Will the real AL Cy young please stand up?

Post #21 » by **Bleeding Green** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:13 am

Santana faced the Indians more than any other team in baseball. They're the second-most patient team in baseball.

Weird things happen is small sample sizes. I don't know what it has to do with the Cy Young award.

mets87 · Post #22 » by **mets87** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:53 am

[quote="Jose7

oakfanintheeast · Post #23 » by **oakfanintheeast** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:01 am

Haren... who goes more than 95 percent of the season with a sub 3 ERA?

here are the runs the a's scored in haren's loses: 0,1,1,2,4,1,3.

mets87 · Post #24 » by **mets87** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:23 pm

haren is also a good candidate.

Jose7 · Post #25 » by **Jose7** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:21 pm

mets87 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

hypothetical situation:

a guy finishes the year with like a 2 ERA but his team scores an average of 1 run per game. his record's like 8-8 for the season. another guy gets 20 wins with an ERA of 4.50. who deserves the cy young? does that not show you how bad of a statistic wins are (for pitchers)?

well your hypothetical situation is way far fetched seeing as to how the lowest run support for any pitcher with 160+ ip this season is rich hill[with 8 wins] at 3.24. if a guy pitches to the tune of a 2 era, its pretty much guaranteed he's going to get more then 8 wins.

34Celtic · Post #26 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:29 pm

mets87 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

hypothetical situation:

a guy finishes the year with like a 2 ERA but his team scores an average of 1 run per game. his record's like 8-8 for the season. another guy gets 20 wins with an ERA of 4.50. who deserves the cy young? does that not show you how bad of a statistic wins are (for pitchers)?

If you ever pitched you would know that you throw differently in a game where your team scores 10 runs than in a game where your team scores 1. In a one run game everything is magnified, you nitpick a lot more.

Hypothetical Situation: if your team goes out there and gives you a ten run lead, the last thing your manager, coach wants you to do is walk people. You pitch to situations, try to get guys to put the ball in play and let your fielders do their job. you don't want to nitpick around the srike zone when you don't have to.

Of course I am giving one extreme and magnifying it largely, but this is one reason why you can't necessarily use ERA as your only basis for arguement. Its a number of things. If a guy lets up ten runs in one start (say, 1 IP) it will greatly magnify his ERA. Was he hurt? Just not have it?

What do you guys think of Wang? Obviously I'm a Yankee fan but I really don't think he should be voted higher than 3rd. He finished second last year and was hurt most of April, and some of July but he has done a helluva job this year. Again, I'd say third at the highest, and I think thats a stretch

mets87 · Post #27 » by **mets87** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:01 pm

how did you completely miss the point of my post? lmao. i'm arguing against using wins as a barometer of how good a pitcher is. you just wasted a minute of my life. thanks a lot.

34Celtic · Post #28 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:25 pm

Great people skills, I'm showing you an example of how wins is a good barometer of a pitcher consistently being better than his competition.

Post #29 » by **Bleeding Green** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:53 pm

*A pitcher's defense and offense being consistently better than his competition relative to the other team's offense and defense.

34Celtic · Post #30 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:27 pm

I'm just saying it shouldn't be discarded completely. All I'm saying.

Post #31 » by **Da Schwab** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:18 pm

My vote would go to CC, but I believe Wang needs a little more respect (18-6, 3.69 ERA).

He's been the only stopper for the Yanks all season, but he'll never win because his K total is low. All because he's the best ground ball pitcher in the AL.

bigboy1234 · Post #32 » by **bigboy1234** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:38 pm

All because he's the best ground ball pitcher in the AL.

LAWL.

Post #33 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:40 pm

That may not be that far from the truth. He has an absurdly low (the best?) HR/FB ratio: 5.9% Seriously, WTF?

bigboy1234 · Post #34 » by **bigboy1234** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:44 pm

Yeah, it's not far from the truth, but it's not true. And I think his crazy HR/FB is only bested by Escobar.

Carmona and Felix, and healthy and good Jake Westbrook have something to say about groundballs though. And even though he isn't as good as an overall pitcher, the Laffey as you know can get a couple grounballs.

Post #35 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:13 pm

Escobar's at 4.4% this season...damn.

It's not so much the generating of groundballs that, IMO, makes a great groundballer. It's what happens when he doesn't generate a groundball. Wang (and Escobar) rarely makes mistakes with his pitches.

Post #36 » by **B Mac** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:05 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Santana faced the Indians more than any other team in baseball. They're the second-most patient team in baseball.

Weird things happen is small sample sizes. I don't know what it has to do with the Cy Young award.

I believe the reason why Outlaw brought up Santana vs. Sabathia's head to head record is because someone mentioned Santana winning the Cy Young, and he was saying that you cant give the Cy Young to Santana when CC has just as good of stats and a better head to head record. It would make little sense.

As for who should win, obviously Im biased, but I wouldnt be shocked if someone from Boston or NY wins it. It wouldnt be the first time that someone from one of those teams won an award over someone that deserved it more. This stuff happens yearly.

At least it is a close race. It should come down to the last few starts for each of the top candidates.

Post #37 » by **GYBE** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:10 pm

B Mac wrote:you cant give the Cy Young to Santana when CC has just as good of stats and a better head to head record.

CC

3.15 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 185 K's

Johan

3.09 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 213 K's

I disagree!

HeyIt'sMe · Post #38 » by **HeyIt'sMe** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:32 pm

Horacio Ramirez.

No, seriously though, I'd give it to Sabathia. He's top 5 in the AL in ERA (4th), wins (3), WHIP (4th), IP (1st), strikeouts (4th), compete games (2nd), shutouts (1st), and SO to Walk ratio (1st).

He's an innings eating machine and a work horse who goes deep into every ball game and always leaves his team with a chance to win the game. That's the definition of the best pitcher in the league.

Post #39 » by **TMU** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:53 pm

Why's everyone dismissing Santana's chances this year?
He has the best ERA and the highest number of Ks so far in the season.

Santana FTW.

Post #40 » by **GYBE** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:06 am

It's boring if the same guy keeps winning?