. The only player, i assume, that can improve us in that sense is Simmons, because he is a bad fit here and he still has, i hope, significant value around the league.

[76ciology]

Tobias Harris 4 games playing bad
17.3ppg 8rpg 2.5apg 1.3spg 1.3bpg 45FG% 40 3pt% 90FT%

Just imagine how much better he is once he gets out of this slump.

[Negrodamus]

Tobias Harris 4 games playing bad
17.3ppg 8rpg 2.5apg 1.3spg 1.3bpg 45FG% 40 3pt% 90FT%

Just imagine how much better he is once he gets out of this slump.

Check the game threads, this gets talked about a lot. Those numbers get inflated during inconsequential parts of games, especially when losing to the Cavs.

[sixers hoops]

First, we weren’t discussing the trade in a vacuum. We are discussing making the trade in the NBA, in which Blake Griffin and his contract are significantly more valuable. Trades aren’t made “in vacuums.” They are made in real life, which is a place where Blake has way more value than Tobias. You can’t eliminate reality because your point isn’t sound. Player value is the crux of what we are discussing, but since Blake has so much more valuable, you try the “in a vacuum” angle in an attempt to change the discussion.

My point was that players have different value for different teams. There is no universal NBA value. While both contracts are probably seen as negative from all teams, for the Pistons Griffin's contract might be more appealing because they dont care how good their team is, while the duration is still important because they could rent their cap space for assets in the future. On the other hand, the Sixers are trying to win now and i believe they prefer to have Harris due to him being a more useful player right now, being a better fit and being much less injury prone.

Next, you said Harris is overpaid but Blake is probably more overpaid. Tobias is generally recognized as the worst contract in the NBA. I assume here you are trying to remove the lengths of the contracts since that strongly favors Blake as well. Tobias has three years after this. Blake has one. It’s not even close. Tobias has a much worse contract, since Blake only has two years left.

Tobias is not the worst contract in the NBA. Blake is closer to that imo, at least for teams that try to win. Wall is likely even worse and then you have other terrible contracts like Klay, Westbrook etc. And it is not only the time left in the contract that matters. The Sixers are not tanking and as a result they cant just waste the next 2 years doing nothing. Players want to win and their prime is limited.

Finally you go back to the point that trading Tobias for Blake would be throwing away the next two years, in an attempt to get a “star free agent.” Acquiring Blake wouldn’t be an attempt to chase a star free agent, but you clearly tried to frame it that way to imply trading Tobias for Blake would be part of an unrealistic free agent chase. However, I already said that my main objective would be to acquire more valuable assets because you can likely use the salary in a trade. Using expiring contracts in trades isn’t a wild goose chase. It’s fairly commonplace in the NBA.

I am not really sure what you mean here. Griffin looks basically done as a player. How are you going to get assets? Do you want to use his salary and picks/assets to get better players? If so, you will have to give even more assets (which the Sixers dont have) because his contract is a negative and you are not going to get any difference maker for Griffin a whatever late picks the Sixers ca send.

Finally, your suggestion that trading Tobias Harris is giving up, tells me you value Tobias Harris much more than I do. What has Tobias Harris shown you in two years of playoff basketball for us that makes you think he is a difference maker? Is he a better fit than Blake? In my opinion, yes. Would trading Tobias for Blake mean we are giving up on the next two years because Tobias is such a far superior impact player that we would no longer be competitive? Lol I think you know the answer.

No i said that he is overpaid and often bad but Griffin right now looks even worse and there is a pretty high chance that he will not even be able to be on the court. He is also a worse fit imo. Essentially you are trading something that is bad for something that is pretty bad and potentially catastrophic for the next two years. Does this make sense for the Sixers situation and their players timelines?

I see Tobias as a sunk cost right now. He is not a bad fit, especially if his catch and shoot percentages improve, he is just overpaid. This is bad but possibly not insurmountable. More importantly, i dont think you can turn Tobias into something that will materially improve us. He isnt more valuable to other teams than he is for the Sixers and his value is negative right now. The only player, i assume, that can improve us in that sense is Simmons, because he is a bad fit here and he still has, i hope, significant value around the league.

If you think the sixers would keep Tobias and his contact over Blake, I don’t think you really understand the NBA landscape and how to player valuation works, so I don’t think this discussion is going to go anywhere.

[76ciology]

Tobias Harris 4 games playing bad
17.3ppg 8rpg 2.5apg 1.3spg 1.3bpg 45FG% 40 3pt% 90FT%

Just imagine how much better he is once he gets out of this slump.

Check the game threads, this gets talked about a lot. Those numbers get inflated during inconsequential parts of games, especially when losing to the Cavs.

His scoring and his FG% is actually below his average compared to last year.

I think the real issue is..

After Tobias and Biid, you’re scorers are..

Ben 14ppg
Seth 14ppg
Shake 10ppg

Those 3 have got to step up if we’re looking to win the championship. If not, carry on.

[Arsenal]

Someone made a good point in the Sixers subreddit. Need to stagger Tobi and Jo as much as possible. Tobi sucked w/Jo on the floor last year and was much better without him. Happened again w/him playing well vs. CLE.

Hopefully Doc sees this and tries it out. They should only play about 18-20 mins together (the minimum), and Tobi should have about 15+ mins without Jo in which time the offense should run through him.

Except, and this brings us back to why the deal was so awful in the first place... Tobias is not good enough to have the offense run through him. And he's a guy that needs to dribble to get in rhythm, he's not a natural catch and shoot player.

You attach a 1st and a 2nd and you trade him for almost anything (key word being almost, they shouldn't be taking back Andrew Wiggins for example), and this team will be better.

The other guy they really need to upgrade is Mike Scott. Dude has been basura for over a year now.

Agree, but what's done is done. Need to make the best of it and try to pump Tobi's value. He has more games like last night and maybe we don't need to bleed assets to move him.